LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:48 pm

As the previous one reached more than 250 posts, we are opening this new one

Link to the previous one:
Mexican Aviation Thread 8 (by LipeGIG Jun 6 2011 in Civil Aviation)


Regards and enjoy,
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Jonathanxxxx
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:48 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:10 pm

Sorry to be a bit off-topic but with no carriers on the FLL-MEX route does anybody think its likely we can see Volaris or another Mexican LCC tap into the route? NK serves the route from TLC but a MEX route should do well for an LCC. AM tried it but I think with their costs they might not have been able to make it work. What do you guys think?
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6175
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:25 pm

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 1):
NK serves the route from TLC but a MEX route should do well for an LCC.

Oh that is true. How long has that been going on? What are the fares like? I wonder if they are having healthy loads.

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 1):
AM tried it but I think with their costs they might not have been able to make it work.

I guess it was a combination of higher costs, the inherent low-yield nature of the route, and the fact that they have a very robust MEX-MIA operation (so there would naturally be some cross-cannibalization). It is a pity that they could not make it work though.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:47 pm

Can anyone provide some clarity as to why LAN didn't make a move into the Mexican market with the demise of MX? Also wasn't AA willing to invest in a post BK Mexicana? It just seems odd that the two didn't team up and form a joint venture subsidiary and keep MX going.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:52 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 3):
Can anyone provide some clarity as to why LAN didn't make a move into the Mexican market with the demise of MX? Also wasn't AA willing to invest in a post BK Mexicana? It just seems odd that the two didn't team up and form a joint venture subsidiary and keep MX going.

I would have thought that AA is hardly in a position to invest in anybody. As for LAN, quite sensibly they only want to invest when they can have control, Mexican law makes this impossible, there are plenty of other markets where LAN's investments are welcome so why bother with a market where they wouldn't be welcome. Also, perhaps they decided that MX was simply in too bad shape to be worth investing in?
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:24 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 3):
Can anyone provide some clarity as to why LAN didn't make a move into the Mexican market with the demise of MX?

LAN is growing in a sustainable fashion, (for example, just having entered the Colombian domestic market). LAN Airlines S.A. already has a Mexican cargo affiliate, Aerotransportes Mas de Carga, S.A. de C.V., of which LAN owns 39.5% and understands the Mexican market very well. Usually wherever LAN has cargo affiliates, passenger affiliates are launched or acquired in due course. Examples include, Línea Aérea Carguera de Colombia S.A. in Colombia and ABSA - Aerolinhas Brasileiras S.A. in Brazil.
 
Jonathanxxxx
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:48 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:25 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
Oh that is true. How long has that been going on? What are the fares like? I wonder if they are having healthy loads.

It's been going on for 3 years already. Another thing. Why did they chose TLC instead of MEX? Are the airport cost's that different?

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
I guess it was a combination of higher costs, the inherent low-yield nature of the route, and the fact that they have a very robust MEX-MIA operation (so there would naturally be some cross-cannibalization). It is a pity that they could not make it work though.

Definitely. Their MIA operation is very robust. With flights to MTY, CUN and MEX its definitely impressive. Although it rises a question. Why are there no Mexican LCC's in Florida at all?
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6175
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:17 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 3):
Can anyone provide some clarity as to why LAN didn't make a move into the Mexican market with the demise of MX? Also wasn't AA willing to invest in a post BK Mexicana? It just seems odd that the two didn't team up and form a joint venture subsidiary and keep MX going.

As kiwiandrew pointed Mexican passenger airlines can only have up to 25% of foreign investment. An exemption may be obtained so long as the additional investment is represented by non-voting shares. In this sense, control of a Mexican carrier is out of reach for foreign investors. This is clearly a deterrent for companies like LA, AF, SQ, etc.

