airNondo
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 2:09 pm

CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Sun Oct 01, 2000 7:55 am

Anyone confirm that CO is considering picking up the NRT service out of PDX? I heard the Port Authority was courting them. The fact that they are adding another PDX-EWR and could extend their AS and AW codeshares to act as feeders boads well for this allignment. This would also help CO's international credibility, right now they only offer NW codeshares to asia if you're west of houston.

However, I could also see NW or even TW considering picking up the PDX-NRT route, either could extend their current AS codeshare as well.
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Sun Oct 01, 2000 8:51 am

I don't see why PDX could not function as a mini-hub in the very strictest sense of the word if it had enough feed. I think that this would be a smart move for Continental, especially.

Aaron G.
 
Guest

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Sun Oct 01, 2000 8:53 am

Don't hold your breath. None of these carriers have the feeder routes to PDX to make a NRT flight profitable. It's apperant that the PDX traffic alone didn't produce the passenger loads for Delta or they would not pull off the routes. Delta also had feeder routes from the East and South to help fill the airplanes but from the decision unsuccessfully.
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Sun Oct 01, 2000 8:55 am

It'd be great if it were to happen, but I doubt it. If it didn't work for Delta, it probably won't work for anybody else.
 
alexinwa
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2000 2:08 pm

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:20 am

One thing that DL doesn't tell the pubic is a main reason they dropped PDX was the service the fact that as many as 20 people werent allowed into the US by the customs agents in Portland. Reasons that no other city would of denied them, Portland was. This is a major reason DL dropped this service. The Port was warned long ago and DL finally did it.
You mad Bro???
 
777guy
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Sun Oct 01, 2000 12:08 pm

This is in reply to post byAlexinwa,I have lived in Atlanta for many years and have watched Delta.They only do things based on the financial side of things.I seriously doubt they would leave PDX because of these 20 people.Bottom line,if it don't make money they don't fly.
 
airNondo
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 2:09 pm

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Sun Oct 01, 2000 2:55 pm

According to Dl, the flights were usually quite full (>75%). Rather the reason for dropping them was the $ paid per passenger wasn't high enough.
To explain the higher number of bargain shoppers, look at the routes feeding this service, JFK, LAX, ATL, SFO, YVR, SEA... All of which have multiple direct asian flights for the high paying business traveler to choose from, so naturally why would they choose to have a layover regardless of the airport.

Now, as stated by Delta, PDX local traffic was filling the NRT flight 30%-40% and much of these passengers pay premium fares for the direct flight or biz/first class. Now factor in a carrier willing to code share with AS, and you get feeder flights from places with no direct t-pacific service like Boise, Spokane, Oakland, Eugene, etc... With each of these feeders providing a few biz passangers each, plus travelers from the carriers own hubs (in the CO example you get another t-pac option out of IAH or EWR). I'd bet money the final result would be a plane full of profitable passengers.

One more note, Delta did state "the INS problems did factor into our decision". The INS @ PDX is now going through a major overhaul, with the director resigning. Lets hope the new team learns to loosen up.

~M2C
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

777Guy

Sun Oct 01, 2000 3:39 pm

The fact that "these twenty people" were turned away at PDX probably was a major reason behind DL's decision. PDX became knows as Deportland. Then, many Japanese corporate travel agents (where a lot of the real money is) advised clients and businessmen not to use PDX as their US gateway. That's where the trouble begins ...
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

Using What Slots?

Mon Oct 02, 2000 12:55 am

If DL gets its way, its taking its Japan slots with it away from PDX. How are CO and TW going to get the slots? NW probably could because I believe it has close to unlimited access to the prized Japanese market - UA, ANA and JAL are the only other passenger airlines in this position.
 
nwa man
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 1999 3:24 am

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Mon Oct 02, 2000 1:21 am

If NW gains another slot to Japan, it will not go to Portland, but probably to Memphis. Because of the new world runway opening, NW now can operate flights that they otherwise would have not been able to. Northwest also has the feeder traffic to make this flight work. I wouldn't be surprised that if NW gains the authority, this is the route that they will operate.

BTW, NW does not have unlimited route freedom to Japan from the United States. They must still gain government authority from the United States and Japan. They DO have unlimited routes out of Japan to Asia, which is why you have seen new routes from NW like KIX-KHH (last year) that probably would not have been operated before the agreement.

