wdleiser
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First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:29 pm

Did a search to see if this topic has been discussed and it failed to turn up anything...

Anyone have any speculations on Lufthansa's first couple of destinations that they will deploy their 747-8's on?

I am hoping that we get one here at IAH soon!
 
qf002
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:24 am

Nothing yet, sadly. There was chatter of LAX from what I remember.
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:25 am

Quoting wdleiser (Thread starter):
Anyone have any speculations on Lufthansa's first couple of destinations that they will deploy their 747-8's on?

Nobody knows. The winter schedule 2011/2012 is not 100% confirmed within the company, so I doubt they know where to put the 748i on in summer schedule 2012.
I could think of routes where the 744 has range problems. Like FRA-EZE-FRA or maybe they put it on the SIN route as the 388 might have too many seats and the 748i just has the right amount of seats and the SIN-FRA flight is during wintertime difficult to do on the 744 if you have full PAX.
Maybe DEL as LH planned the 388 to fly there, but India forbids that. Maybe PVG as chinese Government forbids the 388 to fly there...
So let the speculation begin. 
Quoting wdleiser (Thread starter):
I am hoping that we get one here at IAH soon!

Could happen. But every time I flew to IAH flight weren't 100% booked, so I doubt the extra seats are required.

But I am sure no matter where it will fly, we as crew will bid for these trips, no matter where it flies 

wilco737
  
 
LH422
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:33 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
the SIN-FRA flight is during wintertime difficult to do on the 744 if you have full PAX.

Is the SIN flight not going A388 year-round?
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:35 am

Quoting LH422 (Reply 3):
Is the SIN flight not going A388 year-round?

From what I heard yes, they want to do the 388 year- round on the SIN route. But that could change if they cannot fill the 388 up and maybe the little less seats on the 748i would fit perfectly then.

wilco737
  
 
LH506
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:45 am

Before the additional MUC-MEX was announced I would have guessed FRA-MEX gets the extra capacity the 748I offers, now I guess the there is enough capacity.

So here are my ideas:

GRU
ORD
BKK-KUL
DEN
NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 788 300B2 300B4 345 359 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:47 am

Quoting LH506 (Reply 5):
BKK-KUL

Good choice as well. Flight is rather long, but good managable by the 744. Flights sometimes pretty full, so the extra boost in seats could be helpful.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 5):
DEN

DEN? Hmm, another option as well.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 5):
ORD

I thought about that one as well. Maybe to reduce from 2 flights to one... Currently 2 744s flying to ORD daily from FRA.

wilco737
  
 
LHFADUS
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:55 am

My guess would be any 744 destination, that hasn't received A380 service so far or where the A380 was proven "too big". JFK and ORD would be my first guess. IAD and IAH are probable as well. A few Asian destinations: BOM, DEL, PVG, BKK, HKG.
 
airbazar
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:04 pm

In my opinion, it will be to destinations that are begging for a capacity increase but can't handle the A380. Also where the 748i can give then a competitive advantage. GRU is a no brainer, IMO.
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:16 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
In my opinion, it will be to destinations that are begging for a capacity increase but can't handle the A380. Also where the 748i can give then a competitive advantage.

Yes. I guess that was the intention of LH to buy the 748i where the 388 is too big and the 744 is not big enough.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
GRU is a no brainer, IMO.

Maybe, maybe not. I would say EZE will get it before GRU does.

wilco737
  
 
Semaex
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:18 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 4):
From what I heard yes, they want to do the 388 year- round on the SIN route. But that could change if they cannot fill the 388 up and maybe the little less seats on the 748i would fit perfectly then.

