cchan
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New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:39 pm

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread #102. In Thread #101 we discussed:

  • Rugby World Cup Flights
  • JQ handling of an on board death
  • NZ short haul services
  • Seat to Suit fare structure
  • NZ 777-200ER upgrades
  • Airpoints programme
  • New bilateral agreement possibilities
  • CHC wins award
 
jasewgtn
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:02 pm

I was surprised to see my flights from AKL/NOU next week up Friday 23Sep/back Tuesday 27Sep are being operated by a 763 in each direction instead of the A320 (Plus the AKL/NOU is operating a day later than the normal A320 service)

Anyone know why the upgauge of a/c? (not that i'm complaining at all - love the 767!)
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:35 pm

Quoting jasewgtn (Reply 1):
I was surprised to see my flights from AKL/NOU next week up Friday 23Sep/back Tuesday 27Sep are being operated by a 763 in each direction instead of the A320 (Plus the AKL/NOU is operating a day later than the normal A320 service)

Maybe a special event in NOU, or something to do with the Rugby?
 
nascarnut
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:25 am

Another exotic visitor just arrived at AKL direct from Phuket
VP-BRT Boeing BBJ
Should look nice in daylight. A most unusual paint job in the silver
 
koruman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:49 am

Over 80% of "French" visitors to the World Cup are actually New Caledonians.

The population of Noumea is largely split between Polynesians (Tahitian and Wallis Samoan) and Europeans, and the Europeans are half descendants of prisoners and half internal migrants from the south of France.

The last of those groups is the French demographic which likes rugby (ie southern) plus they are often highly nationalistic. I'm using a euphemism, obviously, to describe people whose racial views would have fitted in nicely in the old South Africa.

Hence 767 services during the World Cup.
 
nascarnut
Posts: 289
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:12 am

[quote=jasewgtn,reply=1]I was surprised to see my flights from AKL/NOU next week up Friday 23Sep/back Tuesday 27Sep are being operated by a 763 in each direction instead of the A320 (Plus the AKL/NOU is operating a day later than the normal A320 service)

Anyone know why the upgauge of a/c? (not that i'm complaining at all - love the 767!)


All Blacks play France at Eden Park on the 24th hence the upgrade for the French fans in Noumea
 
Unclekoru
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:05 pm

I've been told that seats to suit is being introduced on PER flights in the near future. Maybe Koruman's predictions for the future of NZ won't be too far off the mark.
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:59 pm

Folorn hope, but.....

By my calculations I'm going to be about 70 status points short of retaining my Gold status this year. Is there any "flexibility" in situations where you're close to the mark, or does the comupter simply give you the middle-finger, spit out the Silver card (or the dreaded Jade) and leave you standing crying at the entrance to the Koru Club?
 
jasewgtn
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:19 pm

Quoting gasman (Reply 8):
"flexibility"

You could try requesting it from the airnzfairy on twitter? Seen upgrades and ff status points gifted from them......
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:23 pm

Quoting jasewgtn (Reply 9):
You could try requesting it from the airnzfairy on twitter?

Tried but all the "airnzfaries" are currently busy serving drinks over the tasman  
 
jasewgtn
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:31 pm

Definition of gutted.....

The above flights I was talking about to Noumea are now on grab-a-seat for $330 less than what I paid  
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:00 am

Quoting jasewgtn (Reply 11):
Definition of gutted.....

Sure is. In this situation I would use points to upgrade to J....... then you won't end up feeling quite as ripped-off.
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:36 am

Any details of this HLZ emergency landing today?

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-sto...rrying-49-makes-emergency-landing/
 
nascarnut
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:37 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 13):
Any details of this HLZ emergency landing today?

An ATR operating ROT-CHC under-carriage would not retract so pilot chose to divert to HLZ
 
 
joelyboy911
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:59 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 14):

Moderately interesting. But, I think we've been through this 10-abreast 77W thing more than enough. Let's not fill #102 with it. Nobody's opinions of it are changing.

