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enilria
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OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:00 pm

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".




5W BOS-KEF OCT 0.3>0
*5W EWR-KEF OCT 0.5>0.4 JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.5 APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4

AM FAT-GDL OCT 1.0>0.9
AM ONT-GDL DEC 0.6>1.0 JAN 0.4>0.5
AM ORD-GDL DEC 0.8>1.0
AM ORD-MEX DEC 1.9>1.7
AM ORD-ZCL NOV 0.2>0
AM SAT-MEX NOV 2>3 DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3
AM SAT-MTY NOV 0.9>0.8 DEC 0.7>1.0
AM SMF-GDL OCT 1.0>0.9

BR SFO-TPE OCT 1.4>1.3

CO CLE-MIA DEC 1.0>0.7
CO CLE-MSY DEC 1.0>0.6
CO CLE-PIT DEC 4>3
CO DEN-ANC DEC 0>0.5
CO EWR-ANU DEC 0.8>0.9
CO EWR-ATL DEC 7>4
CO EWR-BOS DEC 11>9
CO EWR-CLT DEC 6>3
CO EWR-CMH DEC 6>4
CO EWR-CUN DEC 3>1.9
CO EWR-DEN DEC 5>6
CO EWR-DTW DEC 6>5
CO EWR-FRA JAN 1.0>1.6 FEB 1.0>1.5 MAR 1.0>2 APR 1.0>2 MAY 1.0>2
CO EWR-IND DEC 6>3
CO EWR-JAX DEC 4>3
CO EWR-LAS DEC 6>4
CO EWR-MBJ MAR 0.5>0.4
CO EWR-MSP DEC 6>5
CO EWR-MSY DEC 3>1.3
CO EWR-PIT DEC 7>4
CO EWR-PLS MAR 1.0>0.6
CO EWR-RDU DEC 7>5
CO EWR-SJD DEC 0.5>0.4
CO EWR-STL DEC 7>5
CO EWR-YHZ DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3
CO EWR-YUL NOV 4>3 DEC 6>3 JAN 6>5
CO EWR-YYT DEC 0>0.5
CO IAD-CDG FEB 1.9>1.8
CO IAH-ABQ DEC 6>1.9
CO IAH-ACA JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.8 MAR 1.0>0.7
CO IAH-ACT NOV 6>4
CO IAH-ATL DEC 9>8
CO IAH-BHM DEC 6>5
CO IAH-BNA DEC 7>6
CO IAH-BON JAN 0.3>0.1
CO IAH-BPT NOV 8>5
CO IAH-CAE DEC 3>1.5
CO IAH-CLL NOV 8>6
CO IAH-CLT DEC 8>6
CO IAH-CMH DEC 5>3
CO IAH-COS DEC 5>3
CO IAH-CRP DEC 9>10
CO IAH-CUN DEC 6>5
CO IAH-CVG DEC 5>3
CO IAH-DFW DEC 9>6
CO IAH-DGO DEC 0.5>0.6
CO IAH-DTW DEC 5>4
CO IAH-ELP DEC 6>5
CO IAH-GRK NOV 4>6
CO IAH-HUX JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.7 MAR 1.0>0.7
CO IAH-IAD DEC 4>1.9
CO IAH-IND DEC 6>4
CO IAH-LCH NOV 4>6
CO IAH-LEX DEC 1.8>1.0
CO IAH-LFT NOV 7>8
CO IAH-LIT DEC 6>5
CO IAH-MCI DEC 10>7
CO IAH-MEM DEC 6>5
CO IAH-MFE DEC 6>7
CO IAH-MKE DEC 5>4
CO IAH-MLU NOV 2>4
CO IAH-MSP DEC 6>3
CO IAH-MSY DEC 11>10
CO IAH-OAX DEC 0.9>1.0
CO IAH-OKC DEC 8>7
CO IAH-OMA DEC 6>4
CO IAH-ORF DEC 2>1.0
CO IAH-PBC DEC 1.2>1.5
CO IAH-PVR DEC 1.9>2 JAN 3>2 MAR 3>1.8
CO IAH-SHV NOV 8>7
CO IAH-SLC DEC 4>3
CO IAH-SLW DEC 0.7>0.9
CO IAH-TAM DEC 1.1>1.3
CO IAH-TGZ DEC 0.3>0.7
CO IAH-TUS DEC 5>1.2
CO IAH-TYR NOV 6>5
CO IAH-VCT NOV 1.1>1.8
CO IAH-YYZ DEC 4>1.8
CO IAH-ZIH DEC 0.7>0.9 JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.8 MAR 1.0>0.7
CO IAH-ZLO DEC 0.5>0.7 JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.7 MAR 1.0>0.7
CO LAX-IAH DEC 13>12
CO ORD-FLL MAR 2>3
CO ORD-PBI MAR 0>1.0
CO SFO-ITO DEC 0.2>0.1
CO SNA-OGG DEC 0.2>0.6

Please ignore May as it is a partial month fo sale.
F9 MCI-HOU NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.0 APR 1.4>1.0
Hard to argue for more LGA slots if they can't run 3 RTs to MCI in Winter.
*F9 MCI-LGA JAN 3>2 MAR 3>2 APR 3>2 MAY 0.9>0.6
*F9 MCI-MSP NOV 1.8>0 DEC 1.8>0 JAN 1.8>0 FEB 1.9>0 MAR 1.9>0 APR 1.8>0
F9 MCI-SEA NOV 0.8>0.6 DEC 0.9>0.6 JAN 1.0>0.6 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.6 APR 1.0>0.6 MAY 0.3>0.2
F9 MCI-SFO NOV 0.8>0.6 JAN 0.9>0.6 FEB 0.9>0.6 MAR 0.8>0.5 APR 0.9>0.6

