qfa787380
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QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:50 pm

As indicated in this article:

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/trav...r-longest-haul-20110914-1k961.html

It would appear that "today's" 380 is not capable of performing this route(I assume with an adequate payload) and possible "future" 380s may be in the longer term. A little bit unclear as to what that actually means but surely the 380 today should be capable of this route if the 744ER is. It's a strange one and a bit of a mystery to me.
 
qf002
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:14 am

Quoting QFA787380 (Thread starter):
It would appear that "today's" 380 is not capable of performing this route(I assume with an adequate payload)

Not sure where you're deducing this from (though I haven't watched the video) -- don't see it mentioned in the article at all??

Today's A380s have more range than the 744ER's, so I can't imagine what the problem is... I'm personally in favour of moving to daily 747s over the next 12 months, then upgauging to daily A380s in 2013/14 when they get those last 2 A380s (which will definitely be capable of the flight). Longer term, maybe move to a daily nonstop 789 in both directions to SYD then a 3-4 weekly BNE flight to maintain capacity but facilitate the SYD market better.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:32 am

Quoting QFA787380 (Thread starter):
It would appear that "today's" 380 is not capable of performing this route(I assume with an adequate payload) and possible "future" 380s may be in the longer term

No it didn't imply that at all. What it stated was the route can support more than a 787, which is of course true, you're plugging into one of the biggest feed hubs in the world, from the world's largest economy. The problem with the A380 I would suggest has more to do with even higher demand elsewhere, particularly premium heavy. They are tied up elsewhere and any shift of them would mean either LHR or LAX has to miss out on their best 'first' offering plus the extra capacity. The 3 Class A380s coming are needed, most likely for either Brisbane to LAX or Singapore to Frankfurt. My money is on BNE-LAX, though nothing in the article said they wouldn't go to DFW. This is also a strong possibility, I wouldn't rule it out.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:36 am

The A380 should be able to do this route as well or better than the 744ER in a purely range/payload respect. However, I suspect that the A380 is premium heavy, more so than the 744 and the DFW market is not yet ready for that. I look for the flight to become daily, as QF and AA use this route to feed the eastern US, bypassing LAX and leaving it for more OD traffic. Eventually perhaps an A380, but not in the near future.

UAL
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qf002
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:44 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
However, I suspect that the A380 is premium heavy, more so than the 744

While there are a lot of F/J seats, it's actually not really when compared to the 744ERs. 26% of seats in a 744ER are F/J seats, while under 20% of seats in a QF A380 are F/J. There are roughly the same number of W seats in both. I'm not sure exactly what the cosmetic configuration for the SYD-DFW flight is (it's sold as 3 class on a 4 class aircraft), but I doubt that the A380 would be more premium heavy in comparison.
 
col
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:22 am

Quoting QFA787380 (Thread starter):
It would appear that "today's" 380 is not capable of performing this route(I assume with an adequate payload) and possible "future" 380s may be in the longer term.

The article does not say this, it does say however that the 744ER has to stop at BNE and has been diverted sometimes, because it cannot make it.

Quoting QFA787380 (Thread starter):
A little bit unclear as to what that actually means but surely the 380 today should be capable of this route if the 744ER is.

It means that you need to read an article without that Boeing bias, for some reason it changes the facts written to something completely different to you.

Quoting QFA787380 (Thread starter):
It's a strange one and a bit of a mystery to me.

Sadly, for us who have read your topics and replies it is the same ole, same ole and no mystery at all.


One thing it does say is that the route is planned to go 380 in the future, sorry for the bad news my friend.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:30 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 4):
I'm not sure exactly what the cosmetic configuration for the SYD-DFW flight is (it's sold as 3 class on a 4 class aircraft),

This was discussed about 2 weeks ago, but I've forgotten the specifics of what was said.

F is sold as J
Some (not all) J is sold as W
Some (/all?) W is sold as Y to Platinum FFs etc

Only a relatively small number of W seats are actually available for sale. 24 of the top of my head.
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thegeek
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:42 am

Once VH-OQA returns to service, there should be 12 A380s in regular QF service. There may be deferred maintenance to catch up on (not sure on that one), but I figure they should have 2 which can rotate into maintenance. Could they live with only one plane out of route service at any one time until VH-OQM arrives in approx 2013?
 
