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New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:51 am

Welcome to the 100th New Zealand Aviation Thread. In thread #99 New Zealand Aviation Thread #99 (by 777ER Jul 25 2011 in Civil Aviation) we learnt and discussed:

- WLGs Steve Fitzgerald moves on from WLG
- NZs 1900D fleet replacement possibilities
- More issues with NZs international connection fares on UA, AC etc V's purchasing direct from the connecting airline
- Brief RWC extra flights
- VS and NZ expand codeshare deals
- Ex ZK registered Bae146s
- NZs HKG-LHR route and the B77W fleet
- Is HKG-LHR about to be axed?


A bit of a blast from the past, here is the first original New Zealand Aviation Thread I posted from 2007! New Zealand Aviation Thread (by 777ER Feb 23 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Anyone willing to bet how long it will take to reach 200 threads?

   Lets taxi to the runway and blast into the New Zealand skies, pop the    as we celebrate the 100th    thread
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cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:51 am

Very glad to see #100 of this thread...the Aussies are lagging way behind!

Quoting qf002 (Reply 203):
Or what about changing departures all the way through (not sure about slots or other restrictions due to the business of LHR in the mornings):

Depart AKL at aprox 3:15pm
Arrive HKG at aprox 10:45pm

Depart HKG at aprox 12:30am
Arrive LHR at aprox 6am

A 10:45pm arrival at HKG means NZ will lose all passengers connecting to mainland China flights, and the HKG bound passengers would not appreciate missing the last bus to town (around midnight) if there is a slight delay.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:54 am

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
A bit of a blast from the past, here is the first original New Zealand Aviation Thread I posted from 2007! New Zealand Aviation Thread (by 777ER Feb 23 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Wow, 100. It seems like yesterday when that first thread was started. Thanks to everyone who has participated over the years for the good times, the ugly confrontations and strange happenings! (coincidentally my 4444th post..)

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Brief RWC extra flights

I still wonder if there's more to come.. Fingers crossed for some European carriers.

[Edited 2011-08-15 00:55:49]
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:05 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):
Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Brief RWC extra flights

I still wonder if there's more to come.. Fingers crossed for some European carriers.

I believe there will be more flights. We've only heard from NZ, DJ and QF basically so IMHO there will be extra Tasman flights and long haul
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:08 am

ZQN and DUD are closed, CHC is on and off, WLG is now closed due to snow.

Wellington Airport has temporarily put all its flight on hold while the runway was cleared of excess ice and snow. A spokeswoman said the conditions would be constantly evaluated throughout the night.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5443...Major-weather-disruption-around-NZ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:26 am

Oh come on couldn't we have had a better title for this thread like Super Awesome 100th thread special?

Quoting cchan (Reply 1):
Very glad to see #100 of this thread...the Aussies are lagging way behind!

Yeah! Lets see how long it take them to reach #100, anyone wants a guess?

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):
It seems like yesterday when that first thread was started.

Actually it was 4 years ago on the 23rd of Feb 2007 but... Nice try! 
Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
- Brief RWC extra flights

Hope we see more airlines like SAA, BA, AF etc. But sadly it will probably be just the boring NZ tail that dominates all Kiwi airports because they kicked out so many tails...  

Shall we add some excitement to this thread? like not talking about boring seats and NZ cutting 1 service to a place etc.?
I'll start the conversation-

Which options could NZ take up for future expansion and where should they be deployed?
What tails could we see in the future at WLG, AKL and CHC?
Where's NZ1? (I Think I should probably leave that one out as he might be sick of us  )
Which future aircraft could we see to replace the ATR?

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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:48 am

Hearing rumours that there will likely be some extra charter flights. On the other hand, we're also hearing that some Asian carriers are planning to reduce flights into NZ during the RWC because non-RWC travelers -- people who were just coming over for the hell of it or for business -- can't find reasonably priced hotels, making them either cancel trips or not book trips. Will update when I have a better idea of any revised schedules.

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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:07 am

Quoting texan (Reply 6):
On the other hand, we're also hearing that some Asian carriers are planning to reduce flights into NZ during the RWC because non-RWC travelers

That's a bit of a surprise but I guess the home clientale for airlines like MH, TG, SQ & CI aren't exactly known as huge rugby fans. They should be able to fill the planes up with connectors from the UK & France though?

