LAXintl
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Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:18 pm

Effective March 2, 2012 Cathay Pacific will increase its LAX service from 17 weekly to 21 weekly.

New schedule - all operated on 77W will be.

CX884 HKG-LAX 1305-0940
CX882 HKG-LAX 1625-1255
CX880 HKG-LAX 2345-2015

CX885 LAX-HKG 1125-1845+1
CX883 LAX-HKG 2220-0545+2
CX881 LAX-HKG 0005-0730+1


Press release:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Cathay...ly-Three-bw-50871162.html?x=0&.v=1
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747400sp
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:50 pm

3 77W, hopely one of those flights, will be an A380 or B747-8I in the future.   
 
yeogeo
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:53 pm

The juggernaut that is CX continues to add frequency in its markets: they have ULH practically down to an art form.
Very impressive!

yeo
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FSDan
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:06 am

So by then CX's US service will be up to:

SFO: 2x daily
LAX: 3x daily
ORD: 1x daily
JFK: 3x daily nonstop + 1x daily via YVR

Not bad at all...

Out of interest, does anyone know what the primary business drivers are between L.A. and Hong Kong?
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lax777lr
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:55 am

CX is clearly telling Skyteam and Star Alliance "don't even think about it again!"
 
KFlyer
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:00 am

Any idea if one of these will be operated by the 77G config ?
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cloudyapple
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:46 am

More like Cathay RESTORING the third LAX flight. They are going back to the old schedule which was in effect until the end of S08.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
CX711
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:26 am

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 6):


There was some earlier speculation that CX may add a 2nd daily flight to ORD soon after the first flight is inaugurated, and also possible an extra non-stop to JFK. Has there been any more news?
 
flythere
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:27 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 3):
Out of interest, does anyone know what the primary business drivers are between L.A. and Hong Kong?

Not only vast chinese community in Southern California, but also high-end travel between LAX and HKG. Also a large group of Hong Kong students in UCs, USC and other community college, plus some connecting pax via both ends at HKG and LAX.

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 5):
Any idea if one of these will be operated by the 77G config ?

Never with 77G but they will be all operated by 77D soon with F and new J product.
 
laca773
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:05 am

Quoting flythere (Reply 8):

Never with 77G but they will be all operated by 77D soon with F and new J product.

I think they will operate this 77W type into LAX as I can't see CX not offering their new Premium Y product on a longahaul flight like LAX. The same goes for SFO/JFK/YVR/ORD once they have enough of the 77Ws re-configured with the new P J Y+ cabins.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:59 am

Quoting flythere (Reply 8):
Not only vast chinese community in Southern California, but also high-end travel between LAX and HKG. Also a large group of Hong Kong students in UCs, USC and other community college, plus some connecting pax via both ends at HKG and LAX.

Don't forget the Indians.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 9):
I think they will operate this 77W type into LAX as I can't see CX not offering their new Premium Y product on a longahaul flight like LAX. The same goes for SFO/JFK/YVR/ORD once they have enough of the 77Ws re-configured with the new P J Y+ cabins.

They may operate a 4-class B77W into LAX but I don't expect a 3-class aircraft without First.

Quoting CX711 (Reply 7):
There was some earlier speculation that CX may add a 2nd daily flight to ORD soon after the first flight is inaugurated, and also possible an extra non-stop to JFK. Has there been any more news?

These remain rumours.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
netjetsintl
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:17 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 3):
So by then CX's US service will be up to:

SFO: 2x daily
LAX: 3x daily
ORD: 1x daily
JFK: 3x daily nonstop + 1x daily via YVR

I still think is out of wack that JFK is getting one more frequency than LAX. Unless I'm missing something, there is no way in hell the JFK-HKG market is larger than LAX-HKG. no way
 
qf002
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:31 pm

Quoting Netjetsintl (Reply 11):
Unless I'm missing something, there is no way in hell the JFK-HKG market is larger than LAX-HKG. no way

JFK and HKG are two of the biggest financial hubs in the world -- a lot (like a lot) of business travel between the two, and it pretty much has the choice of 4 daily CX flights or the single daily UA out of EWR...
 
CX711
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:45 pm

YVR was also 3x daily just before 2008. Any talk of the third daily being brought back?
 