In good faith,
Joel
Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:25 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 14):
Another somewhat revealing 744/77W interior comparison..

The last few rows with 2-4-2 are a lot nicer on the 77W.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:48 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 4):
Over 80% of "French" visitors to the World Cup are actually New Caledonians.

Where is the proof to back up this statement?
 
NZ6
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:16 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 4):
Over 80% of "French" visitors to the World Cup are actually New Caledonians
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
Where is the proof to back up this statement?

Although yes this is the reason for that flight, I just wonder if there is another made up figure by Koruman?

Quoting Unclekoru (Reply 6):
I've been told that seats to suit is being introduced on PER flights in the near future. Maybe Koruman's predictions for the future of NZ won't be too far off the mark.

Long haul is under review, no decisions have been made although all options are being explored.

Quoting gasman (Reply 7):
By my calculations I'm going to be about 70 status points short of retaining my Gold status this year. Is there any "flexibility" in situations where you're close to the mark, or does the comupter simply give you the middle-finger, spit out the Silver card (or the dreaded Jade) and leave you standing crying at the entrance to the Koru Club?

Give Air NZ a call.


Not sure if anyone brought this up in thread 101 but NZ's new website is out on the Pacific Island site. The rest will be upgraded over the next few weeks

http://www.pacificislands.airnewzealand.com/
 
TravellerPlus
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:24 pm

I see that JQ has flown over a million passengers into WLG since operations began.

http://www.jetstar.com/mediacentre/l...4052-b257-cad8faba0596&language=en

The break down of the fares is interesting- over 3/4's paying under $100. JQ reported ancilliary revenues of $24 per pax in the QF annual report. The $100 fare will be missing the ancilliary revenue from baggage fees, in-flight sales etc. These would be higher if they decided to swap the in-flight paint stripper for real wine...
What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
 
nascarnut
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:13 am

2 Alliance Airlines Fokker 100 due into AKL today, Saturday 17th @ 1400 and 1430 from BNE carrying fans for the Australia-Ireland test tonight. Scheduled to depart again just after 0100 Sunday morning
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:57 am

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 18):
Not sure if anyone brought this up in thread 101 but NZ's new website is out on the Pacific Island site. The rest will be upgraded over the next few weeks

Interestingly the New Zealand site is still the old look. It doesn't matter whether NZ update the appearance of their website or not, what they really need to work on is to upgrade the very outdated booking engine to include features such as viewing seat availability before payment, choice to upgrade to next booking class, and a clear indication of how many Airpoint Dollars will the flight earn.
 
TravellerPlus
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:07 am

If people are interested in changes to international visitor arrivals, particularly over the Rugby World Cup, they are available at:

http://www.tourismresearch.govt.nz/D...Weekly-In-and-Outbound-Statistics/

The arrival card has been updated with a question asking if visitors have arrived for the RWC. This information will be available on a monthly basis on the following dates:

21 September, for the month of August
21 October, for month of September
22 November, for month of October
What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
 
koruman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:55 am

Looks to me like for the first weekend of the World Cup all international arrivals are up from 36,000 in 2009 and 2010 to 37,500 in 2011.
 
nascarnut
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:33 am

Quite a prking lot down at the eastern end of the airport

2 Fokker 100 from Alliance Airlines VH-FWH/VH-FWI
1 737-100QC from Airwork ZK-NQC
1 BAE 146-200 from Vincent Aviation ZK-ECO
2 Convairs from AirFreight NZ
1 Convair from Chatham Island Airlines
1 Metroliner for the Air Ambulance Service
1 Falcon 50 VH-FOL
1 Cessna 421C ZK-MFT
1 Piper PA-31-350 ZK-KVW

Also parked out of view is
VP-BRT 737 BBJ
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:50 am

Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 22):
The arrival card has been updated with a question asking if visitors have arrived for the RWC. This information will be available on a monthly basis on the following dates:

