September11
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A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:14 pm

I just can't believe this Delta 747-400 (N663US) is not that new... Build in 1988.

1989


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1997


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2007


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2011


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[Edited 2011-08-26 10:15:54]
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mogandoCI
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:17 pm

does DL fly 744 to NGO from NRT or from DTW ?
 
drerx7
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:22 pm

That's not that old by aircraft standards at all.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
Mir
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:22 pm

So I guess it's okay to put alcohol in the fuel tanks now?  

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
SPREE34
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:24 pm

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):

That's not that old by aircraft standards at all.

Especially a long haul machine. Lower cycles.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
delimit
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:25 pm

That's nothing. There was a DC-9 that was recently retired that was in its 40s if I recall.
 
desertjets
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:26 pm

Looks pretty good in the pre-bowling shoe colors too if I may add.

NW kept their original -100s and -200s for nearly 30 years. So no reason to expect DL to retire the 747s anytime soon.




And realizing what you think is a relatively new airplane is now 20+ years old is the same feeling you get when you are listening to a radio station's throwback hour and realizing that the song you really liked and still think is fresh is in fact THAT OLD.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
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falstaff
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:27 pm

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):
That's not that old by aircraft standards at all.


Still like new...

Quoting September11 (Thread starter):
I just can't believe this Delta 747-400 (N663US) is not that new


not a surprise really. I think NW was the launch customer for the -400.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
MSPNWA
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:29 pm

Yep, they're getting old. Getting close to 23 years. N663US has been in revenue service longer than any other Delta international widebody aircraft. Flying on 663 is definitely my airline passenger highlight so far.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 1):
does DL fly 744 to NGO from NRT or from DTW ?

From DTW.
 
na
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:30 pm

Actually 10 out of the 15 Delta 744s are older than 21 years, and they´ll easily will fly 5 years more and beyond.
The other 5 though are fairly young.
 
BD338
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:34 pm

How many hours & cycles on the frame? Is it close to a major check?

..given the state of the interior of one DL 744 I flew on last month, I think it must have been 21 years old as well and never updated since the day it was bought  
 
September11
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 7):
I think NW was the launch customer for the -400.

probably correct

Quoting desertjets (Reply 6):
Looks pretty good in the pre-bowling shoe colors too if I may add.

I second that

Quoting na (Reply 9):
The other 5 though are fairly young.

How old is the youngest one?
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isitsafenow
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:54 pm

NW was the launch customer of the 400. I flew N663US Feb 89 when it was on the MSP-PHX run a few weeks before it
went international. According to the Boeing manufacturers book, N663US was delivered months before N661US.
N661US was build FIRST. Apparently, there was some issues with N661US and that's why it was held up in delivery.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:02 pm

can't believe Boeing waited THIS long to even have a proper successor to 744 : 77W in 2003 and 748 in 2011/2012

if EK was a major airline back then we would've seen 747-500 by 1995 already
 
MSPNWA
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:14 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 11):
How old is the youngest one?

N676NW was delivered in April, 2002.
 
na
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:23 pm

Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 12):
N661US was build FIRST. Apparently, there was some issues with N661US and that's why it was held up in delivery.

N661US was the 744 prototype, and its refurbishment to airline standard was the only "issue" why it was delivered after the first five to NWA.
 
VC10DC10
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:24 pm

Quoting na (Reply 9):
Actually 10 out of the 15 Delta 744s are older than 21 years, and they´ll easily will fly 5 years more and beyond.
The other 5 though are fairly young.

Only 15? What happened to the 16th?
 
bonusonus
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:26 pm

Quoting desertjets (Reply 6):
Looks pretty good in the pre-bowling shoe colors too if I may add.

   That one looks good, and the most recent NW livery looks great on that a/c too.
 
burnsie28
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:45 pm

Quoting na (Reply 9):

Actually 10 out of the 15 Delta 744s are older than 21 years, and they´ll easily will fly 5 years more and beyond.
The other 5 though are fairly young.
Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 16):
Only 15? What happened to the 16th?

There are indeed 16, one is in temp storage until March.

