wilco737
Topic Author
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QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:31 pm

Pretty weird incident in Shanghai the other day.

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=441d508b&opt=0

An Juneyao 320 ignored the instructions of ATC to abort the approach to make way for a QR 773 which had declared emergency due to low fuel while diverting to Shanghai's Hongqiao airport.

I am sure there is more behind it than written on avherald, but ignoring such instructions is strange.

The 320 was rather short on fuel as well. 2.9 tons remaining will give you more than one hour of endurance, while the 5 tons of the 773 will give you less than an hour...

What do you think was going on there?

wilco737
  
 
mffoda
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:43 am

Wow! just Wow...

"An Juneyao 320 ignored the instructions of ATC"

Can they be shot for that in China?  Wow!
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
xiaotung
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:39 am

Apparently QR777 pilot declared "MAYDAY" and in any case the 320 in front should make way for it. A real disaster could have happened.
 
Carpethead
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:43 am

Perhaps the Tower spoke to the Juneyao plane in English and the Juneyao pilots didn't understand (or make it look like they didn't understand).
 
rowan1mck
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:50 am

Maybe a little off topic, but... it always makes me wonder, when an aircraft diverts to a 'secondary' airport for the same city as its intended destination, why do they position the aircraft to the intended destination? Wouldn't it be more sensible to bus the passengers between airports and just fly home from the diversion field?
 
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Moose135
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:05 am

Quoting rowan1mck (Reply 4):
Wouldn't it be more sensible to bus the passengers between airports and just fly home from the diversion field?

Well, first you would need to find enough transport to move perhaps several hundred people, their baggage, and any freight between the two airports, and the aircraft would need to be repositioned to the original airport anyway for the return flight, or you would need to move pax, bags, and freight to the divert airport, so why not just send them all to the destination field together?
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
nyc2theworld
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:10 am

Quoting moose135 (Reply 5):
Well, first you would need to find enough transport to move perhaps several hundred people, their baggage, and any freight between the two airports, and the aircraft would need to be repositioned to the original airport anyway for the return flight, or you would need to move pax, bags, and freight to the divert airport, so why not just send them all to the destination field together?

Not to mention arranging catering for the return flight along with fuel.
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
 
Tsveto4nik
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:39 am

Quoting mffoda (Reply 1):
Can they be shot for that in China?

Sure, absolutely... it's common practice for Chinese pilots, it's written in the concracts... happens almost every day...
Oh, and if it happens in Russia, pilots are being eated by special airport bears immediately after the landing...
 
WCARN
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:16 am

Who can tell me what the truth is?

Juneyao Responses to Rumors on "Qatar Airways' Alternate Landing"

http://bit.ly/n7oEGc

In recent days, there have various rumors on "Qatar Airways' alternate landing" spreading on the Internet, which involves Juneyao Airlines to some extent. In this regard, Juneyao Airlines makes the following statement:


1. The event concerned in the various rumors are currently being investigated by civil aviation authorities with no official findings and conclusions have yet been released as of now. Juneyao Airlines is actively cooperating with the investigation by civil aviation authorities and the involved flight crew have been suspended from duty pending on the investigation.


2. The contents of some online discussions are altered from the reality and the true situations of the actual event. In accordance to the relevant rules set by civil aviation authorities, and based on a responsible attitude to the fact, the company will thereby temporarily not be releasing any details during the official investigation.


3. Upon the release of official investigation findings by civil aviation authorities, the company will then release our internal investigation findings as well as the follow-up actions to be taken in addressing the issue.

Juneyao Airlines Co., Ltd

Aug. 24, 2011

[Edited 2011-08-24 23:42:41]
 
WCARN
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:18 am

It is said the Juneyao polit is a Korean.
 
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InsideMan
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:50 am

Quoting carpethead (Reply 3):
Perhaps the Tower spoke to the Juneyao plane in English and the Juneyao pilots didn't understand (or make it look like they didn't understand).

I've met my share of pilots for chinese (startup) airlines and their English proficiency is always scary!
I wouldn't be surprised if this was exactly what happened.....
 
RubberJungle
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:39 am

Much of the so-called "news" about this appears to have been taken as "fact" despite being gathered from Internet forums and rumours, rather than the old-fashioned practice of journalism and verifying information before posting it.
 
CXB77L
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:56 am

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 11):
Much of the so-called "news" about this appears to have been taken as "fact" despite being gathered from Internet forums and rumours, rather than the old-fashioned practice of journalism and verifying information before posting it.

I would think that avherald.com is one of the most reliable souces in aviation news. The report is pretty self explanatory, there is very little chance of misinterpreting what was said.
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
nethkt
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:29 am

When fly into China, fly a Chinese flagged carrier!
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
sw733
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:23 pm

Quoting mffoda (Reply 1):
Can they be shot for that in China?

Can you see my eyes rolling from here?

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 10):
I've met my share of pilots for chinese (startup) airlines and their English proficiency is always scary!
I wouldn't be surprised if this was exactly what happened.....