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Stitch
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:51 am

Range at MZFW for a (569t TOW) A380-800 is 6500nm compared to 6250nm for the 747-400ER, however with QF's lower-density four class configuration, I should expect the A380-800 would have no real problems with diversions.

QF has deferred their last tranche of A380s (until the end of the decade?) so I am guessing they feel the 747-400 is the right amount of capacity on this route for the time being.
 
Gemuser
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:09 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
QF has deferred their last tranche of A380s (until the end of the decade?) so I am guessing they feel the 747-400 is the right amount of capacity on this route for the time being.

Not quite.

QF have deferred 6 of the second order (which was for 8 total), they still have 2 of the first order to be delivered and 2 of the second order that are not deferred, giving a total of 14 at end of 2012/early 2013.

SYD/MEL-LHR will require 6 aircraft, SYD/MEL-LAX 4 aircraft (assumes second daily SYD-LAX stays B744) , for a total of 10. That leaves 4 for other routes/maintenance. Assume one aircraft for maintenance, that leaves 3 aircraft available. No body really known how they will be deployed, but some possibilities are:
2 on SYD-DFW
1 on SYD-AND OLD: Hong Kong - Kai Tak International (HKG / VHHH) (closed), China - Hong Kong">HKG
OR
3 on SYD-SIN-FRA

This leaves the B744ERs on SYD-LAX (2), SYD-JNB (2) AND SYD-SCL (1 +)
This leaves the B744s on SYD-BKK/NRT
Everything else is A330/B787

So it's quite feasable that SYD-DFW could be A380 by sometime in 2013. But who knows!

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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:15 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
QF has deferred their last tranche of A380s (until the end of the decade?) so I am guessing they feel the 747-400 is the right amount of capacity on this route for the time being.

I suspect the cash flow business case told QF that buying more A380s is too expensive short term.  

It could also be the aircraft availability. The best economics will be with daily operation of one aircraft type. I just do not see where/how QF could release the needed A380s for a daily SYD-DFW. I do see how the 744ERs will become available.

Ghad, I found old links noting that QF should have received their first 787s in 2008!
http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...-eight-787-deliveries-forward-0714

I'm happy to see the 787 finally delivered. 2014 for the first in QF's full colors (the 2012 deliveries will be JetStar per the links I found).

Lightsaber
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qfa787380
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:35 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 1):
Not sure where you're deducing this from (though I haven't watched the video) -- don't see it mentioned in the article at all??
Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 2):
No it didn't imply that at all.
Quoting col (Reply 5):
The article does not say this, it does say however that the 744ER has to stop at BNE and has been diverted sometimes, because it cannot make it.

well how do you all interpret this direct from the article?:

"Mr Strambi said the route may be served longer term by an Airbus A380 capable of making the 13,804-kilometre journey across the Pacific."

I will acknowledge that this is confusing but certainly can be read as the 380 now doesn't have the range for this route. Is he saying they may use the 380 at a later date and it is already capable for this route or is he saying they need a longer ranged 380 for this route in the future? My information is that one way or the other and it's not due to lack of capacity, is that QF are not comfortable with the 380 on this route.
 
qf002
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:42 am

Quoting col (Reply 5):
One thing it does say is that the route is planned to go 380 in the future, sorry for the bad news my friend.

No it doesn't. It simply indicates that there is a possibility that the A380 will be well suited to the route.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
This was discussed about 2 weeks ago, but I've forgotten the specifics of what was said.

I remember reading about it -- in the QF8 diversion thread I think (cbfed to go trawling for it). I still seem to remember it was around 60+ J seats overall including the F seats, which would mean it's still got more premium seats proportionately.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 7):
Could they live with only one plane out of route service at any one time until VH-OQM arrives in approx 2013?

They need 10 at bare minimum to take SIN-LHR and LAX to daily from SYD/MEL. There has been rotating mx ongoing at FRA (about 6 weeks iirc) so without OQA that's the capacity of the fleet. There's no way in my mind that they can fit a daily DFW rotation in with the initial 12. A380 to DFW is only going to happen in 2013-14 in my eyes.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
QF has deferred their last tranche of A380s (until the end of the decade?) so I am guessing they feel the 747-400 is the right amount of capacity on this route for the time being.

That's not necessarily true. They've deferred 6 because they've essentially cut 6 planes worth of flying in the BKK/HKG routes, so simply do not need them while they still have the newer 747s flying.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
I suspect the cash flow business case told QF that buying more A380s is too expensive short term.

