flyingalex
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Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:11 am

I searched for this question, but it seems not to have been covered yet:

With the no-fly zone still in effect over Libya, Libyan airlines are grounded indefinitely. Does anyone know where they've left their aircraft? Are they in Tripoli, or had they been moved abroad for safekeeping? Or to remote airfields elsewhere in Libya? If I were an airline CEO, I certainly wouldn't want to leave hundreds of millions of dollars worth of aircraft parked in a war zone if I could avoid it.

There are no recent photos in the database, but I'm hoping that perhaps someone has seen something somewhere.

Thanks!
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JCS
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:57 am

Wikipedia:

"On 19 March 2011 a multi-state coalition began a military intervention in Libya to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, which was taken to protect civilians specifically targeted by the Libyan Regime's forces in response to events during the 2011 Libyan civil war.[11]
Point 17 of the United Nations resolution specifically bans flights from members of the United Nations of aircraft registered in Libya, effectively prohibiting under international law the operation of Libyan based airlines.
As of March 2011, the Afriqiyah Airways fleet consists of the following aircraft with an average age of 4.1 years"


And the airline's own website:
This site is down for maintenance. Please check back again soon.

Their UK website is not blank

Found one article:
Libya: Air transport, a major casualty of the Libya no-fly zone resolution

Including: "The European Union decided to freeze the assets of Afriqiyah following the recent sanctions against the Libyan regime because it is a subsidiary of Libyan African Investment Portfolio."
 
babybus
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:04 am

That's a very interesting question and I was thinking the same. Did all the aircraft manage to get back to Tripoli? Wouldn't it be safer to have them away from the war zone in Tunisia or somewhere.

A lot of those aircraft were operated by foreign airlines on Afriqiyah's behalf so maybe they are all now flying for those foreign airlines.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
flyingalex
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:27 pm

Quoting JCS (Reply 1):
Wikipedia:

"On 19 March 2011 a multi-state coalition began a military intervention in Libya to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, which was taken to protect civilians specifically targeted by the Libyan Regime's forces in response to events during the 2011 Libyan civil war.[11]
Point 17 of the United Nations resolution specifically bans flights from members of the United Nations of aircraft registered in Libya, effectively prohibiting under international law the operation of Libyan based airlines.
As of March 2011, the Afriqiyah Airways fleet consists of the following aircraft with an average age of 4.1 years"

And the airline's own website:
This site is down for maintenance. Please check back again soon.

Their UK website is not blank

Found one article:
Libya: Air transport, a major casualty of the Libya no-fly zone resolution

Including: "The European Union decided to freeze the assets of Afriqiyah following the recent sanctions against the Libyan regime because it is a subsidiary of Libyan African Investment Portfolio."

Yes, I was aware of all this. As I said in my original post, all Libyan airlines are grounded indefinitely.

I was trying to find out where those grounded aircraft are located.
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bennett123
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:13 pm

My guess is that they are still in Libya.

I can not think of a country that would take them in, (either because, (like Tunisia and Egypt), they have new governments, or that their governments are unchanged. In that case, they are unlikely to want to draw attention to themselves.

Besides, if they had tried to fly them out, they would have been intercepted.
 
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litz
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:46 pm

Quote:
Point 17 of the United Nations resolution specifically bans flights from members of the United Nations of aircraft registered in Libya, effectively prohibiting under international law the operation of Libyan based airlines.

Are the aircraft actually Libyan owned and registered?

If leased or wet-leased, they might not be ... and if so, would be eligible for relocation elsewhere.

Besides, if a passenger jet took off and got intercepted, it would probably be escorted to a nearby "friendly" airfield, where it probably would remain today.

(loads of conjecture there, but a possible outcome nonetheless ...)

- litz
 
sw733
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:56 pm

Quoting litz (Reply 5):
Are the aircraft actually Libyan owned and registered?

A quick look at the a.net photo album of Afriqiyah's photos shows that most if not all appear to have 5A registrations, which is ICAO's code for Libya.
 
bennett123
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:04 pm

IMO, if they had been intercepted and "escorted" to a "friendly" airport, then someone would have heard about it.
 
bennett123
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:14 pm

according to www.airfleets.net A330-202 5A-ONH has been stored at CDG since 03/2011.
 
kaitak
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:17 pm

Two points arise here:

1) Were the aircraft leased? If they were, arrangements would probably have been made to fly them out, or stop them going back; remember when Israel launched an attack on the Lebanon about 2-3 years ago, MEA was permitted to fly its leased Airbuses out.

