How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 2:43 am


>>>The pilots just cost it an extra $500 mil in labor, the mechanics will add another $150 million at minimum, flight attendants about $215 million, and the CSRs a whopping $290 million (these figures come from estimates from a source who works at UAL WHQ).

bye bye United.... thanks pilots for doing this and don't even TRY to get away saying the july/august fiasco wasn't organized.. the day the MEC agreed to the new contract, on time 0 went from a lousy 20% range to over 43% the next day.


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RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 2:48 am

Cash Reserves.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
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RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 2:49 am

They have the routes where people want to go. THEY WILL NOT GO OUT OF BUSINESS! Well, not anytime soon. They are still filling flights.

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RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:03 am

Its weird people if you believe it or not will pay to sit on an airplane and be driven somewhere for about $200 a head. Times this by about oh a couple thousand people and you have a substantial amount of money. United is the biggest and the best and this didn't just happen out of dumb luck it happened cause of their mgnt knows what they are doing.

RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:04 am

Short-term survival is not in question but cash reserves can not hold out forever especially if a recesion hits and UAL is stuck with the highest costs in the industry.

What about the trend this introduces in the industry with AA pilots rejecting the recent APA TA and Delta pilots and their "informational picketing", each demanding commensurate wages and a host of assorted employee groups behind them demanding their piece of the pie.

How are the airlines going to the handle flat profit growth brought about by skyrocketing fuel/labor costs even with steady load factors?

Already DAL and UAL stocks are trading at 52-week lows and analysts have cut earnings estimates on both carriers as RASM continues to decline after years of stellar growth.

I'm not suggesting the sky is falling...however this how the troubles at Eastern began not too many years ago.

RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:11 am

>>>mgnt knows what they are doing.<<<

If anything, the disaster of this summer showed that management does not know what its doing and the complete failure of ESOP vs traditional methods of airline managment to tackle labor issues.

RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:30 am

I suppose as long as you all can still bitch about the food nobody gives a damn.
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RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:54 am

ESOP began 5 years ago, with that all employees other than the f/a's took a pay cut, but in return they own the airline. The agreement is that you can not strike, unitl ESOP is over. Well it ended this year. The under paid pilots, went on a labor slow down. Now the mechanics are bitching too. They have every right to do so. Now is there chance to speak up before ESOP 2.
After ESOP ended, employee's got a much needed raise.

Go U N I T E D

RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 4:06 am

"Underpaid" pilots? How so?

Even under ESOP, pilots received a disproportionate share of the stock. Pilots never really took a pay cut since the company added extra lines for overtime to compensate for the wage cut which was really just an extra source of income for the pilots. Not to mention the pilot hiring freeze that was a stipulation of the contract. DId they really lose anything under ESOP 1?

Pilots broke the agreement (end of contract was not a surprise to them or ALPA) and refused to work overtime causing delays...

So why did the pilots receive a disproportionate raise compared to the other employee groups when they've been top dogs for so many years?

A raise is certainly justified for the other groups but the pilots are pushing up costs to an untenable level. Why is a raise justified?

ESOP...what a sham!

RE: Chieftain

Mon Sep 25, 2000 4:17 am

Just relax buddy. United's here for the long haul. UAL is the pillar of the commercial aviation industry in the United States, along with AMR and DAL. Earnings and profitability and stock prices may go down, but what you're suggesting is akin to General Motors or Procter & Gamble going out of business.


RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 4:21 am

Like I said, sky isn't falling but the implications of an extra $1.3 billion in employee costs is a staggering one, especially considering AA and DAL employees demanding the same for themselves.

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RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 4:37 am

All interesting and valid comments and opinions. But I think some people fail to realize that Eastern, Braniff, PAN AM and TWA were once GIANTS OF THE INDUSTRY. ALL, but TWA, (which is a shell of its' former self) ARE GONE NOW.

I don't mean to yell, but I think we need to keep things in perspective and not be so shortsighted when you say things like company "x" will be here forever. Years ago no one would have anticipated these changes in the industry that I just mentioned. No one knows what's in the future!

RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 6:16 am

Agreed. Your "wright." Airlines are quite different than manufacturing soaps and other high yield consumer products with the industrys best brands. UAL, presently, far from a strong brand.

I agree that pilots, not just at UAL, sometimes can get way over their heads. They're not hired to sit on boards, determine company startegy, importantly, destroy an airline's reputation in 2 months time. They're hired and brought on board to fly planes. Unfortunately its quite more complex than that. Thank you Ichan, Lorenzon. In years past airline chiefs in an effort to cut costs have cut pay scales for pilots. Of course pilots remember this and don;t want to get fuched again. This is fair. COuld it happen again? Possibly, so as airines make more moeny than ever efore time is ripe for labor to demand more. But in their shortsighted demands for more money they may put the airline back into the same situation as so many were when the economoy was in sh*t during the late 80s early 90s.

As for UA's long term survival. Your correct, they're a little shaky. However, they still have the country's best route network, and an airline business is a netork business. UA, watch yourself, win back biz travellers, keep fighting greedy labor, and give up on US (highest CASM in industry).

RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 6:22 am

At this rate, how long before UAL tops US for highest CASM honors? Who knows what AA and DAL pilots are going to receive now?

And its not just the airline industry where labor is winning what are definitely "Pyrric" (?sp) victories which will turn out to be a disaster for the individual employee in the long run.

Will it take another recession and bad job market for the unions to accept reasonable pay scales?

Should Goodwin have allowed a strike? Looking down the road...can you imagine what a combined UAL/US strike could do to the economy?

RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 7:24 am

"Pyrrhic" is the correct spelling.

As for the last question. It won't happen

RE: How Will UAL Survive

Mon Sep 25, 2000 7:26 am


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