I understand, but don't quote me on this, that AA closely examined the MX situation and whether it could support its Mexican partner via loans or something, but nothing came of it. I can only speculate that the decision to not make any loan or contribution stemmed from the fact that MX was in a really dire situation and AA did not believe it could ever recoup its investment/loan. Also, I think the MX situation deteriorated quite rapidly (or in better terms, the true graveness of the situation became known to everybody quite late), which also may have made it hard for many potential investors to react in a timely manner.

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 6):
Why did they chose TLC instead of MEX? Are the airport cost's that different?

I suppose TLC is substantially cheaper than MEX, which helps NK keep its costs down. With the massive exodus of flights of the likes of Volaris and Interjet from TLC to MEX, I am sure TLC officials were really eager to offer discounts and incentives to a carrier such as NK.

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 6):
Why are there no Mexican LCC's in Florida at all?

I don't know when exactly, but I would not rule Volaris out. It could be a matter of a couple of years or so. This is my personal opinion. Interjet does not seem to be too interested in U.S. destinations, but they would do well too I think.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2633
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:24 pm

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 6):
It's been going on for 3 years already. Another thing. Why did they chose TLC instead of MEX? Are the airport cost's that different?

Actually that route was just recently open by NK. It has not been operating for 3 years.
 
Jonathanxxxx
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:48 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:26 pm

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 8):
Actually that route was just recently open by NK. It has not been operating for 3 years

Really? I thought it was started in late 2008? Or was that when it was anounced?
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2633
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:38 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):
I don't know when exactly, but I would not rule Volaris out. It could be a matter of a couple of years or so. This is my personal opinion. Interjet does not seem to be too interested in U.S. destinations, but they would do well too I think.

I agree it may be a couple of years(two maybe) before Interjet, Viva or Volaris decide to open routes to Florida. Right now they are all busy trying to fill gaps left by Mexicana and trying to gain market share out of MEX.

Interjet is interested in the United States, they want all of MX's MEX-USA route authorities be given to them without having to request for them. They know when the routes go up for grabs they will not end up with all of them since they will be competing with Volaris, Viva and maybe Magni and Aeromar. I believe this is why Volaris asked for extra-bilaterals to some how prevent Interjet from taking all of the Mexico City- U.S. pie.
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2633
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:51 pm

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 9):
Really? I thought it was started in late 2008? Or was that when it was anounced?

Spirit Airlines submitted their application to start FLL-TLC on January 29, 2011 DOT-OST-2011-0011. You're probably thinking of Volaris. They applied to operate TLC-FLL March of 2009 and were granted the authority, but have not open the route.
 

[Edited 2011-07-24 15:40:24]
 
Jonathanxxxx
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:48 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:25 pm

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 11):
Spirit Airlines submitted their application to start FLL-TLC on January 29, 2011 DOT-OST-2011-0011. You're probably thinking of Volaris they applied to operate TLC-FLL March of 2009 and were granted the authority but have not open the route.

Oh sorry. Wow that was alot more close than I thought! Thanks!
 
homeland545
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:10 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:32 am

Interjet will be starting MTY - CUL and GDL - HMO starting on 15 Ago 3x weekly for both routes


Link: http://www.interjet.com.mx/Home.aspx?culture=es-MX (Spanish)
Link: http://www.interjet.com.mx/Home.aspx?culture=en-US (English)
AM2499, AM2082, LY2, AM58
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:03 am

AM might not launch PTY.

Due to bilateral with Panama, MX currently still hold route rights.

4O proposed starting August 1st whereas AM September 15th.

Chances are 4O will be the only Mexican carrier flying.

g77

[Edited 2011-07-25 01:06:12]
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:36 pm

Great news for Cancún. On 10/30/2011, LAN Perú will increase frequency on the LIM-CUN route from 5x weekly to a daily service!

