N62NA
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AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:04 pm

This is just weird. I was looking through the timetable and noticed that AA is going down from the 3 daily MIA-EWR-MIA flights to just one on some days of the week this month.

What doesn't make sense is how the flights are timed, since all flights between these 2 cities are flown MIA-EWR-MIA (i.e. the plane comes up from Miami and turns around in EWR and heads right back to Miami).

Sept 20th:

12:35pm MIA 3:40pm EWR AA #692 757
1:59p EWR 4:59pm MIA AA #1559 757

So... where does the 757 from AA #692 go once it gets to EWR? And where does the 757 that operates AA #1559 come from???
 
Jamake1
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:12 pm

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
So... where does the 757 from AA #692 go once it gets to EWR? And where does the 757 that operates AA #1559 come from???

Perhaps those A/C are routed through DFW or ORD on those single flight days, rather than routed as a MIA turn.
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N62NA
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:15 pm

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 1):
Perhaps those A/C are routed through DFW or ORD on those single flight days, rather than routed as a MIA turn.

Yeah, that was the first thing I checked but nope.
 
ScottB
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:19 pm

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
So... where does the 757 from AA #692 go once it gets to EWR? And where does the 757 that operates AA #1559 come from???

AA is reducing a bunch of capacity by day-of-week, so it may be as simple as the previous night's terminator staying at EWR to operate AA 1559, while the 757 used for AA 692 may also park overnight.
 
apodino
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:28 pm

I notice that AA has an EWR-LAX flight that would coincide with those times, but its on a 738.

As unlikely as this would seem, I am guessing that 757 may well be an EWR RON. ORD is pretty much all MQ now, and DFW is down to 4X M80s, and LAX is a single 738. There doesn't seem to be any other AA flights in EWR.
 
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downtown273
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:36 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 3):
AA is reducing a bunch of capacity by day-of-week, so it may be as simple as the previous night's terminator staying at EWR to operate AA 1559, while the 757 used for AA 692 may also park overnight.

Indeed. #692 arrives in EWR at 3:40pm and heads back to MIA as #1559 the day after departing at 1:59pm.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:31 pm

A bit off topic, but has CO/UA become so dominant at EWR that its major competitors are seeing little traffic to their hubs? Granted, AA puts its New York emphasis at LGA and JFK, but there are a lot of people who need to go to and from the New Jersey part of the Tri-State area. A lot of companies, for various reasons, have decided to put many of their employees in places like Ft. Lee, Secaucus, and Parsippany.
 
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:33 pm

I'll be the first to rattle the cage and get the AA lovers on my back . . .

What the heck is going on with AA at EWR? They were the #2 airline there up until recently (mid 2000s).

EWR-Florida should work, especially with a major cornerstone hub on one end and a cornerstone city on the other
 
apodino
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:38 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 6):
A bit off topic, but has CO/UA become so dominant at EWR that its major competitors are seeing little traffic to their hubs? Granted, AA puts its New York emphasis at LGA and JFK, but there are a lot of people who need to go to and from the New Jersey part of the Tri-State area. A lot of companies, for various reasons, have decided to put many of their employees in places like Ft. Lee, Secaucus, and Parsippany.

And because of the CO/UA hub at EWR, those companies are likely to have their corporate contracts with UA/CO if they aren't flying private jets out of TEB. Even if other airlines beefed up service to their hubs, the NJ companies are likely to stick with UA/CO because of all the NS out of the hubs. AA and DL both know this, which is why they are focusing NYC operations at LGA/JFK and focusing on the corporate contracts of the Manhattan based companies rather than the NJ based ones.

That being said though, 12 daily flights on AA seems like a joke at an airport like EWR. And ORD is almost all MQ now. Just shows you how strong UA/CO is on both ends.
 
N62NA
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:41 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
What the heck is going on with AA at EWR? They were the #2 airline there up until recently (mid 2000s).

