rising
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Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:03 am

Didn't see this posted so I wanted to discuss this. Ed Bastian stated at a conference yesterday that Economy Comfort is doing so well they are seriously looking at it for the entire Domestic mainline fleet.

It is important to mention that they have NOT made a decision yet.

Here is a link to the presentation

http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/co....zhtml?ticker=DAL&item_id=4195696.

If you're a Delta flyer, perhaps now is the time to start sending e-mails to Ed and Richard in support?
If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
 
srbmod
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:20 am

If they were to roll it out domestically, I would definitely pay the extra $$$ for such a seat. But knowing Delta, they may just roll it out domestically out of JFK to compete with United p.s. and American's Flagship Service (and to an extent, VX's Main Cabin Select seats) to LAX and SFO, although I could see it on their services to Hawaii as well.
 
rising
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:26 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 1):
they may just roll it out domestically out of JFK to compete with United p.s. and American's Flagship Service

He seemed very intent that this would be a product on the entire mainline. Looking at the international offering, where you receive early boarding and free drinks, if they offer that on domestic, and offer it complimentary to elites, this would be a very competitive product (I would even say superior) to United's Economy Plus. Will be interesting to see! I don't fly Delta often, but would be very excited to this come to fruition.
If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
 
nwa757boy
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:51 am

hmmmm I just spoke with Steve Gorman yesterday and he stated that in FACT it is coming domestically including the two class RJs....
 
KingFriday013
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:55 am

If this was offered domestically, I would definitely take it (assuming it wasn't too expensive). Although I'd probably wait until I'm 21...   Unfortunately however I'm usually on 50-seat regional jets so I don't think this would be on those. I wonder if this would make it to the CRJ-700s and -900s and E170/175s... they now have Wi-Fi and already have F. However I feel that with all of that they'd hold off on taking out any more seats than they'd have to.

-J.
Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
 
simairlinenet
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:55 am

Quoting rising (Thread starter):
Ed Bastian stated at a conference yesterday that Economy Comfort is doing so well they are seriously looking at it for the entire Domestic mainline fleet.

My firsthand observations are that Economy Comfort may be doing well from a revenue standpoint, but it's creating a ton of problems on board the aircraft in terms of getting it right.

Quoting rising (Thread starter):
Quoting nwa757boy (Reply 3):
hmmmm I just spoke with Steve Gorman yesterday and he stated that in FACT it is coming domestically including the two class RJs....

I'll buy this one.

[Edited 2011-09-14 18:57:03]
 
deltairlines
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:01 am

Considering that UA found it revenue-positive enough to expand it to the Continental fleet, I'm not surprised that Delta would consider it.
 
cloudboy
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:13 am

Yes, but if it ends up taking away from the first class product, and suddenly all those elite fliers find themselves in coach seats with a little more leg room instead of first, how many of them do you think will just switch to JetBlue?
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
spacecadet
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:17 am

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 7):
Yes, but if it ends up taking away from the first class product, and suddenly all those elite fliers find themselves in coach seats with a little more leg room instead of first, how many of them do you think will just switch to JetBlue?

Well, considering JetBlue only offers coach, if a lack of first class seating is the reason why they're switching, I don't think they're going to be very satisfied.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
SkyPriorityDTW
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:20 am

Just as with any industry, up-sells work. This one is easy. I think almost anyone would pay a few extra Franklin's to get more room and a free drink. Not only would this be superior to United's Economy Plus, but it would also compete with Southwest and it's Business Select product. Priority boarding and a free drink would definitely make it more worth it. However, I would suggest moving Silver Medallion's to Zone 1 in boarding so that they aren't hounded by the AMEX card users and Economy Comfort passengers. There are a lot of things to look at with this, but I'm sure it will be a "go-ahead" moving forward. The ROI would be much greater than the investment, I can tell you that without even crunching the numbers!
Keep Climbing...
 
simairlinenet
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:24 am

Quoting rising (Thread starter):
Quoting cloudboy (Reply 7):
Yes, but if it ends up taking away from the first class product

There's not much to take away from. Bastian gave the numbers a few quarters ago in an investor presentation: 93% of domestic first class is occupied, but only 14% is actually sold. There's plenty of upsell potential and very little downsell.
 
