cx828
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Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:14 am

Boeing will introduce a 5,000lb increase in the maximum zero fuel weight of the 777-300ER, providing an equivalent payload increase of 20 to 25 passengers. The General Electric GE90-115B1 engines that power the 777-300ER will increase thrust by 1%-2.5% as part of an Enhanced Thrust Management (ETM) package designed to increase take off weight at higher-altitude airports, and will be available in both new production and as a retrofit.

Can CX use the newer version of 77W to launch HKG-DFW (of course, if approved) to avoid the penalty of the payload as Emirate did on DXB-LAX (they carry 10 abreasts can did it)??
 
BMI727
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:22 am

Quoting cx828 (Thread starter):
Can CX use the newer version of 77W to launch HKG-DFW (of course, if approved) to avoid the penalty of the payload as Emirate did on DXB-LAX (they carry 10 abreasts can did it)??

I'd say that there is a good chance they could pull it off with an economically viable load, though things could get dicey in poor weather. You'd likely see a routing like sometimes happens on HKG-JFK where there is a more southerly routing eastbound and a polar routing westbound to take advantage of winds.
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jfk777
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:46 pm

IF there was ever a route AA should fly those new 777-300ER they are waiting for its Hong Kong. Since Cathay has every other gateway AA could make it work from DFW would be the one left with no HKG flight.
 
dfwdfw
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:12 am

I think AA and CX should both fly to DFW from HKG kind of like BA and AA to Heathrow.
 
cx828
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:26 am

what i mean is can the route still profitable with the extra 5000ibs increase can offset payload penalized ??
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:58 am

Is there any fuel burn improvement in the package?

Quoting cx828 (Thread starter):
Can CX use the newer version of 77W to launch HKG-DFW (of course, if approved) to avoid the penalty of the payload as Emirate did on DXB-LAX (they carry 10 abreasts can did it)

I suspect EK is the launch customer for the improvement with a proven need for better payload at range. Somehow I suspect the 'hot' part of hot/high thrust improvement is required too.

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zeke
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:00 am

An increase in MZFW does nothing on a ULH flight (i.e. 7000 ish nm like HKG-DFW) when the aircraft is either MTOW or fuel volume limited.

The increase in MZFW will be beneficial more for flights 5000 ish nm

This is a direct counter to the A350-1000 payload/thrust increase announced at PAS11.
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PVG
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:31 am

Quoting cx828 (Thread starter):
Boeing will introduce a 5,000lb increase in the maximum zero fuel weight of the 777-300ER, providing an equivalent payload increase of 20 to 25 passengers. The General Electric GE90-115B1 engines that power the 777-300ER will increase thrust by 1%-2.5% as part of an Enhanced Thrust Management (ETM) package designed to increase take off weight at higher-altitude airports, and will be available in both new production and as a retrofit.

Any chance that we start to see these on the HKG/JNB route?
 
jfk777
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:14 pm

Quoting dfwdfw (Reply 3):
I think AA and CX should both fly to DFW from HKG kind of like BA and AA to Heathrow.

Both airlines flying from DFW to Hong Kong is very ambitious. AT some point AA needs to fly to HKG, since Cathay already flies from JFK, Chicago, SFO and LAX, CX needs to allow one city for AA.
 
qf002
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:37 pm

Quoting PVG (Reply 7):
Any chance that we start to see these on the HKG/JNB route?

I doubt that a current 77W would an issue with JNB. They turn up there from time to time as it is...
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:19 pm

There is very little difference between DFW-HKG and JFK-HKG .Probably less than 100nm in airways terms. CX are on the low end of the 77W scale so far as passenger load and DOW are concerned. They are not operating the type out to it's limits.
I notice that yesterday both their ORD and JFK -HKG flights operated eastbound on an airways track of 7357 and 7358nm respectively in 15hr 16min which gave a tail wind of ~12k. and comfortably inside the timetable times of 15h 25m and 15h 55m respectively
 
flythere
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:24 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
Both airlines flying from DFW to Hong Kong is very ambitious. AT some point AA needs to fly to HKG, since Cathay already flies from JFK, Chicago, SFO and LAX, CX needs to allow one city for AA.

The reasons for AA not coming to HKG yet are that AA can have a "for-sure" gain by selling tickets on CX metal under AA codeshare but operating AA own's 77W not only need approval from the pilot union, but also not guarantee profit as the AA's yield advantage over UA for the same route is not as appealing as operated by CX. More so, at ORD, CX's service can serve as a better reason for pax to connect on AA metal, hence extra revenue. Win-win for CX/AA, so that's the way to go.

Quoting SUNRISEVALLEY (Reply 10):
I notice that yesterday both their ORD and JFK -HKG flights operated eastbound on an airways track of 7357 and 7358nm respectively in 15hr 16min which gave a tail wind of ~12k. and comfortably inside the timetable times of 15h 25m and 15h 55m respectively

      Either more westward if headwind is not strong or more eastward if tail wind is great.

But DFW-HKG is for sure at the very marginal position for 77W.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: Can CX Use Newer 77W For DFW?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:04 pm

Quoting flythere (Reply 11):
But DFW-HKG is for sure at the very marginal position for 77W.

Not at all in my view. Assuming an ESAD of 7500nm which is probably a bit high on most days, The CX version should be good for 42 t payload which is max passenger ( in their configuration) plus about 13t of cargo . Not a bad load in my view.