Yet they can afford to be ordering 100+ A320s? If they needed the planes then they'd have taken them, but they just don't need to spend that money at this stage.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:51 am

Quoting QFA787380 (Thread starter):
It would appear that "today's" 380 is not capable of performing this route

Glad you brought this up, as I thought the same thing when I read the article.

If we go back to the arguments QF were having with Rolls Royce about the engine failure on the A380, QF stated the A380 was payload restricted on the SYD-LAX route with standard thrust settings on the Trents. This is why they have higher thrust version of the engine (Sorry, tried finding an article and couldn't).

If this is the case than it is plausible the A380 might not have the MoJo for the longer SYD-DFW route. Goes against our A.Net convention, but it might be the case.
 
qf002
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:57 am

Quoting QFA787380 (Reply 11):
well how do you all interpret this direct from the article?:

"Mr Strambi said the route may be served longer term by an Airbus A380 capable of making the 13,804-kilometre journey across the Pacific."

I will acknowledge that this is confusing but certainly can be read as the 380 now doesn't have the range for this route. Is he saying they may use the 380 at a later date and it is already capable for this route or is he saying they need a longer ranged 380 for this route in the future? My information is that one way or the other and it's not due to lack of capacity, is that QF are not comfortable with the 380 on this route.

I interpret that as exactly what he says. That the route may end up with an A380 some time in the future. It doesn't say which A380s would be used -- it could easily be the current ones taking up the route in 2 years time.

The article also talks about their desire to bring the flight to daily first, so I think he's ruling out an A380 serving DFW until such a time that the capacity has reached a level where it can support the A380 -- effectively ruling out an A380 till at least the end of next year/2013 anyway...
 
Lufthansa
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:10 am

Quoting travelhound (Reply 13):
If this is the case than it is plausible the A380 might not have the MoJo for the longer SYD-DFW route. Goes against our A.Net convention, but it might be the case.

Not quite as simple as that. The runway length at LAX is also a factor. They need the extra thrust to be able to carry the full payload + the extra fuel... otherwise they wouldn't get off the runway in time. DFW on the otherhand is a ginormous airport (I love that word but I don't think it is proper english!) and it has 4 runways that are over 4 km's long.(and additional smaller ones too!) LAX doesn't have any runways close to that length. Both cities can get very hot in the middle of summer and of course this effects take off performance. Hence the need for the extra thrust out of the big bird.
 
qfa787380
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:10 am

Quoting travelhound (Reply 13):
Glad you brought this up, as I thought the same thing when I read the article.

Thanks for your support! All I was trying to point out was the apparent double meaning here.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 14):
I interpret that as exactly what he says. That the route may end up with an A380 some time in the future. It doesn't say which A380s would be used -- it could easily be the current ones taking up the route in 2 years time.

Well, we interpret it differently. But if the 380 was really suited to this route I think there may have been something more decisive from QF before this.
 
qf002
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:25 am

Quoting travelhound (Reply 13):
might not have the MoJo for the longer SYD-DFW route. Goes against our A.Net convention, but it might be the case.

Also goes against the official figures published by Boeing and Airbus regarding the range of these aircraft...

Quoting QFA787380 (Reply 16):
Thanks for your support! All I was trying to point out was the apparent double meaning here.

Sorry if we shot you down!! I can see where you're coming from, but this isn't a direct quote from Qantas and seems a bit far fetched for me. I think the wording is just the result of a journalist who doesn't know about the significance of the wording of that statement.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:29 am

[quote=QFA787380,reply=

I also concur with you. Strambi stated " The route may be served longer term by an A380 "capable". To me, this means that it is "incapable" at this time.

No need to throw up stats on the A380 capabilities.
 
qf002
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:48 am

Quoting legacyins (Reply 18):

[quote=QFA787380,reply=

I also concur with you. Strambi stated " The route may be served longer term by an A380 "capable". To me, this means that it is "incapable" at this time.

But that's not a direct quote in the article. It's a paraphrase by a reporter who has zero idea of the significance of what he's written (for heavens sake, in the video he claims that QF is "Customer Number 2" for the 787!)
 
LAXintl
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 15):
LAX doesn't have any runways close to that length. Both cities can get very hot in the middle of summer and of course this effects take off performance. Hence the need for the extra thrust out of the big bird.

You cannot compare atmospherics between inland DFW and coastal LAX as they are two vastly different situations.