Just a thought, but maybe LH could put the A380 year-round on the route, so SQ has no need to deploy the 744 to FRA anymore, which as we all know, burns more than the 777, which SQ runs through FRA (-JFK) already.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 5):
GRU
ORD

GRU is likely I believe. Loads are good, but it isn't A380-ready yet. Besides, out of own interest, I just wish for them to have the 748i, they are a nice people who deserve the newest jet  
ORD is something I wouldn't expect. The frequency to FRA both on UA and LH is so great, I doubt they could fill a 748i. I'm glad to be proven wrong, as I am unaware of the L/F on LH 744.
If I were to put money on a couple of destinations, I'd go for BOM, DEL and PVG, for the reasons stated in previous posts and threads.
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:23 pm

Quoting Semaex (Reply 10):
Just a thought, but maybe LH could put the A380 year-round on the route, so SQ has no need to deploy the 744 to FRA anymore, which as we all know, burns more than the 777, which SQ runs through FRA (-JFK) already.

Good thought. SIN-FRA is pretty long and the 744 is close at its max there when high pax load. So the 380 makes sense there for sure.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 10):
The frequency to FRA both on UA and LH is so great, I doubt they could fill a 748i. I'm glad to be proven wrong, as I am unaware of the L/F on LH 744.

ORD is doing pretty well. I mean, there are 2 daily 744 flights from FRA, one 340 from MUC and one 333 from DUS. And the loads are pretty good. But for the 748i? Dunno. Maybe one 340 and one 748i.

wilco737
  
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:25 pm

Why does India forbid carriers operating the A380 there? Is it out of fear of taking custom away from their own carriers.

They could do with the EU in that part of the world... to prevent anti-competitive and protectionist regulation of the market.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
stylo777
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:26 pm

the first 748 destination is going to be Sao Paolo (GRU)
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:27 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 12):
Why does India forbid carriers operating the A380 there? Is it out of fear of taking custom away from their own carriers.

I guess so. LH wanted to fly to DEL with the 388, but wasn't possible due to some issues between the Governments. What exactly? I don't know about that.
Same with PVG. LH wanted to fly the 388 there as one of their first destinations. Well, the 388 is still not flying there, so the issues not resolved.

wilco737
  
 
na
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:30 pm

I´d say Mumbai could be one of the first 748 routes for LH. Especially the businessclass is often full on that route and the 748I will receive a big Biz section, almost as big as the A380.
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:31 pm

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 13):

the first 748 destination is going to be Sao Paolo (GRU)

Says who?!   

Quoting na (Reply 15):
Especially the businessclass is often full on that route and the 748I will receive a big Biz section,

Not only the business class. The flight is usually pretty full.

wilco737
  
 
LondonCity
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:37 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 14):
I guess so. LH wanted to fly to DEL with the 388, but wasn't possible due to some issues between the Governments. What exactly? I don't know about that.

Some information re the LH problems with the Indian government over the A380:


http://www.terminalu.com/travel-news...landing-rights-in-new-delhi/15643/
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:38 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 17):
Some information re the LH problems with the Indian government over the A380:

Ah, many thanks for that link.

wilco737
  
 
fra-flyer
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:57 pm

As long as the homeairport will be FRA evertyhing is ok for me! 
Greetings from Frankfurt :)
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:59 pm

Quoting fra-flyer (Reply 19):
As long as the homeairport will be FRA evertyhing is ok for me! 

Very true. But I don't care from where she is flying, as long as I can fly her myself 

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bavair
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:00 pm

Quoting fra-flyer (Reply 19):
As long as the homeairport will be FRA evertyhing is ok for me!

I wouldn't mind MUC.. :P
And certain routes in MUC could rly use it, such as SFO and PVG. But I think before MUC ever sees the B748i, LH is going to move some B744's down south..
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:04 pm

Quoting bavair (Reply 21):
I wouldn't mind MUC.. :P
And certain routes in MUC could rly use it, such as SFO and PVG. But I think before MUC ever sees the B748i, LH is going to move some B744's down south..

I wonder if that is going to be the intention?

Make FRA and 748 base and remove the remaining 744s down to MUC? LH are refurbishing a small number with the new economy and first products so could be in prep for that maybe?
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wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:07 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 22):
LH are refurbishing a small number with the new economy and first products so could be in prep for that maybe?