That question was availible from mid July at least. Shouldnt we have Julys arrival stats for the RWC ready by now?
I have already filled in yes three times on the cards and I have no intention to see a single Rugby game, but since most kiwis like the game they smile and wish me a pleasant stay in NZ.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
NZ6
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:23 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 21):
nclude features such as viewing seat availability before payment

You can't, for short haul anyway. What you buy and your FQTV status changes the options

Quoting cchan (Reply 21):
Interestingly the New Zealand site is still the old look

No they have not launched this new site with their biggest site traffic, cost wise.
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:20 am

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 26):
You can't, for short haul anyway. What you buy and your FQTV status changes the options

The point is, if there is no way to check seat availability before ticket purchase, there is less incentive to pay more for The Works, in case all preferred seats have already been taken.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:40 am

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 26):
Quoting cchan (Reply 21):
nclude features such as viewing seat availability before payment

You can't, for short haul anyway.

Why not? Lots of other airlines (e.g. AC) have managed to do it for years.

Quoting cchan (Reply 27):
The point is, if there is no way to check seat availability before ticket purchase, there is less incentive to pay more for The Works, in case all preferred seats have already been taken.

Or PE on long haul. If I could see seat availability, I could decide whether I want to fly through YVR, SFO or LAX.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
NZ6
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:15 pm

Quoting cchan (Reply 27):
The point is, if there is no way to check seat availability before ticket purchase, there is less incentive to pay more for The Works, in case all preferred seats have already been taken.
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 28):
Why not? Lots of other airlines (e.g. AC) have managed to do it for years.

And I guess this is why these forums are frustrating, there are solid reasons why NZ can't do this. Yes some people would like to see their seats before hand but at this point in time you can't.

Sure perhaps you could build some type of additional feature into Carina however given the list of projects on the go it wouldn't be top priority so we're back with what we have got in the mean time.
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:52 pm

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 29):
there are solid reasons why NZ can't do this

Then they should revert the seat request function to first come first serve basis for all passengers, and not make it part of the incentive to buy a more expensive product. It is only fair when customers know what they are going to get before they part with their money. Nobody is happy to pay extra for a seat request when only middle seats are available, for example.
 
TravellerPlus
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:34 pm

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 25):
I have already filled in yes three times on the cards and I have no intention to see a single Rugby game

I found your rationale for giving a false answer interesting. I don't know how often you fly to NZ, but most Kiwi border officials take pride in their jobs. Their job comes with the honour that they may be the first kiwi to welcome a guest to this great country.

I'm happy to bet that you'd have been given a smile and warm welcome if you'd answered, correctly, with a "No".
What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
 
NZ6
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:46 pm

Quoting cchan (Reply 30):
Then they should revert the seat request function to first come first serve basis for all passengers, and not make it part of the incentive to buy a more expensive product. It is only fair when customers know what they are going to get before they part with their money. Nobody is happy to pay extra for a seat request when only middle seats are available, for example.

That does not work either, there is already to much mixing in the cabin with all the different products. The passengers experience, strain on crew etc all support the seating zones which have been implemented. That aside the HVC zone will only work when the FQTV number is in the booking. When making a booking the FQTV number hasn't been entered.

And

Before we say seats to suit does not work we're talking about the 10% increase in market share, loads being higher and we are comparing this to not being able to seat select before purchase of the ticket, clearly not an issue for most people.
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:13 pm

Quoting cchan (Reply 30):
It is only fair when customers know what they are going to get before they part with their money. Nobody is happy to pay extra for a seat request when only middle seats are available, for example.

I agree. I have just been a case in point. I booked two 'works deluxe' seats for myself and my wife, only to find that when it came to seat selection, we couldn't sit together. Rang Air NZ who advised me to phone back 48hrs before departure (when seat planning becomes 'live' or something). Interestingly, shortly after this phone call, seat allocation for this flight was blocked on the website.