LP588 LIM 12:35 CUN 16:55 (A319) Daily
LP589 CUN 17:55 LIM 00:05+1 (A319) Daily

LA will continue to operate the SCL-CUN-MIA route weekly:
LA582 SCL-CUN-MIA weekly (B763)
LA583 MIA-CUN-SCL weekly (B763)
 
avi8
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:02 pm

How long is the flight from CUN-LIM? About 6 hours?
avi8
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:17 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 16):
How long is the flight from CUN-LIM? About 6 hours?

LIM-CUN is 5 hours and 10 minutes, (CUN is the only North American destination where LAN operates the A-319).
LIM-PUJ also increases to a daily service utilizing the A-319 and is blocked at 4 hours and 55 minutes.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6175
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:47 pm

I am very surprised that so far there are no posts on this thread or even a new thread about the abrupt return of AM's MEX-BCN flight to MTY due to the fact that a woman allegedly blacklisted by the U.S. was on board and the U.S. exercised its sovereign right to disallow the aircraft to enter its airspace. Well, maybe there is a thread or a post on another thread somewhere, but I have not been able to find it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...irspace-blacklist-raquel-gutierrez

I do not have a clear opinion on this at this point in time... and I am not even sure I want to come up with one and, let alone, share it (other than how the episode must have been quite annoying for the other passengers). Nonetheless, I do recognize this is good material for a heated discussion.    So guys and girls, discuss. Lipe and the rest of the mods, if you think this belongs on a separate thread or on Non-Av, please do as you have to.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
homeland545
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:10 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:34 pm

Viaaerobus has announced they will start flights from Monterrey to Chicago (Midway) starting 14 Oct...it will be 2x weekly Mon and Fri

Link: http://www.vivaaerobus.com/

AM2499, AM2082, LY2, AM58
 
avi8
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:42 pm

On other news TACA brought their GUA-MEX flights from 14x weekly to 11x weekly, looks like 4O and AM are winning the battle.
avi8
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2633
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:59 pm

Quoting homeland545 (Reply 19):
Viaaerobus has announced they will start flights from Monterrey to Chicago (Midway) starting 14 Oct...it will be 2x weekly Mon and Fri

Great news!! Good to see Viva coming to MDW. Looks like Viva will be operating the flight during the day just like Mexicana and Aviacsa did as oppose to AM's current redeye flight.

Here the flights.
VB 1920 MTY 11:15am - 2:50pm MDW
VB 1921 MDW 3:50pm - 7:25pm MTY

Now to see what Volaris will do with the extra-bilateral that was granted to them on MTY-MDW.

[Edited 2011-07-26 14:01:10]
 
LH417AF025
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:56 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:14 pm

does anyone know the story behind Delta's flight 476 the 1h20am departure MEX-ATL? It is awesome to have this red-eye, but I see that it is very short lived??
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6175
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:55 pm

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 21):
Looks like Viva will be operating the flight during the day just like Mexicana and Aviacsa did as oppose to AM's current redeye flight.

AM flies 4x weekly MTY-ORD in the evening and 4x weekly ORD-MTY in a red-eye schedule, correct?

Quoting LH417AF025 (Reply 22):
does anyone know the story behind Delta's flight 476 the 1h20am departure MEX-ATL? It is awesome to have this red-eye, but I see that it is very short lived??

I found out about it only very recently. I was surprised too. With this, there are 35 weekly nonstop services between MEX and ATL all on DL metal. But you are right, later in the year, this flight is no more and the schedule goes back to 28 weekly flights. Maybe it is a summer season-only service to match supply to the added demand ex-MEX that is typical of the summer?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2633
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:13 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 23):
AM flies 4x weekly MTY-ORD in the evening and 4x weekly ORD-MTY in a red-eye schedule, correct?

That is correct, the flights operate Mondays, Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. AM is sending the E190 for MTY-ORD.

AM 670 MTY 10:00pm - 1:25am ORD
AM 671 ORD 2:25am - 6:00am MTY

The flight originates and ends at BJX, maybe one of the reasons AM has this as as a redeye.
 