In this case, however, I think all of Afriqiyah's and LAA's aircraft were bought outright by the airlines. In this case, "tough luck".

2) When was the "no fly zone" announced; if it was announced without any warning, then it's quite possible that all the airlines' fleets were on the ground at TIP.

My guess is that when the fighting reaches Tripoli and the regime falls, we'll see a lot of smoking hulks at Tripoli Airport.
 
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viasa
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:00 pm

An Airbus A320 (5A-ONB) is stored in Malta (MLA).

The two A320s (4596 5A-ONN and 4639 5A-ONO) which were stored before the aircraft were delivered, were now designated for Lao Airlines.
 
CRJ900
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:31 pm

One or two of Libyan's CRJ900 are stored in Germany, I think.
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trijetsonly
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:35 pm

Quoting viasa (Reply 10):
An Airbus A320 (5A-ONB) is stored in Malta (MLA).

Thats because it was in maintenance at Lufthansa Technik Malta during the beginning of the UN intervention. Guess that LHT won't see a payment for that maintenance....
Happy Landings
 
bennett123
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:10 pm

http://maltaspotting.blogspot.com/2010_12_01_archive.html

This explains what it is doing in Malta.
 
awthompson
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:23 pm

I hope I will not get into trouble for saying the following. (Moderators, if I'm going too far I will respect it if you need to delete my post.) Something did not seem right about the celebrations in Tripoli after convicted Lockerbie (N739PA) bomber Abdelbaset Al Megrahi arrived back there on an Afriqiyah aircraft. It is remarkable how it all ended up. One Afriqiyah aircraft was destroyed due CFIT on approach to Tripoli a year later and now the country has been completely torn apart, co-incidence?
 
egph
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:33 pm

I really don't see why Afriqiyah or Libyan Airlines' aircraft have to be stranded in Libya at all. Surely exemptions can be made for civil airliners to be taken elsewhere for safekeeping whilst the Libyan conflict goes on. IF the airlines in question choose to keep their planes in Libya then that is their decision but if NATO/ the UN start saying that civilian airliners that pose no threat to civilians whatsoever are banned from being moved out of danger's way then they are being rather pedantic and silly.
 
bennett123
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:42 pm

Essentially that is the basis of the "No fly" resolution.

The amazing thing is that the resolution was to protect Libyan civilians, and how far this has been streatched.
 
flyhigh@tom
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:55 pm

Saw an A330 parked in Dubai during the beginning of the conflict. On the ramp between runways 12L and 12R along with a few business jets. Now i don't see it in that position any more when i drive by the nearby road going towards Sharjah. Not sure if it still remains in DXB! Maybe some of our folks who operate out of DXB can confirm.
 
B737200
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:06 am

There is one of their A320s parked in Malta (LMML). I think it was at Lufthansa Tecknik when this whole mess started. They recently moved it to a park I pass by everyday.
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atcsundevil
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:34 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 16):

Essentially that is the basis of the "No fly" resolution.

The amazing thing is that the resolution was to protect Libyan civilians, and how far this has been streatched.


The no fly zone extends to civil aircraft for several reasons. First (although less important), it prevents bad guys from an easy exit and sneaking out of the country. More importantly, it allows the airspace to be free of civilian targets. This is a war zone so it is important to minimize collateral damage. It would look very bad if a civil aircraft were mistaken for a hostile, like Iran Air 655. Having the airspace be in complete control of friendly forces (air superiority) makes the situation more manageable and far safer for civilians who may otherwise be caught in the cross-fire.

As for the situation in general, I think the goals have changed since the resolution was drafted. For better or for worse, the mission has shifted from protecting civilians to forcing some type of regime change or cease-fire. Neither of which will come soon without the UN or NATO committing conventional and unconventional ground forces -- the rebel forces just aren't capable of getting it done. I think this no fly zone could potentially drag out for another year or more, much like the Iraqi no fly zone did.
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something
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:58 am

There's also a Libyan CRJ900 at Hamburg, all titles removed. All five of LN CRJ900 are leased from Bombardier directly and are expected to be returned to the lessor shortly. There are two other Libyan based aircraft currently in German possession.