BTW congrats on the big 100!  

Regards,
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:26 am

Quoting aflyingkiwi (Reply 7):
That's a bit of a surprise but I guess the home clientale for airlines like MH, TG, SQ & CI aren't exactly known as huge rugby fans. They should be able to fill the planes up with connectors from the UK & France though?

I would've thought the same thing.

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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:02 am

Quoting aflyingkiwi (Reply 7):
They should be able to fill the planes up with connectors from the UK & France though?

Nah - Nobody is coming from that part of the world except a hardcore supporter. And the prices people are charging to do anything here are extortionate even by UK standards - convert even a pool play ticket to pounds and you're looking at major Premiership football game prices for seats where you can actually see the field properly.

And it will put a lot of Poms and Europeans off who just want to travel for a month without being charged $300 a night for a 2 star motel.

I'm not expecting anything special except maybe a couple of bizjets, although I have a fair idea of what is coming to AKL

Playing devil's advocate - imagine if we have another cold snap during Sept/Oct. There would be a lot of people who would be stuck around the country... It's unlikely but this year has been totally unpredictable from start to finish. (barring the economic meltdown that is - that was bound to happen)

Moving on to NZ39. The timings are definitely ideal for AKL-HKG-AKL rather than HKG-LHR. It allows you to fly up, arrive in the morning to spend the day in town, then fly back in the evening. Even if you stay a night you're able to leave after work on the friday, and arrive back on the monday morning to head into the office well before lunchtime.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:24 am

Some may be interested to know that it is now almost certain NZ will be leasing back A320 MSN 2445 from later this year. This aircraft used to be ZK-OJK, and is currently with TAM.

Source is internal so cannot link.

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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:32 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 1):
Very glad to see #100 of this thread...the Aussies are lagging way behind
Quoting ZKNCL (Reply 5):
Yeah! Lets see how long it take them to reach #100, anyone wants a guess?

Well, at least we are prepared to share ourselves around (do a search and you will find heaps relevant to Aussie aviation that is not in "our" thread). So, on that basis, it will probably take us another 10 years to catch those who live in the second best country in the world   .
Seriously, congratulations on reaching the ton, I enjoy reading the thread as it is full of passion for anything aviation. The last 2 posts I made in the NZ thread were deleted, so I have "taken my ball and gone home". Well done, keep up the good work, cheers.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:34 am

100! Thanks everyone for the great reads over the past 4 years or so. I started reading the topics back in 2007 because I wanted to find news about the supposed new livery that was going to be rolled out, and though that never happened, I've stuck around through 20,000 posts or so because there's been some fantastic discussions.

Jason, Mariner, NZ1, and everyone else, cheers for some great reads, for info you pass on etc. I have to give a big thanks to Koruman, who has the best ideas and the best way of putting across his point of view. If I ever make it into the higher echelons of NZ, Koruman.. You've got yourself a job as a strategy consultant.

As much as I like TN, bring on their collapse, NZ taking back their PPT-LAX cash cow, and making themselves back into the Pride of The Pacific that it once was! Ideally from their new hub in Invercargill, of course... Just keeping it REAL  
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:44 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 10):
Some may be interested to know that it is now almost certain NZ will be leasing back A320 MSN 2445 from later this year. This aircraft used to be ZK-OJK, and is currently with TAM.

I know what leasing is but does this mean ZK-OJK will remain with TAM or come home (Where it should belong!   just joking  )

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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:45 am

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
NZs 1900D fleet replacement possibilities

What about the RUAG Do 228-212NG? Available as new-build, seats up to 19 pax and is - at least in my opinion - a better option than the B1900D or others. I doubt that many of the mentioned routes will actually be able to support 30 seaters, IMO the only option is to look at another 19-seater in the longer term.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:47 am

Happy 100th all!

I had also heard a few rumours on ZK-OJK. It will be nice to see this tail back 'home' again. It's got to be the perfect fit for the NZ operation, based on its original spec. It sits nicely in the middle of the airline's A320 fleet. I hope TAM haven't screwed with it too much.............

A few thoughts come to mind. How will the airline get this into the current regional spec in a timely manner? I can only imagine the timeline on things like seats and IFE must be a little problematic?

Where will this extra A320 capacity be utilised? I gather we must be looking at some new regional city pairs? When are these likely to be announced?