A small number? 23 of 30 airplanes get the new F and Y class. So quite a big portion of the fleet. And the rest? Well, maybe that will be the end of the 7 other airplanes...  

wilco737
  
 
bavair
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:11 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 23):

A small number? 23 of 30 airplanes get the new F and Y class. So quite a big portion of the fleet. And the rest? Well, maybe that will be the end of the 7 other airplanes...

wilco737

Rumor is coming around that those planes will be used to service more touristic destinations which would help against the competition of Condor, AB and Air France KLM
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:13 pm

Quoting bavair (Reply 24):
Rumor is coming around that those planes will be used to service more touristic destinations which would help against the competition of Condor, AB and Air France KLM

That rumour is couple months old and from 3 different positions I heard it is dead. So not gonna happen...

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Ronaldo747
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:14 pm

What's about EWR? It's an *-Hub and the A380 cannot operate into EWR.
 
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robffm2
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:16 pm

What makes an airport A388 or B748 ready?

I guess the two (boarding) decks make the A388 special, but the B748 will be longer than any other plane in operations.

Does this pose a problem for any of the airports mentioned?
And is the A380 always boarded from two levels at all airports?
 
nipoel123
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:30 pm

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 27):
And is the A380 always boarded from two levels at all airports?

Only when the jetways allow it I suppose. At AMS we have these double jetways, and the rear one looks like it can serve an upper deck. I'm not sure about other airports though. I've only seen double jetways at AMS, but I'm sure there are other airports that have them.
one mile of road leads to nowhere, one mile of runway leads to anywhere
 
trex8
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:58 pm

Anyone seen what the cabin configuration is?
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:00 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 29):
Anyone seen what the cabin configuration is?

Looks like 8 F class in the front section of the airplane. Some C class seats upstairs and many many Y class in the back 

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AR385
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:18 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 9):
Maybe, maybe not. I would say EZE will get it before GRU does.

I believe FRA-EZE is a no brainer simply because the current 744 is full year round and Westound in Winter is a struggle for the lady.

Last November, when I flew the route, per the F/A there was one empty seat in the C section and 7 in the whole of Y. F, where I was, was full. In addittion, the flight was delayed 30 mins. as we had to unload cargo at the gate (the Captain explained over the PA) as we were too heavy. Later the FA told me this routinely happens.

I´m sure if MEX was A388 ready, we would get the A388, but it is not, so FRA-MEX must be in the plans for initial 748i routes, even though the MUC-MEX has already been announced.
 
abibus
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:32 pm

Mex and eze and sin are the First destinations for sure the 380 Works well for th USA and latinamerica is Perfect for lh and the 748
 
stylo777
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:13 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 16):
Says who?!   

says the people in network and revenue department, also considering the inability of the airport of GRU to get A380-ready.
 
CX288
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:36 pm

The first destination will be one where they can operate a daily rotation with a single aircraft, hence FRA-Destination-FRA within a maximum 22 hours or so.

As such, Newark, Delhi or Dubai seem to be feasible options.

Once operations are established and more aircraft get delivered, I see Los Angeles and Buenos Aires to be added to the list of destinations.
 
Semaex
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:41 pm

Quoting CX288 (Reply 34):
The first destination will be one where they can operate a daily rotation

Talking of; how is the schedule on the first aircraft? I heard somewhere that it is already fully painted. Will LH do cabin fitting by itself (LHT in Hamburg) or will the plane stay in Everett for some more months?
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
laca773
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:42 pm

Is the 748 going to be a premium heavy a/c?
 
N104UA
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:49 pm

I remember hearing a few years ago they informed DEN Management that they were planning to bring the 748 there and DEN needed to move the roadway behind A43 further back so there would be tail clearance
"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
 
stylo777
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:04 pm

Quoting CX288 (Reply 34):

The first destination will be one where they can operate a daily rotation with a single aircraft, hence FRA-Destination-FRA within a maximum 22 hours or so.

not necessarily... of course, it would make things much easier, but looking at the EIS of the A380 they operated some rotations with the A380 and the remaining ones with the 744. furthermore, the commonality with the 744 allows an even better flexibility in that regards.
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:13 pm

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 33):
says the people in network and revenue department, also considering the inability of the airport of GRU to get A380-ready.

