einsteinboricua
Topic Author
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US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:20 am

OK, we know that Parker is just itching to get another airline to merge with US and we can pretty much agree that this will be inevitable if UA/CO, and to a certain extent SW/FL, bring in a lot of cash as a single entity (like DL has done). But what to do until that times comes?

Every time I look at the US wiki article, I'm a bit frustrated. Noting the improvements US has made over the past decade, I believe that US could expand. So why hasn't it? I don't think that with 10 767s (which I think will be retired when the A350 fleet arrives), 24 A330s, 15 757s, and 22 A350s you'll get far, especially when you focus a lot of service to Europe only.

We know US had authority to fly to China and for whatever reason it was (most likely the lack of equipment) never launched the service. I'm pretty sure the A332 can reach an Asian city from PHL (someone correct me if I'm wrong) or at least from PHX (which can be turned into an Asian gateway).

I'm aware that until the crew issue is not resolved, any growth plans may be hampered, but in the meantime, what can US do right now to solidify its position and grow? Is there any benefit to add more international destinations? More widebodies?

I don't expect for it to become a giant, but maybe reach a size similar to AA (minus the money loss). I think US has potential to become a big player once again, but is this the peak for the airline or is there still room for more growth?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
dlramp4life
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:33 am

Hmm....PHX as a gateway to Asia.....It could happen but for some reason US does not to have wide bodies in PHX. In fact all of US's widebody equipment is used by servisair for BA and HA operations. The airport has a nice international terminal and US makes use of it for mexico and canada flights along with BA, AeroMexico, Air Canada, and West Jet. I think it would work..Espically with cargo
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HPRamper
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:42 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
OK, we know that Parker is just itching to get another airline to merge with US and we can pretty much agree that this will be inevitable if UA/CO, and to a certain extent SW/FL, bring in a lot of cash as a single entity (like DL has done). But what to do until that times comes?

I think if US ever merges with anyone, it will certainly not be with WN, and I don't think UA is likely either.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
We know US had authority to fly to China and for whatever reason it was (most likely the lack of equipment) never launched the service. I'm pretty sure the A332 can reach an Asian city from PHL (someone correct me if I'm wrong) or at least from PHX (which can be turned into an Asian gateway).

PHX is subpar for long-haul routes due to the high temperatures. NRT would probably be in range, but once you start looking at major China markets or anything further, those become problematic.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I'm aware that until the crew issue is not resolved, any growth plans may be hampered, but in the meantime, what can US do right now to solidify its position and grow? Is there any benefit to add more international destinations? More widebodies?

US is busy consolidating its operations into strong markets and pulling out of those where they see no long-term benefit or growth potential. Cutting down LGA and building up DCA via the slot swap with DL is one example of this as was pulling down the LAS hub and BOS focus (which are even now still underway). There is no incentive for US to do anything drastic right now. They can afford to wait for some other airline to come knocking or even liquidate, as they are in a fairly strong position as things stand.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I don't expect for it to become a giant, but maybe reach a size similar to AA (minus the money loss). I think US has potential to become a big player once again, but is this the peak for the airline or is there still room for more growth?

There isn't really any room for growth domestically, and you can't expand internationally unless you have the domestic feed. Domestic travel is diluted as it is. US will never be the giant that UA or DL are barring a merger or the liquidation of another, major carrier.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:47 am

PHX is a poor gateway to Asia in geographic terms, socio-economic terms, and weather terms. PHX is too far south which causes significant backtracking for most transit pax, PHX lacks a large base of business passengers to fill the premium seats, and PHX's hot weather compromises the performance of the A332 on long routes such as PHX-TYO (unless it left late at night)

US will maintain its current position as a north america-focused legacy/lcc hybrid with a niche TATL network.
 
silentbob
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:50 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
We know US had authority to fly to China and for whatever reason it was (most likely the lack of equipment) never launched the service. I'm pretty sure the A332 can reach an Asian city from PHL (someone correct me if I'm wrong) or at least from PHX (which can be turned into an Asian gateway).

US expected to get some A340s on the used market when the 787s rolled out. With all of the delays to the 787 program, those aircraft did not become available. To use A332s or to fly from PHX would have required them to re-apply for approval as the plan submitted was for A342s out of PHL.

PHX will not be the asian gateway for US. Very little local demand in addition to the temperature issues mentioned earlier.
 
HPRamper
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:17 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 3):
PHX is a poor gateway to Asia in geographic terms, socio-economic terms, and weather terms. PHX is too far south which causes significant backtracking for most transit pax, PHX lacks a large base of business passengers to fill the premium seats, and PHX's hot weather compromises the performance of the A332 on long routes such as PHX-TYO (unless it left late at night)

As long as US has a good domestic network with which to feed a transpac, business traffic from PHX itself is only icing. And as the vast majority of US feed would be from the east coast and southeast, PHX is not too far south by any means and there is a minimum of backtracking. This of course is directed specifically at US which has no other western hub. In other airline networks, PHX would be in a much worse position.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:29 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I'm aware that until the crew issue is not resolved, any growth plans may be hampered, but in the meantime, what can US do right now to solidify its position and grow? Is there any benefit to add more international destinations? More widebodies?

My vision for US would be different than the US vision for US to some degree. However, I don't have any inside knowledge on their financial and other reasons for doing what they do. Anyhoo.

1. I feel that reducing LGA and BOS reflects the squandering of their assets. They should be the go-to carrier in the northeast: BOS, LGA, PHL, DCA. They should own these markets, or in the case of BOS, compete effectively on second-tier routes. How they got to be just PHL and DCA is (to me) sad.

2. They really need a better western anchor than PHX. It isn't a "bad" hub, but it's poorly positioned. DEN really is the sweet spot, but WN has changed that game forever. Had US purchased F9 prior to WN entering the market, it might have given them time to develop themselves appropriately there. The one thing I don't know is how their Star Alliance membership alongside UA affects such dynamics.

3. They could use a better western presence. That might just never happen, though.

4. I've said it before - new-build 767-300ER's with winglets and all the latest and greatest would seem to be a great replacement for the 762's and offer more flexibility than range-limited 757's and somewhat larger A330's. The price might be right as well.