I'm sure it'll work out okay if and when I do phone - however, if I'd known I was going to have this hassle, I doubt I would've bothered with 'works deluxe'. I have lounge access anyway, and won't be checking in any bags.

Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 31):
I found your rationale for giving a false answer interesting. I don't know how often you fly to NZ, but most Kiwi border officials take pride in their jobs

They may do, but I suspect some of their job is superfluous, and I can sympathise with MillwallSean (reply 25) if he is frustrated with the amount of bureaucracy that New Zealand imposes both on entering, and also exiting, the country. Not many places make you fill out arrival cards AND departure cards (much of which is devoted to collecting completely banal information) and also separate customs/immigration and biosecurity queues.
 
nz2
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:27 pm

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 29):
And I guess this is why these forums are frustrating, there are solid reasons why NZ can't do this. Yes some people would like to see their seats before hand but at this point in time you can't.

The old website (possibly back in the 90's - cant quite recall) used to have the seat availability option, you had to go through the booking process but on the payment page you also had seat select option. It was a good way to suss out the loads and if it was worth booking that flight. The data is there it is just a matter of making it available and for an airline that prides itself on being innovative and customer focused, it is a mystery why they have gone backwards in this area. I think it should be an option for Gold/elite flyers to view prior to final booking. I think the website otherwise is not too bad, the only other gripe is not being able to make multiple stops internationally like on the domestic option. Unless it is a there an back flight, I have to use expedia to book when I have a land option between flights. Again this used to be availble but dissapeared a few years ago....
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:56 pm

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 32):
The passengers experience, strain on crew etc all support the seating zones which have been implemented.

Don't think it work that way. Passengers with different seat to suit products are seated together. On my last trip to RAR in July, the people next to me were The Works passengers and I was on Seat+Bag. The system is extra work for the crew who have to work out which passengers to serve a meal. The crew seemed a lot busier compared to the days a single product was offered.

Quoting NZ2 (Reply 34):
It was a good way to suss out the loads and if it was worth booking that flight. The data is there it is just a matter of making it available and for an airline that prides itself on being innovative and customer focused, it is a mystery why they have gone backwards in this area.

The option to request seats also encourages passengers to book earlier. For instance, to get seats 65A or 65K on the 77E, one needs to book rather early.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:31 am

Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 31):

I found your rationale for giving a false answer interesting. I don't know how often you fly to NZ, but most Kiwi border officials take pride in their jobs. Their job comes with the honour that they may be the first kiwi to welcome a guest to this great country.

I'm happy to bet that you'd have been given a smile and warm welcome if you'd answered, correctly, with a "No".

I fly in and out of Auckland airport ever second week.
It tend to start with a man with a raised voice policing the queues. An man, usually half yelling at paying passengers telling them to fill up the queues in front of the immigration agents.
Auckland airport has decided on a different queue system than operated in the rest of the world where instead of standing in line waiting for the next free immigration officer one should first queue normal then fill up behind one of the immigration officers own little queues.
An incredibly stupid system and since most people are not used to Auckland, they don't get it. Then mister staff sergeant steps in yells and tells these unfortunate passengers off. If they don't speak good English he tend to continue to yell. Even though its different people doing this it's always been a he when I've been there.
Great first impression of New Zealand Nope.
Professional Nope.

And no I dont see that smile given to me usually by the queue police. in fact to me its always a very grumpy man and I feel embarrassed on his behalf. he is the first real contact with NZ for poassengers and he behaves in that way.
Unnessescary and the queue system just is plain confusing and weird. that man could if there were a better system do something far more productive.

