Guest

Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 4:32 am

Let's hear all about this venerable POS....definitely the worst aircraft ever put into service. I wouldn't wish that plane on anybody.

Who has some Junkstream experiences to share?
 
Guest

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 4:38 am

I heard Chautaqua airlines gives free booze on their Junkstreams since they are so damn scary to fly in.
 
David L
Posts: 8552
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 4:39 am

We've had a few similar discussions about the SAAB 340. Is the Jetstream bad compared to other 19/29-seaters?
 
Guest

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 4:47 am

IMHO, the worst and ugliest 19 seater is the Swearingen Metro III but operationally it is far superior to the Junkstream.

The Junkstream has those horrible Garrett engines which are a maintenance nightmare. Not to mention no yaw damper, terrible cabin airconditioning system, and limited baggage space. I heard it has no cargo door so pax and bags can't be loaded at the same time!!! Handles like a nightmare in the air as well.

The Beechcraft 1900 and Saab 340's however have always been a pleasure to fly in and both have a ver modern/comfortable cabin without the operational issues of the J31/41.


However the J31 is available much cheaper.
 
crjmech
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2000 6:31 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 6:12 am

Oh boy, where to start? Since my experience is with the J32, I'll stick with it. The worst aspect would have to be the Garrett TPE-331-12 powerplants. They produce just enough power to get the plane airborne, so are run at nearly 100% all the time, shortening their life considerably. High air temps cause them to stop producing max power. They leak oil like a '70's vintage Harley and are generally hard to work on. Engine control rigging is particularly frustrating.
The airframe has it's own set of problems. Yes, there is no seperate door for loading baggage. The pax and their bags go through the same door, albeit seperately. The a/c packs don't put out enough air to cool the cabin during ground ops and climb-out, so a freon unit is fitted, just like your car. Unfortunately, the interior of the plane is a lot bigger than the inside of a car and the freon unit just can't handle it. Landing is more like controlled flight into terrain due to the flareless landing approach and plain straight-leg landing gear (no trailing-link). Of the 150+ flights I've made in J32s, I've had about ten really smooth landings. I made it a point to thank the crew after every one. Even in cruise flight the plane is taxing to fly, hence it's other nickname- the "wigglepig". No autopilot is fitted, so flying is hands-on the whole time.
These are the high (or low) points of the J32 experience. Luckily, these things are starting to slowly fade from passenger service. I, for one, am not sad to see them go.
Thou shalt mind thine altitude,lest the ground reach up and smite thee.
 
Guest

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 6:16 am

Thanks for relating your experience Crjmech.

I try to avoid the junkstream whenever possible...it makes me sick just thinking about how that thing handles in the air even on a clear day.

And I love getting to my destination knowing my baggage did not make it with me....

How old are is the J31/41??
 
crjmech
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2000 6:31 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 6:49 am

The original Handley-Page ancestor of the 31/32 was first flown in the late 60's, I believe. It was designed as a business/executive transport and was powered by Astazou turboprops (the same engine that powers many Alouette and Gazelle helicopters). The plane became a BAe product in the early 70's when they gobbled up Handley-Page. Most of the 32s I worked on were built between 1988 and 1990, but appeared older due to ten leg flight days with low-time pilots. I imagine the 41 dates from the 80's. I understand it's dismal sales were due to the bad reputation of the 31/32. The only carriers I know of using it in the U.S. are Trans States and Atlantic Coast Airlines.
Thou shalt mind thine altitude,lest the ground reach up and smite thee.
 
Guest

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 6:51 am

Thanks for the great info!!
 
desertjets
Posts: 7587
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 7:00 am

I believe the 41 was introduced in 94 or so. BAe also renamed the ATP the J61 or something in hopes that they could sell a family of Jetstreams.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 8:39 am

Does teh J41 have over head bins?
 
almbluzman
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 1999 3:05 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 9:08 am

hello iluv767 -
the j-31 does not have overhead bins. passenger carry-on's are loaded in a cargo pod on the belly of the aircraft.

almbluzman
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 10:01 am

What about the J41?
 