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drerx7
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:55 am

Even though it still wouldn't get me on board Delta - it will definitely add more revenue, and it will aid DL in the system wide capacity reductions.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
Flaps
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:04 am

I'd be satisfied if they could simply get seat assignments accomplished in a timely manner. I'd pay a little bit extra not to have get a seat assignment at the gate on a ticket bought three weeks out. IMHO, DL's seat pitch isnt all that bad. I would pay $20 just to be assured an aisle or window in the currently configured seats.
Another thing that I would like to see (not just on DL but everyone) would be...there is no politically correct way to say this but.....I would like to see a policy that if a person cannot fit in a seat that they have to buy two seats. Im not trying to pick on people "of size" but, on two occaisions in the last two months (an MD88 on DL and a 734 on US) I have had to share a row with people in excess of 300lbs. The trips were absolutely miserable not only for me but for everyone on that seat block, the large person included. I paid for 17.5" of seat, I got 12". The other person paid for 17.5" of seat and got 23". how is that fair? To be sure, they were just as uncomfortable in their 23" as I was in my 12" so we were equally bad off. Has anyone else encountered this that is willing to fess up?
For a standard I would suggest that if you cant get the armrest down you pay for the adjacent seat. I know this is a little off topic but not having to deal with this is something that I would pay for. UA goes for some added pitch which is nice. Maybe DL could differentiate by giving seat assignments and five abreast on a few rows on six abreast aircraft for an added fee? I dont have any suggestions for the MD88's and MD90's though as going four abreat there for a few rows would cost them more revenue than they could offset with the extra fee. Please dont flame me but I welcome a constructive discourse.
 
pqdtw
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:35 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 12):
Another thing that I would like to see (not just on DL but everyone) would be...there is no politically correct way to say this but.....I would like to see a policy that if a person cannot fit in a seat that they have to buy two seats. Im not trying to pick on people "of size" but, on two occaisions in the last two months (an MD88 on DL and a 734 on US) I have had to share a row with people in excess of 300lbs.

Delta's policy regarding that is that the person must be able to fit in the seat with the armrests down, if there is complaint from a passenger next to him/her. The large passenger must then be reaccommodated in a seat that has an open seat next to him/her, or if the flight is full, the gate agent is to de-board the passenger. The truth is, it doesn't happen all that often, because most people (crew and fellow passengers alike) don't feel comfortable taking it that far.
 
tonytifao
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:42 am

Lets be realistic, how many business people pay for f class these days considering most of them are top tier status with their airlines and have unlimited upgrades. I believe corporate america would be willing to pay a few extra bucks for flights over 3 hours.

Personally, I would pay extra for longer domestic flights.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:03 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 12):
I would like to see a policy that if a person cannot fit in a seat that they have to buy two seats. Im not trying to pick on people "of size" but, on two occaisions in the last two months (an MD88 on DL and a 734 on US) I have had to share a row with people in excess of 300lbs. The trips were absolutely miserable not only for me but for everyone on that seat block, the large person included. I paid for 17.5" of seat, I got 12". The other person paid for 17.5" of seat and got 23". how is that fair? To be sure, they were just as uncomfortable in their 23" as I was in my 12" so we were equally bad off. Has anyone else encountered this that is willing to fess up?

Seems reasonable. I have a friend who always pays for two seats when she travels because she's uncomfortable fitting into one. I respect her a great deal for doing this, as she could just as easily "wedge" herself into the seat and make herself - and the people next to her - miserable. In fact, she flew to Wilmington, NC today and was asking me prior to going where seat B went, because she was assigned A/C on a CRJ900. Lucky her, she got a window and an aisle.