FSDan
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:10 pm

Quoting Netjetsintl (Reply 11):
I still think is out of wack that JFK is getting one more frequency than LAX. Unless I'm missing something, there is no way in hell the JFK-HKG market is larger than LAX-HKG. no way

JFK-HKG connects the biggest banking hub in North America (and the Western Hemisphere) with the biggest banking hub in Asia. New York, London, and Hong Kong are consistently ranked as the top three financial centers in the world, so to me it's not surprising to have so much capacity there. Also, New York has a huge ethnic Chinese population as well, though perhaps not as big as the L.A. area. Also don't forget that the JFK-YVR-HKG doesn't really count as a full fourth daily frequency as far as the local market is concerned. I'm sure the YVR-HKG segment has far more Vancouver-originating passengers than New York-originating passengers...

Quoting qf002 (Reply 12):
JFK and HKG are two of the biggest financial hubs in the world -- a lot (like a lot) of business travel between the two, and it pretty much has the choice of 4 daily CX flights or the single daily UA out of EWR...


  
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RayChuang
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:05 pm

This type of frequency makes me scratch my head on my CX hasn't ordered the A380-800 yet. The extra capacity offered by the A388 would certainly be welcome on the HKG-LHR, HKG-LAX and possibly HKG-SYD routes.
 
ag92
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:24 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 15):
This type of frequency makes me scratch my head on my CX hasn't ordered the A380-800 yet. The extra capacity offered by the A388 would certainly be welcome on the HKG-LHR, HKG-LAX and possibly HKG-SYD routes.

The extra capacity would also lead to lower frequency, and Business Travelers prefer frequency. Now if there is a lack of capacity a la LHR, that's where the A380 makes sense
 
sstsomeday
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:12 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 3):
JFK: 3x daily nonstop + 1x daily via YVR

I wonder how this is profitable? There isn't 5th freedom between YVR and JFK is there? This means that they have to have empty seats on that leg. I realize this happened a lot a generation or two ago, but I can't see how an airline can afford this type of route now. This is unlike Air New Zealand who have a transfer operation in LAX; i.e. converging A/C.
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LAXintl
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:25 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 3):
Out of interest, does anyone know what the primary business drivers are between L.A. and Hong Kong?

Lots of beyond connections to places like Vietnam, Philippines, PRC and even some to India.
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airlineaddict
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:28 pm

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17):

Quoting FSDan (Reply 3):
JFK: 3x daily nonstop + 1x daily via YVR

I wonder how this is profitable? There isn't 5th freedom between YVR and JFK is there? This means that they have to have empty seats on that leg. I realize this happened a lot a generation or two ago, but I can't see how an airline can afford this type of route now. This is unlike Air New Zealand who have a transfer operation in LAX; i.e. converging A/C.


Actually, fifth freedom is in place. PR has a similar arrangement between YVR and LAS

Back on topic, I agree that this is a shot across the bow to UA and DL on any ambitions to re-start LAX to HKG. It would be interesting to see a 787 run LAX HKG on UA...
 
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RWA380
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:31 pm

When I was working as a travel agent in SFO, we sold many CX tickets, and the destinations were as varied as the ethnicity of our rather loyal clients. CX also sells lots of bulk rate or wholesale seats allowing all kinds of fare sensitive passengers fill their planes, which is how I'm guessing they can semd so many planes a day to these destinations. Yes premium flying is what pays for the operation costs, and since there is that huge O & D premium market, this makes filling the back end easier for their multiple dalies.
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vincewy
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:36 pm

Quoting ag92 (Reply 16):

The extra capacity would also lead to lower frequency, and Business Travelers prefer frequency. Now if there is a lack of capacity a la LHR, that's where the A380 makes sense

For now 773 works perfectly for CX until they can't add more flights. It'll be a while before this happens.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17):
There isn't 5th freedom between YVR and JFK is there?

Yes
 
FSDan
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:37 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 20):
and since there is that huge O & D premium market

Is the premium market on LAX-HKG as big as the premium market on SFO-HKG? San Francisco is the primary Financial center of the West Coast, so I can see why there would be lots of premium traffic on SFO-HKG, but does L.A. have the same kind of banking traffic to fill up the front of the plane?
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cloudyapple
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:41 pm

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17):
There isn't 5th freedom between YVR and JFK is there?

Cathay has full fifth freedom on this segment.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
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RWA380
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:41 pm

LA does have the west coast stock exchange.
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LAXintl
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:18 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 22):
Is the premium market on LAX-HKG as big as the premium market on SFO-HKG?