Lindy
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 10:42 pm

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 11:09 am

Ok here is mine story.
My first flight on Jetstream 41 was around 3 years ago DCA-JFK (only one way) going with TWA Express (Trans State Airlines). J41 does not have overhead bins, they are exactly like J31/32 but little bit longer. Flight was ok. Even we had Flight Attendant!!!
My second flight on Jetstream was with United Express (Atlantic Coast Airlines) on J32. It was hour and a half flight IAD-CLE. I had seat 2A so you can think I felt like I was flying first class hehehe (I had little more leg room then the others I am 6'4")
There was no space for any carry on laguage. Even I had to give them my laptop! So you can imagine how small this thing is. Best part of flying in those small things is when Pilots greet you onbord. Our pilot didnt use PA system, he just turned his head and said:
"Ladies and Gentelmen, welcome aboard our supersonic aircraft. We will fly on altitude 60.000 feet with speed three time faster then sound. Our scheduled arrival in Paris Charles De'Gaule Airport is 8:45am. Ladies and Gentelmen, I would like to appologize, I was reading manual from Concorde.We're not gonna fly 60.000 feet but 15.000, also we're not going to France. Instead we will make it to Cleveland. Please fasten your seatbelts and please read safety instructions located in your seatpocket. Thank you for flying United Express and have a wonderful flight."
Then with little delay we took off. Inflight I was trying to make myself little comfortable, I stretched little my leg and when I did it my leg was in the cockpit beside pilot chair hehe. Captain said "Please take your leg back to the main deck, no visits allowed in the cockpit" hehe almost everybody heard that and we were laughing so hard heheehe
One week later I was ready go back to DC area. When I got to the airport I saw on the monitor that my flight is late. From 1hr delay it was later 4hrs and then they cancelled my flight! So I went to Continental ticket counter and they accepted my ticket. I was so happy that I'm coming to DC not with United Express J32 but on Continental's DC-9-80.
SF-340 anytime over J32/41

Take care,
Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 12:55 pm

Dear Chieftain,

I could write about my own PIT-IAD hell ride on the Jetstream 31, in which I (at 5'11" and then 170 lb) had to hang in the aisle because that plane CANNOT seat three across, or because I got a headache from the vibration, or could take no photos because the windows aren't clear and have exhaust running by, or because it took hours for my head to return to normal afterwards.

No, I'll relate my parents' favorite Jetstream hell ride.

United bumped them from their LAX-ORD trip on a return to ROC, so they were dutifully and efficiently sent LAX-IAD, where they would connect to a Jetstream 31 for IAD-ROC.

Well, wouldn't you know at 10 pm, as they're already shoehorned into the Jetstream (a great plane for 70 year old people to have to contort around in) the pilot decides the weather's questionable. My parents were last on, so they get bumped so he can carry some extra fuel. They spent a lovely night at the Dulles Radisson and had to contort their way into another Jetstream at 6 am the next morning for the flight to ROC.

The Jetstream should be banned from service, sent to Marana, and then chopped up and made into pots and pans for Julia Child to use on her TV show. Then Atlantic Coast can show some consideration for its passengers and replace them with CRJ's and DRJ's.

Jim K.
Washington, DC
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 1:04 pm

One of my memories comes from CLT, where CCAir, now owned by Mesa Airlines, which is a USAirways Express operator. The J-31 had no lavatory, in its place was a closet for the pilots to stow their bags. On more than one occasion, a passenger relieved themselves on the bags during the flight do to a lack of facilities. The airline had decent passenger loads, and could have easily upgraded their equipment to at least a Brasilia or a J-41. Instead they picked up a lot of used J-32's from American Eagle. HOORAY Junkscream! Oh, and don't even get me started on the Irish Concorde - the Shorts 360!
 
stlbham
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 11:24 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 1:06 pm

I have also taken many flights on the J-41 in my case. The 30 seat plane like said above is almost the exact same thing as the j-31 just a little updated, and stretched. In the US the J-41 is required to have a flight attendant due to it having more than 19 seats. (I believe that is the cutoff) I believe that the j-41 also has a jaw damper one of the major improvements from the j-31. Most of my flights were about 2 or more (BHM-STL on trans states) this long flight can get quite long if you are over 6 feet tall like me, so I always chose to sit on the single seat side so i could stretch my feet out into the aisle. Also the this has to be one of the easiest planes to service for a flight attendant, at least on trans states flights out of STL, there was no snack or drink service what so ever. I also believe that the bathrooms on this planes were an atfter thought. Believe me you do not drink anything for a few hours before the flight because you didnt want to visit the restroom on this plane. Is there even one on the J-31?????? Isnt the copit on the J-41 an somewhat modern copit? I know there also an ex Trans States J-31 pilot in the forum maybe he could add to this discussion.

Regards

Brian
 
TWA717_200
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 1:38 pm

I flew on the type from MSN-STL and back several times (TSA). The planes were very new and to me, more comfortable than the ATR that also flew that route. 'Course, I'd take just about anything rather than the At Terrible Risk.

Then again, I'm only 5'8" so leg room isn't a major concern for me...
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 2:17 pm

I have flown on a Junkstream 32 twice. Both times about 6 years ago. The first time was on my flight from SAN-LAX. The pilots were very nice, and they kept the door open so I could watch.   This was back during the old West Air days, and the other flight was from Chico to SFO. I remeber looking out the window on that flight, at all of the exaust comming out of the engine.

Now I fly on the Brasilia a lot. Infact I wsa on two of them yesterday. The plane is somewhat quiet inside, compared to the Junkstream. It has overhead bins, a flight attendant, and a lavatory. I can stand up in the plane, and it fells somewhat roomy. I cant wait to fly on a CRJ. SkyWest is getting them on the UA Express system soon, and I'm hoping to fly on them once that happens.
 