-Dave
-Dave
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:48 am

There seems to be an assumption here that DL would take First Class seats out to put in Economy Comfort. Do we know this to be the case, or would they take out a few coach seats for the extra pitch? I think it would be best to take out just one row of First for this given the revenue risk in the back. If you take out any more, I think too many elites would get disgruntled. Taking First down to the single digits is a little draconian.
 
commavia
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:20 pm

What an endorsement this is for United's EconomyPlus move over a decade ago - truly impressive. It looks like Delta is making a smart move here rolling this out on the international fleet, and perhaps even on the domestic fleet. AA should follow suit - at least on the 777s, 767s and international 757s (a grand total of about 125 jets).
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:25 pm

Quoting rising (Reply 2):

Quoting srbmod (Reply 1):
they may just roll it out domestically out of JFK to compete with United p.s. and American's Flagship Service

He seemed very intent that this would be a product on the entire mainline. Looking at the international offering, where you receive early boarding and free drinks, if they offer that on domestic, and offer it complimentary to elites, this would be a very competitive product (I would even say superior) to United's Economy Plus. Will be interesting to see! I don't fly Delta often, but would be very excited to this come to fruition.

Ok, I travel 100'000 miles a year with Delta, And I get upgraded 97% of the time, I do wish they do not plan to upgrade me to a Economy Plus seat rather then a Domestic First Class.
 
luckyone
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:31 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 12):
I'd pay a little bit extra not to have get a seat assignment at the gate on a ticket bought three weeks out.

How often do you have that problem. I've booked several times the day before and was always able to select my seats at the time of booking.

Economy Comfort is a good product. I've flown it twice on long haul, and was really pleased. It's a good deal.
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:45 pm

Quoting jfk787nyc (Reply 18):
Ok, I travel 100'000 miles a year with Delta, And I get upgraded 97% of the time, I do wish they do not plan to upgrade me to a Economy Plus seat rather then a Domestic First Class.

Lets look at it from Delta's perspective: If their domestic F seats are not being sold and are being given away they aren't getting good value for that space on the aircraft. Sure they are deriving some value by keeping elites happy, but not good value. If they can shrink the domestic F cabin and introduce and Economy Comfort cabin, they can potentially accomplish three things... still provide upgrades to elite travelers (albeit not first, but still a much better travel experience than economy), increase revenue and passenger experience for non-elites by selling upgrades to economy passengers, and increase F revenue by making it more exclusive and forcing those passengers that truly demand the F seat to have to pay for it versus buying an economy ticket knowing they will get an automatic upgrade (those that would pay for F now don't because they know they can get the seat without having to pay for it). It really seems like a win-win for all involved if the demand is there to up-sell, I question how much demand exists when start to get to flights under or around 2 hours. International seemed like a no-brainer, transcons and even midcons also seems obvious, but entire fleet seems questionable but apparently they believe the demand is there. I know will never be able to see the numbers but I would love to see the break down on sales for Economy Comfort by flight length.
 
peanuts
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:54 pm

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 14):
I believe corporate america would be willing to pay a few extra bucks for flights over 3 hours.

This is key.
Rather than subject their employees to the risk of not getting the free upgrade, I think corporate america will just purchase the Economy Comfort seat outright and be done with it.
 
CRJ900
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:08 pm

Quoting KinGFriDAy013 (Reply 4):
I wonder if this would make it to the CRJ-700s and -900s and E170/175s..
Quoting peanuts (Reply 21):
Rather than subject their employees to the risk of not getting the free upgrade, I think corporate america will just purchase the Economy Comfort seat outright and be done with it.

For the CRJ900 and E175, the 12 First seats @ 37 inch pitch can become Economy Comfort by reducing seat pitch to 34" and change the first two rows of Y into this too, so you have 18 Y Comfort and 58 Y.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:16 pm

I can't see this being rolled out on 50 seaters, 2-class RJs, or even the A319s.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 21):
This is key.
Rather than subject their employees to the risk of not getting the free upgrade, I think corporate america will just purchase the Economy Comfort seat outright and be done with it.