Keep in mind, LA regions travel market is over 2x (closer to 3x if you want to add San Diego in) the total size of SF Bay Area.

While LA regions propensity rate of travel is lower than the Bay Area, and the average income is also a bit lower, the region has lots more bodies which includes a hell of a lot of folks with money, and huge ethnic travel demand.

LA also has its own industries that drive business travel demand. Things like being the largest manufacturing center in the US (yes sounds amazing, you’d think it would be a gray Eastern city), entertainment and media, financial, law, investment, engineering, aerospace and other professional fields. And off course LA is America's largest trade port.

Ultimately its home or work for almost 18mil people that have places and people to come and go from.

Its the same reason why many foreign airlines (esp Asia-Pacific) operate higher frequencies to LA opposed to the Bay Area as its simply a larger market.

[Edited 2011-08-27 09:30:16]
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CV880
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:23 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 24):
LA does have the west coast stock exchange.

LA has a branch of the Pacific Stock Exchange which is headquartered in SFO.
 
etoile
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:49 pm

Quoting CV880 (Reply 26):
LA has a branch of the Pacific Stock Exchange which is headquartered in SFO.

The PCX has been kaputt for years. The former site of the PCX in SF is now an Equinox healthclub.
 
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spinkid
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:26 pm

Don't forget the manufacting that takes place just across the border from Hong Kong in mainland China. I just returned from Hong Kong and was amazed at how big the ports are there.
 
757engr
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:55 pm

Quoting Netjetsintl (Reply 11):
So by then CX's US service will be up to:

SFO: 2x daily

CX's 2 SFO daily round trips are 747-400s. I would like them to up this to 3 daily using the Y+ configured 777Ws when they become available.
 
FSDan
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:16 pm

Quoting 757ENGR (Reply 29):
CX's 2 SFO daily round trips are 747-400s. I would like them to up this to 3 daily using the Y+ configured 777Ws when they become available.

By the time CX adds the 3rd daily LAX flight, one of the two HKG-SFO flights will be on a 77W three times a week (according to Cathay's website).
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:11 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 15):
This type of frequency makes me scratch my head on my CX hasn't ordered the A380-800 yet.

CX is a major freight carrier and the ability to haul about 18t of cargo with a full passenger load from HKG/JFK on an average day with the 77W is pretty attractive.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:13 am

Quoting CX711 (Reply 7):
Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 6):


There was some earlier speculation that CX may add a 2nd daily flight to ORD soon after the first flight is inaugurated, and also possible an extra non-stop to JFK. Has there been any more news?

Still being looked into. There are plenty of places we could easily expand to at the moment but a lack of aircraft and a lack of pilots is holding back growth to a level which is more restrained, and in all fairness a rate of growth which Cathay has always maintained through its history. They have never been one to go mad and add flights 'Emirates-style'.

Quoting Netjetsintl (Reply 11):
Quoting FSDan (Reply 3):
So by then CX's US service will be up to:

SFO: 2x daily
LAX: 3x daily
ORD: 1x daily
JFK: 3x daily nonstop + 1x daily via YVR

I still think is out of wack that JFK is getting one more frequency than LAX. Unless I'm missing something, there is no way in hell the JFK-HKG market is larger than LAX-HKG. no way

Its the quality of passengers and not the quantity. JFK is regularly overbooked in first and business class and people get downgraded to lower classes. Not a good thing but it illustrates how 'premium' the passengers are from New York. Ticket prices are expensive and we all know the money makers for the airline are the people up front; the more of those the better! LAX may have quantity but there is far less premium traffic that JFK. When you are short of aircraft and planes, or course you are going to prioritise on adding flights to where the premium traffic is!

I think if crew and aircraft were not limiting, we could easily see SFO 3x, JFK 5x, LAX3-4x, ORD2x plus another couple of US destinations which they are looking at.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17):
Quoting FSDan (Reply 3):
JFK: 3x daily nonstop + 1x daily via YVR

I wonder how this is profitable? There isn't 5th freedom between YVR and JFK is there? This means that they have to have empty seats on that leg. I realize this happened a lot a generation or two ago, but I can't see how an airline can afford this type of route now. This is unlike Air New Zealand who have a transfer operation in LAX; i.e. converging A/C.