5. Simplify their multitude of express partners and enhance their sub-100 seat offerings. That will take time.

6. A premium economy product akin to Economy Plus. Simply call is PLUS.

7. I don't know if UA/CO is good for them or not, but if 2015 rolls around and they are feeling surrounded, it might be time to jump ship. Could Oneworld accommodate AA, B6, and US? If so, maybe that's the way to go. If not, then B6 might be the better candidate for AA.

Not sure what else to suggest. Frankly, instead of larger, I think they might almost benefit from a slight slimdown, particularly on the express side. Replace 2 50-seat flights with one E190 or (gasp!) CS100/300 in an F/Y+/Y configuration and let them loose on key business routes.

Oh well, not expecting much. We'll see what happens.

-Dave
-Dave
 
Maverick623
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:54 am

Quoting silentbob (Reply 4):
Very little local demand
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):
2. They really need a better western anchor than PHX.

I really never understood the notion that PHX is a weak market. While O&D overall isn't enormous compared to, say, DEN or DFW, it's very much holding it's own. Even with the connections, US makes a killing off of the Canadian, Mexican, and Hawaiian markets.

That being said, I also believe that you can't run a single widebody route out of a hub like PHX profitably. Then again, the Hawaiian routes could easily be upgraded to support such an operation.


Also, this summer, mainline departures out of PHX exceeded those of PHL.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):


5. Simplify their multitude of express partners

Highly unlikely, as they just signed on OO to take over the 50-seat PHX flying. That makes, what, 7 or 8 express carriers now?
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
usflyer msp
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:10 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 5):
And as the vast majority of US feed would be from the east coast and southeast, PHX is not too far south by any means and there is a minimum of backtracking.

To get to Asia from the USA one must go NW. PHX is SW (in most cases significantly) of most cities that would provide transfer traffic. For example, PHL-NRT is about 17% longer if one routes via PHX.

LAX has a similar geographic deficiency but makes up for it by having bountiful O/D (something PHX does not have).
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:59 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 7):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):
2. They really need a better western anchor than PHX.

I really never understood the notion that PHX is a weak market.

Well, I didn't say it was weak, but rather that it was poorly positioned. SEA-XXX-east, I'd rather route over DEN than PHX. As others have mentioned, looking to the future of transpacific operations, PHX doesn't appear to have as desirable of a location as some other western hubs.

Were US to hook up with (eek) AS, then the SEA/PDX/PHX/LAX combo might make things better, but short of that, PHX just seems less-well-positioned then other western connecting hubs.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 7):
5. Simplify their multitude of express partners

Highly unlikely, as they just signed on OO to take over the 50-seat PHX flying. That makes, what, 7 or 8 express carriers now?

I agree. But it's what I'd want to do. Again, I think simplifying things would really be a good thing. One prop and two RJ feeders would seem adequate for a carrier their size. Add the CSeries and lose the 737's and I think they'd have a pretty good fleet.

-Dave
-Dave
 
delta2ual
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:37 pm

I still say US should ditch Star and join oneworld.
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kiwiandrew

RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:53 pm

Quoting Delta2ual (Reply 10):

I still say US should ditch Star and join oneworld.

Do you have any reasons? Or is it just something that you like to say?

I imagine that shifting alliances is a very expensive proposition, there is a severance fee to be paid, and a lot of arrangements to be unwound, potential alienation of frequent flyers as they have to change their flying patterns due to the change of partners, so I assume that you feel there are some very compelling reasons for them to change - perhaps you would like to share them?
 
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American 767
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting Delta2ual (Reply 10):
I still say US should ditch Star and join oneworld.

I couldn't agree more. That's exactly what they should do. I'm not saying AA and US should merge now like DL did with NW and UA did with CO, maybe it will eventually happen in the far distant future (2020s) but US should at least discuss with AA and BA to see if a switch to OW is possible. A few years ago (mid 2000s) nobody thought that CO who was then in Sky Team would ever jump ship and go to Star, it was announced in 2008. I do remember at at one time back in the 1990s US codeshared with BA on TATL routes and AA on the NorthEast Shuttle (LGA to BOS and DCA).

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BMIFlyer
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:23 pm

Quoting Delta2ual (Reply 10):
I still say US should ditch Star and join oneworld.

I disagree  

To be honest US being in * has given the alliance quite a large addition to the Alliance network - the Caribbean and lots of niche East coast towns which other * carriers don't serve.

I am for one glad that US is in * Alliance, and I hope they stay.
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bonusonus
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:17 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 9):
Were US to hook up with (eek) AS, then the SEA/PDX/PHX/LAX combo might make things better, but short of that, PHX just seems less-well-positioned then other western connecting hubs.

I think SEA would be ideal for US's Asia traffic. There really isn't any big international competitor there, so US would stand a good chance for competing better against airliners like UA and DL who are offering flights that connect in LAX or SFO. I don't know much about the airport though. Does it have room for expansion?
 
kiwiandrew

RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:27 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 12):
A few years ago (mid 2000s) nobody thought that CO who was then in Sky Team would ever jump ship and go to Star,

Are you serious? For CO at the time it was Skyteam or nothing because of the NW "golden share" which would have blocked them from any other move. CO joined with NW and KL on 15/09/2004, one day shy of a year later NW and DL both filed chapter 11 within minutes of each other, from that moment the writing was on the wall for CO and Skyteam. I don't think anyone ever believed that CO was an enthusiastic and willing member of Skyteam. CO announced their decision to jump ship at the first realistic opportunity, ie, when the golden share died.

In contrast, US took an active decision to join *A, and have built up strong relationships with a number of *A players. Although to some extent they are now in the shadow of the new UA the situation is quite different from CO's situation in Skyteam as there is no direct conflict between the networks of UA/CO and US, whereas the DL JFK/ CO EWR situation really wasn't tenable post DL/NW merger. US have had a previous, unsuccessful flirtation with key OW player BA. I am not saying that they couldn't take a decision to switch alliances, I just don't see what OW currently has to offer them over *A to justify all the costs associated with switching alliances.