Great new for NZ. This will see the A320 fleet at 17 frames after ZK-OJR and S arrive. Officially NZs biggest jet fleet ever?
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:49 am

Quoting aflyingkiwi (Reply 7):
That's a bit of a surprise but I guess the home clientale for airlines like MH, TG, SQ & CI aren't exactly known as huge rugby fans. They should be able to fill the planes up with connectors from the UK & France though?
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 9):
Nah - Nobody is coming from that part of the world except a hardcore supporter

Have you any idea how much of a minority sport Rugby Union is in the UK and France?

In England and Scotland it is a sport followed by a small minority of upper-middle class men who have been to boarding school.

In Ireland it is distant third behind Gaelic football and football.

In Wales it used to be the dominant sport among the 2 million people living in the south, while the 1 million in the north have long preferred football (due to their proximity to Liverpool and Manchester). But over the last ten years football has overtaken rugby in the south too.

In France the situation is even more stark. Rugby was only ever a significant game in the deep south, but the last two decades have seen mass Arab immigration to the south and the total obliteration of rugby by football. The only significant city in the south (Marseille) hasn't even got a top level rugby team! There is Toulon 50 km down the road, but they are a millionaire's plaything and don't actually have little things like fans - their stadium holds 13,000 people and is always half-empty.

Have you never wondered how our All Blacks remain at or near the top of the rugby world when we only have 4 million people? It's because the only other country with anything like as many people interested in rugby is South Africa, with 5 million white people interested in rugby.

It has been obvious for ages that the World Cup would hardly bring in any extra travellers, and would drive away more.

I have two Air New Zealand Premium Economy BNE-AKL-LAX trips booked during the World Cup. And until recently, I couldn't upgrade the BNE-AKL sectors from Economy to Business because all Business inventory was categorised as C class in anticipation of mountains of Business Class rugby fans coming. Recently this all got converted to C and D and even I and R class - and all of a sudden the upgrades cleared.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:00 am

Quoting aflyingkiwi (Reply 7):
That's a bit of a surprise but I guess the home clientale for airlines like MH, TG, SQ & CI aren't exactly known as huge rugby fans. They should be able to fill the planes up with connectors from the UK & France though?

Rugby isnt big enough as a sport in Europe to fill any planes with supporters from Europe. I feel like a record on repeat here so I wont tell the same story again but...

In regards to the RWC I always wondered if it would have been possible to schedule some extra flights from the Polynesian islands?
I assume its to late now but that should have been the best market out there for the RWC. Like NZ these islands have rugby as their national game and alot of the islanders have familymembers or close relatives residing in NZ. Perfect time for a visit to the cousins, sleep in the guestroom, drink a few beers and watch a game or two and then back home. I doubt all Polynesian games will be sell outs, so tickets should be plentiful and not cost an arm and a leg (touts wont make any money on those games).

From a personal standpoint I really hope the Asian carriers wont change their schedule because that will cause havoc on my own travels.
Earlier this month I saw that NZ offered some good deals to Australia during the RWC. That surprised me. 300 odd dollars return incl taxes. I booked myself and the missus a shoppingtrip to Melbourne. I thought planes would be fuller during the RWC but i guess games arent often enough.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:51 am

Quoting ZKNCL (Reply 5):
Which options could NZ take up for future expansion and where should they be deployed?

I returned from a South America trip on LAN the other day and it got me thinking... why doesn't NZ pursue codeshares with just about every airline that flies routes that it doesn't? I mean, it would be a low cost, low risk strategy of tapping into some new markets and former ones. And alliances are flexible enough to allow codeshares with competing alliance carriers right?

So, a few examples that spring to mind...

LAN (Santiago and beyond)
Korean (Seoul)
China Southern (Guangzhou)
Singapore (Singapore)
Air Tahiti Nui (PPT-LAX, if it's that important).

All these carriers offer pretty high quality inflight service, safe, reliable travel and offer pretty great onward connections. And it would be a tonne easier than sending your own metal everywhere (assuming it gets delivered at some point thank you very much Boeing).