F9 MKE-BOS NOV 3>1.7 JAN 3>1.8 FEB 3>1.9 MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.9 MAY 0.8>0.6
*F9 MKE-CLE NOV 1.3>0 DEC 1.3>0 JAN 1.3>0 FEB 1.3>0 MAR 1.3>0 APR 1.3>0
F9 MKE-CMH NOV 3>1.9 DEC 3>1.9 JAN 3>1.8 FEB 3>1.9 MAR 3>1.9 APR 3>1.8 MAY 0.9>0.6
*F9 MKE-DAY NOV 1.2>0 DEC 1.1>0 JAN 1.2>0 FEB 1.2>0 MAR 1.1>0 APR 1.1>0
*F9 MKE-DEN JAN 6>4 FEB 6>4 MAR 6>4 APR 6>4 MAY 1.8>1.3
*F9 MKE-DSM NOV 3>0.0 DEC 3>0 JAN 3>0 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0 MAY 0.7>0
F9 MKE-FLL NOV 0.4>0.2 DEC 0.5>0.3 JAN 1.0>0.6 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.6 APR 0.5>0.3
*F9 MKE-GRB NOV 1.7>0.0 DEC 1.7>0 JAN 1.7>0 FEB 1.8>0 MAR 1.7>0 APR 1.7>0
F9 MKE-MCI NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3 MAR 4>3 APR 4>3
F9 MKE-MCO JAN 1.0>1.9 FEB 1.0>3 MAR 1.0>2
*F9 MKE-MSN NOV 3>0 DEC 3>0 JAN 3>0 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0 MAY 0.9>0
*F9 MKE-MSP NOV 4>0 DEC 4>0 JAN 4>0 FEB 4>0 MAR 4>0 APR 4>0 MAY 1.2>0
F9 MKE-OMA NOV 3>1.7 DEC 3>1.7 JAN 3>1.7 FEB 3>1.8 MAR 3>1.7 APR 3>1.7 MAY 0.9>0.6
F9 MKE-PHL FEB 3>1.8 MAR 3>1.7
F9 MKE-RSW DEC 0.3>0.2 MAR 0.6>0.4
F9 MKE-SAT NOV 0.4>0.2

FI DEN-KEF MAY 0>0.4

G4 LAS-TWF JAN 0.3>0.0
G4 LAX-XNA JAN 0.3>0.1

HA KOA-OGG JAN 2>3 FEB 3>4 MAR 2>3 APR 2>3 MAY 2>3
HA OAK-OGG JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.6 MAR 0>0.6 APR 0>0.6 MAY 0>0.6
HA OGG-KOA JAN 2>3 FEB 3>4 MAR 2>3 APR 2>3 MAY 2>3
HA OGG-PDX JAN 1.0>0.3 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0
HA PDX-OGG JAN 1.0>0.3 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0
HA SJC-OGG JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.5 MAR 0>0.4 APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4

JL ROR-NRT OCT 0>0.1

LA SFO-LIM FEB 0.6>0.4 MAR 0.6>0.5 APR 0.5>0.4 MAY 0.6>0.5

Shift with CO
LH EWR-FRA JAN 2.0>1.5 FEB 2>1.7 MAR 2>1.5

LI SJU-ANU DEC 1.5>2 JAN 1.4>1.8 FEB 1.5>1.8 MAR 1.5>1.7 APR 1.4>1.7 MAY 1.4>1.7
*LI SJU-SVD DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>0.4

OZ LAS-LAX DEC 0>0.8 JAN 0>0.9 FEB 0>0.9

UA DEN-ABQ DEC 7>5
UA DEN-COS DEC 11>10
UA DEN-DRO DEC 8>7
UA DEN-LAS NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
UA DEN-OMA DEC 6>5
UA DEN-ONT DEC 4>1.8
UA DEN-PHX NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4 JAN 5>4 FEB 6>5 MAR 6>5
UA DEN-RAP DEC 7>6
UA DEN-SJC DEC 5>4
UA DEN-TPA DEC 2>1.5
UA DEN-XNA DEC 1.7>1.2
UA DEN-YEG DEC 3>4
UA DEN-YQR DEC 2>1.9
UA DEN-YYZ DEC 3>1.8
UA IAD-CAE DEC 4>3
I'm sure this is just related to the messy combined schedule and not real.
*UA IAD-EWR DEC 4>1.0 JAN 4>1.0 FEB 5>1.0 MAR 4>1.0
UA IAD-JFK DEC 4>3
UA IAD-SJU DEC 1.0>1.2
UA IAD-YYZ DEC 6>5
UA IAH-DEN FEB 5>4 MAR 4>3
Also probably meaningless
*UA IAH-IAD NOV 5>1.1 DEC 5>1.6 JAN 5>1.5 FEB 6>1.3 MAR 5>1.0
UA LAX-BWI DEC 1.4>0.8
UA LAX-ELP DEC 1.5>1.0
UA LAX-LAS DEC 5>4
UA LAX-YVR DEC 1.7>1.9
UA ORD-EWR NOV 8>7 DEC 9>7 JAN 8>7 FEB 8>7 MAR 8>7
UA ORD-MCO NOV 5>4 DEC 6>5 JAN 5>4 FEB 6>5 MAR 7>6
UA ORD-SJU DEC 0.5>0.7
UA ORD-SNA DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3 MAR 4>3
UA SFO-LAS NOV 7>6 DEC 7>6 JAN 7>6 FEB 8>7 MAR 7>6
UA SFO-LAX DEC 16>15
UA SFO-ORD NOV 13>12 DEC 14>12 JAN 15>14 FEB 15>14 MAR 15>14
UA SFO-RNO DEC 6>5