So if you work with immigration NZ, do bring up that, hey perhaps thats not the way to deal with the queue issue. If passengers dont understand the queuesystem maybe its better to bring back the system they understand...
It brings an unnessescary negative start to a visit.
(For me it doesnt matter i know whats coming and politely walk to one of the adhoc lines without being told off)

However since I started flying in and out of NZ, the immigration officers themselves have gone through a metamorphose. No more halfracist South Africans commenting on the countries one have visas from.
These days its been standardised and is more professional.
Starts with a hi even. Then the person ask what I have been doing overseas. I answer work, he looks through my passport, checks the PR sticker, scans the passport and tend to ask some silly conforming question showing very little knowledge about business. I answer politely back, he scribbles with his red pen and says welcome back.
Fun, fun. I prefer the silent approach but this one works fine too.

Actually I always try to go to one of the Polynesians/maori at immigration. Warm and welcoming and more relaxed. Takes pride in welcoming people and usually joke a bit.
Thats the good with the present queue system one can choose which immigration agent.

I like the MAF people though, they just look so cynical sending most non caucasian for bag check and people like me straight to x-ray. I never bring anything suspiscious back so hes right in that.

Have a mate working for one of NZ largest meat companies. Lets put it this way on the question have you been to a farm he answers no despite that being his precise work.
As an amateur I might have thought that a man that writes a very rural address ie lives on a farm, works for a farmcompany overseas should be the first to get scanned when arriving back in NZ. Thats a real risk to spread disease to the farming industry. Hes never asked to even open his bags. Racial bias oh yes very much so.

However the Asian student residing in a student apartement in Auckland that might bring in some banned dried meat given by his parents seems to get checked very frequently.
Doesnt make sense to me, but thats just me.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
NZ6
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:18 am

Quoting NZ2 (Reply 34):
The old website (possibly back in the 90's - cant quite recall) used to have the seat availability option, you had to go through the booking process but on the payment page you also had seat select option. It was a good way to suss out the loads and if it was worth booking that flight. The data is there it is just a matter of making it available and for an airline that prides itself on being innovative and customer focused, it is a mystery why they have gone backwards in this area.

Backwards in not allowing seating prior to payment? Yes maybe but the website is significantly better now than back then, even without GrabASeat. In the 90's 4% of bookings were made online but now 96% are. For Trans-Tasman flights that is. Look at all the other online options you have today. The website is much much better today than in the 90's

I think one major point which is forgotten here is that on these forums we get the opinion of airline enthusiasts only, most customers and most HVC's don't fall into this category and their preferences and priorities are different. For example a typical HVC will not book his flight based on what seat request is available but he will book his flight because he needs that flight but will also expect there to be a good seat available to request. Likewise a lot of people don't even request seats, strange I know but very true.

This is why I say it would be nice and possible to do seat requests first but there would be the need for some major changes to the Carina first. The cost wouldn't be worth it given other I.T projects which are underway now.

Quoting NZ2 (Reply 34):
I think it should be an option for Gold/elite flyers to view prior to final booking.

It would be nice, but we can't do it right now.

Quoting cchan (Reply 35):
Don't think it work that way. Passengers with different seat to suit products are seated together

Very there is too much mixing. Some of it can't be avoided in-line with giving passengers their"choice" but Air NZ is trying to control/minimize it. There has been a lot a feedback from works passengers who like like getting a meal when the person next to them doesn't.

Quoting cchan (Reply 35):
On my last trip to RAR in July, the people next to me were The Works passengers and I was on Seat+Bag.

Yes this can and will happen. I didn't say it wouldn't
 
BlackLabel
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:18 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 33):
They may do, but I suspect some of their job is superfluous, and I can sympathise with MillwallSean (reply 25) if he is frustrated with the amount of bureaucracy that New Zealand imposes both on entering, and also exiting, the country. Not many places make you fill out arrival cards AND departure cards (much of which is devoted to collecting completely banal information) and also separate customs/immigration and biosecurity queues.