Anyway, just a thought. I know codesharing isn't just happy slappy simple, but it would be interesting I think.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:03 pm

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 18):
Korean (Seoul)

NZ codeshare with OZ.. Via SYD though. It seems like it'd defeat the purpose of an alliance if there was an option like this one to go stright to ICN on KE.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 18):

China Southern (Guangzhou)

Too close to HKG to really make any impact. In your example, it'd probably be better to codeshare with CX out of HKG. And service levels of CZ are still questionable at this stage.


And.. Well.. Singapore Airlines - I wonder if/when NZ will rectify their differences with them.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:56 pm

some good news for Hamilton;

Hamilton International Airport in New Zealand has received an approval to extend its runway by 800m, lengthening it to nearly 3,000m.

The runway, which will be extended over the next 15 years, is estimated to cost between $22m and $25m.

http://www.airport-technology.com/news/news127122.html


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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:44 pm

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 10):
Some may be interested to know that it is now almost certain NZ will be leasing back A320 MSN 2445 from later this year. This aircraft used to be ZK-OJK, and is currently with TAM.

I guess as OJK has no IFE it will be used only on domestic flights? Good to hear of her return though.

Congrats on the 100 posts all, I didn't think it would happen until after I was back in NZ!

Back in Denmark now, but spent a couple of weeks travelling in Britian recently. There is little in the press about the RWC and only one person asked me who would win the competition (I said we would find out soon enough!). So I would have to agree that it is not very high on agendas on this side of the globe.

We are on NZ38, returning to AKL on Thursday morning, I'll have a look around to see how full it is  
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:45 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 9):
Moving on to NZ39. The timings are definitely ideal for AKL-HKG-AKL rather than HKG-LHR. It allows you to fly up, arrive in the morning to spend the day in town, then fly back in the evening.

With the exception of those on urgent business, who would want to pay $2000 and fly for 23 hours just to spend 13 hours on the ground in HKG?

Quoting ZKNCL (Reply 5):
Which future aircraft could we see to replace the ATR?

One of ATR72-500, ATR72-600 or Q400?

Quoting aotearoa (Reply 15):
Where will this extra A320 capacity be utilised?

Could this be a replacement of one of the domestic 733s? Maybe one of the 733s is close to the need of a major check, and it would be more economical to park the aircraft until her return to lessor and lease an A320 instead?

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 19):
service levels of CZ are still questionable at this stage

They get you there but don't expect more than that.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:55 pm

Quoting zkojh (Reply 20):
Hamilton International Airport in New Zealand has received an approval to extend its runway by 800m, lengthening it to nearly 3,000m.

The runway, which will be extended over the next 15 years, is estimated to cost between $22m and $25m.

http://www.airport-technology.com/ne....html

Guessing it will be suitable for most AKL diversions now. Although if AKL is closed by fog then HLZ is almost certainly going to be also!

Congrats everyone on 100 threads!
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:33 pm

Quote:
According to the Air NZ website 'Timetable' a 77E is being substituted on NZ2/NZ1 AKL-LAX-LHR on the 16th, 19th and 22nd August (one 77W out for 9 days) and the 29th and 31st August (one 77W out for 5 days).

That means about four and a half days to reconfigure each 77W. Two should be completed by the 25th August, all three by the 3rd of September.

From 25th August there is a 67% chance you will get the new 77W PE configuration and the possibility of getting a 77E.

PA515

Sweet! I'm in PE on NZ2 on 27th August so my chances are better than expected!

I'll have to see whether our people on the ground in AKL can tell me what which aircraft is operating NZ1 on 26th?
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:35 pm

Quoting cchan (Reply 22):

With the exception of those on urgent business, who would want to pay $2000 and fly for 23 hours just to spend 13 hours on the ground in HKG?

It does happen - I've done day trips to Hong Kong, Singapore, China, and a few other Asian destinations ex-NZ and ex-AU before.

The challenge for NZ is optimizing for:
1. AKL - HKG passengers
2. AKL - LHR passengers
3. HKG - LHR passengers
4. XXX-HKG-LHR passengers
5. AKL-HKG-XXX passengers

While also ensuring the reverse is true. The more that I think about it, lengthening the HKG tech stop on the northbound seems to be the best option since it allows better timings for use-cases 3 and 4, minimally impacts use case 2, and does not impact use case 1 and 5.

The minimal impact to use case 2 can be offset by the fact that HKG is a reasonable stopover airport, and anyone who is particularly time-sensitive on AKL-LHR could route via LAX. Perhaps with a lengthier stopover in HKG it would give justification to an NZ owned/operated lounge (wishful thinking!) and it might tie in better with the KoruHub approach.