It is quite profitable apparently. I have been told (but not checked myself) that there are not a lot of choices of flying between YVR-JFK and the CX service offering is far superior to that offered by the competition....an Asian 777 as opposed to a 'domestic' N.American narrowbody. Having said all that, they have been looking into the possibility of changing the YVR-JFK link to go YVR-somewhere else and using it to launch a new destination too far to do it non-stop, and then launching yet another non-stop HKG-JFK to replace the CX888/889.
 
yeogeo
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:25 am

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 32):
[CX] have been looking into the possibility of changing the YVR-JFK link to go YVR-somewhere else and using it to launch a new destination too far to do it non-stop

Hummm...    like HKG-YVR-GRU perhaps?
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vincewy
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:35 am

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 32):
Having said all that, they have been looking into the possibility of changing the YVR-JFK link to go YVR-somewhere else and using it to launch a new destination too far to do it non-stop, and then launching yet another non-stop HKG-JFK to replace the CX888/889

I'm guessing HKG-YVR-DFW, I seriously doubt MIA will work out better than DFW.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 32):
Its the quality of passengers and not the quantity. JFK is regularly overbooked in first and business class and people get downgraded to lower classes.

Without logistical constraints, will A380 work out very well for HKG-JFK? I'd think having all C in the upper deck just like KE would match the demand (opportunity costs here since demands exceeds supply)
 
airfrancejfk
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:49 am

Quoting Netjetsintl (Reply 11):
I still think is out of wack that JFK is getting one more frequency than LAX. Unless I'm missing something, there is no way in hell the JFK-HKG market is larger than LAX-HKG. no way

Key word is connections connectons connections. Each of the 4 JFK flights carry a very different set of clientele. 2 flights are heavy with connections to mainland China, the Philippines, Malaysia, etc. One is mainly Hong Kong passengers and the YVR flight is concentrated on JFK-YVR local traffic.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:51 am

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 32):
they have been looking into the possibility of changing the YVR-JFK link to go YVR-somewhere else and using it to launch a new destination too far to do it non-stop, and then launching yet another non-stop HKG-JFK to replace the CX888/889.

CX has been looking into serving MEX with an intermediate stop. CX would like to use LAX or SFO as the stopover, but the Mexican government is never going to grant fifth freedom rights. Perhaps YVR would be the perfect stopover for a new MEX service?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
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RWA380
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:55 am

Just like JL did, NRT-YVR-MEX huh? Guess they could get 5th freedom YVR-MEX.
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washingtonian
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:01 am

Quoting CX711 (Reply 7):
There was some earlier speculation that CX may add a 2nd daily flight to ORD soon after the first flight is inaugurated, and also possible an extra non-stop to JFK. Has there been any more news?

Wouldn't it make more sense to launch HKG-DFW instead of a 2nd daily ORD flight?

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 32):
Having said all that, they have been looking into the possibility of changing the YVR-JFK link to go YVR-somewhere else and using it to launch a new destination too far to do it non-stop, and then launching yet another non-stop HKG-JFK to replace the CX888/889.

Wowza, that would be incredible if HKG-JFK went to 4X daily nonstop! Keep in mind that this is a relatively new route! In the early 2000s, Cathay's only JFK flight was HKG-YVR-JFK!!
 
flythere
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:13 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 15):
This type of frequency makes me scratch my head on my CX hasn't ordered the A380-800 yet. The extra capacity offered by the A388 would certainly be welcome on the HKG-LHR, HKG-LAX and possibly HKG-SYD routes.
Quoting ag92 (Reply 16):
The extra capacity would also lead to lower frequency, and Business Travelers prefer frequency. Now if there is a lack of capacity a la LHR, that's where the A380 makes sense

     
Other than choice for customers, frequency can also means greater flexibility in the operation, touchwood any AOG of one flight some pax can be put on other flights of the same day. Also smaller group of pax is much easier to be handled than 400+ on a A388. The 388 operators are grumbling about the reliability of 388 indeed and they gone tech from time to time.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17):
There isn't 5th freedom between YVR and JFK is there?

There is full 5th freedom rights. A point to note is that CX is the ONLY operator between YVR and JFK, so CX has the advantage. AC and CO all operate from EWR so we are talking about another catchment area there.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 30):
By the time CX adds the 3rd daily LAX flight, one of the two HKG-SFO flights will be on a 77W three times a week (according to Cathay's website).