Here are the 16 aircraft

N661US 08-DEC-89
N662US 13-MAR-89
N663US 26-JAN-89
N664US 28-APR-89
N665US 01-SEP-89
N666US 18-AUG-89
N667US 20-JUL-90
N668US 26-JUL-90
N669US 20-AUG-90
N670US 31-AUG-90
N671US 29-MAR-99
N672US 19-JUL-99
N673US 24-AUG-99
N674US 18-OCT-99 (In short term storage until March)
N675NW 13-MAR-02
N676NW 18-APR-02
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:52 pm

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):
That's not that old by aircraft standards at all.

No, that's kind of old. Just not old by ex-NW standards at all.
When I doubt... go running!
 
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RWA380
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:13 pm

The one in temp storage, why was that particular frame chosen as opposed to an older frame?
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
SEPilot
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:22 pm

I happened to be in DTW shortly after the 744 entered service, and saw a NW 744 at a gate. I don't remember which tail number it was, but it was within a few months of when they got their first one. I was quite pleased to see it.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
mike96
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:36 pm

Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 12):
N661US was build FIRST. Apparently, there was some issues with N661US and that's why it was held up in delivery.
safe

The first three 747-400s built were N661US,N662US,N663US. N661US had Rolls Royce engines on it at first, N662US had GE engines at first and N663US had Pratt & Whitney Engines on it. When Northwest went ahead and chose the PW engines N663US already had them so all that was need was a NWA interior. N663US was the first in service while 661 and 662 had their engines switched to PW4056s.

So their weren't any issues with 661 or 662, they just need to get a NWA interior and PW engines on them.
 
VC10DC10
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:36 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 18):

There are indeed 16, one is in temp storage until March.

Here are the 16 aircraft

Thanks, Burnsie -- much appreciated.

Interesting that NW's first ten 744s were delivered within only 20 months.
 
mike96
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:39 pm

You can check out some of my videos of these great old birds!


YouTube.com/maverick967
 
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ATA L1011
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:56 pm

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 19):
No, that's kind of old. Just not old by ex-NW standards at all

Agreed, Agreed  !
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:47 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 20):
The one in temp storage, why was that particular frame chosen as opposed to an older frame?

Usually the decision is based on maintenance schedules. It is likely that particular airframe had timed out on cycles and was (is) due a heavy maintenance check. Choosing that airframe allows them to defer the maintenance cost (several million dollars), it also prevents the airline from having to pull 2 aircraft out of service (because if this aircraft timed out it would have to be pulled for maintenance regardless and then returned to service and then another aircraft pulled for storage).
 
Dalmd88
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:47 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 20):
The one in temp storage, why was that particular frame chosen as opposed to an older frame?

Only 15 aircraft are needed to support the current schedule, including maintenance spares. At least one of the older airframes is due to be retired soon. So we burn up hours and cycles on that one and park the newer one until it is needed. This is the same reason there are some winglet 757 in storage.
 
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RWA380
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:10 pm

Thanx for the explanation of my question those answers totally make sense. Kinda like why I drive my old pickup more regularly than my newer car.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
CX747
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:44 pm

It's amazing to think that the first book I got on the 747 only had photos of models up to the 747-300. The -400 was just entering service!!! Heck, the 747-100 was featured heavily in that book. All in all, 21 years of service isn't that old. These birds have another 5-6 years of flying for Delta ahead of them. Then it will be off to the desert or another 5-6 years of operating for third world carriers etc. The 747-8 is a great aircraft but the 747-400 will always be my favorite.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
johnclipper
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:08 pm

Quoting mike96 (Reply 22):
Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 12):
N661US was build FIRST. Apparently, there was some issues with N661US and that's why it was held up in delivery.
safe

The first three 747-400s built were N661US,N662US,N663US. N661US had Rolls Royce engines on it at first, N662US had GE engines at first and N663US had Pratt & Whitney Engines on it. When Northwest went ahead and chose the PW engines N663US already had them so all that was need was a NWA interior. N663US was the first in service while 661 and 662 had their engines switched to PW4056s.

So their weren't any issues with 661 or 662, they just need to get a NWA interior and PW engines on them.