LH417AF025
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:56 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:15 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 23):
I found out about it only very recently. I was surprised too. With this, there are 35 weekly nonstop services between MEX and ATL all on DL metal. But you are right, later in the year, this flight is no more and the schedule goes back to 28 weekly flights. Maybe it is a summer season-only service to match supply to the added demand ex-MEX that is typical of the summer?

i don't know, but it is fantastic! i hope they keep it year round.

is anyone able to look in one of the GDS's to find out the exact period of operation for this flight etc?
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6175
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:59 am

Quoting LH417AF025 (Reply 25):
i don't know, but it is fantastic! i hope they keep it year round.

is anyone able to look in one of the GDS's to find out the exact period of operation for this flight etc?

Well, I made a random search on SkyTeam's timetable for mid-October flights, and the flight was gone. Not a huge fan of red-eyes here, but I do acknowledge they can be quite good if you want to run an efficient work and personal schedule (at the expense of your physical well-being but oh well).
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2396
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:27 am

Quoting avi8 (Reply 20):
TACA brought their GUA-MEX flights from 14x weekly to 11x weekly, looks like 4O and AM are winning the battle.


Perhaps the excess of weekly flights in such route: TACA, AEROMEXICO and INTERJET,

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:07 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 27):
Perhaps the excess of weekly flights in such route: TACA, AEROMEXICO and INTERJET,

There's no excess. MX flew 3X DAILY + TA flights.

So finally after a year the capacity is getting covered.

g77
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
JJJM
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 7:33 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:13 am

AM starting flights to Caracas-Venezuela on October 10th.

AM694 MEX-CCS 00:40 06:15 B737 Daily
AM695 CCS-MEX 07:30 12:30 B737 Daily

Well this covers South America

Regards
JJJM
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:45 am

Quoting avi8 (Reply 20):
On other news TACA brought their GUA-MEX flights from 14x weekly to 11x weekly, looks like 4O and AM are winning the battle.

It's been reduced to 10X eff tomorrow.

4O keeps 13X and AM 14X.

Lets see who's next reducing. This route only supports 28X daily.

g77
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6175
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:48 pm

Quoting JJJM (Reply 29):
AM starting flights to Caracas-Venezuela on October 10th.

AM694 MEX-CCS 00:40 06:15 B737 Daily
AM695 CCS-MEX 07:30 12:30 B737 Daily

Awesome! Thanks for the information.  
Quoting JJJM (Reply 29):
Well this covers South America

Not quite! GIG is the missing piece of the puzzle! In my wish list, AM would launch GIG and reshuffle the frequencies and schedules to SCL in order to offer all-night flights on a daily schedule.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
avi8
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:50 pm

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 30):
It's been reduced to 10X eff tomorrow.

My guess is TACA will return to 7x weekly. 4O and AM will stay at double daily. Since AM is going in with the E190, I guess that'll give enough room for both Interjet and AM to operate twice daily. I reaaly do hope that out of the 3 airlines, TACA looses.
avi8
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:20 pm

Quoting JJJM (Reply 29):
Well this covers South America

And PTY!! AM is facing trouble with Mexican Interjet.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 31):
GIG is the missing piece of the puzzle! In my wish list, AM would launch GIG and reshuffle the frequencies and schedules to SCL in order to offer all-night flights on a daily schedule.

+1, we're just missing flights to GIG and a reschedule to SCL as 10 years ago, that would be fantastic!!!

g77
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6175
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:13 pm

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 33):
And PTY!! AM is facing trouble with Mexican Interjet.

Is the codeshare agreement with CM still in place?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
civilav
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:51 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:26 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 34):
Is the codeshare agreement with CM still in place?

I have just looked at my Sabre GDS display and it is still very much in place. Flights from Cancún and México City are being shown with both AM and CM flight numbers.

Hope this helps.

Greetings from Cancun.
 