On the other hand, if AA were to belly up ( not likely, but not totally outside the realms of possibility given their performance over the last few years) things would be very different, US would have the opportunity to be the lead American player in the alliance, and the other OW members would probably reimburse them the severance fee from *A. In that case I would see them leaping at the opportunity.
 
jfritz
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:01 pm

Does anyone think that PHX to FRA would work for US? BA is the only European flight out of this city and its been running well for a while from what I hear...It would be nice to see US, whos based here in PHX jump in and compete fror a virtually untouched European market. Would we be looking at an equipment issue as far as what aircraft could make that flight? Any thoughts on other European cities not just FRA?
 
flyby519
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:44 pm

How would PHX work as an int'l hub? It seems to me that the PHX population is rather small compared to other traditional int'l hubs, and lacks the connecting traffic to make it work in the way DL does with DTW.

Traffic from California isnt going to flow east to PHX to catch an Asian flight, and the same goes for Europe traffic when it is served well from LAX/SFO already.

Also the economy in the PHX area is still struggling, not to mention the housing market.

I think US has a good base of FF business travellers on the East Coast (BOS, NYC, DCA) and should focus on that. If they really want to grow the Europe/Asia markets they should do it from PHL.
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wn676
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:15 pm

Quoting jfritz (Reply 16):
Does anyone think that PHX to FRA would work for US? BA is the only European flight out of this city and its been running well for a while from what I hear...It would be nice to see US, whos based here in PHX jump in and compete fror a virtually untouched European market. Would we be looking at an equipment issue as far as what aircraft could make that flight? Any thoughts on other European cities not just FRA?

PHX-FRA has a weak local market which is one of the reasons why I think US has not attempted that route yet. They would probably try PHX-LON before anything else.
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kc135topboom
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:04 am

What airline would be dumb enough to want to merge with US? Not, DL, UA, or WN. US has the lowest customer satisfaction rate of any North American airline. They are financially weak, their stock value has dropped by more than 50% in just the last 3 months (when airlines typically hold their value due to the summer flying). They are forever stuck with Airbus, leaving no room to buy someone else's airplanes in the medium and long haul airliner group.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):
4. I've said it before - new-build 767-300ER's with winglets and all the latest and greatest would seem to be a great replacement for the 762's and offer more flexibility than range-limited 757's and somewhat larger A330's. The price might be right as well.

Nope, they can't do it. They can only buy Airbus.

They have labor union problems, which doesn't help their customer service image. They were the airline with the huge baggage problems over Christmas a few years ago.

They couldn't compete with DL, AA, CO/UA, WN, B6, and others in the North East US and are lowering their opeations in BOS, LGA, and PIT. Is PHL next?

US is an airline that deserves to just go out of business.
 
maxpower1954
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:15 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
US is an airline that deserves to just go out of business.

I'm sure the 35,000 plus employees of US Airways wish you all the best as well.
 
USAirALB
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:18 am

You have to get your facts straight...

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
US has the lowest customer satisfaction rate of any North American airline

Not even close. US was awarded the top customer satisfaction rate in 2010 for any US airline.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
They are financially weak

Financially week? US is financially stronger than AA to say the least, and god forbid there is another recession, US would fare it better than most US airlines.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
They have labor union problems, which doesn't help their customer service image. They were the airline with the huge baggage problems over Christmas a few years ago.

Yes, they have labor union problems, but they aren't the only one. The average joe doesn't pick airline a over airline b because of labor union problems. Most people probably don't even know they have union problems.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
They couldn't compete with DL, AA, CO/UA, WN, B6, and others in the North East US and are lowering their opeations in BOS, LGA, and PIT. Is PHL next?

AA can't seem to compete in BOS either, and US still serves more destinations from BOS than AA and UA/CO combined. They were having problems in BOS/LGA long before WN and B6 came around.

And PIT? Competition doesn't have anything to do with their problems at PIT! It was operating fees.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
US is an airline that deserves to just go out of business.

Hahaha
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usflyer msp
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:26 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
What airline would be dumb enough to want to merge with US? Not, DL, UA, or WN.

You might be surprised.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
US has the lowest customer satisfaction rate of any North American airline.

Not true.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
They are financially weak, their stock value has dropped by more than 50% in just the last 3 months (when airlines typically hold their value due to the summer flying).

They are fine financially and most airline stocks have not been doing well, mostly due to the fuel price spikes.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
They are forever stuck with Airbus, leaving no room to buy someone else's airplanes in the medium and long haul airliner group.

I don't know where you are getting this from. US can purchase any plane they want to.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
They have labor union problems, which doesn't help their customer service image. They were the airline with the huge baggage problems over Christmas a few years ago.

They need to resolve their labour problems but it really has not affected their customer service. They just have a different customer service philosophy than many other carriers. Not worse just different.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
They were the airline with the huge baggage problems over Christmas a few years ago.

That was 7 years ago! US has been GREAT strides operationally since the arrival of Robert Isom several years ago. People really need to get over it.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
They couldn't compete with DL, AA, CO/UA, WN, B6, and others in the North East US and are lowering their opeations in BOS, LGA, and PIT. Is PHL next?

US is kicking WN's but in PHL so dont expect any downsizing there. PIT was oversized and unsustainable due its costs. US had has difficulty competing in NYC and BOS sue to their lack of long-haul service and B6's lower costs so they have streamlined down to their four "cornerstones".

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
US is an airline that deserves to just go out of business.

No they don't...they have their niche in the marketplace and they exploit it well. YOu don't have to fly them if you don't like the service they provide. Many people enjoy US and for their sake and the sake of US' employees I suggest that you stop sipping on the haterade and give US a chance.
 
USAirALB
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:32 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 22):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
US is an airline that deserves to just go out of business.

No they don't...they have their niche in the marketplace and they exploit it well. YOu don't have to fly them if you don't like the service they provide. Many people enjoy US and for their sake and the sake of US' employees I suggest that you stop sipping on the haterade and give US a chance.

He probably had a bad experience on them 13 years ago, and refuses to go back. I know people that are like that. No big deal.
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silentbob
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:41 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):
3. They could use a better western presence. That might just never happen, though.

