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Fiveholer
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CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:42 pm

I just had a look and it seems the first 764 (AC#60) for CO/UA is scheduled to be the first aircraft for the "new" flatbeds! Looks like she is due to be started on the 13th of October in HKG. I think the 777s took about a month to be completed so with 15 fewer seats, I would think the 764 might be a little quicker but with adding AVOD to the enitre aircraft, things might take a little longer. We'll see!

Danny

[Edited 2011-09-14 10:43:04]
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kfitz
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:44 pm

great info, fiveholer!

Should be interesting to see how the middle seat in the 2-1-2 layout looks!
 
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Fiveholer
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:47 pm

Has anyone ever thought that maybe they might go 1-2-1? That way, everyone gets an aisle seat!
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ULMFlyer
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:10 pm

I was eagerly awaiting this, since I fly these 764s on the IAH-GIG route frequently.

But then I had my first experience with a flatbed on a 752 to Europe and ended up with mixed feelings. The AVOD is great, but the seats are a lot narrower, which is not an issue for me, but I can see being one for some heavier pax. However, I felt they weren't long enough to accommodate my 6'4" frame, which resulted in sleeping with bent knees that kept hitting the seat's frame.

I don't know, maybe I just need to get used to them and avoid row 1 on the 752, which seemed to have slightly less pitch than row 2.
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kfitz
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:33 pm

I believe they confirmed 2-1-2, no?

On a sidenotd, the 763/764 (3-cabin and 2-cabin) will probably be the most comfortable intl. equipment in the fleet. On the 3 cabin IPTE 763s, you have what is arguably the most private F cabin fleet wide in 1-1-1. 1k and 2K offer almost total isolation (due to the high walls from 1/2B), and 2-2-2 in C is far better than 2-4-2 on the 777/744, and Y 2-3-2 remains fabulous. The 2 cabin equipment should be even better in Y with AVOD. I do wonder if they will seitch out the old bins on the remaining ghetto 763 and 764, and if so, would it extend to the Y cabin (as it doesn't on the 3-cabin 763. )
 
gigneil
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:39 pm

So are we 100% sure that there will be no 764s getting 3 classes?

It seems like a real lay-up to put 3 class on the 764 and operate it to Europe, and free up some 777s.

NS
 
sulley
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:40 pm



Quoting kfitz (Reply 4):
I believe they confirmed 2-1-2, no?

They did confirm this, yes.

Quote:
On a sidenotd, the 763/764 (3-cabin and 2-cabin) will probably be the most comfortable intl. equipment in the fleet. On the 3 cabin IPTE 763s, you have what is arguably the most private F cabin fleet wide in 1-1-1. 1k and 2K offer almost total isolation (due to the high walls from 1/2B), and 2-2-2 in C is far better than 2-4-2 on the 777/744, and Y 2-3-2 remains fabulous. The 2 cabin equipment should be even better in Y with AVOD. I do wonder if they will seitch out the old bins on the remaining ghetto 763 and 764, and if so, would it extend to the Y cabin (as it doesn't on the 3-cabin 763. )


Agreed about the comfort. The 764s all have the new style bins (they are some of the newest 767s off the line), but I have heard that the bins in PMUA aircraft will be upgraded in all cabins for a more consistent product experience. I never undertsood why it wasn't done in the first place.

[Edited 2011-09-14 11:41:55]
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gigneil
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:42 pm

I never can either. Also, why the Y class seats didn't get AVOD.

When they redo the bins in the PMUA 763s, do you think that might get an upgrade too?

NS
 
sldispatcher
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:10 pm

It would only be an assumption, but I suppose E+ will be done at the same time? Seems like that would be the most efficient thing to do.
 
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Fiveholer
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:16 pm

Quoting Sulley (Reply 6):
Quoting kfitz (Reply 4):
I believe they confirmed 2-1-2, no?

They did confirm this, yes.

Yeah, forgot about that.
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:16 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 5):
So are we 100% sure that there will be no 764s getting 3 classes?