US PHX-MZT JAN 3>1.3 FEB 3>1.8

OK, I have gone to the trouble to compare the newly loaded WN schedule for MAR to last year's MAR schedule so this is MAR2012 vs. MAR2011. It's pretty interesting.
WN ABQ-PHX MAR 9>8
WN ATL-AUS MAR 0>2
WN ATL-BWI MAR 0>4
WN ATL-DEN MAR 0>2
WN ATL-HOU MAR 0>3
WN ATL-LAS MAR 0>0.7
WN ATL-MDW MAR 0>4
WN ATL-PHX MAR 0>0.7
WN BDL-BNA MAR 1.0>0
WN BHM-PHX MAR 1.0>0.7
WN BHM-SDF MAR 1.5>0
WN BOI-RNO MAR 1.9>0
WN BOI-SEA MAR 1.8>0
WN BOI-SLC MAR 1.8>0
This one is newly loaded this week
***WN BOS-PHL FEB 8>0 MAR 8>0
WN BUR-DEN MAR 0>2
WN BUR-OAK MAR 13>14
WN BUR-PHX MAR 8>7
WN BWI-CHS MAR 1.8>3
WN BWI-EWR MAR 0>3
WN BWI-GSP MAR 1.2>1.9
WN BWI-ISP MAR 6>5
WN BWI-JAN MAR 1.5>1.0
WN BWI-MCO MAR 9>8
WN BWI-MSY MAR 2.0>3
WN BWI-PIT MAR 3>4
WN CHS-MDW MAR 1.2>2
WN CMH-DEN MAR 0>1.0
WN Top
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:02 pm

WN DEN-EWR MAR 0>3
WN DEN-JAX MAR 0>1.0
WN DEN-LAX MAR 8>7
WN DEN-MHT MAR 0>1.0
WN DEN-MKE MAR 0>2
WN DEN-PIT MAR 0>1.0
WN DEN-PVD MAR 0>1.0
WN DTW-MDW MAR 7>6
WN EWR-HOU MAR 0>1.8
WN EWR-MDW MAR 0.9>6
WN EWR-PHX MAR 0>2
WN EWR-STL MAR 0.3>1.9
WN FLL-JAX MAR 5>4
WN FLL-MHT MAR 0.1>1.0
WN FLL-TPA MAR 8>7
WN GEG-SEA MAR 3>0
WN GSP-MDW MAR 1.2>2
WN HOU-HRL MAR 7>5
WN HOU-MDW MAR 6>7
WN IND-TPA MAR 1.7>1.3
WN ISP-MCO MAR 5>4
WN ISP-MDW MAR 3>2.0
WN ISP-TPA MAR 3>2
WN JAN-MDW MAR 1.5>1.0
WN JAX-PHL MAR 1.0>0
WN JAX-TPA MAR 3>1.8
WN LAS-MHT MAR 1.0>0
WN LAS-ONT MAR 8>6
WN LAS-PHX MAR 14>13
WN LAS-SNA MAR 8>7
WN LAX-OAK MAR 14>12
WN LAX-PHX MAR 11>9
WN MCO-PHL MAR 6>5
WN MHT-PHL MAR 4>0
WN MHT-PHX MAR 1.0>0
WN MKE-STL MAR 0>2
WN ONT-PHX MAR 8>6
WN PHL-PHX MAR 1.6>1.1
WN PHL-PIT MAR 6>0
WN PHL-PVD MAR 4>0
WN PHX-PIT MAR 1.6>1.0
WN PHX-PVD MAR 1.0>0
WN PHX-TPA MAR 1.5>1.0
WN PIT-TPA MAR 3>1.9
WN RNO-SJC MAR 3>2
WN SAN-SMF MAR 11>10
WN SJC-SNA MAR 7>8
 
apodino
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:25 pm

The ONT beating continues from everyone as it loses even more frequency. LAWA has run that airport into the ground.

Also, it looks like CO is pulling quite a bit of capacity out of EWR, on what look like some normally high yielding routes. BOS going to 9X daily is surprising to me. I am not sure if this is related to the UA/CO consolidation or not. But surprisingly, there is no UA adjustments hardly.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:36 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO IAH-ELP DEC 6>5

More and more IAH-ELP is changing from E145 to CR7.

So . . . upgrading ELP-LAX from CR2 to CR7 (46 miles longer than IAH-ELP) also would be nice.  
 
ordbosewr
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:37 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
Also, it looks like CO is pulling quite a bit of capacity out of EWR, on what look like some normally high yielding routes. BOS going to 9X daily is surprising to me. I am not sure if this is related to the UA/CO consolidation or not. But surprisingly, there is no UA adjustments hardly.

Be careful, as it may enrilia would say, it may be some of a transition between CO marketed to UA marketed flights. For some reasons those are a mess.

I know that this has been the challenge on routes like EWR-MSP, ATL, etc
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA LAX-ELP DEC 1.5>1.0

Hard to figure since WN is flying full planes -- frequently with standbys -- on this route.
 
sw733
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:45 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
The ONT beating continues from everyone as it loses even more frequency. LAWA has run that airport into the ground.

Which is sad. I go to Palmdale a lot on business and ONT is still my absolute favorite of the LAWA airports. It's a bit further than BUR, but it's nice, clean, quick, rental cars are right there, highway is right there, decent hotels in the area, security is always a breeze.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:02 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 MCI-MSP NOV 1.8>0 DEC 1.8>0 JAN 1.8>0 FEB 1.9>0 MAR 1.9>0 APR 1.8>0
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 MKE-MSP NOV 4>0 DEC 4>0 JAN 4>0 FEB 4>0 MAR 4>0 APR 4>0 MAY 1.2>0

Delta runs another low fare airline off these two routes. I don't want to think how much higher fares on these routes will go once F9 leaves. I would think MCI-MSP would be a natural for WN - hopefully, they will add it.....
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
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enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 6497
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:05 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
Also, it looks like CO is pulling quite a bit of capacity out of EWR, on what look like some normally high yielding routes. BOS going to 9X daily is surprising to me. I am not sure if this is related to the UA/CO consolidation or not. But surprisingly, there is no UA adjustments hardly.
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 3):
More and more IAH-ELP is changing from E145 to CR7.
So . . . upgrading ELP-LAX from CR2 to CR7 (46 miles longer than IAH-ELP) also would be nice.  
Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 4):
Be careful, as it may enrilia would say, it may be some of a transition between CO marketed to UA marketed flights. For some reasons those are a mess.