They view EWR as some backwater outpost. Minimal flights to DFW. Minimal flights to MIA. Minimal flights to ORD (and on RJs!). One flight to LAX (and on a 738!). This view of EWR really isn't anything new. All the legacies have, with the exception of CO (and now, via acquisition, UA), viewed EWR this way for decades.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
EWR-Florida should work, especially with a major cornerstone hub on one end and a cornerstone city on the other

Well, they will supposedly be back to 3x daily in a month or two from now after the "slow season." According to their seat maps (yes I know, only shows ASSIGNED seats), the flights are always full or close to full.
 
masseybrown
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:41 pm

Is this just a seasonal reduction? Sept-Oct-Nov are generally the worst months for Florida traffic. SoAm also picks up in Dec.
 
SCL767
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:51 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 10):
Is this just a seasonal reduction? Sept-Oct-Nov are generally the worst months for Florida traffic. SoAm also picks up in Dec.

That is accurate and also applies to other flights originating at MIA during the week. For example, MIA-BOG now operates 10x weekly and MIA-CLO now operates 4x weekly. MIA-EWR will revert back to 3x daily beginning on November 17th.
 
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:58 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 11):
That is accurate and also applies to other flights originating at MIA during the week.

What's interesting is that AA cuts flights by 66% during a few weekdays on MIA-EWR and nothing close to that at MIA-LGA/JFK.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:09 pm

"They view EWR as some backwater outpost."

But I am not sure why. I guess it is picking your battles. Both DL and AA (and even UA) were pretty sizeable at EWR up until 10 years ago.

Yes, CO got bigger and pushed them out. On the other hand, it is really constant cutting of capacity plus the CO hub that did this
 
commavia
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:13 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 12):
What's interesting is that AA cuts flights by 66% during a few weekdays on MIA-EWR and nothing close to that at MIA-LGA/JFK.

Because AA is much stronger at LGA/JFK! This isn't rocket science!
 
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:25 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):

Because AA is much stronger at LGA/JFK! This isn't rocket science!

Of course. I wrote that to put a fine point on the issue that AA considers EWR (and the state on the west side of the Hudson River) unimportant.

[Edited 2011-09-14 12:26:31]
 
ScottB
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:30 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
EWR-Florida should work, especially with a major cornerstone hub on one end and a cornerstone city on the other

Except that the overlap between traffic using EWR and LGA/JFK is somewhat limited. Also, CO has built up its non-stops to Latin America and the Caribbean from EWR, so the demand for connections via MIA has been impacted.
 
commavia
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:49 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 15):
I wrote that to put a fine point on the issue that AA considers EWR (and the state on the west side of the Hudson River) unimportant.

I don't know why everyone needs to make this so melodramatic.

It's not that AA views EWR as "unimportant" - it's that AA views themselves as uncompetitive, and doesn't see the need to lose money in a market where they will not be able to compete.

It's the same decision that every airline makes in every market constantly - do I feel that I am sufficiently competitive in this market to risk company resources competing here? AA made a decision - it seems like the financially prudent decision to me.
 
klwright69
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:58 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):
Quoting N62NA (Reply 15):
I wrote that to put a fine point on the issue that AA considers EWR (and the state on the west side of the Hudson River) unimportant.

I don't know why everyone needs to make this so melodramatic.

It's not that AA views EWR as "unimportant" - it's that AA views themselves as uncompetitive, and doesn't see the need to lose money in a market where they will not be able to compete.

It's the same decision that every airline makes in every market constantly - do I feel that I am sufficiently competitive in this market to risk company resources competing here? AA made a decision - it seems like the financially prudent decision to me.

Precisely. It has nothing to do with NJ being inferior or less sexy than NY or any other kind of nonsense. It's a matter of where to deploy finite resources.
 
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 18):

Precisely. It has nothing to do with NJ being inferior or less sexy than NY or any other kind of nonsense

History has shown otherwise.