The timings LHR-HKG-AKL seem okay for the reverse of all use-cases without needing too much alteration - it can collect Asian and the first wave of European arrivals quite nicely for XXX-HKG-AKL, while giving reasonable Asian LHR-HKG-XXX connections, as well as local origin traffic.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 18):

I returned from a South America trip on LAN the other day and it got me thinking... why doesn't NZ pursue codeshares with just about every airline that flies routes that it doesn't?

I agree, I wish that they both expanded their code share offerings and the destinations available via online booking. The codeshare expansion with non-Star airlines is slightly problematic from a frequent flyer perspective as Koruman has pointed out in the past, but this could be managed - and is a minimal downside for the increased revenue possibilities. I guess the cost of managing the codeshares needs to be analysed though.

While it potentially removes some value and revenue from the Star Alliance it can increase revenue to NZ, e.g. if I want to fly to Hanoi today I might do AKL-SIN-HAN on SQ, while I might be persuaded to travel AKL-HKG-HAN using a codeshare with VN - especially if I can earn NZ miles. Interestingly enough NZ publishes a fare for this today, but doesn't have Hanoi as a destination option online, and it won't show up as nicely as a single code itinerary would.

It also makes a "whole of business" deal easier with NZ for corporates, since NZ codeshares make it easier to stay on-network, which can in turn increase business onto Star. An employer of mine had a QF whole of business deal which was great due to QF's extensive codesharing network (which is partially driven by OneWorld's more open approach to codeshares).
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:10 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):
Have you any idea how much of a minority sport Rugby Union is in the UK and France?

There still 110,000 senior rugby players in France and 167,000 players in England, both significantly more than in NZ.

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):
In France the situation is even more stark. Rugby was only ever a significant game in the deep south, but the last two decades have seen mass Arab immigration to the south and the total obliteration of rugby by football.

Again rubbish, where is your proof, I work with a couple of French blokes and have another French friend, all three are made on rugby, club rugby in France is thriving. I've been to club rugby games in France, have you? Stade Français regularly sell out Stade de France, no associoation football club in France draws a bigger crowd.

Have you ever tried getting six nations tickets, it's nearly impossible except for the games in Italy, even there the game is becoming more popular, when the All Blacks played in Milan 2 year ago they sold out the San Siro, it was one of the best crowds I've ever seen, three quarters of them were Italians.

Through my work I know a lot of guys in the UK who are heading down to NZ for the world cup, it's not all doom and gloom as you are predicting.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 17):
Rugby isnt big enough as a sport in Europe to fill any planes with supporters from Europe. I feel like a record on repeat here so I wont tell the same story again but...

It's not a minor sport either, I would guess after football it's probably the next biggest sport, what else would be bigger? Not handball, tennis, cricket, athletics, only motorsport would draw bigger crowds but how many people actually race, it be significanlty less than play rugby.

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):
In Ireland it is distant third behind Gaelic football and football.

There are only 1500 less senior rugby players in Ireland than in NZ, populations are almost the same. The Irish rugby team had no problems selling out at Croke Park multiple times, something associoation football couldn't do, it's the 3rd largest stadium in Europe. Rugby is very popular in Ireland.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:32 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 23):
Although if AKL is closed by fog then HLZ is almost certainly going to be also!

Just my thought too! They'll need CAT III too. Unless it's being lengthened so they can try and call themselves the "LCC airport for Auckland" or something to that extent...
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:50 pm

Quoting cchan (Reply 22):
One of ATR72-500, ATR72-600 or Q400?

Why would they replace ATR72-500s with more ATR72-500s?

Don't know if the Q400's speed would be a huge advantage in a small country like NZ, but I guess we'll see in time.

100 posts. Good stuff
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:08 pm

Quoting cchan (Reply 22):
With the exception of those on urgent business, who would want to pay $2000 and fly for 23 hours just to spend 13 hours on the ground in HKG?