Yeah I'll say it too. I can't wait until the merger their *3* schedules. YES, there are three. CO, UA, and another schedule invisible from OAG because of scope restrictions on branding of flights in some markets. I don't know what is real and what isn't.

Quoting sw733 (Reply 6):
Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
The ONT beating continues from everyone as it loses even more frequency. LAWA has run that airport into the ground.

Which is sad. I go to Palmdale a lot on business and ONT is still my absolute favorite of the LAWA airports.

LAWA is run as a political entity and not a business. LAWA runs all its airports into the ground. They have been working an enormously expensive redo of LAX that basically nobody wants and will make it ridiculously expensive there.
 
apodino
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:12 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
LAWA is run as a political entity and not a business. LAWA runs all its airports into the ground. They have been working an enormously expensive redo of LAX that basically nobody wants and will make it ridiculously expensive there.

The problem with LAWA is that they are an arm of the LA city government which reports to the LA city council. Which is not a problem with running LAX. The problem is that they run ONT, which is not an airport that the city of LA really benefits from as ONT benefits the inland empire a lot more. So what LAWA has done is they have made ONT unattractive to fly from with higher landing fees and rent than LAX, and these have become so high that no one can make money there anymore. Inland empire politicians are screaming that this has harmed the local economy and have tried to wrest control of ONT away from LAWA, so they can run it with the inland empires interests in mind, and not be lacky to LAX. Of course, the LA City Council voted to keep ONT under their control.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:31 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO EWR-IND DEC 6>3
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO IAH-IND DEC 6>4

Unless the remaining flights are upgauged, those are pretty drastic reductions for a station (and city!) the size of IND.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
LAXintl
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:36 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
enormously expensive redo of LAX that basically nobody wants

Just reading A.net seems every poster here seems to feel the terminals needed major changes.

Quoting apodino (Reply 9):
. So what LAWA has done is they have made ONT unattractive to fly from with higher landing fees and rent

LAWA rightfully does not cross subsidise airports. ONT needs to stand on its own, and as demand has declined result of the Inland Empires economy tanking its fees rose accordingly.

Btw - for the record many fees for the recently adopted FY2012 budget at ONT are actually down, not up.

Also important to note, the airline community has opposed many LAWA cost saving initiatives - one being consolidate all the airlines into a single terminal, which would chop off significant portion of operation cost. Instead they preferred the current spacious two-terminal set up which cost them all more money.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
apodino
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:49 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):

LAWA rightfully does not cross subsidise airports. ONT needs to stand on its own, and as demand has declined result of the Inland Empires economy tanking its fees rose accordingly.

That's the same thing that PIT did (Which was the catalyst that led to the US dehubbing), and the reason demand has dropped is because of the increase in fees. I agree that LAX should not be subsidizing ONT but when you have one entity controlling two airports, one of which clearly has much more benefits to the city than the other one, where is that entity going to try to steer all the traffic to?

I don't know the whole inland empire, but the local politicians believe that because landing fees and user fees have spiked at ONT, this is what caused the airlines to pull out and instead of lowering fees to stimulate demand and increase revenues, the airport is doing the exact opposite, which is hurting the local economy even more. This is why the inland empire communities want to run ONT themselves, because they would run it with the local interests in mind (Which is how any airport should be run), not with the city of LA's.

I find it weird that both SNA and BUR are closer to Los Angeles than LAX, and yet those airports are run locally and are thriving. Shouldn't ONT be run locally as well?
 
apodino
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:01 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):

Btw - for the record many fees for the recently adopted FY2012 budget at ONT are actually down, not up.

Better late than never, this should have been the case years ago.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):

Also important to note, the airline community has opposed many LAWA cost saving initiatives - one being consolidate all the airlines into a single terminal, which would chop off significant portion of operation cost. Instead they preferred the current spacious two-terminal set up which cost them all more money.

It looks good on paper, but the fact remains that LAWA still has to pay for two terminals that were built, so in essence the airport would be paying for a white elephant, and thus would they really save the airlines any money.. If the economy recovers and demand picks up, the airlines are going to need space to grow into. And lastly, ONT is a very popular diversion airport when LAX and other airports tank. By keeping space in two terminals it makes it much easier to handle diversions.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:10 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
enormously expensive redo of LAX that basically nobody wants

Just reading A.net seems every poster here seems to feel the terminals needed major changes.

Just because it's a pain doesn't mean it's a good idea to have the cost per enplanement go from $8 to $27 to fix it. Ask the same people if fixing it is worth paying $20 every time they fly out of there and they will likely say NO. That part of the equation is never explicit, but the passengers ultimately pay the bill.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
LAWA rightfully does not cross subsidise airports.

Didn't they rather famously subsidize Palmdale with the UA* service paid from LAX funds?
 