But the 'no fly' zone doesn't literally mean ''no flight at all''. Some days are actually rather busy at Tripoli and Benghazi, though I concede those aren't regular charter flights. Point 17 of the United Nations resolution specifically bans flights from members of the United Nations of aircraft registered in Libya. Thus effectively prohibiting under international law the operation of Libyan based airlines.

Libyan Airlines and Afriqiyah Airways' had been grouped under Libyan African Aviation Holding Company shortly before the revolution begun and were expected to merge into one airline. This step was supposed to facilitate the oversight over a co-ordinated development of the Libyan aviation sector.

The majority stake holder of both, LN and 8U, is the Libyan government through various funds. Therefore, they have been frozen as Libyan assets but have been used for humanitarian needs - UN ordered charter flights - in the past.
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tailfin
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:34 pm

It depends what you mean by 'civil' aircraft. As Afriqiyah Airways belongs to the Libyan regime it has other issues than just the no-fly zone.

Afriqiyah Airways is part of Libyan African Investment Portfolio. According to EU regulation and US regulation this company is wholly run and controlled by the regime, i.e. these guys set up Afriqiyah Airways and own it and therefore this company was specifically targeted by sanctions - the company was making money for the regime.
As such, the no-fly zone is a completely separate issue. European and US companies are forbidden from providing any assistance or carrying out any transactions with Afriqiyah as it is one of Gaddhafi's companies. The regime even have a number of aircraft in private cabin layout for state trips, such as the A300 that took the guy charged for Lockerbie bombing back to Tripoli. I guess any assets of the airline which are outside of Libya will be frozen.
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:36 pm

On a different point ...

It's a former Norwegian SAS pilot that is the dictator's private pilot and who flies the dictator A340 around:

He was apparently handpicket for the job last year ... and was not happy about the prospect of possibly flying the dictator out of the country / to safety. Don't know if he managed to get away and home to Norway or if he still intend follow his contract ...

[Edited 2011-08-19 10:13:02]
 
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viasa
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:39 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 11):
One or two of Libyan's CRJ900 are stored in Germany, I think.

True, but the CRJs belong to Libyan Airlines not to Afriqiyah's fleet.

Quoting b737200 (Reply 18):
There is one of their A320s parked in Malta (LMML). I think it was at Lufthansa Tecknik when this whole mess started. They recently moved it to a park I pass by everyday.

See above.
 
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breiz
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:00 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 22):
It's a former Norwegian SAS pilot that is the dictator's private pilot and who flies the dictator A340 around:

He was apparently handpicket for the job last year ... and was not happy about the prospect of possibly flying the dictator out of the country / to safety. Don't know if he managed to get away and home to Norway or if he still intend follow his contract ...

Allow me to comment that when you accept to be employed by the like of Ghaddafi, what you're happy about or not is kind of too late to think about.
 
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breiz
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:03 am

Here is an extract of the Safety Council resolution about the no-fly zone established on March 17th:

"It further decided that all States should deny permission to any Libyan commercial aircraft to land in or take off from their territory unless a particular flight had been approved in advance by the committee that was established to monitor sanctions imposed by resolution 1970 (2011)."

We can therefore assumed that most of the Libyan airliners were grounded at their locations on March 17th.
 
european742
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:24 am

I know this is not Afriqiyah but im sure I saw some Libyan Airlines CRJs at CGN when I was there, all titles removed.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:27 am

It is almost certain that NATO precision bombing has damaged/crippled infrastructure at Tripoli/Mitiga/Umm Aitiqah.
Radar/ATC taken out and Runway/taxiways cratered.

Identified military assets Il76/Helicopters and fighters with hard shelters damaged/destroyed.

Commercial aircraft will not have been directly targeted however may have suffered collateral damage.
They risk far more from ground damage in the coming weeks as fighting gets closer to Tripoli.

Benghazi remains open to receive NATO authorised /Red Cross/Red Crescent flights .
 
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breiz
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:19 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 8):
according to www.airfleets.net A330-202 5A-ONH has been stored at CDG since 03/2011.