Don't think that is how it worked. These always had P&W on them. VR-HOO (B-HOO) was the first RR powered 747-400 used for certification and D-ABVB was the first with GE.
"Flown every aircraft since the Wright Flyer" (guys, if you take this literally, then you need to get a life...)
 
Western727
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:05 am

Quoting mike96 (Reply 22):
The first three 747-400s built were N661US,N662US,N663US. N661US had Rolls Royce engines on it at first,
Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 30):
These always had P&W on them.

Correct. They always had P&Ws. I remember being in high school in Seattle at the time and am almost 100% certain the CX bird was the first with RRs as JohnClipper points out. The GE bit I cannot recall though.
Jack @ AUS
 
Dldiamondboy
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:20 am

21 years is nothing. I flew on a DL DC-9-50 this morning from MDT-ATL that was at least 30 years old. The pilot must have been a ex Navy fighter pilot. He handled the plane very abruptly and landed it such that I thought he was trying to catch the wire.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:52 am

Heck, the DC-9-30s that DL retired last year were 42-43 years old.

That being said there are a number of D95, A320, 757, 763, MD88 aircraft that are older than the 744s.
Even the Saab 340 fleet that is being retired are newer (1996-1998 builds) than most of the 744 fleet.

These 744s can easily fly for 30 years if the economics justify it.

[Edited 2011-08-26 17:56:18]
 
Viscount724
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:59 am

Quoting na (Reply 15):
Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 12):
N661US was build FIRST. Apparently, there was some issues with N661US and that's why it was held up in delivery.

N661US was the 744 prototype, and its refurbishment to airline standard was the only "issue" why it was delivered after the first five to NWA.

It's very common that the first aircraft delivered to the launch carrier is not the first one built for that carrier.
 
BOAC911
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:54 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):
by aircraft standards at all.

yes, by aircraft standards. not international or first-world standards.
 
woodsboy
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:04 am

I find it hard to consider the 744 an "old bird" when it is still in production. 744s of today are more or less the same as they have been with minor upgrades and engine improvements and I mean minor! Since the 744 had an all new wing, an all new 2 pilot EFIS flightdeck and hundreds of other new systems it is still very much a current aircraft as far as technology goes. The thing that likely sets it apart from a passengers perspective as being possibly dated is the interior and overhead bins which haven't changed that much in the last 23 years.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:06 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 19):


No, that's kind of old. Just not old by ex-NW standards at all.

Negative. Take a look at the rest of Delta's fleet. There are 757s flying around the country with other carriers that are older by several years compared to this young blood. They could fly them for another 20 years or so if they wanted because the average cycles per year is so low. Same thing with a 763ER (many around the world are getting up in age),

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 27):
Only 15 aircraft are needed to support the current schedule, including maintenance spares. At least one of the older airframes is due to be retired soon. So we burn up hours and cycles on that one and park the newer one until it is needed. This is the same reason there are some winglet 757 in storage.

  

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 28):
Thanx for the explanation of my question those answers totally make sense. Kinda like why I drive my old pickup more regularly than my newer car.

Exactly. If you knew you would be getting rid of your truck in 2 years, you would drive it till it's wheels fell off too.

Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 35):
yes, by aircraft standards. not international or first-world standards.

Sure, I guess...
What gets measured gets done.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:09 am

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 36):

I find it hard to consider the 744 an "old bird" when it is still in production.

Except of course that it isn't still in production, IIRC the last 744 produced was delivered nearly 2 years ago.
 
stratosphere
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:53 am

Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 12):
NW was the launch customer of the 400. I flew N663US Feb 89 when it was on the MSP-PHX run a few weeks before it

Thats when I flew on it 6303 was the ship number I always when I worked for NW flew on any new a/c we acquired didn't get first class though. Also flew from DTW to SAN when we first got the A320 also.
 
Viscount724
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:11 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 38):
Quoting woodsboy (Reply 36):

I find it hard to consider the 744 an "old bird" when it is still in production.

Except of course that it isn't still in production, IIRC the last 744 produced was delivered nearly 2 years ago.