AR385
Posts: 6735
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:17 am

AM has announced today a net profit of $45 million USD for the 2nd. quarter of this year, against a net loss of $4 million USD for the same period of last year. Revenues grew 43% against the first quarter due to increase in passenger traffic and cargo revenue.

More info here, in Spanish and by subscription only:

http://www.elnorte.com/negocios/articulo/638/1275621/

While the first quarter is always slow, I believe AM is showing interesting numbers. Something to point out is that they had the highest operating margin for the same period in 15 years.

I think the best lesson to learn here, since AM´s management is not particularly brilliant in my opinion, is that consolidation is a good thing and MX leaving the market was just a matter of time.
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2471
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:43 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 36):
I think the best lesson to learn here, since AM´s management is not particularly brilliant in my opinion, is that consolidation is a good thing and MX leaving the market was just a matter of time.

It is quite clear that there was too much capacity in the Mexican domestic skies. Interestingly enough due to the emergency restructuring efforts led by AM's management when faced with the 2009 influenza crisis the group was forced to internally to get its act straight by becoming efficient and was thus reporting a slight operating profit by the 2nd quarter of 2010. Group AM was profitable by the time Mexicana de Aviacion collapsed (3rd quarter) and turned its first profit in many many years for fiscal year 2010.

http://www.aeromexico.com/mx/descarg...pdf/2010_financial_information.pdf

It is expected that 2011 will be the 2nd year in a row that grupo AeroMexico turns a healthy profit.

Interjet is profitable, but I don't know for how long.

Volaris has yet to turn a profit and is low in cash.

Vivaaerobus is a joke.
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:57 am

Why is Viva a joke LatinPlane?

Many MX routes haven´t yet been covered with MX aggressiveness and AM will start struggling once a new Mexican carrier from MEX starts flights to SFO, DEN, LAX, LAS, MIA, ORD, JFK, YUL, YYZ, YYC, YVR and adds more flights within Mexico and gets stronger. I´m talking about the end of 2013 when Interjet reaches 54 birds, Volaris 52, VivaAerobús 30 and more seats from the rest.

I strongly agree Volaris after Azcárraga and Slim that sold it´s shares is a less aggressive airline. I share that theory of having low cash or getting into trouble. With DGAC numbers, they´re doing more flights, have more routes and hours flown vs Y4 and flying less passengers. It´s clear who will be battling having 1 and 2 position but Volaris sure there´s uncertainty around. I just see Y4 turning into that JR, 6A, GD as the 3rd and with low growing chances.

g77
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2471
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:19 am

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 38):
Why is Viva a joke LatinPlane?

Because their reputation is not the greatest with the Mexican public. While they offer unbeatable fares by being the RYANAIR of Mexico, their on-time performance, reliability, as well as their customer service is just bad.

The opportunity that presented with Mexicana's demise is driving the airline to capture market as fast as possible by growing aggressively but without necessarily having the proper infrastructure nor the right experienced staff in place to sustain the product. But, let's not forget that the airline was already acting this way providing unreliable service even before Mexicana left the market. Now that they pursue growing into the American market they should start cleaning up their act. If they think they can treat the American clientele the same way the treat the Mexican clientele then they are in for a rude awakening.

http://impreso.milenio.com/node/8967685

They claim they are reporting profitability. Is this verifiable?

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 38):
Many MX routes haven´t yet been covered with MX aggressiveness and AM will start struggling once a new Mexican carrier from MEX starts flights to SFO, DEN, LAX, LAS, MIA, ORD, JFK, YUL, YYZ, YYC, YVR and adds more flights within Mexico and gets stronger. I´m talking about the end of 2013 when Interjet reaches 54 birds, Volaris 52, VivaAerobús 30 and more seats from the rest.