I've done that twice, and had a couple more 1 nighters. When it comes down to it. It maximises the use of your time, saves you a nights accomodation, saves money on meals away from home (cos you get breakfast and dinner on the plane) and minimises the time lost away from base so it saves quite a bit in the long run. When all said and done it's only 10h flying and not crossing many time zones - it's no different really from going to Australia for the day - you just get longer to do what you need to, and you get a decent sleep/fed on the plane.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:39 pm

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 25):
The more that I think about it, lengthening the HKG tech stop on the northbound seems to be the best option

It will depend on whether slots at HKG is available, it is a busy time there with lots of regional flights heading off. But then, I think NZ should give this a try if possible.

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 28):
Why would they replace ATR72-500s with more ATR72-500s?

If the type is the best fit for the needs then it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace older aircrafts with the same type. Other airlines have replaced older 737s or A320s with the same types.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 29):
When it comes down to it. It maximises the use of your time, saves you a nights accomodation, saves money on meals away from home (cos you get breakfast and dinner on the plane) and minimises the time lost away from base so it saves quite a bit in the long run.

Meals in HKG are dirt cheap compared to the price for the air ticket. I guess if one is purchasing some expensive electronics there or similar, it makes economical sense.
 
alangirvan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:11 am

Quoting TN486 (Reply 11):
Quoting cchan (Reply 1):
Very glad to see #100 of this thread...the Aussies are lagging way behind
Quoting ZKNCL (Reply 5):
Yeah! Lets see how long it take them to reach #100, anyone wants a guess?

Well, at least we are prepared to share ourselves around (do a search and you will find heaps relevant to Aussie aviation that is not in "our" thread). So, on that basis, it will probably take us another 10 years to catch those who live in the second best country in the world .

What you mean is the Australians will reach 99, and then do a Mark Waugh and be bowled.

Quoting cchan (Reply 30):
Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 28):
Why would they replace ATR72-500s with more ATR72-500s?

From reading threads online, I think ATR is close enough to deciding on a new 90 seater plane that it will be worth waiting to see what comes out in the next few months. It must have been a few threads ago that we called the new Bombardier 100 seater TP the Q500. That has not happened yet (airlines just were not interested?) but that is still a possibility.
 
DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:25 am

Assuming the rumours that HKG-LHR has come close to being dropped are correct, I wonder whether this morning's announcement that QF will drop that sector will change the equation any for NZ?

And how about NZ stepping in to run Australia-AKL-EZE services now that QF is pulling out of the SYD-EZE market? While GRU is clearly the airline's primary aim, they have signalled strong interest in EZE in the past . . . and with a few 744s not doing very much right now . . .
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:33 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 32):
and with a few 744s not doing very much right now . . .

Too big? NZ must be cursing the 787 delays!
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
nz2
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:54 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):
Have you any idea how much of a minority sport Rugby Union is in the UK and France?

In England and Scotland it is a sport followed by a small minority of upper-middle class men who have been to boarding school.

In Ireland it is distant third behind Gaelic football and football.

FYI there are more rugby players in England alone than all of NZL and as you point out those that are interested in Rugby are the affluent ones, hence why they can afford to pay players much more the rugby league. So obviously rugby is actually in a very healthy state in the UK/France. On the flip side more people play club rugby in AKL than all of Scotland.

It is interesting when you analise things different ways, like where does league sit in Australia - their main sport? No not by a long way, in fact you can argue that it is 5th behind cricket, AFL, netball and soccer. Then it depends if you take playing numbers or popularity...

Generalising on subjects does not mean accuracy but I do understand what you say, sure it is a minority but still a very important minority to those millions involved, it aint tiddlewinks!

One last take, what is the biggest live sporting event in the world (ie actual spectators attending the event). The Soccer World Cup, the olympics maybe? Nope, by far it is Tour de France, up to 1 million watch live on the roadside each day, for 21 days
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:34 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 32):
Assuming the rumours that HKG-LHR has come close to being dropped are correct, I wonder whether this morning's announcement that QF will drop that sector will change the equation any for NZ?

Might trigger Koruman's often proposed BNE-HKG with DJ feeds from SYD and MEL., to connect to NZ38   
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:21 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 32):
Assuming the rumours that HKG-LHR has come close to being dropped are correct, I wonder whether this morning's announcement that QF will drop that sector will change the equation any for NZ?

NZ will certainly benefit from the QF pullout. Until I see an official announcement, I am reluctant to believe that rumour. If NZ wants to keep HKG-LHR, they can also adjust ticket pricing to shift more AKL-LHR passengers from NZ1/2 to NZ38/39.
 