It seems like a real lay-up to put 3 class on the 764 and operate it to Europe, and free up some 777s.

It may be more the layout of the aircraft that precludes F service. If F is added, Business would have to either lose seats or go past door number 2.
Additionally, the 1-1-1 configuration of F in the 767 wastes more space than in a 777 or 747.

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 2):
Has anyone ever thought that maybe they might go 1-2-1? That way, everyone gets an aisle seat!

That would mean only 4 vs. 5 across. But, it brings up a thought. If the 764 had 1-2-2 seating vs. 2-1-2 it would mean only one person would not have aisle access vs. two. Then it could be advertised as two window seats and four aisle seats (as one seat would be both a window and aisle seat).

Of course, there are bulkheads and other issues that may make 1-2-2 not feasible.

[Edited 2011-09-14 12:25:52]
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washingtonian
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:39 pm

Quoting kfitz (Reply 4):
I do wonder if they will seitch out the old bins on the remaining ghetto 763 and 764, and if so, would it extend to the Y cabin (as it doesn't on the 3-cabin 763. )
Quoting Sulley (Reply 6):
but I have heard that the bins in PMUA aircraft will be upgraded in all cabins for a more consistent product experience.

On the 14 PMUA 763s about to be converted, or the other 21 PMUA 763s that already have the new IPTE? Those 21 birds need the new bins and AVOD in the back, and then United will have a very consistent product--all international aircraft will have lie-flat seats up front, and AVOD throughout. Plus Channel 9 and Y+, and that's one heck of a product offering!
 
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STT757
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:56 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 5):
So are we 100% sure that there will be no 764s getting 3 classes?

They announced that 12 764s are going to be getting the new Businessfirst seats plus AVOD, 4 764s will remain in their "Pacific" configuration and operate IAH-HNL, DEN-HNL and SFO-HNL.
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codc10
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:16 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
4 764s will remain in their "Pacific" configuration and operate IAH-HNL, DEN-HNL and SFO-HNL.

EWR-HNL is expected to remain 76H for the time being. This will allow for a pretty comfortable 4-airplane rotation.
 
ikramerica
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:19 pm

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 3):
But then I had my first experience with a flatbed on a 752 to Europe and ended up with mixed feelings. The AVOD is great, but the seats are a lot narrower, which is not an issue for me, but I can see being one for some heavier pax. However, I felt they weren't long enough to accommodate my 6'4" frame, which resulted in sleeping with bent knees that kept hitting the seat's frame.

CO's 752 cradle seat was very comfortable. Not a lot of adjustment but just the right shape when fully reclined. Sleeping in a recliner is not hard if it tilts the seat. I know the push is for all flat beds in J, but a PROPER cradle (not just a seat bottom that remains level while the back and legrest move) is more comfortable than many of these new flatbed products that are being creative with space at the expense of width, room for mens' feet, seat firmness, etc.
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codc10
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:40 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 14):

CO's 752 cradle seat was very comfortable.

For the life of me I can't ever remember a 757 BF seat that tilted up to a cradle. The seat pan always remained level, to the best of my recollection. The 2nd generation 777 BF seats (2002-2010) did in fact cradle, though.
 
ikramerica
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:11 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 15):
For the life of me I can't ever remember a 757 BF seat that tilted up to a cradle. The seat pan always remained level, to the best of my recollection. The 2nd generation 777 BF seats (2002-2010) did in fact cradle, though.

It absolutely did. Not a great deal, but enough that it prevented slide down. It was also a softer seat that you sunk into a little bit. The 767 did not have these characteristics. Worst seat by far. The 777 didn't either but reclined more and was better than the 767.

When flying TATL I would avoid the 767 at all costs, trying to find a route with a 757 or 777.
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ULMFlyer
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:58 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 16):
It absolutely did. Not a great deal, but enough that it prevented slide down.

Interesting. I only flew once on a 752 with the previous BF seats, on an EWR-MAD trip, and I cannot remember this feature. But I can totally see how what you described would make it much more comfortable than the current 764 seats.