I don't know about that, especially with the asnine travel policies in place at most companies, typically set by travel managers & departments that don't travel frequently. Items like choosing the cheapest flights, connections, hotel policies, etc. where you have to explain how something more expensive either may increase productivity or provide a lower cost in the end.

At least with elite status it takes some of the comforts out of the control of the travel department that is staffed by a bunch of WFH deadbeats.
 
Flighty
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:25 pm

Quoting SkyPriorityDTW (Reply 9):
Just as with any industry, up-sells work.

Yup. I have seen it with my friends and family. They will pay for this 30-70 dollar upgrade all the time. Additionally, this is untaxed by aviation taxes, correct? The trip itself has TSA/ATC taxes and so on. But not seat upgrades. Therefore the big seat revenue is sweeter than marginal additional passengers (who are each taxed). So might as well throw out some empty seats and really please the customers you do have.
 
PI4EVER
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:12 pm

I doubt DL will remove any seats from F, considering they just completed the addition of F seats in the domestic 767 fleet, and are modifying the 757 fleet to actually add 2 more F seats to total 26.
The success of a domestic program will be to evaluate who sits there from an elite status that won't be paying for the Y+ seat. Will the upggrade policy/program for SkyMiles elites be modified because the rules for domestic and international upgrades are so different? International Y+ may be successful from additional revenue paid to sit there as not every seat is taken by an elite, whereas domestic would be a totally different perspective. If you can't get upgraded to F, do Silver and Gold's end up taking the Y+ seats for free? A new "pay to upgrade" policy for F? Will be an iffy situation to not piss off top tier who are accustomed to free upgrades in exchange for the loyal business.
I think it is a great idea...with some of those kinks worked out...to add value to domestic markets.
watch what you want. you may get it.
 
peanuts
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:14 pm

It seems to me that if DL decides on Domestic Economy Comfort, some current upgrade rules may have to be adjusted.

If a certain amount of confirmed EC passengers are on the waiting list for First, wouldn't that limit DL to the amount of EC seats they can sell? Or will there be two waiting lists? One for EC and one for First? Sounds like a lot of shuffling going on 20 minutes before departure....

Currently, only less than 20% of DL's First class passengers pay that class of service. If more passengers pay confirmed EC, it's probably a money maker.Just not sure on the upgrade flow to first from that point. Could be a bit messy with potential EC revenue losses as a result.

They may just limit Silver and Golds just to the EC upgrades, no more First.
 
peanuts
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:19 pm

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 25):

I guess we are thinking the same thing at the same time...you know the saying... 
 
nwa757boy
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:33 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23):
I can't see this being rolled out on 50 seaters, 2-class RJs, or even the A319s.

As i stated earlier in the thread, according to Steve Gorman whom I spoke to on the 13th, stated that it will be on all mainline domestic planes including the two class regionals.
 
RamblinMan
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:59 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 26):
They may just limit Silver and Golds just to the EC upgrades, no more First.

Fine by me... I've never made higher than silver, and always thought the upgrades were the least valuable perk anyhow. Upgrading to F is fun, but what's not fun is waiting until 5 minutes before boarding to know if you're gonna spend the next 3 hours in a comfy F seat or squeezed in cattle class. So to choose between getting an F seat 50% of the time or a Y+ seat 95% of the time...I'll take the Y+ option any day.
 
spacecadet
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:27 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 19):
How often do you have that problem. I've booked several times the day before and was always able to select my seats at the time of booking.

I've flown/am flying a total of eight flights on Delta over the current month. Of those, I was able to select seats in advance on four of them. So, I think this is a pretty common problem.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
peanuts
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:32 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 26):
Could be a bit messy with potential EC revenue losses as a result.