AM is slowly but surely expanding into Mexicana's old turf. Yes, a few dots are missing, but they are growing conservatively and most importantly PROFITABLY. Thing is that everything is way too unpredictable at this time to properly predict what will happen in the next two years. Even Skyteam partners DL/AF-KLM are teaming up and cutting capacity across the pond. Despite that my point of view is that the best strategy for AM is to grow more aggressively internationally and leave more of the domestic market to AM Connect as soon as they trade in many of those Embraer -145s for more of the -190s which are better suited for the airline's needs. And when are those orders for five more 787s and at least two 773s going to happen?  


And here is the official 2nd quarter profit report.

http://www.aeromexico.com/mx/descarga/pdf/GAM_2Q_ESP.pdf

Anyone care to convert the numbers to U.S. figures and dollars?  
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
XA744
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:40 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:51 pm

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 39):
Because their reputation is not the greatest with the Mexican public. While they offer unbeatable fares by being the RYANAIR of Mexico, their on-time performance, reliability, as well as their customer service is just bad.

Well, maybe I was lucky ( one in a million ? ), but I flew this fellas last May, for the very first time in my life and just for the fun of it. All four sectors that I did with Viva ( MID-MEX-PVR-MEX-MID ), were immaculate in on time performance and quality of on board service. Umm, a mere coincidence ? Well, that I don´t know. You tell me.

What is making me regard Viva real high, is the fact that on all the four sectors that I flew aboard their sturdy 733s, the pilots were in constant and extremely courteous contact with us passengers, at take off and landing, and during cruising altitude, of course. Cabin crew performance was outstanding in regards to being extremely professional and efficient in enforcing security guidelines. Hoinestly fellas, this is something I had not seen, already for sometime, in any Mexican carrier, small or big. If this practice is standard with my friends based in Monterrey, well, the airline deserves high marks and nothing else. I would happily fly them again any day.

Best regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2471
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:02 pm

XA744:

Perhaps you are right and one should not be too quick to criticize them. They do attract more negative attention than the normal. They are the Ryanair of Mexico and rightfully so given that Ryanair Inc. has a stake in them. And just like the real Ryanair, you either love them or hate them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E5T_lfhqcw
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
davidca
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:15 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:31 pm

A couple of our Mexican friends here have written some pretty negative stuff about Volaris. I have never flown them, but for some reason or other have had the idea that they're a very solid outfit. Their marketing is slick, the website is snazzy, and they come across as a company that knows what it is doing. Nice fleet, and from what I have seen where I have crossed paths with them at our own layover hotels, nice people. Is Volaris' reputation in Mexico in fact not good?

Interjet I have flown, and I was impressed with them. How do Interjet and Volaris compare?
 
homeland545
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:10 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:08 pm

My experience with Viva has been great, I've flown them mostly on MTY - CUL and so far they have on time and very friendly, I remember that the check in guy try his best to speak English but I told him I know Spanish but he wanted to learn English and it has been the say with volaris and AeroMexico...I've been trying to fly interjet since I've heard of the good service
AM2499, AM2082, LY2, AM58
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:38 pm

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 39):
their on-time performance, reliability, as well as their customer service is just bad.

Have you flown them once or recently?

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 39):
They claim they are reporting profitability. Is this verifiable?

No, it's not.

Quoting XA744 (Reply 40):
Well, maybe I was lucky ( one in a million ? ), but I flew this fellas last May, for the very first time in my life and just for the fun of it. All four sectors that I did with Viva ( MID-MEX-PVR-MEX-MID ), were immaculate in on time performance and quality of on board service. Umm, a mere coincidence ? Well, that I don´t know. You tell me.

Well, I might have been lucky too, but last year when I flew MEX-PVR-MEX I was absolutely pleased. I flew with 3 more friends and we took different flights in two different days, our return flight was the same flight. We all had a great experience, it was our first time flying on VB and we all our aviation geeks. We gave Viva a 10. I paid around 890 pesos r/t with taxes to PVR. I also bought stuff on board from their Viva Menu which they change every month, every month they offer different stuff. I remember paying for my drink and Sandwich around 90 pesos. So, for the price and for taking me from point A to point B, it was excellent.