LAX rarely seems temps above 25-30C as its at the ocean. Matter of fact with QF near midnight departures are much lower - tonight a summer evening its only 18C as of 9pm at the airport.
DFW temps at QF departure time can still be close to 40C - last night it was 36C at QF8 departure time of 10pm.

LAX has 12,000ft runways which are plenty including for other carriers on even longer ULH flights. DFW has the long runways for a reason - they know performance is killed by its slight altitude and high temps - even an MD-80 going to the West Coast (2.5hr flight) can struggle on the warmest days.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Lufthansa
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:19 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
You cannot compare atmospherics between inland DFW and coastal LAX as they are two vastly different situations.

True, just like some other hot places, like DXB also need 'extra' distance. But the runway length specifically was the reason why QF ordered the higher thrust version of the RR trent that LH and SQ didn't need. The other long flights operated out of lax either aren't quite as long has Sydney, or are on smaller lighter aircraft not needing quite as much runway as the big bus. That being said, outside the very hottest part of summer, that extra distance at DFW should help the 380 be able to make it to Australia. During the very hottest part...the A380 is obviously, like the 744 also...subject to some additional performance restrictions. It's really only an issue for the very largest of aircraft pushed to the very limits of their performance... like Australia- USA flights often do... and only under certain weather conditions. Not saying there is a problem with LAX's runways... just the 380 needed the extra thrust. If they were only flying it to Auckland, not pushing it as far as Melbourne, it wouldn't have been an issue.
 
eaglefarm4
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:54 am

As i have previously said on another airliner net post BNE-LAX will become a A380 flight 3 times a week from mid 2012.
Management contacts at QF BNE have been aware of this for past 6 months.Sure plans can change but as of a month ago they hadn't.

So Lufthansa i agree.
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thegeek
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:54 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 21):
But the runway length specifically was the reason why QF ordered the higher thrust version of the RR trent that LH and SQ didn't need.

So then we can eliminate the possibility that QF has 569t A380s? No one has actually known the answer to that so far.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 12):
They need 10 at bare minimum to take SIN-LHR and LAX to daily from SYD/MEL. There has been rotating mx ongoing at FRA (about 6 weeks iirc) so without OQA that's the capacity of the fleet. There's no way in my mind that they can fit a daily DFW rotation in with the initial 12. A380 to DFW is only going to happen in 2013-14 in my eyes.

I was thinking of a 3pw SYD-DFW-SYD A380 flight combined with the 4pw SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD 744ER flight, for a daily flight SYD->DFW and DFW->Oz. That would only require 1 A380 to be allocated to the route.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:56 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 15):
The runway length at LAX is also a factor.

Yes, I now remember that as being a factor for the higher thrust engines.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):
Also goes against the official figures published by Boeing and Airbus regarding the range of these aircraft...

Yes, but those numbers are generic and not mission specific. In either case both aircraft are at the limits of their range. Theoretically, one more than the other!

Quoting QFA787380 (Thread starter):
It would appear that "today's" 380 is not capable
Quoting legacyins (Reply 18):
I also concur with you
Quoting qf002 (Reply 19):
But that's not a direct quote in the article.

Regardless, of how we interpret the article it does pose the question.
 
col
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:31 am

"Mr Strambi said the route may be served longer term by an Airbus A380 capable of making the 13,804-kilometre journey across the Pacific."

"Due to headwinds travelling west back to Australia, the flight back to Sydney stops via Brisbane.
There have been a number of diversions during the first few months of operation, with the Dallas/Fort Worth to Brisbane route forced to make stops in Auckland, New Caledonia and Fiji due to stronger-than-expected headwinds or bad weather."

Maybe it is me, but it reads that the A380 is capable of making the route. The later comment shows that the 744ER has issues. The route may be served by A380 in the longer term also points to this happening as the 380's later in the decade are due to replace the 744ER's. The big problem could be the Australian use of English, there is a Strine Dictionary available which can explain a lot  
 
Lufthansa
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:49 am

Quoting col (Reply 25):
The big problem could be the Australian use of English, there is a Strine Dictionary available which can explain a lot

Cheeky! especially when you consider the dialect spoken to our north, particularly from the Singapore and Malaysian chinese is known as singlish and chinglish!
 
qf002
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:57 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 23):
So then we can eliminate the possibility that QF has 569t A380s? No one has actually known the answer to that so far.