ScottB
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA DEN-ABQ DEC 7>5
UA DEN-COS DEC 11>10
UA DEN-DRO DEC 8>7
UA DEN-LAS NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
UA DEN-OMA DEC 6>5
UA DEN-ONT DEC 4>1.8
UA DEN-PHX NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4 JAN 5>4 FEB 6>5 MAR 6>5
UA DEN-RAP DEC 7>6
UA DEN-SJC DEC 5>4
UA DEN-TPA DEC 2>1.5
UA DEN-XNA DEC 1.7>1.2
UA DEN-YEG DEC 3>4
UA DEN-YQR DEC 2>1.9
UA DEN-YYZ DEC 3>1.8

...but all is well for United at DEN, nothing to see here, move along...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MCI-HOU NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.0 APR 1.4>1.0

They pulled back capacity on that new route quickly -- it was only announced a month ago and doesn't even start for another month-and-a-half.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MKE-BOS NOV 3>1.7 JAN 3>1.8 FEB 3>1.9 MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.9 MAY 0.8>0.6

This is a huge capacity cut year-over-year, as it was 3 daily on the A319 last winter and this winter it appears to be an E170 and an E190. Plus, the last time MKE-BOS had only two daily YX/F9 flights was almost 20 years ago. Then again, MSN and ATW were both served by YX/YX* going all the way back to the beginning of the airline.
 
smoot4208
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:23 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO IAH-ACA JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.8 MAR 1.0>0.7

ACA takes another hit...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MKE-SAT NOV 0.4>0.2

Looks like it will end a few days sooner now.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
G4 LAS-TWF JAN 0.3>0.0

TWF taking a another "seasonal" suspension? Or is this getting axed for good?
 
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:57 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
...but all is well for United at DEN, nothing to see here, move along...

Discounting my earlier comments about the mess of interpreting the UA/CO schedules, my guess is that they gutted Christmas week and that is why this is a DEC only change.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MCI-HOU NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.0 APR 1.4>1.0

They pulled back capacity on that new route quickly -- it was only announced a month ago and doesn't even start for another month-and-a-half.

Apparently going about as well as MCI-MSP was. Sad, really...

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
This is a huge capacity cut year-over-year, as it was 3 daily on the A319 last winter and this winter it appears to be an E170 and an E190. Plus, the last time MKE-BOS had only two daily YX/F9 flights was almost 20 years ago.

They probably needed the plane to fly BOS-PUJ or whatever it is for Apple. The lack of mainline on MKE-BOS is probably why they are stuck flying DEN-BOS 1/week.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 16):
Looks like it will end a few days sooner now.

Yup
 
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:59 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
where is that entity going to try to steer all the traffic to?

LAWA does not do much steering. Its the airlines, and ultimately consumers that determine demand from one airport to another...
See my below comments as to how other regional LA area airports also continue to see traffic declines.

You also realize that LAWA is under court-order to keep traffic growth at LAX limited right? LAWA does not want LAX to grow unchecked as it will be forced to withdraw up to 10-gates from service if traffic hits the 75mil mark.
At the end of the day, other metro airports benefit LAWA and LAX as it distributes the regions traffic demand, and lets LAWA better manage LAX without imposition of various court decrees.

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
I find it weird that both SNA and BUR are closer to Los Angeles than LAX, and yet those airports are run locally and are thriving. Shouldn't
You understand that traffic at BUR and SNA are down also? Matter of fact BUR enplanments in 2010 were the lowest they have been in 8-years.

Bob Hope Airport saw another drop in passenger traffic in 2010
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-in-passenger-traffic-in-2010.html

SNA is not much better - experiencing declined enplanement every year since 2005.

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
This is why the inland empire communities want to run ONT and forced LAWA the only other airport entity in the region to take it over.
Might be worthwile to understand the history of LA and LAWA have sunk into the airport.

Quoting apodino (Reply 13):
Better late than never, this should have been the case years ago.

Fees move around as demand and cost shift.

Keep in mind LAX) being the regional hub for UPS, which drives signifcant revenues and significantly effects the airports cost structure.

Quoting apodino (Reply 13):
but the fact remains that LAWA still has to pay for two terminals that were built, so in essence the airport would be paying for a white elephant, and thus would they really save the airlines any money..

Sure they would save airlines money. It was estimated the airport could reduce its ongoing operating budget between 20-30% by shuttering one of the terminals. This would have been money directly back into the airlines pockets.

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Didn't they rather famously subsidize Palmdale with the UA* service paid from LAX funds?

No. The funds for the Palmdale United Express service came from a mix of $900,000 Federal SCASD grant monies plus City of Palmdale funding.

LAWA support provided only media buys including radio adds which is what they do for
Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Just because it's a pain doesn't mean it's a good idea to have the cost per enplanement go from $8 to $27 to fix it.


Don't know where you came up with the $27 rate, however it unknown what the ultimate cost burden will be at this stage.

[Edited 2011-09-15 11:10:11]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LAXintl
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:13 pm

Sorry but A.net seems to have gone a bit crazy on the format of my responses above.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:43 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):

Sorry but A.net seems to have gone a bit crazy on the format of my responses above.

I've been having more and more problems with javascript run amok on this site. Some computers I use freeze as soon as I hit this site. Then there are all sorts of weird problems tied to the abbreviation linking software they are using.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:50 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
WN FLL-JAX MAR 5>4
Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
WN JAX-PHL MAR 1.0>0
WN JAX-TPA MAR 3>1.8

Why is JAX losing so much SW service? a loss of 3 daily in December? the only routes they've added/increased service is DEN/LAS thats it...

Thanks

Matteo
 
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:58 pm

Quoting JaxMan19 (Reply 21):
Why is JAX losing so much SW service? a loss of 3 daily in December? the only routes they've added/increased service is DEN/LAS thats it...

Like UA/CO, this could be Frequency being moved to FL. As Enilra has explained, the way OAG is set up makes these merger adjustments real tricky to figure out.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:08 pm

Quoting JaxMan19 (Reply 21):
Why is JAX losing so much SW service? a loss of 3 daily in December? the only routes they've added/increased service is DEN/LAS thats it...
Quoting apodino (Reply 22):
Like UA/CO, this could be Frequency being moved to FL. As Enilra has explained, the way OAG is set up makes these merger adjustments real tricky to figure out.

That's possible, although I've been looking at FL and I don't think that is what happened. I think WN is doing as I've been saying which is to de-emphasize leisure flying.