Since March 3rd to be precise.
However, radar tracking places her flying back to Tripoli on March 10th.
 
kaitak
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:22 pm

There are also reports of fighting between rebels and Ghadaffi loyalists around the Mitiga Air Base, and it's probably inevitable that this will spread to the civil side. It's unlikely that any acft parked at TIP will survive intact.

Also bear in mind TIP's location - close to the coast; it probably took a pounding from ships/subs off the coast, let alone NATO aircraft.

It is now widely expected that MG's regime will fall within the next week or so. We should see very soon the extent of the damage to TIP.
 
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viasa
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:01 am

Quoting european742 (Reply 26):
m sure I saw some Libyan Airlines CRJs at CGN when I was there, all titles removed.
5A-LAC is/was in Hamburg (HAM) without titels and logo.
5A-LAL is/was in Cologne (CGN) without titels and registration.

I don't know if there were more LN CRJs in CGN.
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:22 pm

Tunisia would have accepted to park the entire LN and 8U fleet in its airports but i think the Libyans didn't get enough time to do it. We have assisted hundreds of thousands of foreigners escaping Libya and we are now hosting a million of Libyan citizens, so a bench of airplanes is not really a problem !
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:21 pm

I saw an A340 at Tripoli airport on CNN just now.
Seems to be in tact…….

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United787
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:35 pm

Just saw the same video on CNN...also saw an old 707?

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video...amon.tripoli.airport.cnn?hpt=hp_t1
 
bennett123
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:00 pm

I also saw 2 IL76's and an Afriqiyah A340.
 
bennett123
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:51 pm

IIRC, the sole A340 was A340-213 5A-ONE, (and this aircraft was a VVIP transport).

If so, it doesn't seem that he is going anywhere.
 
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breiz
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:52 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 34):
an Afriqiyah A340.

That's 5A-ONE as there is only one.
I also saw one of the two LAA's A300.
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:11 am

If anyone could confirm where the two A330s are it's be kind.

Another question was Afriqiyah the owner of the whole fleet or are the Airbus leased ? In that case they'd be repossessed I assume ?
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bennett123
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:40 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14610722

The picture at 12:48 shows an A320 at Tripoli Airport.

The 'NO' on the nose gear door would suggest that this is 5A-ONO.
 
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United787
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:15 pm

I saw images on CNN this morning and it appeared that at least one large civilian aircraft has been destroyed in the recent fighting, one with the same colorful tail that appears on the A340...
 
na
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:20 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 39):
I saw images on CNN this morning and it appeared that at least one large civilian aircraft has been destroyed in the recent fighting

The single A300 has been destroyed according to Reuters video.
 
FlyingAY
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:39 pm

Some destroyed planes at Tripoli airport are shown on the video here:

http://www.hs.fi/videot/113526883258...=Uutiset&cmp=tm_etu_videokaruselli
 
na
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:20 pm

Quoting na (Reply 40):
Some destroyed planes at Tripoli airport are shown on the video here:

http://www.hs.fi/videot/113526883258...selli

One destroyed plane, not some. The A300 5A-IAY as said before.
Btw, the video has been posted before in another thread.
 
kaitak
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:02 pm

A CNN report on Twitter, from Arwa Damon at TIP, has reported artillery inbound and a plane burning.
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:19 pm

Just saw a Libyan a/c, A300 5A-DLZ, burning, on CNN.
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TS-IOR
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:19 pm

Here are photos of A320s 5A-OND/K/L and others parked @ TIP :

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...79851.52217.133738650025293&type=1
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:24 pm

Well, the above confirms that at least one Afriqiyah a/c destroyed.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:42 pm

The one completely destroyed is an A300-600 registered 5A-IAY previously registered in Tunisia as TS-IAY and mainly used by the government. It seems also that an A320 was hit in the fuselage http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...=pu.133738650025293&type=1&theater
 
bennett123
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:55 pm

Reply 35 was incorrect, on viewing the image again it was 5A-OND.
 
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asuflyer
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RE: Where Are Afriqiyah's Aircraft?(Libya No-fly Zone)

Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:21 pm

5A-ONK from the pictures looks like it was hit. Two of the windows appear burnt-out

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