BlackLabel
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:32 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 36):
NZ will certainly benefit from the QF pullout

One hopes that's true given QF29 and NZ39 timings being quite similar, but part of the QF pullout is that BA will take up the operation, including leasing the LHR slots from QF - so BA may end up operating an additional service at the same time as QF29/30, or retime an existing BA service for it.
 
NZ747
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:33 am

Firstly, congratulations to all the regulars who have got this thread this far. I think an extra mention needs to go to 777ER for all his work in creating and maintaining most of the 100 NZ threads on this forum, good stuff mate!   

Quoting zkojh (Reply 20):

Hamilton International Airport in New Zealand has received an approval to extend its runway by 800m, lengthening it to nearly 3,000m.

A complete waste of money in my opinion. They need to get more regional flights first before thinking about long haul flights or flights with larger aircraft than the 737/320. Why would Asian carriers be interested in Hamilton? I think the only time we will see any heavy aircraft there is if they diverted from AKL, but even then with no ILS and the close proximity to AKL I doubt we will see this happen very often. Tell 'em he's dreaming...

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 27):
Just my thought too! They'll need CAT III too.

They simply won't be able to justify the very high cost of installing a CAT III ILS with the amount of traffic they have or will ever have.

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 14):
What about the RUAG Do 228-212NG?

The new Do 228 is now manufactured in Bangladesh, or at least it was when I read thr brochure on it. Compared to the B1900D, it simply doesn't match up to its performance.

The problem is, there aren't many manufacturers building aircraft for the around 19 seater market. We have the likes of Viking (Twin Otter)and RAUG (Do228) but these are very very old designs (Twin Otter designed in the early1960's) and I'm sure with todays technology there could be a lot better aircraft if manufacturers focused on new designs. There is definitely a market for it.

I have always wondered why ATR never ventured more into the smaller turbo prop market. Embraer used to have a good small turbo prop poduct at the time, but no longer produce them in favour of the jet market.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 31):
I think ATR is close enough to deciding on a new 90 seater plane

My understanding from discussions with Mount Cook staff, is that they are very interested in this concept from ATR. It wouldn't surprise me if they became a launch customer.
 
alangirvan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:26 am

I just googled RUAG 228 and this wikipedia article shows that it is Hindustan in Kanpur, India, not in Bangladesh. so the latest 228 is a bit updated. But it is an unpressurised aircraft, so it would not be such a good replacement for the Beech1900D (and not quite stand up head room in the aisle, which matters to some people.)

Someone should put the Embraer 120 or the Saab 340 back into production. 27 years since they first flew, with updated powerplants and systems they would fill a gap in the market.

(In 2009, RUAG started building a Dornier 228 New Generation in Germany with the fuselage, wings and tail unit manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Kanpur (India) and transported to Oberpfaffenhofen near Munich, where RUAG Aviation carries out aircraft final assembly, customized equipment installation, product conformity inspection and aircraft delivery. It is basically the same aircraft with improved technologies and performances, such as a new five blade propeller, glass cockpit and longer range.[2] The first delivery was in September 2010.)
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:16 am

Quoting nz747 (Reply 38):
They simply won't be able to justify the very high cost of installing a CAT III ILS with the amount of traffic they have or will ever have.

Well that's just great then isn't it! Have this long as runway so when AKL is fogged out, so is HLZ and even diversions won't make it there!
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
NZ747
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:55 am

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 39):
I just googled RUAG 228 and this wikipedia article shows that it is Hindustan in Kanpur, India, not in Bangladesh

Oops, my bad...not sure why I thought it was Bangladesh. Even so, aircraft not made in 'western' countries are usually not widely received by western airlines.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 39):
Someone should put the Embraer 120 or the Saab 340 back into production. 27 years since they first flew, with updated powerplants and systems they would fill a gap in the market.

Why revive outdated technology? Simply upgrading engines and putting in a glass flightdeck isn't good enough. With new materials, composites, and computer aerodynamics, why not create a whole new aircraft? Again, it would be great if ATR came up with a series of smaller turboprops. Perhaps A 19-25 seat ATR22 and maybe a 26-35 seat ATR32. Even a whole new modern take of the 30 year old design ATR42/72 would be great. Dreams are free...
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:29 am

Some one mentioned the 1900's having an upgrade in the near future to increase their life span. Would any body in the know be able to share what this would entail? Would it just be a cabin refresh or an avionics overhaul to equip the plane with an autopilot etc etc?
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:57 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 40):
Well that's just great then isn't it! Have this long as runway so when AKL is fogged out, so is HLZ and even diversions won't make it there!