NWA Man
Create your own luck.
 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Mon Oct 02, 2000 1:26 am

DL is moving the NRT flight to JFK. They are also moving the NGO flight to LAX. About a year ago Delta was granted route rights for PDX-KIX, which were never used. In addition the PDX-SEL flight which DL discontinued a year ago is still up in the air. The Asian economy seems to have recovered. I wonder why DL is not flying these flights out of LAX, as there is enormous local feed, not to mention cargo traffic to these cities.
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

Unused DL Asian Routes

Mon Oct 02, 2000 2:17 am

DL has a ton of unused Asian routes (not sure if in all cases, they still have the rights:

PDX - Osaka, Japan
PDX - Fukuoka, Japan
PDX - Taipei, Taiwan - Bangkok, Thailand
LAX - Hong Kong
HNL - Tokyo, Japan

to name a few

plus

FRA - DEL (resuming next year)
PDX - NRT, NGO being moved as discussed previously
 
airNondo
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 2:09 pm

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Mon Oct 02, 2000 7:51 am

There are ways and means for PDX to recoupe asian slots, especially a single NRT slot for an airport that used to have 5+ daily asian flights. If an airline were to agree to take up this route and the port authority were to approve, a slot would be approved with little to no hassle.

With Intel, Nike, Columbia, Epson, etc. PDX has a number of asian biz travelers that will be stuck in layovers if a replacement carrier isn't found. With pressure from these VIPs (worthy or not) both sides of the Pacific would quickly agree to a slot, the only missing piece is the carrier.
 
777gk
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Mon Oct 02, 2000 10:08 am

Continental's growth over the next 5-10 years will be strictly out of the hubs. If anything, CO would operate a daily 767-200 to NRT. The traffic would have to be strictly O/D, but I could see it connecting with at least 1 flight from CLE, it is a more logical connection point than IAH or EWR. Still, it isn't gonna happen.
 
orlo3
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2000 4:04 am

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Tue Oct 03, 2000 1:47 am

Delta may have said that the INS problems didn't affect their decision much, but they also said they were pulling the flights because they were getting more tourists flying the route instead of higher paying business pax. Because of businesses in asia telling their employees to stop flying through portland on Delta due to the INS situation, It would stand to reason that the INS problems had more to do with Delta pulling out of PDX than they have led on.
 
darrell
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 1999 4:19 am

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Tue Oct 03, 2000 12:01 pm

The INS at "Deportland" was a major factor in Delta's decision. The INS problem is currently being resolved with the resignation of the INS Portland chief. I believe Delta's decision to pull out of PDX was irresponsible and short-sighted. With the asian market in recovery and the huge explosion of Japanese businesses in Portland, I can guarantee that someone will eagerly take over those abandoned routes out of PDX. By the way, Delta does not own the rights to use the gates at PDX if they leave. The International gates at PDX are owned and operated by the Port of Portland. The Port is currently actively seeking replacement carriers to use the International terminal. I havent heard anything about CO or NW, but I have heard rumors about Korean, Japan Airlines and China Airlines.
those who have no vices have very few virtues
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Tue Oct 03, 2000 12:22 pm

While we are on the subject, how did this many Md-11s get to Portland when the picture below was taken? I thought there were only 2 MD-11 flights from PDX to Asia. Could this possibly be related to the fact that the flights continue on to CVG and ATL, and some MD11s are just back from those cities while others have arrived from Asia? If so, then how does one explain the fifth MD-11? Could it be a delay? I was just confused by this picture:

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto


I hope PDX gets back a flight to Asia. I think a flight there with a combi aircraft should do the trick if the area does not have enough passenger base to fill an entire 747.

Aaron G.

 
darrell
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 1999 4:19 am

RE: Trvlr

Tue Oct 03, 2000 12:38 pm

PDX usually has 4 MD-11's in at one time (usually between 10:00 am and 2:00 pm), but its not uncommon to have 5 or even 6 in at the same time. every once in a while one of them will be an L-1011. (Luckily, the Hawaiian DC-10 that usually parks in the same place (departs at 9:10 am) was already gone...
those who have no vices have very few virtues
 
orlo3
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2000 4:04 am

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Tue Oct 03, 2000 12:39 pm

It was announced this weekend that Delta has approval to transfer the asian slots to other airports. Thus, PDX has lost the flight slots to Asia. Yes we did only have two flights to asia a day, but we saw four MD-11s at one time due to flights leaving and coming in from Asia at one time.
 
airNondo
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 2:09 pm

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Tue Oct 03, 2000 3:11 pm

Trvlr,

As stated above, PDX had 4-5 direct flights to Asia at its peak as Delta's 'International Gateway' to the Pacific. They were Tokyo, Nagoya, Soeul, Tapai, and I believe Bangkok (I believe these are correct, one of the other Oregonians on this board may be able to confirm/correct). Not to mention the only direct US to Fukuouko flight that was run for a brief time. This should explain the number of MD-11's.

Now its time to bring some 777's in  
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Tue Oct 03, 2000 11:29 pm

Not from OR, but DL at one point or another flew the following routes from PDX:

PDX - NRT
PDX - NGO
PDX - Fukuoka, Japan
PDX - SEL
PDX - TPE - BKK
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: CO,NW,TW To Asia @ PDX

Tue Oct 03, 2000 11:48 pm

Thanks for all the responses. My question is answered now.  

Aaron G.