Hourly flights to ORD? LGA

All widebodies to LAX/SFO? JFK

It's been like this going back 40 years (and that pre-dates CO/UA and even PeoplExpress).

Anyway, as I predicted two years ago (or so), AA would go RJ to ORD. (Done)

EWR-DFW dwindling.

And with EWR-LAX hanging by a thread, it's only a matter of time before that's gone.

And now this drastic cutback on MIA-EWR.

[Edited 2011-09-14 13:03:13]
 
tommy767
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:16 pm

I'm SURE this is just a seasonal reduction.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 9):
They view EWR as some backwater outpost. Minimal flights to DFW. Minimal flights to MIA. Minimal flights to ORD (and on RJs!). One flight to LAX (and on a 738!). This view of EWR really isn't anything new. All the legacies have, with the exception of CO (and now, via acquisition, UA), viewed EWR this way for decades.

EWR cuts by AA have been rather tragic. In 2005 AA flew EWR to DFW, ORD, MIA, EGE, SJU, and LAX. MQ flew BOS, RDU, and STL. However, if you think EWR has got it bad look up what AA has done to BOS and you'll be even more shocked. EWR was always just a station for AA, BOS was a flat out small hub now just a spoke city.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
But I am not sure why. I guess it is picking your battles. Both DL and AA (and even UA) were pretty sizeable at EWR up until 10 years ago.

UA had it's base at EWR up until 2006. LHR got cut in 2004, LAX got cut in 2008. UA/CO combined and now everyone is happy again.

If anything, DL has increased at EWR since the NW merger. They operate 30ish flights a day during the week out of EWR -- an easy #2 presence at the airport. They only thing they have cut in 10 years is unprofitable florida flying, but other cities like PHL, BWI, and now BDL are in the same boat.

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):
It's not that AA views EWR as "unimportant" - it's that AA views themselves as uncompetitive, and doesn't see the need to lose money in a market where they will not be able to compete.

AA is a shrinking airline outside of it's cornerstone hubs. EWR is the same as BOS, FLL, RDU, AUS, SEA, SFO in terms of overall non hub cuts. That's just how it is with AA.
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yellowtail
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:20 pm

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 5):
Indeed. #692 arrives in EWR at 3:40pm and heads back to MIA as #1559 the day after departing at 1:59pm.

I hope there is some maintenance done there or else this is horrible eqp utilization
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realsim
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:25 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):

And now this drastic cutback on MIA-EWR.

Well, it's true that in 2001 AA had 11 daily DFW-EWR flights (now 6), 10 daily ORD-EWR and 3 daily LAX-EWR (as well as BOS, STL and SJU). However, regarding MIA-EWR, they had 3 daily flights in summer 2001, and this summer they also have had 3 daily, so, unlike the other markets, MIA-EWR has not been downsized (they still have 3 daily 4 days each week, and I'm sure the cuts in the other days are only for this season).
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:36 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
And with EWR-LAX hanging by a thread, it's only a matter of time before that's gone.

Will you still be saying that three years from now when LAXEWR is still operating?

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
And now this drastic cutback on MIA-EWR.

Drastic? Seriously? Reducing day-of-week departures for seven weeks is drastic? It's back to the thrice-daily it's always been by November.

Fact is that not only is AA going to have less planes to use this fall as cabin refurb and WiFi installation sped up, but AA now has a pilot shortage that it stupidly did not seem to plan for.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
Anyway, as I predicted two years ago (or so), AA would go RJ to ORD. (Done)

Seasonally, yes. Mainline is back in April.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 20):
AA is a shrinking airline outside of it's cornerstone hubs. EWR is the same as BOS, FLL, RDU, AUS, SEA, SFO in terms of overall non hub cuts. That's just how it is with AA.

That's how it is with EVERY airline. Why is AA always singled out as if it's the only airline doing this? It's not.
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Cubsrule
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:36 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):
Except that the overlap between traffic using EWR and LGA/JFK is somewhat limited.