Guest

RE: DCA-ROCguy

Mon Sep 25, 2000 6:33 pm

My Dad has been bumped off an A320 several times, and I have once for fuel purposes and weather, so does that make it a crappy plane? DC9s have exhaust coming out of them, so is that a crappy plane? Beech 1900Ds have no room whatsoever, so does that make it a crappy plane, too? What I'm getting at is that most of the things that you guys are describing are minor problems. I have gotten no service on short routes, and the Beeches don't have flight attendants or overhead bins, either, so stop complaining!
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

Junkstream 31/41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 9:16 pm

I've had to negotiate the rather short hop from MKE-MDW three times on Chicago "Express" (which, consequently now uses Saabs). This ATA connection flight has always been a nightmare. Other than the stainless-steel flask that rolled out of the cockpit as we climbed out of FL10, the ride is atrocious.

The lack of a yaw damper and rudimentary FCS make for a horrible ride, the usual 40-min hop in UA's 735s to ORD are reverted to a 90 min hell-ride. If you catch a strong tailwind, you feel as if you're flying sideways. I was glad to see Chicago Express junk the junkstream, but the Saab isn't much better.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: DCA-ROCguy

Mon Sep 25, 2000 10:11 pm

Dear LowFareAir,

Aw, do you have to begrudge a few air warriors our desire to bellyache about one of our favorite turboprops? ;+) No, being bumped for fuel purposes alone does not a crappy airplane make. But the not-wide-enough-for-three cabin, jarring vibration, ear splitting noise, and bad-for elderly-people's backs ceiling, none of which are problems with the A320 or DC-9, all make the Jetstream a plane that's ready for the chop shop.

Now, if I could, I need to get back in my garbage can to comb my green fur. ;+)

Sincerely,
Oscar
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Guest

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Mon Sep 25, 2000 10:42 pm

I heard the Junkstream has no autopilot and must be hand flown the entire time. Maybe J32Driver can share some of his experiences?
 
Guest

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Tue Sep 26, 2000 3:06 am

Never been on one, but I was on an AA Saab from LAS-LAX which completely sucked. Loud, bumpy, and slow. Bring on the RJ's!
 
Ilyushin96M
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Tue Sep 26, 2000 3:20 am

I've flown on J31s a few times; I actually rather enjoyed being on something so primitive for a change, kinda like flying in an old biplane might have been! But I agree that these planes are shoddy; I've never flown in anything that got thrown around in the air so much, they even blow side to side with the air currents. And they are so noisy, and cramped.

My grandmother had a terrible time boarding J31s; she is almost 86 years old, and hasn't flown in awhile, but when she did take J31s of American Eagle on ACT-DFW, she had to have TWO of the baggage handlers help her step up onto the airstairs, because they don't come all the way to the ground! And she had to be similarly "unloaded" at DFW.

The J31 does not compare to any other modern turboprop - Brasilia, SF340, etc. I hope not to have to fly on one again, but I WILL say it's better than the Fairchild Metro, aka San Antonio Sewer Tube.
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3672
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Tue Sep 26, 2000 3:22 am

hehehe, I'll just booked a Veracruz-Tuxtla Gutierréz (Mexico) two hour flight on a J31 for in 2 weeks. After reading this thread I'll REALLY look forward to this adventure !
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
Guest

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Tue Sep 26, 2000 5:16 am

Bad backs DCA-ROCguy? Like I said before, the Beech 1900, along with almost any other profiable 19 seater has most of the snags of the J-31
 
CactusA319
Posts: 2822
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 1:51 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Tue Sep 26, 2000 5:32 am

I have to agree with you guys. The J31 is a poorly built POS.

I've flown on them a few times in the last year on TSA between STL-MWA. BTW, TSA does not fly the J31 out of STL anymore, They sold them off to Corporate Airlines which now runs TWE J31 service from STL to smaller towns.

Anyway, STL-MWA is only a 35 min. hop, so it wasn't so bad. I flew on one of them in row 1, which is practically the jumpseat!   However these planes are noisy as hell, bumpy, they sway side to side with strong wind currents, and oh I almost tripped over the damn wingspar while boarding. They have no lav, no FA and no cargo hold, although the TWE ones have a pod under the belly for large bags. I didn't hate the flights, as I love flying and it's something different from the usual A320's and 737's that I fly on. But hey, if you don't like the Junkstream, try a C172!  

Later on....
 
crjmech
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2000 6:31 am

RE: Junkstream J31/J41

Tue Sep 26, 2000 8:36 pm

Well, after seeing everybody (myself included) trash the Jetstream, I've decided to come to it's aid and try to point out some of it's good points. One good thing is the balky prop sync that causes the noise and vibration of the engines to wander in frequency. This is a great sleep inducer, allowing slumber even in the kiddie furniture that passes for seats in most Jetstreams. Another good way to get some sleep and try to forget you're in a Jetstream is to sit in the emergency exit row on the right hand side of the cabin. Huge amount of legroom here, especially if there's no one sitting next to you.
Thou shalt mind thine altitude,lest the ground reach up and smite thee.

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