They are coming in 2013/14. It has always been very publicly stated that the second order for the last 8 were for 569t aircraft -- frames 13 and 14 are part of this final order, and hence it is clear that they will be the upgraded 569t model. As it stands, they have no 569t aircraft.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 23):
I was thinking of a 3pw SYD-DFW-SYD A380 flight combined with the 4pw SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD 744ER flight, for a daily flight SYD->DFW and DFW->Oz. That would only require 1 A380 to be allocated to the route.

Ah-kay. I doubt that an A380 could make it nonstop from DFW-SYD, especially with the current frames though. So using A380s doesn't really add anything (okay, apart from a superior product, but that's coming in the 744ER's very very soon), rather it complicates many things, including crew scheduling etc. It's also a big amount of growth from what they have today. Adding three weekly flights to go to daily is a big jump in capacity in any case, but to then go beyond that and add 150 seats to 3 flights (450 seats a week) very quickly might be dangerous. They also wouldn't be able to start this till the end of next year in any case (purely due to a lack of frames), and the rumors of starting flights out of BNE to LAX seem to be more convincing for now. Having said that, we never know!! (and I can't wait to see A380s in DFW in any case   )

Quoting travelhound (Reply 24):
Regardless, of how we interpret the article it does pose the question.

Nup, the article doesn't pose the question at all. It's your interpretation that poses the question 
 
CBRboy
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:56 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
Quoting qf002 (Reply 4):
I'm not sure exactly what the cosmetic configuration for the SYD-DFW flight is (it's sold as 3 class on a 4 class aircraft),

This was discussed about 2 weeks ago, but I've forgotten the specifics of what was said.

F is sold as J
Some (not all) J is sold as W
Some (/all?) W is sold as Y to Platinum FFs etc

Only a relatively small number of W seats are actually available for sale. 24 of the top of my head.
Quoting qf002 (Reply 12):
I remember reading about it -- in the QF8 diversion thread I think (cbfed to go trawling for it). I still seem to remember it was around 60+ J seats overall including the F seats, which would mean it's still got more premium seats proportionately.

Ditzyboy said at reply 156 to my post on QF8 that "the cosmetic config for this flight is 66J/26W/215Y".
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:06 pm

Quoting travelhound (Reply 13):
QF stated the A380 was payload restricted on the SYD-LAX route with standard thrust settings on the Trents. This is why they have higher thrust version of the engine (Sorry, tried finding an article and couldn't).

  

As an engine nut I should have remembered that detail. Of course the A388 would be a bad choice until the highest thrust is available and *known* to be durable.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 12):
Yet they can afford to be ordering 100+ A320s?

Cashflow from Ops not based in Australia is projected to have more growth. Afford isn't a precise enough word... We could say that with the immenant 787 delives, the business case leaned toward preserving cash and keeping the 747ERs. QF probably had a choice of one or the other. Right now, per my prior link, QF is working to remove the 767s from the fleet. That requires the 787s to Jetstar to free up the A332s for QF.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 27):
also wouldn't be able to start this till the end of next year in any case (purely due to a lack of frames),

And the frames would probably best be utilized on other routes until DFW is a 'more mature' route. (Read, higher yeilding.) I suspect these routes will go A380 as soon as the 2014 787 deliveries allow QF to alter their route structure. It might take a few years of 787 deliveries to free up enough frames and persue the growth QF/Jetstar should be pursuing.

Until then, I'm excited about the route. To think, I thought it would be the A388 opening up new 'fat PtP routes.'   
Oh wait... I still think that.   We just need more A388s in service.

Lightsaber
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qf002
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:10 pm

Quoting cbrboy (Reply 28):
66J/26W/215Y".

Cheers, couldn't be bothered to find it for myself!! That equates to about 21.5% of seats being sold as J -- still exceeding the proportion of F and J seats in an A380 by a couple of percent. Looking at that, it appears that the A380 could actually provide fairly equal growth across all cabins in the longer run (assuming the current 4 class config is installed in #13 and #14).
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:10 pm

Quoting cbrboy (Reply 28):
Ditzyboy said at reply 156 to my post on QF8 that "the cosmetic config for this flight is 66J/26W/215Y".

In which case I think the myself and qf002 should be proud of our vague recollections about W and J  
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:08 pm

Can today's A380's make DFW-SYD?

This route is longer the DXB-SFO, which EK stated hey are waiting for newer model A380's to fly. So if the A380 can't make 7,041nm (DXB-SFO), then how can it do 7,454nm (DFW-SYD)?
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 32):
Can today's A380's make DFW-SYD?