Quoting XA744 (Reply 40):
What is making me regard Viva real high, is the fact that on all the four sectors that I flew aboard their sturdy 733s, the pilots were in constant and extremely courteous contact with us passengers, at take off and landing, and during cruising altitude, of course. Cabin crew performance was outstanding in regards to being extremely professional and efficient in enforcing security guidelines. Hoinestly fellas, this is something I had not seen, already for sometime, in any Mexican carrier, small or big. If this practice is standard with my friends based in Monterrey, well, the airline deserves high marks and nothing else. I would happily fly them again any day.

Almost all pilots are ex. JR and ex. 6A and recently ex. QA. There's a lot of experience everywhere you see it.

Quoting DavidCA (Reply 42):
A couple of our Mexican friends here have written some pretty negative stuff about Volaris. I have never flown them, but for some reason or other have had the idea that they're a very solid outfit. Their marketing is slick, the website is snazzy, and they come across as a company that knows what it is doing.

Volaris started pretty well. They have a great economical back up with Azcarraga and Carlos Slim but this two guys left and it loose a little power. Azcarraga has Mexico's biggest TV broadcast and Slim is the richest man on earth.

My family business is a Travel Agency. You can NEVER, N E V E R, buy on Volaris site, is slow and it freezes whereas Interjet is the most friendly site to buy.

Quoting DavidCA (Reply 42):
Is Volaris' reputation in Mexico in fact not good?

It's good but when they started it was outstanding.

Quoting DavidCA (Reply 42):
Interjet I have flown, and I was impressed with them. How do Interjet and Volaris compare?

If I had to buy my tickets and pay for them, I would go with the lowest price, if the company would paid for my ticket, I would take Interjet. Their seats for me make a vast difference. Interjet has a 150 seat config vs 168 seats with Volaris or 144 in the Airbus 319.

g77
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6175
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:12 pm

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 39):
They claim they are reporting profitability. Is this verifiable?

I really doubt it. Viva is a privately held company and therefore is not required to disclose its results to the general public.

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 39):
AM is slowly but surely expanding into Mexicana's old turf. Yes, a few dots are missing, but they are growing conservatively and most importantly PROFITABLY.

  

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 39):
my point of view is that the best strategy for AM is to grow more aggressively internationally and leave more of the domestic market to AM Connect as soon as they trade in many of those Embraer -145s for more of the -190s which are better suited for the airline's needs.

I agree with you. International flights is where the $ is. I think some trunk domestic routes should still be flown with 737s (MEX-TIJ for example), and some others need to be operated with a combo of E-190s and 737-700s and -800s, such as MEX-MTY/GDL/CUN depending of day of the week, time of day, etc. I think some ERJ-145s could remain in the fleet, in order to allow AM to serve some markets like Villahermosa, Cd. del Carmen, Minatitlán, Poza Rica and Reynosa. Or to fly from CUN to CZM, CTM and Belize, GDL-PVR, etc. You get my point. Now, how do you guys feel about E-170s? Would those fit AM too?

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 39):
when are those orders for five more 787s and at least two 773s going to happen?

Ugh, I know man. I really hope we'll see more widebodies soon, but according to our friend Ghost only one more second-hand 767ER (300?) is coming soon "maybe".

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 39):
Anyone care to convert the numbers to U.S. figures and dollars?

1 / 11.60ish   

Quoting DavidCA (Reply 42):
Interjet I have flown, and I was impressed with them. How do Interjet and Volaris compare?