I'll take this back...
The top fliers that have a confirmed EC ticket, could potentially get upgraded to First. DL still KEEPS that additional EC revenue. They can then turn around and try to sell more EC upgrades to regular Y pax on day of departure. After that, give them to Silver/Gold.
Win/win for DL.  

Long story short: DL will get more revenue from the highest qualified members as they are likely to purchase EC tickets and are likely to still get upgraded to First after all...

Or it could backfire in a way: the passengers that almost always get upgraded to First due to highest status will just never feel like purchasing EC since they make it into First most of the time anyway.

In that case, DL may require EC tickets only for upgrade to First. In essence, the top flyer (Diamonds) gets hosed with this deal then...another potential backfire...

Still a bit fuzzy right?

[Edited 2011-09-15 12:40:40]
 
RamblinMan
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:40 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 31):
Long story short: DL will get more revenue from the highest qualified members as they are likely to purchase EC tickets and are likely to still get upgraded to First after all...

Why the hell would a plat pay for an EC ticket when they get that benefit for free? Or am I missing something?
 
peanuts
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:44 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 32):
Why the hell would a plat pay for an EC ticket when they get that benefit for free? Or am I missing something?

If DL thinks along that line then EC is just meant for Golds and Silvers.
I just don't see why Platinum and Diamonds should get upgraded on a regular Y ticket.
I do realize there are many pitfalls with these scenarios.

How does UA handle this?
 
RamblinMan
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:52 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 33):
I just don't see why Platinum and Diamonds should get upgraded on a regular Y ticket.

Because all elites get upgraded on regular Y tickets. Including super-discounted Y. As a silver, I have sat in F on MDW-ATL having paid as little as $65. What I'm saying is that I would gladly trade F upgrades, which a lowly silver often doesn't get (also been #44 on the ug list on an MD-90...good luck there), for the ability to reserve Y+ at the time of booking.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 33):
How does UA handle this?

All elites can reserve Y+ at booking, and all elites are eligible for unlimited domestic upgrades. P.S. is excluded.
 
peanuts
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:06 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 34):
All elites can reserve Y+ at booking, and all elites are eligible for unlimited domestic upgrades.

Ok. Just trying to understand here. So, if UA has, let's say 12 F and 16 Y+ (just random numbers), and you are #44 on the list, how is UA making money on Y+? I'm assuming this "frenzy" creates an atmosphere where most frequent flyers don't wanna risk getting stuck in the back and just purchase Y+ in order to guarantee some level of comfort. Right?

Just trying to make sense of the strategies behind this all, from DL's perspective as well as a FF's perspective.
 
RamblinMan
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:26 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 35):
So, if UA has, let's say 12 F and 16 Y+ (just random numbers), and you are #44 on the list, how is UA making money on Y+? I'm assuming this "frenzy" creates an atmosphere where most frequent flyers don't wanna risk getting stuck in the back and just purchase Y+ in order to guarantee some level of comfort. Right?

No, and this has a lot to do with their actual configuration... on an A319, a very common type for domestic, you have 8F and 40 Y+. Most people report that there are often empty seats in Y+ while regular Y is full. Y+ seat assignments can be reserved at booking by elite members, who are then also on the list to upgrade to F. Now, with so few F seats, lower-tier elites are not going to get the upgrade very often, but they can reserve Y+ any time.
 
Flaps
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:58 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 30):
Quoting luckyone (Reply 19):How often do you have that problem. I've booked several times the day before and was always able to select my seats at the time of booking.
I've flown/am flying a total of eight flights on Delta over the current month. Of those, I was able to select seats in advance on four of them. So, I think this is a pretty common problem.