Sure, but it's not like CO has 50 flights a day at LGA.
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tommy767
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:40 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 23):

You are right, I was just proving a point that AA has shrunk at non hub station. In the early/mid 2000s AA was all about focus cities and now they could care less.
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:43 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 25):

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 23):

You are right, I was just proving a point that AA has shrunk at non hub station. In the early/mid 2000s AA was all about focus cities and now they could care less.


Indeed, but maybe they should have started doing this earlier. All other airlines were cutting back at focus cities well before AA, and they are all much stronger than AA today. The only significant P2P flying left, really, is Delta's regional affiliates, flying that has been building up in the past year or so because DL has way too many CRJs. And once those CRJ leases start to end, assured, that flying will go with it.
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realsim
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:46 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 20):
AA is a shrinking airline outside of it's cornerstone hubs. EWR is the same as BOS, FLL, RDU, AUS, SEA, SFO in terms of overall non hub cuts. That's just how it is with AA.

That's how it is with AA and with all the other legacies. IMO, even the people who usually criticize AA see it as the leading American airline because they ask AA more than they ask to the others. Otherwise I can't understand why AA is the only airline being blamed because they don't maintain 6 hubs and 6 focus cities.
 
tommy767
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:00 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 27):
That's how it is with AA and with all the other legacies. IMO, even the people who usually criticize AA see it as the leading American airline because they ask AA more than they ask to the others. Otherwise I can't understand why AA is the only airline being blamed because they don't maintain 6 hubs and 6 focus cities.

I don't really have an issue with AA -- I'm not trying to pick on them. I was just stating how they have shrunk at many non hub stations over the years and perhaps quicker in some ways than say DL, CO, or UA. UA and DL especially did a ton of downsizing during their bankruptcies in the early/mid 2000s. With AA, a lot of the downsizing has to do with the retirement of the A300s and ex-TWA 757s --- less overall slack in the fleet. Much of this downsizing took place between 2008 and today. It's fresh on all a.netters minds. AA back in 2007 had a larger domestic network.

However I think many like to pick on AA because of their stubborn and conservative upper management, crabby older F/A's, old fleet, the closing of the STL hub, and the controversial integration of TWA -- but all of that is for another thread.
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SCL767
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:06 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):
Also, CO has built up its non-stops to Latin America and the Caribbean from EWR, so the demand for connections via MIA has been impacted.

Remember that AA offers NYC customers non-stop flights to Latin America and the Caribbean at JFK. For example, AA operates *JFK-ANU, JFK-BGI, JFK-CCS, JFK-EZE, JFK-GIG, JFK-GRU, JFK-PAP, JFK-PLS, JFK-PUJ, JFK-SDQ, JFK-SJO, JFK-SJU, JFK-SKB, JFK-STI, JFK-STX, JFK-SXM, etc. and it has not affected the demand for connections between LGA/JFK and Latin America/Caribbean via MIA to some of the same destinations served non-stop from JFK.

*Starts in November.
 
commavia
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:17 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
Hourly flights to ORD? LGA

All widebodies to LAX/SFO? JFK

Wow - I didn't realize an entire airport could be crucified. I mean - seriously? Let's climb down off the cross - I don't know what is driving this illogical inferiority complex about EWR.

In the recent past, the airports on the New York side of the metro have generally been the focus for just about every major U.S. or foreign airline except those that hubbed at EWR. PeopleExpress, then Continental, hubbed at EWR - so their focus was there. United for about 15 years after deregulation drew on a historically somewhat strong presence at EWR, but that began to dwindle in the late 1990s as United shifted more emphasis to JFK, and then away from New York altogether.

Why is it such a big deal that a non-hub airline like AA has shrunk its presence at a mega hub dominated by another airline? What is the major newsflash here? Am I missing something? EWR is a great airport, with great access to a huge population center and some of the most convenient access to Manhattan, and it is the only true global network airline hub in the Tri-State area. So what is all this complaining about?