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
WN HOU-HRL MAR 7>5
Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
WN LAS-MHT MAR 1.0>0
WN LAS-ONT MAR 8>6
WN LAS-PHX MAR 14>13
WN LAS-SNA MAR 8>7

That's a pretty big cut for HRL in Spring Break season, for example. They want business passengers now. This is why I didn't like the FL-WN merger.
 
tommy767
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:12 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

CO CLE-MIA DEC 1.0>0.7
CO CLE-MSY DEC 1.0>0.6
CO CLE-PIT DEC 4>3
CO DEN-ANC DEC 0>0.5
CO EWR-ANU DEC 0.8>0.9
CO EWR-ATL DEC 7>4
CO EWR-BOS DEC 11>9
CO EWR-CLT DEC 6>3
CO EWR-CMH DEC 6>4
CO EWR-CUN DEC 3>1.9
CO EWR-DEN DEC 5>6
CO EWR-DTW DEC 6>5
CO EWR-FRA JAN 1.0>1.6 FEB 1.0>1.5 MAR 1.0>2 APR 1.0>2 MAY 1.0>2
CO EWR-IND DEC 6>3
CO EWR-JAX DEC 4>3
CO EWR-LAS DEC 6>4
CO EWR-MBJ MAR 0.5>0.4
CO EWR-MSP DEC 6>5
CO EWR-MSY DEC 3>1.3
CO EWR-PIT DEC 7>4
CO EWR-PLS MAR 1.0>0.6
CO EWR-RDU DEC 7>5
CO EWR-SJD DEC 0.5>0.4
CO EWR-STL DEC 7>5
CO EWR-YHZ DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3
CO EWR-YUL NOV 4>3 DEC 6>3 JAN 6>5
CO EWR-YYT DEC 0>0.5

Some EWR cuts? I don't think many were predicting this.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:28 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 24):
Some EWR cuts? I don't think many were predicting this.

UA previously announced they were cutting EWR December capacity 3% y-o-y. Most of the flights you cited are 50-seaters. So ~30 flights, mostly E-145s, sounds about right.

The DEN cuts should be much more gruesome and I don't think most of then have been listed yet.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:39 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 25):
So ~30 flights, mostly E-145s, sounds about right.

These are slots. Will they be replaced by new routings?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
ScottB
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:42 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
Discounting my earlier comments about the mess of interpreting the UA/CO schedules, my guess is that they gutted Christmas week and that is why this is a DEC only change.

Maybe, but only at DEN? The changes in the rest of the PMUA network are quite modest.

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
The ONT beating continues from everyone as it loses even more frequency.

ONT keeps taking a hit because its core market area is in horrible economic shape. The metro area unemployment rate of 14.7% was 14th-worst in the nation, and while unemployment is at similar (though slightly lower) rates in Las Vegas and Detroit, those two cities still have key drivers of passenger traffic (tourism for LAS, industry for DTW) which ONT lacks.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:22 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 27):
Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
Discounting my earlier comments about the mess of interpreting the UA/CO schedules, my guess is that they gutted Christmas week and that is why this is a DEC only change.

Maybe, but only at DEN? The changes in the rest of the PMUA network are quite modest.

It's not uncommon for the schedulers to roll out one region or hub at a time. DL does that frequently as does AA. I don't really watch UA/CO that closely as I've stated. Once they actually combine I'll pay attention again. LOL
 
steeler83
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:06 pm

It still irks me about PIT losing WN service to PHL. But, if the flying public out of PIT still wants to resort itself to the tortures of US regional jet flying for the most part, far be it from me to call them crazy...

I do understand WN wanting to shift some of its focus away from PHL in favor of BWI tho (high O&D and no competition from other airlines, especially with the acquisition of FL). I always thought PHL-PIT was one of their more successful routes. So yeah, once again refer to my statement above...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:31 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
LAWA is run as a political entity and not a business. LAWA runs all its airports into the ground. They have been working an enormously expensive redo of LAX that basically nobody wants and will make it ridiculously expensive there.

On the contrary, if they want to fix some of the nasty bathrooms in Terminals 1, 6, and 8 and drive those black-tailed rats out of Terminal 1 and the American Eagle Terminal, it will gets the public's ovation.
 
jadedchameleon
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:35 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 27):

Maybe, but only at DEN? The changes in the rest of the PMUA network are quite modest.

I'd say at least some of these cuts to DEN *are* modest. Taking my home airport and comparing November to December (OMA->DEN, one of the listed cuts)... we lose one frequency but one of the regional flights goes mainline (A319). By my quick calculation that's 510 seats down to 494 (only ~ -3%). Later in the month of December, that A319 becomes a A320, and an ERJ-145 becomes a CRJ-700 for a net INCREASE in seats over November.

Perhaps UA is getting smarter about deploying more competitive aircraft on some of the DEN routes? (Here's hoping.)
 
point2point
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:19 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO DEN-ANC DEC 0>0.5

Interesting. You would think that with UA/CO, F9, and AS all flying this route daily in the summer months, that at least one airline could make a go of this route throughout the year, even if not on a daily basis.

Will the new UA/CO maybe go there?
 
LAXintl
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:25 am

Well now that I had some time, I cleaned up the post that was butchered prior.

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
where is that entity going to try to steer all the traffic to?

LAWA does not do much steering. Its the airlines, and ultimately consumers that determine demand from one airport to another...
See my below comments as to how other regional LA area airports also continue to see traffic declines.

You also realize that LAWA is under court-order to keep traffic growth at LAX limited right? LAWA does not want LAX to grow unchecked as it will be forced to withdraw up to 10-gates from service if traffic hits the 75mil mark.
At the end of the day, other metro airports benefit LAWA and LAX as it distributes the regions traffic demand, and lets LAWA better manage LAX without imposition of various court decrees.

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
I find it weird that both SNA and BUR are closer to Los Angeles than LAX, and yet those airports are run locally and are thriving.