It feels like most of the places I travel to have this both in the security forms and separate immigration and customs/biosecurity queues. Off hand - USA (travel under a visa and you get the entry/exit forms), India, Singapore, Australia, Nepal, Korea, Vietnam (although they seem to have got rid of their customs form recently). Can't remember if Canada was an entry-only form or whether there was something retained for exit.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 36):
Auckland airport has decided on a different queue system than operated in the rest of the world where instead of standing in line waiting for the next free immigration officer one should first queue normal then fill up behind one of the immigration officers own little queues.

This queuing mechanism is common in other countries too - offhand, India, Australia, USA, Singapore sort of - they don't have the master pre-queue but they do have individual queues for each desk. I don't find it confusing (and I think most passengers don't) but I do find it inefficient.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 36):
These days its been standardised and is more professional.

That I have noticed recently. My average immigration wait at AKL is now close to zero with few comments made about my travel or living overseas. I'm not sure whether it's due to a new passport with less annotations on the immigration system, or whether they've finally given up asking me about pointless things.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 37):
Backwards in not allowing seating prior to payment? Yes maybe but the website is significantly better now than back then, even without GrabASeat. In the 90's 4% of bookings were made online but now 96% are.

Yes that is backwards. The seats-to-suit implementation is incomplete and results, IMO, a worse experience for passengers and lost opportunity for the airline (as well as being something I really don't like).

As for the online booking trend - that has nothing to do with the airline. Look at Internet penetration in the 90s vs. today and you have your answer for why that trend has happened, similar for many other industries (who bought insurance via the Internet in 1999 vs 2009 for instance...).
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:23 am

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 38):
Off hand - USA (travel under a visa and you get the entry/exit forms), India, Singapore, Australia, Nepal, Korea, Vietnam (although they seem to have got rid of their customs form recently).

No, USA only has entry forms, and when exiting, "customs" procedures are dealt with at check in. That's two less beauracratic processes than New Zealand has when exiting the country. And USA doesn't have biosecurity when entering.

Not that these comparisons are necessarily relevant - it's what's important to New Zealand which matters, and nothing else - but I can't believe there isn't room to trim the travel beauracracy a bit.
 
BlackLabel
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:30 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 39):
No, USA only has entry forms, and when exiting, "customs" procedures are dealt with at check in. That's two less beauracratic processes than New Zealand has when exiting the country. And USA doesn't have biosecurity when entering.

There absolutely is a US exit form: you fill it in as part of the arrival form, but it remains with your passport until you depart - where it is, as you say, collected at check-in. They also do have customs/biosecurity at arrival, however not many passengers are directed to it unless coming from a country which they deem high risk (NZ is not one) or fit a profile. Try arriving into the US off an African or Asian origin flight and you'll see half the plane being sent for bag search/x-ray.

I live in the US on a visa that requires me to fill in the arrival and departure forms; and I arrive from many origins; so I'm pretty sure what I am talking about here. I've had my bags searched when arriving from Asia, looking for food.
 
Gasman
Posts: 1430
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:34 am

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 40):
There absolutely is a US exit form: you fill it in as part of the arrival form

Well, I guess the point is that it's filled out as part of the arrival form. And more than once I've travelled home with that little green card still in my passport anyway. The fact remains there is no extra piece of paper to fill out when leaving, no customs queue when exiting, and you are unlikely to be diverted to biosecurity when entering.
 
BlackLabel
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:13 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 41):

Well, I guess the point is that it's filled out as part of the arrival form. And more than once I've travelled home with that little green card still in my passport anyway. The fact remains there is no extra piece of paper to fill out when leaving, no customs queue when exiting, and you are unlikely to be diverted to biosecurity when entering.

The green form is long since gone (replaced with the ESTA process). The I-94 process is white, and for visa holders. Losing/not surrendering that white card can cost you your visa, so it's a much more serious issue (and pain in the ass) than the green form ever was. My immigration attorney makes me send them copies of my I-94s each time I get one, just in case.

Currently my biosecurity searches/x-rays are at a constant ratio for both NZ arrivals (I usually get waved past x-ray this year, but I've had two x-rays) and US arrivals (1 xray, 1 search), so I'd argue there's already little difference between NZ and "many other countries".