The bottom line is that EWR, by virtue of the fact that it is the only regional airport that has ever really had a true mega hub, has always been less of a focus for the non-hub carriers. That's just obvious. LGA hasn't had a truly dominant airline in the deregulated period; nor has JFK - and thus that more diffused and competitive dynamic has led to more flights by more airlines to those airports.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
Anyway, as I predicted two years ago (or so), AA would go RJ to ORD. (Done)

EWR-DFW dwindling.

And with EWR-LAX hanging by a thread, it's only a matter of time before that's gone.

And now this drastic cutback on MIA-EWR.

Well CRJs to ORD is - apparently - only seasonal. DFW is 5x daily mainline - competitive with United. LAX is still there, despite so many predictions to the contrary. And this MIA reduction is short-term and seasonal, during the slowest period of the year for Florida.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 26):
Indeed, but maybe they should have started doing this earlier. All other airlines were cutting back at focus cities well before AA, and they are all much stronger than AA today. The only significant P2P flying left, really, is Delta's regional affiliates, flying that has been building up in the past year or so because DL has way too many CRJs. And once those CRJ leases start to end, assured, that flying will go with it.

  

Perhaps this dramatic rehashing again and again about AA is driven by the fact that, up until about three years ago, AA actually did way more point-to-point flying than just about any other U.S. legacy carrier. AA in the last few years has basically just moved more towards the model that all the other legacies have had for far longer.



[Edited 2011-09-14 14:19:11]
 
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STT757
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:05 am

Quoting realsim (Reply 22):
Well, it's true that in 2001 AA had 11 daily DFW-EWR flights (now 6), 10 daily ORD-EWR and 3 daily LAX-EWR (as well as BOS, STL and SJU).

And EWR-LHR.
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RyanairGuru
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:27 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 30):
The bottom line is that EWR, by virtue of the fact that it is the only regional airport that has ever really had a true mega hub, has always been less of a focus for the non-hub carriers

Interesting statement.

While Atlanta and Philadelphia both have metro populations over 5 million, there is a pretty low chance of either having any significant international routes (beyond LHR, CDG and FRA) if DL and US were to quietly disappear. If you want to go down that route then I'd argue that ATL and PHL are equally "regional". Incidentally wiki states Newark as having a metro population of 18mn. Obviously that crosses over with New York but it is still a massive market.
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AAR90
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:23 am

The original question:

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
So... where does the 757 from AA #692 go once it gets to EWR? And where does the 757 that operates AA #1559 come from???

The acft currently assigned to fly AA1559 on 20Sep is currently scheduled to come from MIA as AA1382 on 19Sep.

The acft to be assigned to fly AA692 on 20Sep MIA-EWR is currently scheduled to depart as AA1559 on 21Sep.

Why? I haven't got a clue. Decisions at AA are made in Texas (with strong input from Tulsa, OK).
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COEWR2587
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:08 am

I remember flying this route as a kid with the A300. My first wide body ride
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:14 am

I don't think its anything against EWR personally at all. EWR is only inferior because its a true mega hub for Continental and DL and AA are trying to increase presence/connection power at JFK. The only true mega hub in tristate area is EWR! It has some of the highest fares in the country and has tons of premium fare paying traffic.

AA and DL just want to consolidate to offer more connection power and focus. For example EWR-EGE did fantastic at EWR for years on a 757 daily in the winter. It was only moved to JFK to offer connection power and to consolidate service. For o&d i heard that EWR was actually better from EWR to EGE but it makes sense to consolidate at JFK and offer connections which rake in more money.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
And with EWR-LAX hanging by a thread, it's only a matter of time before that's gone.

I really doubt that. AA is the only competition and has a non red eye service with excellent times for business traffic

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
All widebodies to LAX/SFO? JFK

Thats one airline operating a widebody and likely to change! If you believe the rumors JFK-LAX/SFO will be all narrow body too its only a matter of time given how unfuel efficient they are so i dont think thats a valid argument at all.
 
commavia
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:30 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 32):
Interesting statement.