How do you define "thriving"

You understand that traffic at BUR and SNA are down also? Matter of fact BUR enplanments in 2010 were the lowest they have been in 8-years.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-in-passenger-traffic-in-2010.html

SNA is not much better - experiencing declined enplanement every year since 2005.

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
This is why the inland empire communities want to run ONT themselves, because they would run it with the local interests in mind (Which is how any airport should be run), not with the city of LA's.

Might be worthwile to understand the history of ONT and how LA and LAWA ended up with the airport.

Those Inland communities abandoned the airport and walked away due to prospects of it draining millions from their coffers and thus forcing then the only other capable airport entity in the region to step forward and have to take it over.
LA and LAWA have pilled hundreds of millions into the airfield since then, and certainly have a right to get their investments back at the very least.

Quoting apodino (Reply 13):
Better late than never, this should have been the case years ago.

Fees move around as demand and cost shift.

Keep in mind there is a lot more to ONT than passenger operations. Its the West Coast 2nd largest (after LAX) air-freight airport being the regional hub for UPS, which drives significant revenues and significantly effects the airports resultant cost structure.

Quoting apodino (Reply 13):
but the fact remains that LAWA still has to pay for two terminals that were built, so in essence the airport would be paying for a white elephant, and thus would they really save the airlines any money..

Sure they would save airlines money. It was estimated the airport could reduce its ongoing operating budget between 20-30% by shuttering one of the terminals. This would have been money directly back into the airlines pockets.

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Didn't they rather famously subsidize Palmdale with the UA* service paid from LAX funds?

No. The funds for the Palmdale United Express service came from a mix of $900,000 Federal SCASD grant monies plus City of Palmdale funding. In typical SCASD fashion when the money ran out, so did the flights.

LAWA support essentially provided only media buys including radio adds which is what they do for ONT today.

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Just because it's a pain doesn't mean it's a good idea to have the cost per enplanement go from $8 to $27 to fix it.

Don't know where you came up with the $27 rate, however it unknown what the ultimate cost burden will be at this stage as the buildout and airfield configuration has not even been finalized yet.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
NWADC9
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:15 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
OZ LAS-LAX DEC 0>0.8 JAN 0>0.9 FEB 0>0.9

Codeshare? Or is Asiana indeed flying a US domestic route? I'm assuming one cannot book this leg alone?
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
indywa
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:03 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 10):
Unless the remaining flights are upgauged, those are pretty drastic reductions for a station (and city!) the size of IND.
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 24):
Some EWR cuts? I don't think many were predicting this.

Again, these LOOK like cuts, but they aren't. Many of these routes are operated by the 70 seat aircraft so they are UNITED EXPRESS flights...Shuttle America does these runs to MSP/ATL/IND, etc...so it might LOOK like a cut by CO but it's actually still there as a UA flight. See all the posts about the CO/UA pilot scope issues.
 
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STT757
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:05 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
Also, it looks like CO is pulling quite a bit of capacity out of EWR, on what look like some normally high yielding routes

You can't take anything from those schedules as they don't show the routes operated by UAX, they're switching back and forth which makes it difficult to keep track of.

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
Yeah I'll say it too. I can't wait until the merger their *3* schedules. YES, there are three. CO, UA, and another schedule invisible from OAG because of scope restrictions on branding of flights in some markets. I don't know what is real and what isn't.

AMEX Skyguide doesn't even show the UAX flights from EWR other than to IAD.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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RWA380
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:31 am

Enilria, I have never personally taken the time to thank you for all your work, so, thanks! In regards to the HA svcs listed above, is OGG-PDX being cancelled for good? Has AS won this route to fly unchallenged? I guess the planes to fly OAK/SJC-OGG had to come from somewhere. When DL pulled their 753's from PDX-HNL it left PDX with one HA flight to HNL and the rest of Hawaii flying to AS, one big reason I expect a 738 PDX-LIH soon. At one time or another we had, CO, UA, BN, PA, NW, WA. On various widebody 747's, DC-8'S, DC-10's, L-1011's. PDX needs more Hawaii service not less. Everytime I go there flights are full and fares usually highesr than from SEA. Maybe WN or G4 needs to see the hole in service and help us out.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:20 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 24):
Some EWR cuts? I don't think many were predicting this.

They're using OAG which along with Skyguide do not list UAX flights from CO's hubs. They're not including the UAX flights, for instance;

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO EWR-IND DEC 6>3

This change is only showing half the picture, it shows the 3 daily COEX ERJs. It does not show the 3 daily UAX ERJ-170s, EWR-IND is still 6 daily. Infact it's getting a nice increase in capacity going from 6 daily ERJs to 3 daily ERJs and 3 daily ERJ-170s.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO EWR-CLT DEC 6>3

This routes is still six daily

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO EWR-ATL DEC 7>4

This route is still 7 daily ( 2 ERJ-145, 2 737-500, 3 ERJ-170). Again they're not displaying the 3 daily UAX flights.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:32 pm

For obvious reasons alot of the Mexican resorts have seen major cancellations and slim downs. ACA has probably seen the most seat reduction and puerto Vallarta has seen a ton too. It's standard to see resortsin PV and ACA selling for ridiculously low compared to what they got at those same dates years ago.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:34 pm

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 29):
It still irks me about PIT losing WN service to PHL. But, if the flying public out of PIT still wants to resort itself to the tortures of US regional jet flying for the most part, far be it from me to call them crazy...

A classic case of not supporting competition and ending up with none.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 30):
On the contrary, if they want to fix some of the nasty bathrooms in Terminals 1, 6, and 8 and drive those black-tailed rats out of Terminal 1 and the American Eagle Terminal, it will gets the public's ovation.

Again, airports don't like remodels. They like blasting down buildings and spending billions. Passengers like new stuff, but they don't like paying higher fares.