Fact is: NZ isn't that much different from the rest of the world in terms of overall process, and is better than many in terms of friendliness, speed, and ease of process.
 
nz2
Posts: 168
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:33 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 36):
I like the MAF people though, they just look so cynical sending most non caucasian for bag check and people like me straight to x-ray. I never bring anything suspiscious back so hes right in that.

Gee, even to be sent to X-ray must mean you are a little bit suspect, I cant recall last time I did not walk straight out, maybe a year or so ago....

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 37):
Backwards in not allowing seating prior to payment? Yes maybe but the website is significantly better now than back then, even without GrabASeat. In the 90's 4% of bookings were made online but now 96% are. For Trans-Tasman flights that is. Look at all the other online options you have today. The website is much much better today than in the 90's

Sorry, you missed what I was saying. Of course the website is infinately bettter today and I said that, what I was pointing out is that 15 years ago one could see what seats were available before making payt, and why is that backwards? If you dont proceed with the booking then no seat is reserved, pretty obvious I thought. Saying the technology is not available is a nonsense, all that is required is a look up to the same data one gets about 10 seconds after making payment - so what is the difference in seeing what seats are available before or after payment? I dont know what the cost is but it is certainly not prohibitive. I was involved in a development of a freight transport booking system that had to calculate multiple variables in a live, real time situation, multiple departures per day and multiple days of the week resulting in huge calculations and was actually developed from an air traffic control platform, cost was about $15-20k. It was all web based and open to anyone so long as they were registered, which most Gold/Elite customers are. To do a static look up based on only 1 variable (what seats are reserved at the current point in time) is quite straight forward.
 
cchan
Topic Author
Posts: 954
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:26 am

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 37):
There has been a lot a feedback from works passengers who like like getting a meal when the person next to them doesn't.

Then NZ will be losing Seat and Seat+Bag customers to DJ and JQ in the longer term. No one would want to pay to go on an airline when fellow passengers have that attitude.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 36):
So if you work with immigration NZ, do bring up that, hey perhaps thats not the way to deal with the queue issue.

Is that yelling guy employed by immigration or by customs? It is quite interesting that the person who stamp your passport is wearing a customs uniform, not an immigration one.

[Edited 2011-09-18 01:27:08]
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:59 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 21):
Interestingly the New Zealand site is still the old look. It doesn't matter whether NZ update the appearance of their website or not, what they really need to work on is to upgrade the very outdated booking engine to include features such as viewing seat availability before payment, choice to upgrade to next booking class, and a clear indication of how many Airpoint Dollars will the flight earn.

Don't forget online checkin for domestic, which has totally disappeared. Perplexing.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 29):
And I guess this is why these forums are frustrating,

If you find it frustrating talking about it here, imagine how we find it as paying customers.

Quoting NZ2 (Reply 34):
it is a mystery why they have gone backwards in this area

It is strange, given the importance of the online booking experience for NZ, as illustrated by the amount of tickets being sold via the website.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 37):
The website is mu ch much better today than in the 90's

Well, yes, one would hope so. But let's face, we're comparing the NZ website to other airlines current website, not NZ's own website from back in the day.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 37):
I think one major point which is forgotten here is that on these forums we get the opinion of airline enthusiasts only,

Nice. Not only does this forum provide NZ free feedback (focus groups not required) but I suspect a lot of us are reflecting the sentiment of family, friends and, in my case, colleagues. The lack of online checkin for domestic flights has proved a genuine pain in the proverbial lately.

Here's a scenario you might find familiar (or maybe not, but it is common when you're travelling for business).

Early flight to Wellington, meet and greet with clients/colleagues. Few morning meetings then out for a lunch meeting before the big afternoon presentation. Meeting gets going, lots of introductions, catching up on the current situation and the reason we're all meeting, outlining of what the problem/opportunity is and what we need to do about it. People soak it up for a bit, thoughts are percolating but aren't ready to be verbalised then bang, it all comes together in the last 15 minutes when there's more of a rapport in the room and everyone's processed the information tidal wave that's just washed over them.