If the pilot is Korean, like WCARN says may be the case, his English may be better than his Chinese!
 
hz747300
Posts: 1906
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:50 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 14):

If the pilot is Korean, like WCARN says may be the case, his English may be better than his Chinese!

If that is true, this is true. Though if the pilot was Chinese and with English being taught everywhere in China nowadays, I would believe that younger Chinese pilots have better command of English than the old wise sages. Certainly, that's my experience, and I blame the internet for the youths having better spoken English, but terrible written English.

I would trust avherald, but it seems to soon to know for sure. Were there any other pilots in the area that have posted, ie, a United pilot listening in posting on PPRUNE? I suppose I don't want to believe that Juneyao just ignored the order...
Keep on truckin'...
 
mffoda
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:38 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 14):
Quoting mffoda (Reply 1):
Can they be shot for that in China?

Can you see my eyes rolling from here?

It was a joke... I guess I selected the wrong smiley face   
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
varig md-11
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:08 pm

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 10):
I've met my share of pilots for chinese (startup) airlines and their English proficiency is always scary!
I wouldn't be surprised if this was exactly what happened.....

you mean to say that from Chinese to Chinese, English language is mandatory?
boy, I am happy French is still accepted at CDG between tower and pilots.....
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
tommytoyz
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:46 pm

I read an account in German, and that article says the pilot refused to go around because he said he had waited long enough for his turn to land. It also states the pilot had been put on leave pending the investigation. If true, pilots like that have no business flying, not even gliders. Their minds are not working properly.
 
kaitak
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:59 pm

How did the QR aircraft come to be flying on low fuel; was it holding for too long?

What would be the normal alternate be for PVG? Dalian? Tianjin? Qingdao?

[Edited 2011-08-25 11:01:41]
 
carnoc
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:39 pm

It appears that Qatar Airways believes its pilot-on-duty acted correctly since http://bit.ly/qhwvAO reports that the airline told a Chinese media that it actually permits its pilots to declare MAYDAY if the aircraft has only 5 tons of usable jet fuel left during a flight and "the MAYDAY declaration was primarily done due to the safety consideration for all passengers and crew members aboard".

It would be really interesting to see how the findings of official investigation will come up with, hopefully it will be released soon...

Regards,
 
sw733
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:48 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 19):
What would be the normal alternate be for PVG?

I have to imagine it will always be SHA first, much as it was here. The city is so large that, as proven in this case, one can be open whilst the other is closed. However, if both are closed, my guess would be Hangzhou, Ningbo, and Nanjing first, followed by places like Qingdao, Wuhan, and Nanchang.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 19):
Dalian? Tianjin?

These are both pretty far away from Shanghai. I cannot imagine they are high on the ideal list, but I could be wrong.
 
carnoc
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:49 pm

Quoting carnoc (Reply 20):
How did the QR aircraft come to be flying on low fuel; was it holding for too long?

It was probably holding for too long at PVG before finally decided to land at SHA, there are mixed information as some Chinese reports say the aircraft had been holding around PVG for 2+ hours, some say only about 1.5-hour etc.

Regards,
 
Grid
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:54 pm

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 18):
I read an account in German, and that article says the pilot refused to go around because he said he had waited long enough for his turn to land. It also states the pilot had been put on leave pending the investigation. If true, pilots like that have no business flying, not even gliders. Their minds are not working properly.

Unfortunately, impatience is big supply worldwide and China is not immune. It is unfortunate that this attitude might be creeping to aviators.
ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:37 pm

Quoting rowan1mck (Reply 4):
Wouldn't it be more sensible to bus the passengers between airports and just fly home from the diversion field?

Sometimes the diversion field is 500 miles (or more) from the destination.

buses just aren't fesible.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
redhair
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:39 pm

Quoting Tsveto4nik (Reply 7):

hahahahahahahaha, you really made my day with this comment
 
carnoc
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:00 pm

One of the regional bureaues of Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) has announced the findings and decisions into the incident, and it seems as outlined in http://bit.ly/pWi6As that Juneyao Airlines should pretty much take full responsibilities for the incident and the Korean captain on duty will have his/her Chinese ATPL revoked and be banned from piloting in China forever...

Regards,
 
kaitak
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:35 am

Quoting carnoc (Reply 26):
One of the regional bureaues of Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) has announced the findings and decisions into the incident, and it seems as outlined in http://bit.ly/pWi6As that Juneyao Airlines should pretty much take full responsibilities for the incident and the Korean captain on duty will have his/her Chinese ATPL revoked and be banned from piloting in China forever...

They don't do half-measures when it comes to errors! Here's a further report from the Sydney Morning Herald:

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...p-landing-slot-20110830-1jjl4.html

Note the reference to an error by the QR crew; the Chinese punishment may have been quite harsh, but I can't think that QR will look too kindly on this.
 
WCARN
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RE: QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way

Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:55 am

Quoting "Note the reference to an error by the QR crew; the Chinese punishment may have been quite harsh, but I can't think that QR will look too kindly on this."

Juneyao Airlines commits to implementing CAAC's decisions: http://bit.ly/oX3JxM. Poor Juneyao!

Safety First...

[Edited 2011-08-30 02:57:35]

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