By the end of Mar when summer time begins, it will be back to 2 daily 744 as soon in the timetable.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 32):
It is quite profitable apparently. I have been told (but not checked myself) that there are not a lot of choices of flying between YVR-JFK and the CX service offering is far superior to that offered by the competition....an Asian 777 as opposed to a 'domestic' N.American narrowbody. Having said all that, they have been looking into the possibility of changing the YVR-JFK link to go YVR-somewhere else and using it to launch a new destination too far to do it non-stop, and then launching yet another non-stop HKG-JFK to replace the CX888/889.

Not likely. The 5th freedom is quite specific in the sense that it is origin-destination defined, so it is never an easy work to convert, let alone the opportunity cost of giving up the performing YVR-JFK leg.
Also taking away 888/9 YVR-JFK leg would means a disruption to current JFK schedules, which is highly not desirable.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:39 am

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 23):
Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17):
There isn't 5th freedom between YVR and JFK is there?

Cathay has full fifth freedom on this segment.

CX's first US destination around 1979 was a SFO tag-on from YVR,with 5th freedom rights YVR-SFO.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 37):
Just like JL did, NRT-YVR-MEX huh? Guess they could get 5th freedom YVR-MEX.

I expect CX carries far more 5th freedom passengers YVR-JFK-YVR than they would every carry YVR-MEX-YVR where AC's daily A319 nonstop seems to be enough to meet the demand. Also remember that JL only operated MEX via YVR twice a week and I highly doubt CX could justify daily service to MEX. Does a HKG-Mexico bilateral even exist? I doubt it.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:54 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 40):
I expect CX carries far more 5th freedom passengers YVR-JFK-YVR than they would every carry YVR-MEX-YVR where AC's daily A319 nonstop seems to be enough to meet the demand.

That is true, and the visa issue is not helping. In the past, MX had 9 or 10 weeklies using a combo of A319s and 18s, plus JL's 2x weekly service. Demand has collapsed because of the visa requirement.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 40):
I highly doubt CX could justify daily service to MEX.

I don't think CX wants to do MEX daily, and I don't think anybody here has suggested it. Just like JL had its YVR flight continue to MEX 2x a week, CX could do the same (2 or 3 times).

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 40):
Does a HKG-Mexico bilateral even exist?

No idea. I would have to find out. I would not be surprised that we do, though. Mexico has bilaterals with the U.A.E. and Australia even though there is no passenger air service between the two of them and Mexico. I believe you can add South Korea to that list too.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Viscount724
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:22 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 41):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 40):
I highly doubt CX could justify daily service to MEX.

I don't think CX wants to do MEX daily, and I don't think anybody here has suggested it. Just like JL had its YVR flight continue to MEX 2x a week, CX could do the same (2 or 3 times).



The problem with any 2x or 3x weekly service is inefficient use of crews since they're going to be spending up to 3 or 4 nights in a hotel. And such infrequent service then becomes unattractive for the 5th freedom market.
 
FSDan
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:54 am

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 32):
Having said all that, they have been looking into the possibility of changing the YVR-JFK link to go YVR-somewhere else and using it to launch a new destination too far to do it non-stop, and then launching yet another non-stop HKG-JFK to replace the CX888/889.

I wonder if a HKG-YVR-MIA is in the cards... Could that support daily service on a 77W? I have no info, but I would guess that the fifth freedom market is not very big.
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EddieDude
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:01 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
The problem with any 2x or 3x weekly service is inefficient use of crews since they're going to be spending up to 3 or 4 nights in a hotel.

Agree with you. But if CX really wants to launch MEX, it has to be 2 or 3x weekly service at first. There is not demand for more. BA flies 4x weekly and they won't pull out of the market because their crews spend more than one night in Mexico City. UX and AR are other carriers that do not have daily service. TACA Peru is in the same situation I think.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
MAH4546
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:02 am

Quoting vincewy (Reply 34):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 32):
Having said all that, they have been looking into the possibility of changing the YVR-JFK link to go YVR-somewhere else and using it to launch a new destination too far to do it non-stop, and then launching yet another non-stop HKG-JFK to replace the CX888/889

I'm guessing HKG-YVR-DFW, I seriously doubt MIA will work out better than DFW.