Yes, but with a significant payload reduction from the maximum rating. Probably on the order of 25-35 tons depending on how bad the winds are. So figure somewhere between 50 and 60 tons, total, depending on the DOW.

A 747-400ER could lift abut 50 tons with no winds (depending on DOW), but the payload reduction is steeper than the A380's as winds get worse. At 8000nm equivalent flight distance, the A380 would lift about 20t more than the 747.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:20 pm

Quoting thegeek (Reply 7):
Once VH-OQA returns to service

When might that be?
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:13 pm

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 34):

February 2011 IIRC. I don't have a link though.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 27):
to then go beyond that and add 150 seats to 3 flights (450 seats a week) very quickly might be dangerous.

That's the critical issue. If this flight continues to perform well, it could be worth it. It may yet be worth what I was outlining, even with the 560t A380. I expect that the A380 would swing the trade off such that it would be better to take a weight hit than stop in BNE. The current route would affect the LAX routes, air would be carried SYD->LAX and LAX->BNE/MEL.

Why would the A380 go to BNE-LAX? That flight isn't even daily last I checked. I'd think SYD-HKG would be better, and it's a route first is sold on.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Quoting thegeek (Reply 35):
Quoting gdg9 (Reply 34):

February 2011 IIRC. I don't have a link though.

6 months from now? Wow.
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:40 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 32):
This route is longer the DXB-SFO, which EK stated hey are waiting for newer model A380's to fly.

EK's fittings should be heavier than QF's. Note: I do not know for certain. That will impact the payload/range as heavier fitttings are effectively non-paying payload. e.g., 2 tons of water for the showers. EK's wood, etc.

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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:02 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 35):
Why would the A380 go to BNE-LAX? That flight isn't even daily last I checked. I'd think SYD-HKG would be better, and it's a route first is sold on.

TBH I don't know, and it certainly wouldn't have been one of my picks while they still have plenty of 747s (and like you said, it's only at 6 weekly). I'm just going by what others have posted.

In agree re SYD-HKG. Though I do question whether they'd be better of increasing frequency to double daily before they started using bigger planes. I think an A380 would have worked very well on a new QF1 flying SYD-HKG-LHR, but alas they decided to just cut it instead  
Quoting thegeek (Reply 35):
February 2011 IIRC
Quoting gdg9 (Reply 36):
6 months from now? Wow.

Don't you mean 6 months ago? I have to say that she did a very good job of hiding from us all since reentering service  I assume you mean Feb 2012? Looking forward to it!
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:33 am

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 22):
As i have previously said on another airliner net post BNE-LAX will become a A380 flight 3 times a week from mid 2012.
Management contacts at QF BNE have been aware of this for past 6 months.Sure plans can change but as of a month ago they hadn't.

I highly doubt that there are plans to fly it out of Brisbane from next year. The 12 aircraft that QF will have by the end of the year allow all the current routes to be daily (well 11 until Nancy returns)

BNE-LAX isn't even daily, so don't think it requires the capacity of an A380, nor would the route require First Class.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:55 am

Quoting eoinnz (Reply 39):
The 12 aircraft that QF will have by the end of the year allow all the current routes to be daily (well 11 until Nancy returns)

But there should also be capacity to add another flight of some sort. If they didn't want to add the complexity of another destination, then thinking about it BNE-LAX could be a viable option because it would tie in very easily with QF's existing LAX operations. Also, I think that they are expecting at least 1 (if not 2) frames to arrive next year... That's not to say that I'm not still skeptical.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:37 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 40):
Also, I think that they are expecting at least 1 (if not 2) frames to arrive next year

Aircraft 13 and 14 are arriving in 2013.

Also next year will see the start of the reconfiguration of the first 12 aircraft (still with F but less J and more W and Y). So that will be another aircraft out of service (so still at 11 or down to 10 if Nancy isn't back in time)
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:05 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 38):
Don't you mean 6 months ago? I have to say that she did a very good job of hiding from us all since reentering service I assume you mean Feb 2012? Looking forward to it!

Correct. Doh!

Quoting eoinnz (Reply 41):
Also next year will see the start of the reconfiguration of the first 12 aircraft (still with F but less J and more W and Y). So that will be another aircraft out of service (so still at 11 or down to 10 if Nancy isn't back in time)

I think that accounts for all the available A380s then. Until this is completed, I doubt we will see regular A380 service on any particular route. It may be cycled into SYD-HKG when available, as opposed to flying that route regularly.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:19 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):

This was discussed about 2 weeks ago, but I've forgotten the specifics of what was said.