I currently fly PIT-SGF-PIT every week and have done so for the past three months. I usually book three weeks out. On the PIT-ATL and PIT-MEM segments I encounter the inabilty to get a seat assignment about 50% of the time and it occurs in both directions. I had heard and it seemed credible to me that DL was blocking out larger numbers of seats on the MD88's due to the ongoing removal of the rear galleys. When the two configurations are subbed for each other this allows them more flexibilty in reassigning passengers. Im not so sure anymore that this is true though because I'm running into it equally often on ASA and Pinnacle through MEM.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:37 pm

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 25):

I'd like to make one small correction. The seat count is to be 28FC. Only the original Song a/c dot at 26FC and have nose to tail AVOD (75X). The information they put out back in December was that all 757s with 6 doors will move from 24 and 26 to 28.

I do agree that we won't see a loss in first seating. They managed to keep the seat count on the 75Es and the other widebody a/c the same because of the slimline seats.
What gets measured gets done.
 
cloudboy
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:23 am

The problem is that people are assuming a passenger flying Delta now will always be a Delta passenger regardlesss of the price paid or what they get. this is the big error. Those upgraded passengers aren't there because they make money off this particular flight. They are there because those passengers, who travel frequently so buy a lot of flights, will always choose Delta because they get those benefits. If they no longer earn a premium that is valuable to them over other airline offerings, they are not going to choose Delta at all. So you loose the whole flight, not just the upgrade. In this case, if Delta chooses to go the route of removing first class seats (not a given, but a possibility) then they will no longer be offering a decent benefit to flying Delta versus flying JetBlue (which also offers extended legroom) or United, which offers economy + upgrades. If you then have to compete against the better IFE and snacks provided by Jetblue, then you likely stand to loose customers.

One of the problems with UA is that a regular person cannot purchase an E+ seat until they get to the airport, only elite flyers.

As for booking Delta seats - that's not a restriction, it's a known glitch. No idea why it is not fixed yet, but if you get that call their support line and they can book the seat for you.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
Flaps
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RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:29 am

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 39):
One of the problems with UA is that a regular person cannot purchase an E+ seat until they get to the airport, only elite flyers.

That isnt true. I've done it several times and I'm not a UA elite. I am a member of their FF program but I havent yet accumulated enough miles or segments for status. My current project has me primarily on DL with a few trips on AA thrown in.
 
RamblinMan
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:57 pm

RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:40 am

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 39):
One of the problems with UA is that a regular person cannot purchase an E+ seat until they get to the airport, only elite flyers.

Then how come every time I book a ticket I get a message asking me if I want to purchase Economy Plus? (I'm not an elite)

Y+ does two things for UA...offers an additional elite perk- a better coach seat so you don't have to hope for the free upgrade in order not to be sandwiched into regular Y, AND, a revenue generator for non-elites buying the extra legroom. Either way, those seats are going to customers who provide value to the company. I hope DL goes that route, I think it's good for pax and good for the company.
 
United1
Posts: 2926
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:08 am

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 39):
One of the problems with UA is that a regular person cannot purchase an E+ seat until they get to the airport, only elite flyers.

As a non-elite and as long as Y+ is available you can purchase the upgrade at any time between booking and check in. As an elite you can reserve a Y+ seat at any time as long as there are open seats...both UA and DL make it very easy for elites and nons to book these seats.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
toltommy
Posts: 2519
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:55 am

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 7):
suddenly all those elite fliers find themselves in coach seats with a little more leg room instead of first, how many of them do you think will just switch to JetBlue?

Since JetBlue flies to less than a handful of locations Delta does (including DTW, ATL, and MSP hubs), it's not really that big of an issue.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23):
I can't see this being rolled out on 50 seaters, 2-class RJs, or even the A319s.

Perhaps not on the 50 seaters, but UA has the EXplus product on the E170, so there's a way to put it on the 319.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 30):
I've flown/am flying a total of eight flights on Delta over the current month. Of those, I was able to select seats in advance on four of them. So, I think this is a pretty common problem.