Quoting point2point (Reply 32):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO DEN-ANC DEC 0>0.5
Interesting. You would think that with UA/CO, F9, and AS all flying this route daily in the summer months, that at least one airline could make a go of this route throughout the year, even if not on a daily basis.
Will the new UA/CO maybe go there?

I had missed the seasonal element of that move. I presume it is some sort of Holiday deal.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
No. The funds for the Palmdale United Express service came from a mix of $900,000 Federal SCASD grant monies plus City of Palmdale funding. In typical SCASD fashion when the money ran out, so did the flights.

LAWA support essentially provided only media buys including radio adds which is what they do for ONT today.

I thought there was an announcement back then that LAX would use their funds to help divert traffic to PMD as a reliever?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Just because it's a pain doesn't mean it's a good idea to have the cost per enplanement go from $8 to $27 to fix it.

Don't know where you came up with the $27 rate, however it unknown what the ultimate cost burden will be at this stage as the buildout and airfield configuration has not even been finalized yet.

Those are just estimates from people I have talked to that work at LAWA and they are probably a year old too, but the point is that the increase will be something like that if they build all the stuff they want to build.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 36):
Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
Yeah I'll say it too. I can't wait until the merger their *3* schedules. YES, there are three. CO, UA, and another schedule invisible from OAG because of scope restrictions on branding of flights in some markets. I don't know what is real and what isn't.

AMEX Skyguide doesn't even show the UAX flights from EWR other than to IAD.

Confirmation that the merger schedule is a wreck in terms of OAG. That's why I ignore it.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 37):
Enilria, I have never personally taken the time to thank you for all your work, so, thanks!

THANKS! I appreciate that. My goal really is that people get a better feel for how airlines make decisions and particularly the cause and effect of schedule changes in terms of one thing leading to another.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
This change is only showing half the picture,

...or a third of the picture.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
This routes is still six daily

See above.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 39):
For obvious reasons alot of the Mexican resorts have seen major cancellations and slim downs. ACA has probably seen the most seat reduction and puerto Vallarta has seen a ton too.

It's sad. ACA is not a surprise. It is Ground Zero in terms of the drug war. PVR's impact is more of a surprise.
 
boberito6589
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:09 pm

RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:40 am

It was announced today that part of this weeks US schedule change included the cancellation of PHX-TEX service on US this winter, the statement to employees was:

"We made the decision to pull our seasonal winter service between PHX and TEX, which originally was scheduled to
operate Dec. 16 through the first week of April. To reduce future bookings, we zeroed out the service and it will be pulled from the system this Saturday, Sept. 17. Jason Reisinger, director, Route Planning, said, “This decision was primarily driven by Mesaba’s exit and our need to backfill that schedule, which left us without the necessary aircraft for this winter’s TEX service.”

So they are saying that the reason is because of Mesaba and the need to backfill their routes, Does that mean that a few Mesa CR2/DH8 are coming to the east side and therefore can't fly PHX TEX? Or post-Mesa were the going to take a Piedmont Dash to the west to fly this route?

The schedule change was apparently very large this week so I assume the changes will show up on the report next week...
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11516
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:10 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
I think WN is doing as I've been saying which is to de-emphasize leisure flying.

What does that have to do with JAX? Aside from a few niche beach destinations - probably similar in volume to HHH - JAX is not a leisure destination. It's in Florida on the map, but in terms of market dynamics (not size), it's much more SAV than MCO.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
smoot4208
Posts: 595
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:39 am

RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:22 am

Quoting boberito6589 (Reply 41):
It was announced today that part of this weeks US schedule change included the cancellation of PHX-TEX service on US this winter, the statement to employees was:

"We made the decision to pull our seasonal winter service between PHX and TEX, which originally was scheduled to
operate Dec. 16 through the first week of April. To reduce future bookings, we zeroed out the service and it will be pulled from the system this Saturday, Sept. 17. Jason Reisinger, director, Route Planning, said, “This decision was primarily driven by Mesaba’s exit and our need to backfill that schedule, which left us without the necessary aircraft for this winter’s TEX service.”

So they are saying that the reason is because of Mesaba and the need to backfill their routes, Does that mean that a few Mesa CR2/DH8 are coming to the east side and therefore can't fly PHX TEX? Or post-Mesa were the going to take a Piedmont Dash to the west to fly this route?

The schedule change was apparently very large this week so I assume the changes will show up on the report next week...

I'm surprised that this won't operate this winter. I knew they wouldn't fly there after this winter with the DH8s going but I figured they would keep flying there through this winter season. I'm not sure I buy that Mesa will back fill operations on the east coast though. Mesaba's exit will be in BOS and LGA. I don't think US has any intention of keeping BOS-BUF/ROC/SYR/ALB
 
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enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 6497
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RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:49 am

Quoting boberito6589 (Reply 41):
he schedule change was apparently very large this week so I assume the changes will show up on the report next week...

Hopefully!

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 42):
Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
I think WN is doing as I've been saying which is to de-emphasize leisure flying.
What does that have to do with JAX? Aside from a few niche beach destinations - probably similar in volume to HHH - JAX is not a leisure destination. It's in Florida on the map, but in terms of market dynamics (not size), it's much more SAV than MCO.

JAX is fairly non-leisure, but it is still a beach market to some extent. I think airlines think of it as a beach market.
 
FutureUScapt
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:39 pm

RE: OAG Changes 9/16/2011: AM/CO/F9/UA/WN

Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:39 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 44):

JAX is fairly non-leisure, but it is still a beach market to some extent. I think airlines think of it as a beach market.

Not really. It has much more stable demand year-round than FL beach destination. The capacity picture seemingly confirms this: Between Oct and Dec of this year, MCO/TPA will see an increase of roughly 7% in seats and the value is even higher for southeastern Florida airports like FLL and PBI. JAX, meanwhile, will actually see a small decrease, two-thirds of which can be accounted for via cuts in intra-Florida capacity.