They have drawn down their western presence twice. Once following the PSA merger and once following the America West merger. If they can't keep what they have/get, there is next to no chance of them building it from the ground up.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 7):
I really never understood the notion that PHX is a weak market. While O&D overall isn't enormous compared to, say, DEN or DFW, it's very much holding it's own. Even with the connections, US makes a killing off of the Canadian, Mexican, and Hawaiian markets.

That being said, I also believe that you can't run a single widebody route out of a hub like PHX profitably. Then again, the Hawaiian routes could easily be upgraded to support such an operation.

It's a big market, but not an overly affluent one. It's not as dependent on connections as Charlotte is, but it still isn't as solid as Philly.
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:58 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
They can only buy Airbus.

Are you pulling a gentleman's agreement argument like many did with CO/DL/AA and Boeing?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
They are forever stuck with Airbus, leaving no room to buy someone else's airplanes in the medium and long haul airliner group.

Though Airbus helped finance US's bankruptcy exit (and merger with HP), their big Airbus order came years before Airbus even financed them. I see recent and future Airbus orders as more of a courtesy than a necessity. There's no deal written in stone saying that US HAS to order Airbus aircraft exclusively. Otherwise, no restrictions would apply for the so called gentleman's agreement between CO/DL/AA and Boeing.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
US is an airline that deserves to just go out of business.

Thousands of employees and many more loyal customers would beg to differ. Judging by this expression it's like saying that if my Whopper came with mayo when I said no mayo, then all BK's should disappear from the face of the planet.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Grid
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:04 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 21):
Not even close. US was awarded the top customer satisfaction rate in 2010 for any US airline.
Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 22):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
US has the lowest customer satisfaction rate of any North American airline.

Not true.

Weird then, that US Airways is the second-most complained about airline in the U.S. Of course, all the people who did not complain may be really, really, really satisfied with U.S. Airways.

http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-40652047
ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
 
Maverick623
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:50 am

Quoting silentbob (Reply 24):
but it still isn't as solid as Philly.

While PHL definitely bets PHX in the TATL and O&D, it's not overshadowing PHX like people think it is. PHL still has operational issues (mostly with the express side), and in terms of net profitability PHX outdid PHL last year, and recently had more mainline departures for a 2-month period than PHL.

Quoting Grid (Reply 26):

Weird then, that US Airways is the second-most complained about airline in the U.S.

Flaws with the DOT reporting aside (3500 complaints across the board, out of billions of passengers flown, is arguably low enough not to get an accurate reading, especially when the difference between 1st and 3rd place can be as little as 4 complaints), I particularly enjoyed this gem from the article:

Quote:
lodging an official complaint with the DOT means you have a serious gripe.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
USAirALB
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:09 am

Quoting Grid (Reply 26):
Weird then, that US Airways is the second-most complained about airline in the U.S. Of course, all the people who did not complain may be really, really, really satisfied with U.S. Airways.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...-airways-soars-to-top-ranking.html
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HPRamper
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:21 am

Quoting silentbob (Reply 24):
They have drawn down their western presence twice. Once following the PSA merger and once following the America West merger. If they can't keep what they have/get, there is next to no chance of them building it from the ground up.

The first time (PSA) US was not the same airline, so that doesn't apply. Period. Post-HP merger, US pulled down LAS, and for good reason. Unless losing money and wasting aircraft on very low-yield routes seems like a great idea to you.

Quoting silentbob (Reply 24):
It's a big market, but not an overly affluent one. It's not as dependent on connections as Charlotte is, but it still isn't as solid as Philly.

Its main weakness as a US hub is competition with one of WN's most established hub stations, not lack of affluence in the market.

Quoting Grid (Reply 26):
Weird then, that US Airways is the second-most complained about airline in the U.S. Of course, all the people who did not complain may be really, really, really satisfied with U.S. Airways.

I sometimes get the feeling that the majority of complaining about US appears on A.net itself.
 
AeroSafari
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:35 am

US does what they can with what they have. The economy is so-so (though its better then in 2008) its not necessarily a good time for expansion. US has announced/planned various routes that turned out to be something they wouldn't make $ on, therefore they never came to pass, or quietly went away (PHX-MBJ). US just doesn't have a bunch of cash on hand compared to other carriers or any financing for new planes. The fluctuating oil prices also have huge affect on US because they don't hedge their fuel.

The labor issues have lasted what seems like forever but in a way I believe it saves the company some $ without having to adjust salaries? A question comes to mind whether more $ can be made with more efficient crew staffing/routing if the labor dispute is resolved...

Adding more things (or raising the purchase price) for the passengers to buy inflight perhaps charging a few extra dollars for preferred seating, wifi, or food. Various extra oversize/heavy baggage fees seem to be a way US can make $... maybe its the only way they've been able to make a profit? Though raising fees is bad for the average consumer people still need to fly and they will.
Hopefully once US gathers enough capital the seat back entertainment can make a come back to their domestic fleet. Though their excuse seems to be passengers bring their own entertainment these days. I feel there's enough people that will see it and if it's there, they will buy it. It just needs to be marketed correctly. Theres also been talk of wifi being expanded to the 319/320s which may not be a $ maker right off the bat but in the future should prove to be lucrative.

If US keeps things up and fixes the recent "slow down" issue they are bound to have a profit for 2011. US has stated they are not interested in smaller carrier mergers such AS B6 F9 NK however that doesn't leave many (realistic) options left... I think US will be a stand alone carrier for the foreseeable future.
Just remember, the sweet is never as sweet without the sour
 
Maverick623
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:24 am

Quoting AeroSafari (Reply 30):
its not necessarily a good time for expansion

Good point. Even Southwest is cutting some routes this winter.

Quoting AeroSafari (Reply 30):
US just doesn't have a bunch of cash on hand compared to other carriers

About $3bn unrestricted cash, which is enough. At least they're not bleeding money like AA is.

Quoting AeroSafari (Reply 30):
or any financing for new planes

13 new A321s this year, another dozen or so next year, and more A332s in 2013... plenty of wiggle room.