DFWHKG can be done non-stop, easily. MIAHKG is a larger market than DFWHKG, not to mention a very high-fare market, with an average fare ~70% higher than LAXHKG or SFOHKG (DFWHKG is also a higher fare market than LAXHKG or SFOHKG). Swire Pacific, which happens to be the largest shareholder of CX, drives a lot of the traffic that makes MIAHKG a premium-heavy market.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 43):
I wonder if a HKG-YVR-MIA is in the cards... Could that support daily service on a 77W? I have no info, but I would guess that the fifth freedom market is not very big.

MIAYVR is a good sized local market, albeit low yielding. Air Canada did use to fly it in the early decade, first a daily A319 that was a victim of 9/11, and then weekend 763 service for a few years.

MIAHKG is one of the busiest Florida-Asia city pairs and high-yielding, but nothing in the CX fleet can do it non-stop. It can support service considering both are OW hubs, the strong premium demand, and the likely local market stimulation service would create, that over a five year period would likely see demand triple. Miami and Hong Kong have very
strong business ties because both are such important transportation logistic hubs. Cathay Pacific flies to Miami, but only cargo service. It's A359s will be able to do it non-stop when they arrive, though.

It's pretty impressive how easily U.S.-Asia marketS see demand stimulated due to direct air service. I don't think people would believe how huge the ATLICN market is, but it's larger than BOSFCO.

[Edited 2011-08-27 20:15:09]
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flythere
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:46 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 41):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 40):
Does a HKG-Mexico bilateral even exist?

No idea. I would have to find out. I would not be surprised that we do, though. Mexico has bilaterals with the U.A.E. and Australia even though there is no passenger air service between the two of them and Mexico. I believe you can add South Korea to that list too.

After some search on our side, there is one ASA between Hong Kong and Mexico. Cheers on that!
http://www.legislation.gov.hk/ASAMEXICOe.pdf

It states clearly that the flight can stop by a point enroute MEX but without 5th freedom.

I would not be surprise to see initially 4 weekly or 5 weekly HKG-MEX-GDL-HKG when A359 is delivered. A stop at YVR is for sure welcome but it need a renewal of ASA.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):


The problem with any 2x or 3x weekly service is inefficient use of crews since they're going to be spending up to 3 or 4 nights in a hotel. And such infrequent service then becomes unattractive for the 5th freedom market.

Absolutely correct. Especially for CX. In CX network, there is only one route that operates 3 weekly or less, that is the 3 weekly HKG-DME. The rest most are multiple daily or daily. A scattered few Indian and Middle-East routes are 4 or 5 weekly. Frequency is a key for premium airline.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 45):
MIAHKG is a larger market than DFWHKG, not to mention a very high-fare market, with an average fare ~70% higher than LAXHKG or SFOHKG (DFWHKG is also a higher fare market than LAXHKG or SFOHKG). Swire Pacific, which happens to be the largest shareholder of CX, drives a lot of the traffic that makes MIAHKG a premium-heavy market.

There hasnt yet a suitable aircraft to do MIA-HKG without severe payload restriction. See how CX will play around the A359 to make it feasible, if ever.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:19 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
The problem with any 2x or 3x weekly service is inefficient use of crews since they're going to be spending up to 3 or 4 nights in a hotel. And such infrequent service then becomes unattractive for the 5th freedom market.

If it makes good money then the crew is not really an issue. If it is that marginal that the crew makes the difference between profitability and not, then CX would never launch the route. They usually don't launch a route unless they are very sure there is PLENTY of money to be made. Thats why so often after launching a new route, they add flights and become so established on that route. At the moment we have Airbus crews staying in JNB for 7 nights before heading home! 2-3 nights somewhere would not be enough to make them not launch the route.
 
Avianca
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:32 am

Quoting flythere (Reply 46):
There hasnt yet a suitable aircraft to do MIA-HKG without severe payload restriction. See how CX will play around the A359 to make it feasible, if ever.

it they would restric the cargo to 0, could be a 777 make it with full pax load nonstop HKG-MIA-HKG?
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RE: Cathay Ups LAX Service To 3x Daily

Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:50 am

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 33):

Would a HKG-YVR-GRU really work? What plane would be best to make YVR-GRU non-stop w/o penalty? Just curious if this suggestion would even be remotely realistic. I am expecting 5th freedom would be the deal breaker if they ever did this. There currently is no service that I know of from YVR to S. America at all, not that I expect there is much O/D in that market or it would exist. Is it also the quickest way from SE Asia to S America? I know MH does or did it via JNB/CPT.
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