Guest

'Flying Tail' question

Wed Mar 10, 1999 6:40 am

What do they mean when they say that the L-1011 is a 'Flying Tail' compare to the DC-10?

Thank you.
 
Guest

RE: 'Flying Tail' question

Wed Mar 10, 1999 7:28 am

It might be pointing out the fact that the L-1011 has more tail/rudder surface area than the DC-10
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: 'Flying Tail' question

Wed Mar 10, 1999 7:45 am

or maybe because the L1011 engine is almost "inside" the tail and the DC-10 engine is "under" the tail.
Just a question of design, being the L1011 tail more atractive.

 
Guest

RE: 'Flying Tail' question

Wed Mar 10, 1999 7:50 am

Actually, the DC-10 has it's engine in the tail (vertical stabilizer), while the L-1011 has it's engine in the tail cone. the round opening that you see on the L-1011 is nothing more than an airscoop to feed the engine. On the DC-10, however, the engine itself is seperated from the fuselage and mounted part way up the tail. I don't know what flying tail refers to, I just wanted to clear that up. BTW, the DC-10 looks better.
 
Guest

RE: 'Flying Tail' question

Wed Mar 10, 1999 7:59 am

A flying tail is when the whole horizontal tail moves, instead of only the elevators, as on the Piper Cherokee, and also the L-1011.
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

Michael

Wed Mar 10, 1999 8:35 am

Well....my english is not very good, so, sometimes I can't explain very well what I want. One picture is worth for one thousand words......here are two pictures.

Mirage, Faro, Portugal
 
Guest

RE: 'Flying Tail' question

Wed Mar 10, 1999 1:33 pm

What is the advantage of having the whole horizontal tail move than just the elevators?
 
Guest

RE: 'Flying Tail' question/Mirage

Wed Mar 10, 1999 2:20 pm

Actually the DC-10s engine is inside and behind the tail, the L1011's is below it
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

RE: 'Flying Tail' question

Wed Mar 10, 1999 2:23 pm

The L1011 does not have an all flying stabilator. It has a standard horizontal stabilizer and elevator.
 
Guest

RE:horizontal stabilizer

Wed Mar 10, 1999 2:27 pm

on both the L1011 and DC-10 both the elevators and horizontal stabilizers move.....they move independently or as a whole...the advantage is of course handling...on take off the whole piece moves to bring the plane to rotate, as the plane climbs out of the airport, there is a trim tab for the elevators to keep the aircraft in a climb so the pilots don't have to continue to hold the stick back
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

RE: RE:horizontal stabilizer

Wed Mar 10, 1999 3:54 pm

All commercial airliners are like this. The horizontal stabilizer is adjusted by hydraulic jacks. This jack adjusts the angle of attack of the horizontal stabilizer to trim the aircraft. The only way the horizontal stabilizer moves is through the use of the trim wheel. The control yoke has no effect on the position of the horizontal stab.This is called a variable incidence tailplane. The DC10, or L1011, have no trim tabs.
 
Guest

RE: RE:Jetpilot

Wed Mar 10, 1999 4:22 pm

interesting.....tell me more....the yoke doesn't control the Hor Stab? How is this not so? Don't they yank back on the yoke when they reach take off speed, and doesn't that move the hor stab into position to pull the rear down and bring the front up to rotate?
 
Guest

RE: "flying tail" question

Wed Mar 10, 1999 8:47 pm

A "flying tail" is more efficient, but is also more complex, especially in large aircraft. And it works as elevator and horizontal stabilizer simultaneously.
 
dl1011
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:42 am

RE: RE:Jetpilot

Wed Mar 10, 1999 8:53 pm

On the L1011, when you move the control column
forward or aft, hydraulic fluid is ported to 4
large actuators that move the horz stab. The
elevators are moved by cables attached to the
aft fuselage and elevator position is a function
of horz stab position. Pitch trim changes reposition the horz stab. On the MD11, fwd/aft
movement of the control column ports hydraulic
fluid to elevator actuators. Pitch trim changes
drive a hydraulic jackscrew that repositions
the horz stab. Hope this helps!
 
dash8
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:23 am

Re:Flying tails

Thu Mar 11, 1999 1:12 am

DL1011 is right your trim only the stabilizer and you fly with both. The elevators are attached to the stabilizer and move proportionally.
The reason this is done is to remove access drag in all phases of flight. What would you rather have in cruise, a large trim tab sticking out like a sore thumb into the airstream, or a flat "perfect" airfoil? The answer would be obvious.
And of course the faster a plane goes, the more critical drag becomes.
That's my side o' the coin.
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

RE: RE:Jetpilot

Fri Mar 12, 1999 8:21 am

I looked at the FOM for the L1011 today. It said no such thing about the horizontal stab moving in correlation with the elevator when the stick was moved. Is it model specific? Where did you get your info? I'm interested.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: RE:Jetpilot

Fri Mar 12, 1999 9:10 am

I posted the reasons for a flying tail up a couple of pages. There may be some variation for the specific model but the aerodynamic reasons are the same. To increase the CG range of the aircraft and to prevent a phenonom called "Mach Tuck"
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

RE: RE:Jetpilot

Fri Mar 12, 1999 11:36 am

I fully understand the reasons for an all flying stabilizer, and have for a long time. What I posted is that the L1011 doesn't have one.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

Sorry I was too lazy to update.

Fri Mar 12, 1999 11:44 am

Sorry about that Jetpilot. I was moving a little too fast and didn't change the title topic. That comment was directed at the general population out there.

Sorry about the confusion.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
dl1011
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:42 am

RE: Sorry I was too lazy to update.

Fri Mar 12, 1999 12:00 pm

On the L1011 when the control column is moved, the horz stab moves. Elevators are cable driven and position is determined by horz stab position only. Most other
airliners use a horz stab driven by a jackscrew and elevators driven by hydraulic
actuators.
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

RE: Sorry I was too lazy to update.

Fri Mar 12, 1999 12:03 pm

I asked you where you got this information. It conflicts with the locheed operating manual.
 
dl1011
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:42 am

RE: Sorry I was too lazy to update.

Fri Mar 12, 1999 12:31 pm

This info comes from the L1011 maintenance manual.
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

RE: Sorry I was too lazy to update.

Fri Mar 12, 1999 1:28 pm

Could you possibly scan it and send it to me? I would be interested to see it. What airlines manual is it?
 
dl1011
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:42 am

RE: Sorry I was too lazy to update.

Fri Mar 12, 1999 2:00 pm

How about a fax or by mail?

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