Quoting AeroSafari (Reply 30):
The fluctuating oil prices also have huge affect on US because they don't hedge their fuel.

No major airline hedges fuel anymore... the risk isn't worth it.

Quoting AeroSafari (Reply 30):

The labor issues have lasted what seems like forever but in a way I believe it saves the company some $ without having to adjust salaries?

At the cost of not being able to fully realize scheduling efficiencies.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
USAirALB
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:35 am

Quoting AeroSafari (Reply 30):
Theres also been talk of wifi being expanded to the 319/320s which may not be a $ maker right off the bat but in the future should prove to be lucrative.

The problem is the lack of power on these planes. All premerger US A319/320/321 series aircraft were equipped with Empower ports, in all classes. The best thing they can do is bring the power back, although I don't know if that's possible or not, and some of the old ports are damaged. The one at my seat last week had gum stuck in it. Gross.
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cslusarc
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:45 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):

1. I feel that reducing LGA and BOS reflects the squandering of their assets. They should be the go-to carrier in the northeast: BOS, LGA, PHL, DCA. They should own these markets, or in the case of BOS, compete effectively on second-tier routes. How they got to be just PHL and DCA is (to me) sad.

The problem with US is their costs. They have to many older workers and retirees on the books. B6 is without those legacy costs, so it is a winner in Boston, New York City and the remainder of the Northeast.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):
2. They really need a better western anchor than PHX. It isn't a "bad" hub, but it's poorly positioned. DEN really is the sweet spot, but WN has changed that game forever. Had US purchased F9 prior to WN entering the market, it might have given them time to develop themselves appropriately there. The one thing I don't know is how their Star Alliance membership alongside UA affects such dynamics.


There are several things in the US marketplace that I wish could change the dynamics of the US airline industry:
1) Will AA survive on its own? A Chapter 11 filing is essential before a US-AA merger can proceed. AA needs to restructure its income statement and balance sheet.
2) What will happen with F9 and the rest of the Republic Airways Holdings group? Mainline pilots have had enough of scope giveaways, and want to take-back some scope. F9 is losing DEN to WN.
3) What is the future for HA? Will it eventually merge with AA, AS, DL or US.
4) Will a legacy network carrier gobble up B6? B6 has developed an attractive portfolio at JFK and BOS that someone like AA, DL or US will want to absorb.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):
4. I've said it before - new-build 767-300ER's with winglets and all the latest and greatest would seem to be a great replacement for the 762's and offer more flexibility than range-limited 757's and somewhat larger A330's. The price might be right as well.

I could see some gently used newer build 767-300ERs coming onto the second hand market in the next 5 years from JL or NH. However the 332s that they have on order are more efficient and have more cargo potential.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):
6. A premium economy product akin to Economy Plus. Simply call is PLUS.

In intercontinental markets, the gap between business class and economy has tripled since the early 1990s when business class was identical to Domestic First Class on a two-class aircraft. This premium economy should be more similar to BA's World Traveler Plus that is almost identical to Domestic First Class on a two-class aircraft than UA's Economy Plus or DL's Economy Comfort section. Four rows of seven abreast on a 330 with 39 inch pitch would attract a whole lot of customers from other airlines.
--cslusarc from YWG
 
maxpower1954
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:27 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 31):
The labor issues have lasted what seems like forever but in a way I believe it saves the company some $ without having to adjust salaries?

At the cost of not being able to fully realize scheduling efficiencies.

They are more than happy to pay 2/3rds of the US pilots the lowest wages in the industry than raise them to the level of the West
pilot group. They'll keep that situation going as long as they can, because the "scheduling efficiencies "of a combined operation would cost a lot more money than the present situation.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:12 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
we know that Parker is just itching to get another airline to merge with US

True, but the feeling is hardly mutual - nobody is really "itching" to merge with US.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
we can pretty much agree that this will be inevitable if UA/CO, and to a certain extent SW/FL, bring in a lot of cash as a single entity (like DL has done)

I'm not so sure any near-term merger involving US is "inevitable" at all. The airline still has yet to fully integrate its current workforce (imagine bringing a third group into the equation, and then trying to work a deal between the three disparate groups!), and arguably the airline's most valuable asset - massive DCA slotholdings - would have to be divvied out to competitors in the event of any major merger. None of the airline's hubs would really be all that big a prize to *any* carrier, just ask FL and WN about PHL!

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
But what to do until that times comes?

Continue to improve the airline. It has come a LONG way since the merger, but must keep working hard to shed a very nasty reputation (a la CO, which went from "worst to first" from the early 90s to the mid 2000s). Also, they MUST get their entire house in order - finish streamlining the fleet and route network, unify all employees into one group - before trying to merge again. They will be a much more attractive, valuable merger partner if they can accomplish that.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
Every time I look at the US wiki article, I'm a bit frustrated.

Not exactly the best source to consult, especially when it comes to historical [airline] facts that predate the internet era.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
Noting the improvements US has made over the past decade, I believe that US could expand. So why hasn't it?

Huh? In the past decade, US has drastically expanded! About 10 years ago, they started getting A330s - an aircraft significantly larger than the 767s, which were previously the biggest plane in their fleet. About 10 years ago, their network was overwhelmingly limited to a regional focus east of the Mississippi, with just a few transcons, Caribbean hops, and European routes in the mix. Since then, they have boldly expanded into new regions: Central America, South America, and Middle East (TLV). Not to mention a deeper push into Europe, and all of the places that came online thanks to HP (most Western markets, Alaska, Hawaii, Mexico, etc.). If anything, in the past decade the US network has expanded in a greater fashion than that of any other U.S. legacy carrier...

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I don't think that with 10 767s (which I think will be retired when the A350 fleet arrives), 24 A330s, 15 757s, and 22 A350s you'll get far, especially when you focus a lot of service to Europe only.

US is already one of the last operators of the 762, but they don't seem to be in any big hurry to dump the type a la UA/CO. The long range, relatively small birds are still perfect for developing Latin American routes and secondary European routes (particularly those beyond 757 range), and in their twilight years could be thrown on to popular Caribbean routes or even PHX-Hawaii. While I don't think the bigger A330s/A350s and/or smaller A321s/757s are by any means suitable replacements for this venerable type, I do think they will be gone when the A350s start to arrive or even when the A332 deliveries resume.