While Atlanta and Philadelphia both have metro populations over 5 million, there is a pretty low chance of either having any significant international routes (beyond LHR, CDG and FRA) if DL and US were to quietly disappear. If you want to go down that route then I'd argue that ATL and PHL are equally "regional". Incidentally wiki states Newark as having a metro population of 18mn. Obviously that crosses over with New York but it is still a massive market.

I used the word "regional" to mean in the New York region, not a small airport. My point was that EWR was the only airport in the region that has ever served as a true mega network airline hub.
 
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STT757
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:46 am

VX has been trying to get into EWR for a while, if they suceed and launch EWR-LAX that might be the end of AA's EWR-LAX flight. And with regards to EWR DL has actually been pretty stable, they even operate the EWR-AMS flight for KLM. At somepoint DL may decide to ditch EWR-CVG and use those slots to open back up EWR-LAX. In the early - mid '90s DL was operating 3x daily EWR-LAX with the 762 in conjunction to JFK which was a single daily A310.
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commavia
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:19 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):
VX has been trying to get into EWR for a while, if they suceed and launch EWR-LAX that might be the end of AA's EWR-LAX flight.

I agree. If Virgin were to enter the EWR-LAX market, I suspect AA would leave. Then again, though, their 1 daily 737 isn't a whole lot of resource commitment in the market, and is timed well for certain connections, so who knows.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):
At somepoint DL may decide to ditch EWR-CVG and use those slots to open back up EWR-LAX. In the early - mid '90s DL was operating 3x daily EWR-LAX with the 762 in conjunction to JFK which was a single daily A310.

Perhaps, although I don't see why Delta would want to go up against the 800 lb gorilla in EWR-LAX, not to mention dilute their strong franchise at JFK, and especially if - hypothetically - Virgin were to enter the market.
 
tommy767
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:25 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):
And with regards to EWR DL has actually been pretty stable, they even operate the EWR-AMS flight for KLM. At somepoint DL may decide to ditch EWR-CVG and use those slots to open back up EWR-LAX. In the early - mid '90s DL was operating 3x daily EWR-LAX with the 762 in conjunction to JFK which was a single daily A310.

EWR-CVG will likely stick around because it is the only other competition on the route aside CO. It's going from 4x to 3x this fall but even so they are sticking a CR9 on the route with F class. Many of the CVG cuts have been from/to smaller cities whereas they've kept bigger cities around such as PHL, BWI, EWR, BOS, etc.

With LAX-PHL just added, I think it's only a matter of time before DL adds LAX-EWR -- as long as it doesn't take away feed from the SLC flights.
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WA707atMSP
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:35 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 39):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):
And with regards to EWR DL has actually been pretty stable, they even operate the EWR-AMS flight for KLM. At somepoint DL may decide to ditch EWR-CVG and use those slots to open back up EWR-LAX. In the early - mid '90s DL was operating 3x daily EWR-LAX with the 762 in conjunction to JFK which was a single daily A310.
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 39):
With LAX-PHL just added, I think it's only a matter of time before DL adds LAX-EWR -- as long as it doesn't take away feed from the SLC flights.

Let's see how long LAX-PHL lasts. It seems like another "Delta Dartboard" route, given that PHL has never been a major city for DL, and DL's on again / off again efforts at LAX.
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tommy767
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:09 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 40):
away feed from the SLC flights.
Let's see how long LAX-PHL lasts. It seems like another "Delta Dartboard" route, given that PHL has never been a major city for DL, and DL's on again / off again efforts at LAX.

I think it's less of a dartboard but rather throwing pieces of meat at a wall and seeing what sticks. Not sure how PHL would do. Seems like CMH, RDU are doing marginally well. BDL is a goner. If DL ever launched it I think they would have a good shot to make LAX-EWR work.
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klwright69
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:58 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 35):
I don't think its anything against EWR personally at all. EWR is only inferior because its a true mega hub for Continental and DL and AA are trying to increase presence/connection power at JFK. The only true mega hub in tristate area is EWR! It has some of the highest fares in the country and has tons of premium fare paying traffic.