Hmmm, I flew Interjet and Volaris only once each. Interjet TLC-MTY a few days after their launch of operations and Volaris MID-TLC back in 2009 or 2010 (I forget). I did not see much difference. Interjet's legroom may have been a bit more generous, but that does not mean Volaris felt cramped or anything. In terms of drinks and snacks, both were the same. IFE-wise, I cannot remember if Interjet had anything going on, and Volaris had some Televisa-produced shows that weren't exactly interesting. Lol. The Interjet flight was delayed, but that was because they only had a handful of planes and TLC was in diapers as a true commercial airport, so things like that were kind of expected. I get the feeling these days that Interjet is perceived as a tad "nicer" due to their comfy and crisp looking leather seats with formidable pitch, but I cannot really say more in an informed manner.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
adriaticus
Posts: 989
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:29 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:48 am

Hello! Long time no see!

I missed most of the last thread, so don't know if someone has discussed this. It seems PVR will be receiving a weekly B767 flight from AMS by TUI, as well as a daily Virgin flight from SFO, before the end of the year? Is this verifiable?

The note fails to meantion if these will be seasonal or year-round, but a daily flight (in the case of PVR-SFO) seems like a large-enough investment to make it seasonal.

The link is: http://www.t21.com.mx/news/news_display.php?story_id=14660

Cheers!
__Ad.

[Edited 2011-07-28 19:50:41]
A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
 
homeland545
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:10 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:31 am

I don't think it has been posted, I'm sorry if it has but volaris started to fly LAS - MEX (28 July)
LInks: http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/jul/28/volar/

http://www.volaris.mx/Inicio.aspx?culture=es-MX
AM2499, AM2082, LY2, AM58
 
RAGAZZO777
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:33 am

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:23 am

Starting in November LAN Peru will offer DAILY flights to/from MEX, currently they offer six flights per week on the route.
Also, the departure time on the MEX-LIM leg will be readjusted. Effective October 30, LP Flight 629 (MEX-LIM) will depart at 4:35 PM.

TACA Peru will offer again 6 weekly flights on the LIM-MEX-LIM route effective December 11.


Regards,
JESÚS, TE AMO !!
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexican Aviation Thread 9

Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:32 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 45):
Ugh, I know man. I really hope we'll see more widebodies soon, but according to our friend Ghost only one more second-hand 767ER (300?) is coming soon "maybe".

Yes.

English report:

http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...1-as-mexican-market-recovers/page1

They're looking for it... my guess is that it will be a -300 since it will be hard to get a good shape -200:

On the widebody side, Aeromexico has added two B767s since Mexicana’s collapse and is planning to add one more B767 in 2H2011, giving it a widebody fleet of eight B767s and four B777s. The additional B767 will be used as a spare to improve the reliability of Aeromexico's long-haul operation.

AM by early October must be flying 8X 767 and 4X 777.

OTOH, rumors around have spread that AM might surprise us with 1 B777-300ER and 1 B777-200ER soon. By soon I'm talking about within the next 8 months.

I really hope its true and finally they're planning big and thinking right. 6x777 and 8x767 would be ok but still not enough. The 773 would be for MAD and GRU, the 772 for CDG. With 2 more 777s we could also see the 3rd frequency to PVG. With more 777 it would free the 767s and BCN, SCL could see an increase. New routes could be even announced, GIG or LHR.

AM needs to move FASTER.

Quoting adriaticus (Reply 46):
I missed most of the last thread, so don't know if someone has discussed this. It seems PVR will be receiving a weekly B767 flight from AMS by TUI, as well as a daily Virgin flight from SFO, before the end of the year? Is this verifiable?

Yes, October 30th is the possible date of this new charter flight AMS-PVR.

VX will start year-round service from SFO-PVR flying I belive 5X weekly.

g77
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 717atOGG, A330freak, airlinebuilder, Baidu [Spider], beachba, dabpit, dibble777, diverdave, dmorbust, exunited, flyingclrs727, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], hoffkeit, JetBuddy, Josh32121, lavalampluva, LHRFlyer, Majestic-12 [Bot], mats01776, MaxiAir, NASBWI, RadHokie, ryanrap1, SCQ83, seahawk, seanpmassey, starrion, thebry, TheF15Ace, TWA772LR and 361 guests