The 757s are irrelevant if we are talking about growth - US is the only major U.S. carrier that has aggressively retired the type, leaving a relatively small ETOPS fleet of "West" birds to serve Hawaii from PHX and "East" birds to serve Europe from PHL (and CLT). The type is long since out of production, but ETOPS examples remain extremely popular and are thus unlikely to become widely available for US expansion purposes.

The A330 fleet is set to provide for US expansion, but it could be a wash if the 767s are retired as they arrive. In any case, these birds do have greater range capabilities, thus bringing more distant markets into reach. The real growth possibilities begin when the A350s come online. At that point, we could see US pushing into Africa, the Indian Subcontinent, Asia, or perhaps even Oceania - PHX-AKL-SYD, anyone?  .

Oh, and you mention US's focus on service to Europe. That, my friend, may be exactly why we haven't seen much expansion from them lately. DL will be the first to tell you that the transatlantic realm is doing terrible right now, and with both U.S. and European debt problems continuing to put a huge damper on the economies on both of the pond, it should hardly be surprising that US has put off aggressive growth until things start to get better.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
We know US had authority to fly to China and for whatever reason it was (most likely the lack of equipment) never launched the service.

If PHL-PEK was ever really worth their while, they could have gone ahead and started it. It isn't that hard to lease "new" plane types to launch innovative routes, at least until second-hand birds can be acquired or orders can be fulfilled. Happens all the time.

Of course, US ultimately made the right choice by NOT starting the route. PHL-PEK would have been a complete disaster. Owing to a lack of O&D, they would have had to aggressively compete for cheap XXX-PHL-PEK connections just to fill the plane. Seeing as how UA's highly touted "capital to capital" IAD-PEK service barely made it (having to be seasonally routed via NRT several years), and DL just seasonally reduced DTW-PEK *and* SEA-PEK, I can only imagine how bad US would have fared serving PEK from a hub with absolutely no history/pressing demand for service to Asia at all. Had they actually started the route, it probably would have been dropped by now anyway...

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I'm pretty sure the A332 can reach an Asian city from PHL (someone correct me if I'm wrong) or at least from PHX (which can be turned into an Asian gateway).

From PHL, the A332 could probably reach NRT with an acceptable payload, but that'd be about it. Of course, NRT slots are very scarce, this is certainly not the time to be trying to launch new service to Japan, and the Asian markets are quite difficult to crack - relative to European markets, at least. Also, as I stated above, PHL has no history of transpacific service; might be a gamble that US does not want to take. In any case, PHL-Asia probably makes much more sense when the A350 arrives.

PHX presents even more issues. In addition to the questionable demand and lack of O&D that you have with PHL, you also have hot and high conditions (limiting the ability of the A330 to reach Asia, especially with a profitable load) and pilot issues - only US "East" pilots fly the A330 (from PHL), but PHX is a US "West" base. I can't imagine the West guys allowing East folks to fly such an important route out of PHX, and I can't imagine US ever willing to invest the resources in training/certifying the West group for an unproven route experiment. Again, probably best to wait until those A350s arrive. Hopefully by then there won't still be "East" and "West" groups!

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I'm aware that until the crew issue is not resolved, any growth plans may be hampered, but in the meantime, what can US do right now to solidify its position and grow?

The crew issues haven't stopped them so far! The "East" division has rapidly grown with all these new routes out of PHL and CLT (ATH, TLV, GIG, etc.), but "West" has seen nothing but cuts as LAS was fully dehubbed and PHX reduced as well. I hear they have compensated the "West" group by putting them on new PHL/CLT-West Coast routes. I suppose there are always ways to work around the problems rather than solve them!

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
Is there any benefit to add more international destinations? More widebodies?

International destinations are only a benefit if they are profitable. As exciting as it would be for us to watch US jump into a bevy of new foreign markets, it probably would NOT benefit the bottom line! They expanded a bit too much in Europe, and since then had to withdraw from a few markets while making several others seasonal. Latin America is pretty much fair game (de facto open skies with most countries, since spare bilateral frequencies are almost always available), but US has only decided to try GIG. Nothing is really keeping them out of places like India, Africa, or Asia, other than a lack of opportunities to make such routes work!

As for widebodies, they only operate them from two places in the U.S.: PHL and CLT. We simply aren't talking about New York, D.C., Chicago, or L.A. here. Philadelphia is a fairly big market, but demand is very limited beyond major European markets. Charlotte is a relatively small niche market that relies heavily on connecting traffic to fill pretty much everything as it is. If US was hubbing in bigger, more prominent markets with robust omnidirectional global demand they might need more widebodies. But, they aren't - so they don't!

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I don't expect for it to become a giant, but maybe reach a size similar to AA (minus the money loss).

The size of AA??? You must be joking. AA offers full 3 class service, has over 100 widebodies at its disposal, plays an integral role in a major global alliance, hubs in prime major U.S. markets, serves 4 continents with its own metal, has major established transatlantic and transpacific networks, and has one of the most storied brands in aviation at its disposal. US has a few dozen widebodies to play with, relies on secondary hubs, has never flown transpacific, and has a largely negative reputation.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I think US has potential to become a big player once again, but is this the peak for the airline or is there still room for more growth?

Huh? US *IS* a big player in the US market, bigger than it has ever been. I think there is plenty of additional room for growth, but they can afford to wait for things to get better before they flood the market with reckless capacity...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
Grid
Posts: 253
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:29 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 28):
Quoting Grid (Reply 26):
Weird then, that US Airways is the second-most complained about airline in the U.S. Of course, all the people who did not complain may be really, really, really satisfied with U.S. Airways.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201....html

Good article, which covers only two months ... May and June (a year is 12 months) and does not compare those months to the previous year's months. Also two of the three categories it deals with are probably the floor for customers - on-time arrivals and lack of lost bags, which, I'll state again, is really the bare minimum people expect. Good that it also led in fewest customer complaints and hopefully it can sustain that accolade.
ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:51 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 35):
In the past decade, US has drastically expanded!