With a Cat 111 B landing system it is highly unlikely that international flights are unable to land. Domestic flights are probably cancelled before takeoff. So I see no purpose in a HLZ runway extension. Anyone know whether AKL has ever been closed to international landings since the Cat 111B system was installed? Are the non-domestic A320's ( and their pilots) approved for Cat 111B operations?
 
DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:03 pm

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 39):
Someone should put the Embraer 120 or the Saab 340 back into production. 27 years since they first flew, with updated powerplants and systems they would fill a gap in the market.

Did I recall reading somewhere that the EMB-120 is able to be produced in small quantities to order on the EMB-135/145 line? Or was I dreaming?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:06 pm

Quoting NZ2 (Reply 34):

FYI there are more rugby players in England alone than all of NZL and as you point out those that are interested in Rugby are the affluent ones, hence why they can afford to pay players much more the rugby league. So obviously rugby is actually in a very healthy state in the UK/France. On the flip side more people play club rugby in AKL than all of Scotland.

It is interesting when you analise things different ways, like where does league sit in Australia - their main sport? No not by a long way, in fact you can argue that it is 5th behind cricket, AFL, netball and soccer. Then it depends if you take playing numbers or popularity...

Generalising on subjects does not mean accuracy but I do understand what you say, sure it is a minority but still a very important minority to those millions involved, it aint tiddlewinks!

And this affluent minority couldnt keep Londons rugby club in London nor secure money for a stadium from any private investors or from a local council. The club moved to High Wycombe.

However the RWC should provide for some interesting business jets.

In England football is dominant and then comes cricket.
There wont be hoards of English rugby fans filling seats to AKL for the coming RWC. Its to far away, to little interest and to few diehard fans. But who cares this is New Zealands national game, the fact that its only really Polyneisa, white saffas and some Aussies that care apart from NZ is irrelevant. Its NZ:s national game and its played in NZ so have fun the NZ way.

Its quite fun with this thread Koruman and I are English by birth, we seem to have a very different take on rugby in England than the native Kiwis here...
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Zkpilot
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:15 pm

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 32):
Assuming the rumours that HKG-LHR has come close to being dropped are correct, I wonder whether this morning's announcement that QF will drop that sector will change the equation any for NZ?

I'd say NZ might stick it out to see how it affects things. Not only would it reduce capacity on the route (making it more viable for the remaining flights), with QF not offering it themselves there might be a few more kiwis that choose to fly the whole way on NZ now.
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:27 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 47):
with QF not offering it themselves there might be a few more kiwis that choose to fly the whole way on NZ now

Just checked the QF online booking, the HKG-LHR sector seems to terminate at the start of the 2012 northern summer schedule (Mar 2012). Instead of QF operated flights, passengers are offered BA operated flight for the same price. It seems although QF is not going HKG-LHR on their own metal, they are still offering the via HKG option at the same price. The benefit to NZ from the QF pullout maybe limited there.
 
pilotdude09
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:15 pm

Hi Guys,

Glad to see little old NZ Aviation reach 100 threads  

Is there any way to track the last few LAN flights? Flying SYD-AKL on Thursday then connecting to CHC and then onto DUD so really hoping it's been on time lately!!

Also is there any other way to get into space plus (apart of being in J or *G/GE)? I booked mid range fare and first time I haven't flown to NZ with NZ in J instead decided to keep status with QF this time so see if I can get out of slumming it up the back on the way to CHC. Only 1hr20 I know but will take comfort any time!

Thanks.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
nascarnut
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #100!

Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:37 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 43):
Some one mentioned the 1900's having an upgrade in the near future to increase their life span. Would any body in the know be able to share what this would entail? Would it just be a cabin refresh or an avionics overhaul to equip the plane with an autopilot etc etc?

The 1900's are getting both a cabin refresh done as well as an avionics upgrade. I don't have details of what the upgrade entails but it will enable Eagle Air/Air NZ to utilize for another 10 years.