And so the real value from the day is in that last little bit when there's a bit of time rpessure but you've got your head round something. The quantity and quality of questions shoots up, people are beginning to make connections now that we're sharing things, ideas/solutions are forming.

Oh but wait we have to scoot because we have to catch the flight back to Auckland - need to be there 30 (!!) mins beforehand according to our tickets just to checkin. We're on fully-flexi but for an early evening flight there's a big risk in trying to change flights for a later seat as they're usually all taken (raising questions as to the point of booking a fully flexi).

Can't we just get reception or a PA/EA to check us in online and print out our boarding passes (no luggage, of course)?And roll into the airport 15 mins beforehand? Nup... because there's no online checkin.

See, that last jolt of energy you get from a work trip is usually (for me anyway) what makes it all worthwhile. even those precious 15 extra minutes of face-to-face time is often invaluable. Online checkin allows for that. Or at least... it used to.
Even the airline touted its success... http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press-release-2007-online-check-in
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4402
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:10 am

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 42):
The I-94 process is white, and for visa holders. Losing/not surrendering that white card can cost you your visa, so it's a much more serious issue (and pain in the ass) than the green form ever was. My immigration attorney makes me send them copies of my I-94s each time I get one, just in case.

There is NO arrival & departure forms in the USA for visa waiver & ESTA travelers. At least there was not in July/August last year, has it changed? (It's all electronic AFAIK)

Gemuser
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BlackLabel
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:29 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 45):
Can't we just get reception or a PA/EA to check us in online and print out our boarding passes (no luggage, of course)?And roll into the airport 15 mins beforehand? Nup... because there's no online checkin.

See, that last jolt of energy you get from a work trip is usually (for me anyway) what makes it all worthwhile. even those precious 15 extra minutes of face-to-face time is often invaluable. Online checkin allows for that. Or at least... it used to.

You're checked in at time of booking. If you're using ePass (and mPass, maybe) then you just turn up at the gate, no need to check-in at all. If you have neither of those then you can (or at least, could, in my past experience) still print a boarding pass at 15 minutes prior to departure at the kiosk.

It's been a while since I was a frequent domestic traveler, but I always booked my returns flexi for exactly this reason, and rarely had an issue getting on a later flight unless there had been weather disrupts or a major event like the 7s on (or both!).

Quoting gemuser (Reply 46):
There is NO arrival & departure forms in the USA for visa waiver & ESTA travelers. At least there was not in July/August last year, has it changed? (It's all electronic AFAIK)

I am pretty sure I said the arrival and departure forms were "for travel under a visa", and explicitly mentioned the white I-94 forms. You still have to fill out a US customs form on arrival when traveling with ESTA, but nothing on departure.
 
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mariner
Posts: 18412
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:30 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 44):
Then NZ will be losing Seat and Seat+Bag customers to DJ and JQ in the longer term. No one would want to pay to go on an airline when fellow passengers have that attitude.

I'm not sure what you mean. How does any passenger know what another passenger's attitude is?

And fly economy on Virgin Australia and their transferred international pax get a (free) meal tray while sitting next to other pax who don't.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Gasman
Posts: 1430
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #102

Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:42 am

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 47):
I am pretty sure I said the arrival and departure forms were "for travel under a visa", and explicitly mentioned the white I-94 forms. You still have to fill out a US customs form on arrival when traveling with ESTA, but nothing on departure.

So we're all finally agreed that the US has less form-filling than NZ, no separate "customs" on departure and a rarely-encountered biosecurity process. Whether or not one thinks New Zealand is "in line with other countries", I would challenge anyone to find a first world country where the process is worse. The form-filling is a particular pain, especially when travelling with kids.

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