I'm surprised that DL and the other legacies have yet to charge for advance seat assignments, especially on the lower fare buckets. Waive it for Y/B/M fares and elites, charge for the L/U/T fares. My brother-in-law flies WN a lot more than he cares to, but he can purchase a last minute ticket, and still snag a group 1 BP. On a legacy carrier, by te time he's buying a ticket (for work), the decent seats are gone to someone woh paid much less than him.
 
odysseus9001
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:02 pm

RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:58 am

I can see this working if they implemented in a way similar to United. Silver+ FF get to do domestic economy comfort for free and reserve it online, others can reserve at airport.

If they implement it in this way, medallion FF would stick with DL, but if not, a FF would have a strong incentive to fly UA more and DL less. I know I would.

J
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6186
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:54 pm

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 43):
Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23):
I can't see this being rolled out on 50 seaters, 2-class RJs, or even the A319s.

Perhaps not on the 50 seaters, but UA has the EXplus product on the E170, so there's a way to put it on the 319.

Well, I would think it might be challenging due to CASM on these aircraft.

50 seaters - no way, all that would do is ruin the CASM further on these aircraft, and anything mentioning Comfort on an RJ is a joke

66/70/76 seaters - the seating on these aircraft is more or less dictated by scope. My fear is that on these 2 class RJs that it would come at the expense of F. The CR7/E170s likely would go from 9F -> 6F and the E175/CR9s would go from 12F -> 9F. I don't like the idea of reducing F one bit, particularly as I'm just a lowly Platinum. I've missed many of upgrades on the A319s where I've been #1-#4 on the list now that they've gone from 16F->12F.

The A319 puzzles me, because just a few months ago DL was talking about adding even more seats into the aircraft since the CASM was "challenging"
 
dartland
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:09 am

RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:43 pm

It amazes me that UA has had E+ for a decade and DL is just now acting surprised that it's a net positive for their airline!

Re the implementation, UA has it right with free E+ placements for elites. It's the reason I'm a 1K -- basically 100% of the time I'm in E+, so I care a lot less if I get the upgrade. Even if my upgrade chance is higher as a DL elite, I'm stuck in 31" seat pitch if I don't get it and that's something I want to avoid at all costs (of course I"ll be in it this afternoon JFK-SFO...)

The reason this is coming out now (and the CASM issue is not prohibitive) is that with demand a little soft, the idea of taking seats out of planes and trading that for ancillary revenue is appealing. You can't easily trim capacity in subtle ways -- you can cut flights and downgrade equipment, sure, but if you want to trim some capacity, E+ starts looking like a great option. You take out 1-2 rows of E on your planes that went empty most of the time anyways, and generate some ancillary revenue.

Remember that reducing capacity will also boost airfares, so your yield goes up, maybe total revenue equalizes or goes up depending on the demand.

I realize installing something like E+ is a long-term investment and you can't easily take it in and out, but right now the 1-year models on demand are going to look great for E+ making this as good a time as any to invest in it.
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 1980
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:26 am

Quoting rising (Thread starter):

Is there a link to check out that you don't have to register to access?
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:04 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 43):

The system does seem funky but its set up that way for a reason. Keep in mind that DL blocks a lot of seats. Row 10 on the narrowbody Airbus, the 737s and MDs is usually blocked until day of departure along with the exit rows (save for elites). So many times these last minute fares would only get seat request cards but end up with a bulkhead seat or an exit row. Also, when those guys are upgraded within their window to F (wheather day of departure or a day or two before) those prefered seats are realeased back to the inventory.
What gets measured gets done.
 
delta2ual
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:18 pm

RE: Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic

Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:32 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 34):
Quoting peanuts (Reply 33):
How does UA handle this?

All elites can reserve Y+ at booking, and all elites are eligible for unlimited domestic upgrades. P.S. is excluded.

Plus, UA sells upgrades to Y+ for a yearly fee of $400-something dollars. Even non-elites can buy this and upgrade on every flight they purchase (if it's available of course).
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual

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