You are absolutely correct. Some are responding to the statement that EWR is a "backwater outpost," when that is not the issue at all.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:23 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):
In the early - mid '90s DL was operating 3x daily EWR-LAX with the 762 in conjunction to JFK which was a single daily A310.

The competitive environment at EWR was much different 20 years ago than it is now.

At that time, CO was still dealing with operational issues related to the CO / PE / NY merger in 1987, and had filed Chapter XI for the 2nd time. CO was so unreliable that they were seen as an airline of last resort by most business travellers.

Today, CO is the first choice airline for most business travellers in northern NJ, not the last choice - and that will make it much harder for DL to get a significant amount of EWR originating traffic. As I mentioned in my earlier posting, DL's on again / off again approach to LAX gives them a credibility problem at the other end of the route. Why would an LAX originating business traveller make DL their airline of choice, when they know there is a good chance DL will walk away from LAX, as they have done several times in the past, and when they also know that UA / CO is unlikely to ever suspend LAX-EWR.
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klwright69
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:13 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 41):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 40):
away feed from the SLC flights.
Let's see how long LAX-PHL lasts. It seems like another "Delta Dartboard" route, given that PHL has never been a major city for DL, and DL's on again / off again efforts at LAX.

I think it's less of a dartboard but rather throwing pieces of meat at a wall and seeing what sticks. Not sure how PHL would do. Seems like CMH, RDU are doing marginally well. BDL is a goner. If DL ever launched it I think they would have a good shot to make LAX-EWR work.

Is there any proof that DL has any interest in LAX-EWR?
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:16 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 38):
I agree. If Virgin were to enter the EWR-LAX market, I suspect AA would leave. Then again, though, their 1 daily 737 isn't a whole lot of resource commitment in the market, and is timed well for certain connections, so who knows.

AA isn't leaving EWRLAX, which is not only important to serve from it's Los Angeles hub, but a key Qantas feeder route.
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tommy767
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:33 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 44):
Is there any proof that DL has any interest in LAX-EWR?

It's a rumor that has floated around a.net for a little while now.
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N62NA
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:51 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 35):
Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):All widebodies to LAX/SFO? JFKThats one airline operating a widebody and likely to change! If you believe the rumors JFK-LAX/SFO will be all narrow body too its only a matter of time given how unfuel efficient they are so i dont think thats a valid argument at all.

I was referring to the past 40 years.

JFK got all widebodies from UA, AA and TW (747s and D10/L10)
EWR would get 707s (AA and TW) and DC-8s (UA) and sometimes D10s (UA/AA) and during the really "lucky" years, UA flight 35 would be a 747 for a few months.
 
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:54 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 42):
You are absolutely correct. Some are responding to the statement that EWR is a "backwater outpost," when that is not the issue at all.

As viewed consistently through the last 40 years by AA, UA, DL, NW and TW, EWR has been second fiddle to JFK/LGA.

CO is the only legacy carrier that ever committed resources to EWR.

So this talk of "well, CO (UA) has a super hub at EWR, that's why nobody else really flies there" is true of today, however the other airliners I mentioned never gave the possibilities of EWR a second look (or first look for that matter) prior to the buildup of the CO hub at EWR.
 
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RE: AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:09 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 45):
AA isn't leaving EWRLAX, which is not only important to serve from it's Los Angeles hub, but a key Qantas feeder route.

I have no idea about the QF feed, but if LAX-EWR was so important, why doesn't it merit the same 762 "trans con flagship service" (or whatever AA calls it) that goes out of JFK? They tried it a year or two ago and apparently nobody was paying for F.

And.. if LAX-EWR is so important, then the "all important business man" who demands frequency must tailer his (or her) schedule around a single flight?