True. Still doesn't mean it can't expand more.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 35):
The size of AA??? You must be joking.

Why not?

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 35):
AA offers full 3 class service, has over 100 widebodies at its disposal, plays an integral role in a major global alliance, hubs in prime major U.S. markets, serves 4 continents with its own metal, has major established transatlantic and transpacific networks, and has one of the most storied brands in aviation at its disposal. US has a few dozen widebodies to play with, relies on secondary hubs, has never flown transpacific, and has a largely negative reputation.

Yeah...and AA is bleeding money while US continues to rake it in.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 35):
Huh? US *IS* a big player in the US market, bigger than it has ever been. I think there is plenty of additional room for growth, but they can afford to wait for things to get better before they flood the market with reckless capacity...

When compared to the other legacy carriers, US is a distant 4th. Throw in WN and US falls to around a 5th place. While 5th is a great number, there's no doubt that it can solidify its position and remain/increase its ranking.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:22 pm

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 14):
I think SEA would be ideal for US's Asia traffic. There really isn't any big international competitor there, so US would stand a good chance for competing better against airliners like UA and DL who are offering flights that connect in LAX or SFO. I don't know much about the airport though. Does it have room for expansion?

DL is a prominent competitor, and I think they might put up a fight if US+AS were announced. They enjoy the AS feed at SEA and would be materialy affected if AS was no longer feeding them. As far as space goes, AS is reconfiguring their SEA ops and would seem to have the ability to grow their operation there.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
Nope, they can't do it. They can only buy Airbus.

.....??????????...........

Quoting silentbob (Reply 24):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):
3. They could use a better western presence. That might just never happen, though.

They have drawn down their western presence twice. Once following the PSA merger and once following the America West merger. If they can't keep what they have/get, there is next to no chance of them building it from the ground up.

As said before, the PSA era is irrelevant to today. However, I'm not advocating a full-scale western expansion, but I do think that they lack a strong enough western presence to be a longterm, standalone carrier. IMHO.

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 33):
The problem with US is their costs

Sure. But the other side of the equation is revenue. When you piss off your customers and employees long enough, you take a hit on the revenue side. I simply believe that they could and should have done more to grow their LGA (and to a lesser degree, BOS) ops.

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 33):
I could see some gently used newer build 767-300ERs coming onto the second hand market in the next 5 years from JL or NH. However the 332s that they have on order are more efficient and have more cargo potential.

The gap from the A321 to the A332 will be pretty sizable, and the lack of anything under the A332 size internationally will limit their opportunities long term. The 757's will eventually go - not much choice in the matter. The 762's the same. Can the routes that those planes fly support an A332? If not, then perhaps a smaller widebody might be a good investment. I understand that the A332 is more capable, but the current-build 763ER is a great plane and coudl probably do a good job as a 752/762 replacement.


-Dave
-Dave
 
HPRamper
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:24 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 37):
When compared to the other legacy carriers, US is a distant 4th. Throw in WN and US falls to around a 5th place. While 5th is a great number, there's no doubt that it can solidify its position and remain/increase its ranking

There is no need for US to be larger right now. There is already plenty of capacity to go around. They are somewhat financially stable right now, and growth could possibly jeopardize that.

Someone will always be #5. And yeah, I think the days of excluding WN from those rankings are dead and gone.
 
delta2ual
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:44 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
Do you have any reasons? Or is it just something that you like to say?

No I just like to say it.
Seriously, I feel like US would do well in OW. I'm not saying they're not doing well in Star. I just think Star almost has too many hubs close together on the East : EWR,PHL,IAD/DCA,CLT; whereas OW would be PHL, DCA, MIA, and to a lesser extent JFK/LGA.
In the West, Star has SFO,LAX,DEN,PHX and IAH/ORD in the middle. OW would be LAX,PHX with DFW/ORD in the middle. Again, this is just my opinion. I think US (and AA) would benefit with US in OW.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
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STT757
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:55 pm

I think if US is marketing themselves for a merger they might want to consider spinning off part of their operation, specifically PHX. I think US separating their PHX operation from the rest of their operation would make them more attractive, a smaller airline with fewer but stronger hubs would be more attractive to potential bidders. None of the discussed possible merger partners have any interest in PHX.

AS or F9 might possibly be interested in PHX. For AS it's a natural progression from the Pacific Northwest to the Desert Southwest. For F9 being in competition with WN in PHX might be more stable than being in competition with WN and UA at DEN.

That would leave US with CLT, DCA and PHL which are more desirable to AA, DL etc..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
kiwiandrew

RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:50 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 41):

I think if US is marketing themselves for a merger they might want to consider spinning off part of their operation, specifically PHX. I think US separating their PHX operation from the rest of their operation would make them more attractive, a smaller airline with fewer but stronger hubs would be more attractive to potential bidders. None of the discussed possible merger partners have any interest in PHX.



It's funny you should say that, I have wondered about a sort of demerger to make US more attractive to a potential suitor.

Two questions come to mind, firstly , who would want to take on PHX with WN so strong there? I think the only possibility would be B6 , I don't see anyone else who could make it work because of cost issues.

The second issue is, bearing in mind that the airline is headquartered in Arizona, it would be quite odd to spin off their 'home' hub. (less of a concern I guess if they were preparing to be merged into another player)

I think that if they were to spin off PHX and DCA to B6 then UA could theoretically be interested in acquiring the remainder, CLT, which to me is the jewel in the crown for US, would give the new UA a fortress hub serving what is currently a major blank area for them. PHL would not be so attractive being sandwiched in between IAD and EWR, and having strong WN competition, on the other hand, it still would bring in a strong base of additional frequent flyers. I realise that UA is still going through the process of completing one merger, but I think the opportunities that acquiring CLT would bring to the table would make it worth the hassle of going after a smaller dual hub US. On the other hand, while it may look like a fantastic network on paper, in reality, due to labour issues, it would probably turn into the mother of all integration battles the like of which has not been seen since the PeopleExpress/New York Air/CO/Frontier train wreck.