The last 744 built was the -400ERF freighter below, one of two built for LoadAir Cargo of Kuwait. But they didn't put them into service and both aircraft were delivered to the desert (Marana) for storage in late 2009. Does anyone know whether those aircraft are in service now, and with what carrier? There was some speculation in an earlier thread that TG may acquire them, but that appears not to have happened.


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More on the last two 744s here.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...elivers-last-of-original-747s.html

The last passenger 744 built is the one below, delivered more than 6 years ago (April 2005) to China Airlines.


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rwessel
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:11 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 13):
can't believe Boeing waited THIS long to even have a proper successor to 744 : 77W in 2003 and 748 in 2011/2012

if EK was a major airline back then we would've seen 747-500 by 1995 already

Boeing was shopping around the -500X and -600X in 1996. Couldn't get anyone to bite.
 
CXB77L
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:34 am

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 36):
I find it hard to consider the 744 an "old bird" when it is still in production.

While I share the same sentiment about finding it hard to consider the 744 as "old", I should point out that it is no longer in production.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 35):
The thing that likely sets it apart from a passengers perspective as being possibly dated is the interior and overhead bins which haven't changed that much in the last 23 years.

Since the introduction of the 744ER in 2002, the Boeing Signature Interior was made available as an option:


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Quoting rwessel (Reply 41):
Boeing was shopping around the -500X and -600X in 1996. Couldn't get anyone to bite.

Incidentally, does anyone know why?

[Edited 2011-08-27 01:35:39]
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
mir2069
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:52 am

I am pretty sure 2 are owned and 14 leased,so when the lease is up they will either replace with 777 or 748.
 
na
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:08 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 40):
The last 744 built was the -400ERF freighter below, one of two built for LoadAir Cargo of Kuwait. But they didn't put them into service and both aircraft were delivered to the desert (Marana) for storage in late 2009. Does anyone know whether those aircraft are in service now, and with what carrier? There was some speculation in an earlier thread that TG may acquire them, but that appears not to have happened.

No news on these two. Very odd that they are parked up since two years, while all used 744Fs coming to the market are being snapped up in short time and 744 pax are busily being converted all the time. Perhaps Loadair still plans to start and pays fees, so those planes are maybe not up for sale. I havent heard that they are being offered to someone.
 
FlySSC
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:25 pm

Quoting September11 (Thread starter):
I just can't believe this Delta 747-400 (N663US) is not that new... Build in 1988.

Air France's B744 F-GEXA began services with UTA almost 22 years ago on September 22 1989.
Will be retires from service at thé end or this year 2011.
 
Transpac787
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:06 pm

Quoting mir2069 (Reply 43):
I am pretty sure 2 are owned and 14 leased,so when the lease is up they will either replace with 777 or 748.

Close, but 4 are owned and 12 are leased.
 
pliersinsight
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:29 pm

So I read this:

Quoting BD338 (Reply 10):
..given the state of the interior of one DL 744 I flew on last month, I think it must have been 21 years old as well and never updated since the day it was bought

Then I read this:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 45):
Air France's B744 F-GEXA began services with UTA almost 22 years ago on September 22 1989.

And am now obligated to write "So that means it has been 22 years since the exterior Air France's plane was washed".*



*Only because it is a.net tradition that someone has to say Air France hasn't washed their planes in X years every time the issue of the aircraft age/appearance comes up.
 
EI1989
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:53 pm

It's the same age as me, so it's not that old at all  In all seriousness though, if an aircraft is well maintained I see no problem with such a bird still appearing in the skies. I think it's a testament to the engineers and mechinics who designed these aircraft that they can fly for so long, all it takes is a little attention and care when needs be. It'll be interesting to see with new generation of aircraft will we be saying the same kind of things about their longevity 20-30 years from now. But that is some time off yet I guess.
The trouble with flying: We always have to return to airports.
 
drerx7
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RE: A Delta 747-400 Is Over 21 Years Old!

Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:15 pm

Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 35):
yes, by aircraft standards. not international or first-world standards.

That's B.S. In terms of age the aircraft is not old by any standards - especially when aircraft cycles is more relevant than chronological age. Now if you are adding your comments from the peanut gallery in regards to accoutremonts, then I'd begrudgingly agree.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised

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