Another issue with the new flatbeds (and something that the F/As warned us about on our EWR-LIS leg, but not inbound) is that if you put something like a cell phone or a passport on the tray in front of you and they fly under your seat during takeoff, it's a pain to retrieve it. Your best bet is waiting for the item to show up, when the plane brakes on arrival.
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aklrno
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:40 pm

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 17):
Another issue with the new flatbeds (and something that the F/As warned us about on our EWR-LIS leg, but not inbound) is that if you put something like a cell phone or a passport on the tray in front of you and they fly under your seat during takeoff, it's a pain to retrieve it. Your best bet is waiting for the item to show up, when the plane brakes on arrival.

You fly on an airline where you aren't told to stow everything and put up the table before take-off? That's one of the reasons for that rule.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:16 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 13):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
4 764s will remain in their "Pacific" configuration and operate IAH-HNL, DEN-HNL and SFO-HNL.

EWR-HNL is expected to remain 76H for the time being. This will allow for a pretty comfortable 4-airplane rotation.

Not sure if it's too comfortable with all flights daily, but it's a heck of a rotation with several swapout opportunities at HNL. My guess is this could be permanent even though the CO 764 has only 12 more total seats than the UA 763H. If Y+ is added, the difference would be only 5 total seats.

All four 764s are in HNL every evening with one laying over from as early as 1410 to 0745. Average utilization on the fleet is 14.7 hours per day per aircraft. All maintenance is done in HNL.
Here's the rotation.
HNL 0745 SFO 1452-1630 HNL 2002-2300 DEN 0849
DEN 1200 HNL 1632-1925 EWR 1000
EWR 1135 HNL 1540-1910 IAH 0645
IAH 0935 HNL 1410
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gigneil
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:35 am

With such a small difference in seats, why couldn't they do better on the CO 764s? Is it spacing in the BizFirst cabin?

Don't get me wrong - I think such a long flight deserves a better seat up front and more overall comfort in the cabin, and I wouldn't want them to change a thing about that. But could they lay the cabin out better?

NS
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:05 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 20):
With such a small difference in seats, why couldn't they do better on the CO 764s? Is it spacing in the BizFirst cabin?

Don't get me wrong - I think such a long flight deserves a better seat up front and more overall comfort in the cabin, and I wouldn't want them to change a thing about that. But could they lay the cabin out better?

NS

The 764 has just 4 rows of 5 across BF with 55 inch pitch - total 20 seats. Compare that with the 34 seats on UA763ER (6 across at 38 inch pitch). The 764 would have to be a better ride up front, but has only 20 vs. 34 seats. I guess that means fewer upgrades.

With the ability to upgrade people to 56 Y+ seats, the UA 763H might be way too many seats (90 F plus Y+) to try to sell or have for upgrades on the low yield route. Of course, it looks like this UA 763 config is going away in favor of a two class International config.

On the other hand, the 764 right now doesn't have Y+. Looking at the seat map, the 5 rows of 32 inch pitch Y in front of Door 2 would go to over 38 inches with a row pulled. Maybe that doesn't change and Y+ goes behind Door 2, where 7 rows at 36 could replace 8 rows at 32 inch pitch.

Based on the seating arrangement and the 764Hs looking like they will be locked into HNL flying, I would not be surprised if these aircraft remain in present config until they are potentially reconfigured into true international configuration somewhere down the road like the other 12 764s. If they get lie flats, another option would be 25BF and three rows of Y+ in front of Door 2.
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gigneil
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:18 am

I'm just having a hard time understanding why they are so close to each other in seating when a 764 SHOULD be much larger.

Why would anyone buy a 764?

NS
 
codc10
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RE: CO/UA 764 Flatbed Installation....

Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:42 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 22):



I'm just having a hard time understanding why they are so close to each other in seating when a 764 SHOULD be much larger.

Why would anyone buy a 764?

NS

The CO 76H is still internationally-configured. In a similar configuration to UA's 767-300ER domestic ships, the 764 would seat about 270. The F cabin on the UA 'ghetto birds' is not very pleasant.

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