I can't see any other possibilities though ( except , obviously, continuing as a stand alone carrier, which, for the moment, I think is the most likely scenario) DL couldn't go after CLT when it is so close to ATL, IMHO, it would raise too many competition issues, and AA are in no position to take over anyone until they get their own house in order, I think that Republic Holdings also need to focus on getting what they currently have working before they tackle a target much bigger than themselves, and I really can't think of any other candidates in the short term if US decide to go down the merger path.
 
silentbob
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:05 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 41):
I think if US is marketing themselves for a merger they might want to consider spinning off part of their operation, specifically PHX.

That has been a fantasy of the East pilots since America West saved them from liquidation. Not going to happen.
 
Maverick623
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:22 pm

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 34):
They'll keep that situation going as long as they can

Hmm... that's funny. Last I checked, it was USAPA refusing to accept binding arbitration that put US in the spot where they a) get sued if they don't follow the Nicolau Award or b) get sued if they do.

Nice try, though.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
HPRamper
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RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:33 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 41):
I think if US is marketing themselves for a merger they might want to consider spinning off part of their operation, specifically PHX. I think US separating their PHX operation from the rest of their operation would make them more attractive, a smaller airline with fewer but stronger hubs would be more attractive to potential bidders. None of the discussed possible merger partners have any interest in PHX.

I don't think the presence of PHX in the network has anything to do with how attractive the airline would be to a suitor.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 41):
AS or F9 might possibly be interested in PHX. For AS it's a natural progression from the Pacific Northwest to the Desert Southwest. For F9 being in competition with WN in PHX might be more stable than being in competition with WN and UA at DEN.

I'm pretty sure yields at PHX are lower than at DEN. The best move for F9 would be to avoid WN, imho.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 42):
Two questions come to mind, firstly , who would want to take on PHX with WN so strong there? I think the only possibility would be B6 , I don't see anyone else who could make it work because of cost issues.

Nobody would. PHX would become a WN fortress with only hub service on other airlines. B6 does not really have low costs, either.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 42):
I think that if they were to spin off PHX and DCA to B6 then UA could theoretically be interested in acquiring the remainder, CLT, which to me is the jewel in the crown for US, would give the new UA a fortress hub serving what is currently a major blank area for them. PHL would not be so attractive being sandwiched in between IAD and EWR, and having strong WN competition,

CLT might be the crown jewel for UA, but not for anyone else. PHL doesn't have what I'd consider strong WN competition, and US has done well in resisting WN expansion there. That said, US won't be "spinning off" anything of value. DCA is now becoming a major player in the US network and is quite profitable.

Quoting silentbob (Reply 43):
That has been a fantasy of the East pilots since America West saved them from liquidation. Not going to happen.

I think the East pilots have a lot of fantasies they need to wake up from. Funny how badly they want away from the HP way of doing things, after America West saved their butts.
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11006
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: US In The Meantime...

Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:50 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 28):
Quoting Grid (Reply 26):
Weird then, that US Airways is the second-most complained about airline in the U.S. Of course, all the people who did not complain may be really, really, really satisfied with U.S. Airways.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201....html
Quoting Grid (Reply 36):
Good article, which covers only two months ... May and June (a year is 12 months) and does not compare those months to the previous year's months. Also two of the three categories it deals with are probably the floor for customers - on-time arrivals and lack of lost bags, which, I'll state again, is really the bare minimum people expect. Good that it also led in fewest customer complaints and hopefully it can sustain that accolade.

Did you look at the date of that year old story from Charlotte?

Quoting Grid (Reply 26):
Weird then, that US Airways is the second-most complained about airline in the U.S. Of course, all the people who did not complain may be really, really, really satisfied with U.S. Airways.

http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-...52047

#2 US Airways

1.73 complaints per 100,000 passengers

Flight issues and customer service remain major problems for this carrier. It’s routinely at the top of the barrel when it comes to complaints, despite the fact that it carries less than half the passengers that Southwest does.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 38):
Quoting cslusarc (Reply 33):
I could see some gently used newer build 767-300ERs coming onto the second hand market in the next 5 years from JL or NH. However the 332s that they have on order are more efficient and have more cargo potential.

The gap from the A321 to the A332 will be pretty sizable, and the lack of anything under the A332 size internationally will limit their opportunities long term. The 757's will eventually go - not much choice in the matter. The 762's the same. Can the routes that those planes fly support an A332? If not, then perhaps a smaller widebody might be a good investment. I understand that the A332 is more capable, but the current-build 763ER is a great plane and coudl probably do a good job as a 752/762 replacement.

While I agree the B-763ER would be a great aircraft for US, they won't order any new builds from Boeing.

US has financial difficulties , earnings (yoy) are down 67%, P/E ratio is 3.65 (which is actually good), but projected to be 4.11% by Dec. 2012, they have total cash of $2.25B, but their debt is at $4.34B. In other words, they owe more than they are worth. They have a profit margin of just 1.94% on an operating margin of 4.60%. They are bearly holding their heads above water.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=LCC+Key+Statistics
 
silentbob
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: US In The Meantime...

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:16 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 46):
they have total cash of $2.25B, but their debt is at $4.34B. In other words, they owe more than they are worth.

That is true of every major airline, with the possible exception of WN, from what I recall. And cash does not equal worth. In fact, having too much cash relative to the market cap of a business is generally considered a bad thing. You become ripe for a takeover and your own cash on hand is used by the buyer to pay for the transaction.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19046
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: US In The Meantime...

Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:18 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 35):
From PHL, the A332 could probably reach NRT with an acceptable payload,

I doubt it, especially westbound. PHL-NRT at 5870 nm is over 200 nm further than the current longest A332 nonstop, QF LAX-AKL, 5652 nm. And winds are often much stronger on North Pacific than on South Pacific routes.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

RE: US In The Meantime...

Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:36 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 46):
Did you look at the date of that year old story from Charlotte?

This article is from 2011:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....rticle_print&ID=1545783&highlight=

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....rticle_print&ID=1546974&highlight=

IIRC, they won the triple crown last year as well.
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343