F is sold as J
Some (not all) J is sold as W
Some (/all?) W is sold as Y to Platinum FFs etc

Only a relatively small number of W seats are actually available for sale. 24 of the top of my head.

I'm shocked they are not selling F on this flight. It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as DFW has access to a lot of major markets where LAX is not reachable without an out-of-alliance interline or a double domestic connection on AA. Not to mention the fact that LAX cannot be reached from the more convenient LGA or DCA. Very weird decision.
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:18 am

Quoting eoinnz (Reply 41):
Aircraft 13 and 14 are arriving in 2013.

I was thinking about #11 and #12 -- I thought that QF was expecting to take delivery of one aircraft (#12) early in 2012? I might be completely wrong there though.

Quoting eoinnz (Reply 41):
Also next year will see the start of the reconfiguration of the first 12 aircraft

I know that they spoke about this, but is it still going ahead? The new 744 configuration has 32 W seats (which is a reduction from the 40 that the -ER's have today), so they may have decided that having big W cabins isn't such a good idea. They'll also still be working on the 744s for most of next year, which could tie up resources.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 42):
It may be cycled into SYD-HKG when available, as opposed to flying that route regularly.

Much as I'd love to see it, crew scheduling would make that impossible. You'd have to keep the plane sitting in HKG for a day plus some to allow the flight back to be operated by the same crew who operated the outbound flight, and that's just silly... The fact it fits into their existing operations so well is the only logical argument for bringing in 3 wkly BNE-LAX, and in my mind makes that more plausible (still think it's a stupid idea though).
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:53 am

^ Good point. If there aren't A380 crew in HKG you can't have an occasional service. Unless it can be sustained for a while there is no point in positioning crew to HKG. However, wouldn't the same thing apply in LAX? Or just extend slips in LAX for the A380 crew when the extra A380 isn't flying the route?
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:16 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 44):
Much as I'd love to see it, crew scheduling would make that impossible. You'd have to keep the plane sitting in HKG for a day plus some to allow the flight back to be operated by the same crew who operated the outbound flight, and that's just silly... The fact it fits into their existing operations so well is the only logical argument for bringing in 3 wkly BNE-LAX, and in my mind makes that more plausible (still think it's a stupid idea though).

How does NRT work when they fly both the B744 and A333/A332 there? (seemingly randomly at times)
Does that muck-up crew scheduling?
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:55 pm

Quoting thegeek (Reply 45):
However, wouldn't the same thing apply in LAX? Or just extend slips in LAX for the A380 crew when the extra A380 isn't flying the route?

You wouldn't need to -- even though it would only be 3/wk, the rotation of crews in LAX (ie a SYD inbound crew flying the return BNE flight) would eliminate the need to increase slips/the time the aircraft is sitting on the ground there.

Quoting QF762 (Reply 46):
How does NRT work when they fly both the B744 and A333/A332 there? (seemingly randomly at times)
Does that muck-up crew scheduling?

That's scheduled within the framework of the route though (ie the 747 crew that operates in on Monday flies out on Wednesday while the A330 crew that flies in on Tuesday flies out on Thursday) -- it would work fine for HKG if it was a regularly scheduled flight (and at decent frequency -- 4 or 5+ flights a week), but we're thinking of occasional operations here.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:28 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 47):
You wouldn't need to -- even though it would only be 3/wk, the rotation of crews in LAX (ie a SYD inbound crew flying the return BNE flight) would eliminate the need to increase slips/the time the aircraft is sitting on the ground there.

Sorry, but you would unless you plan to shorten the slips at times that the BNE-LAX A380 flight is running. Which may affect your ability to respond to a sick call. It's not just the pointy end crew either. In QF, A380 cabin crew and 747 cabin crew are separate. At least last I heard.
 
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RE: QF To Stick With 744ERs On DFW Route

Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:03 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 37):
EK's fittings should be heavier than QF's. Note: I do not know for certain. That will impact the payload/range as heavier fitttings are effectively non-paying payload. e.g., 2 tons of water for the showers. EK's wood, etc.

I believe the DOW spread on the A380 is in the order of about 8t with EK at the high end at about 300t.and probably QF close to the low end.