Thanks for the info. Is that official now? Would be good to know.

wilco737
  
 
jacobin777
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:15 pm

Quoting Semaex (Reply 10):
ORD is something I wouldn't expect. The frequency to FRA both on UA and LH is so great, I doubt they could fill a 748i. I'm glad to be proven wrong, as I am unaware of the L/F on LH 744.

LH was on record a few years ago stating that ORD would be one of their B748i destinations.

I wouldn't be surprised to see SFO as well (during the low season). If the A380 remains a "hit" on the FRA-SFO route, maybe they will keep it year-round..  
"Up the Irons!"
 
airbazar
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:26 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 14):
I guess so. LH wanted to fly to DEL with the 388, but wasn't possible due to some issues between the Governments. What exactly? I don't know about that.

The Germany-India bilateral limits German carriers to aircraft of "747 size" and also a cap on seats. So not only won't LH be able to operate the A380 but they probably won't be able to operate the 748i either as that may put them over the allowed number of seats. As with any bilateral, a change has to benefit both parties and the Indian government doesn't think it benefits them.

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 27):
What makes an airport A388 or B748 ready?

Wing span clearance for one. There needs to be enough clearance for the A388 to taxi to/from gate. But lots of other things like gate and ramp equipment, sufficient boarding area for that many passengers. Taxiway turn radius is also different. If those taxiways cross any bridges those may need to be re-enforced. There's a slew of improvements required depending on the airport.
 
whales
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:31 pm

Could we see it flying to JNB, as that has a mix of the 388 and the 744?

Cheers

William
 
gigneil
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:38 pm

Quoting N104UA (Reply 37):
I remember hearing a few years ago they informed DEN Management that they were planning to bring the 748 there and DEN needed to move the roadway behind A43 further back so there would be tail clearance

Correct. Also they mentioned the A380 a bit back as well, which facilitated the roadway move.

All things told, the A340-600 probably also required it to be moved.

NS
 
stylo777
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:45 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 39):
Thanks for the info. Is that official now? Would be good to know.

unfortunately not...
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:47 pm

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 44):
unfortunately not...

ALright, then I guess we all have to patient until it comes official. Thanks.

wilco737
  
 
warden145
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:03 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 40):
I wouldn't be surprised to see SFO as well (during the low season). If the A380 remains a "hit" on the FRA-SFO route, maybe they will keep it year-round..

I was just about to ask about that...has anyone heard anything from LH as to whether the A380's going to stay at SFO year-round or if they're going to go back to the 747 (-400 and possibly the -8i in the future) in the winter? I saw that AF's already switched to the 777 for the winter (and IIRC AF wasn't planning to bring the A380 back to SFO next summer)...
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
 
wilco737
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:06 pm

Quoting warden145 (Reply 46):
has anyone heard anything from LH as to whether the A380's going to stay at SFO year-round or if they're going to go back to the 747 (-400 and possibly the -8i in the future) in the winter?

This winter it is 744, summer again 388. Next winter? Who knows... Depends on the loads I guess. If they have enough bookings, then 388, otherwise 744/ 748i...

wilco737
  
 
747400sp
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:09 pm

Quoting fra-flyer (Reply 19):
As long as the homeairport will be FRA evertyhing is ok for me!

Well, I wonder why!
     
 
_AA_777_MAN
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RE: First Lufthansa 747-8 Routes

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:07 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 40):
LH was on record a few years ago stating that ORD would be one of their B748i destinations.

Well LH was also saying a few years ago that ORD would be one of their A380 destinations as well.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 6):

I thought about that one as well. Maybe to reduce from 2 flights to one... Currently 2 744s flying to ORD daily from FRA.

I don't think it makes sense to replace 2 744 flights with one 748i, especially from * hub to * hub. Even if it is just for the winter, I think that this route is a freq. route as much as it is a cap. route. Maybe downgrading the evening flight to a 343 and keeping the 744 on the afternoon flight for the winter. But I'm sure this route sees it's fair share of cargo so I wouldn't be surprised if the 2x daily 744s stay through out the winter and go 1x daily 748 and 1x daily 744 for the summer.

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