OldAeroGuy
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777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:43 pm

With today's announcement of 8 orders, total sales of the 777 have reached 1392. To date, 1532 747's have been sold.

The sales gap between the two models is only 140. I suspect the 777 will pass the 747 sometime in 2014.

Any other speculation?
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
na
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:59 pm

Congrats to the engineers and sales agents at Boeing.
But its rather sad for me to read it. I´d wish the 777 never passes the great ´47 in sales!
 
DFWHeavy
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:12 pm

Who ordered the latest 8 frames?
Christopher W Slovacek
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:20 pm

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 2):
Who ordered the latest 8 frames?

Unannounced
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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seabosdca
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:27 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Thread starter):
The sales gap between the two models is only 140. I suspect the 777 will pass the 747 sometime in 2014.

That seems optimistic for the 747.

Assume 20 747 sales/year and 120 777 sales/year, and the moment will happen in 2013.

And the 777 has a much higher-volume future. The day of 777X EIS will be the day there is no longer any reason to order a passenger 747. Freighters are nice but they are not going to help the 747 catch up.
 
ukoverlander
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:36 pm

Am I correct in believing that the 777 has also never been involved in a fatal air accident?

If I recall correctly, aside from the Heathrow crash just short of the runway the 777 has not been involved in any major air accidents over the last 15 years. Pretty incredible considering how many flight hours these birds have amassed collectivley.

If I'm wrong feel free to jump in and correct me (though I doubt an invitation to do so will be required!)

 
 
747400sp
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:57 pm

Quoting na (Reply 1):
Congrats to the engineers and sales agents at Boeing.
But its rather sad for me to read it. I´d wish the 777 never passes the great ´47 in sales!

I also, dislike the ideal of the 777 passing the 747, as the best saling wide body in the world.
 
cosmofly
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:17 pm

I believe the Chinese has 12 pending "government approval". Eva is on record saying that it will order 10. So it is probably safe to assume at least another 30 firm orders in the pipeline.

  If Boeing launches 777X, launch customer will order 100.  


As is, the 748i can only find niches. I wonder if Boeing can gather enough orders to justify launching a 748 combi. Current KLM 744 combi seats 275 pax. 748i stretch adds 50 seats to 325. With some galley optimization, there is a chance the number can be up to 350 pax. It will be a very good option with no equals for routes that are both dense in pax and cargo.

The 747 is still the only 1.5 deck plane. I have been on record promoting adding seats using OSU space to make the 748i to seat up to 450 pax in real life configuration, thus reducing CASM substantially when compared to today's 400 pax count. If the perceived challenges can be overcome, the 748i can truly be a choice between the future 777X and a future A389.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:17 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 6):
also, dislike the ideal of the 777 passing the 747, as the best saling wide body in the world.

When it happens, remember that the 777 will have been inservice for 25 fewer years. Interesting how the civil aviation market has evolved.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
Viscount724
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:52 am

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 5):
Am I correct in believing that the 777 has also never been involved in a fatal air accident?

Correct.
 
Flaps
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:05 am

I'm betting that the 777 passes the 747 in orders within a week of the launch announcement of the 777X.
 
747400sp
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:01 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):

Correct.




Yes, I may not like the fact that they are being used as 747 replacements, or that they will out sale my favortie airliner, as the best saling wide body, or the fact that Fed Ex order them in place of their A380 order, but I will tell any body, that the 777 is the safest airliner everbuilt. As a 747 fan, I should not say this, but it is the truth. The only thing the 77W lack is a 0.85 cruising speed, and I believe Boeing is going the fix that with the 777X.


PS: Well, I guess the L1011/DC-10 size 767 has left it's mark on the world.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:03 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 10):
I'm betting that the 777 passes the 747 in orders within a week of the launch announcement of the 777X.

Just on the EK order.   

I would expect it to pass the 747 orders at the announcement.   

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 8):
When it happens, remember that the 777 will have been inservice for 25 fewer years. Interesting how the civil aviation market has evolved.

The market is tremendously different than when the 777 entered service. In many ways as the 777 has changed the market.

Although, where do you get 25 years? Is that when the estimated 777 production surpasses total 747 production? EIS for the 777 was 1995. It is only 16 years young.  


Now the real question, will the 77L outsell the 773 (non-ER)?    I suspect improvements in the 77W have capped 77L sales.  

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:39 am

Quoting cosmofly (Reply 7):

For all the work Boeing had to put into the 748 for a 6m stretch, I wonder why they didn't just extend the hump all the way back. They already had the fuselage jigs for the hump.

Still, spilt milk.

How much room is available in the overhead area?
What the...?
 
jtdieffen
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:12 am

I'm confused as to where the number came from...at the end of August, the 777 had 1269 firm orders according to the Boeing O & D website. I believe that 12 more have been posted this month, bringing the total to 1281. What am I missing?
Regards! JDief
 
timpdx
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:28 am

The 777 has changed long haul aviation forever, its place passing the 747 is well deserved. As much as I love the 747 series, the 777 is also one of my faves. Flown on them on segments from just an hour on Vietnam Airways up to 14+ hours on Alitalia. Its a big, beautiful beast of a plane, almost a 737 fuselage diameter powerplant hanging on each wing.

[Edited 2011-09-15 21:29:14]
 
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Stitch
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:47 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
For all the work Boeing had to put into the 748 for a 6m stretch, I wonder why they didn't just extend the hump all the way back.

It would not have been a 747 if they did.  

I shudder to think of the engineering involved. If only real life was as easy as Photoshop.  
 
CXB77L
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:10 am

This is great news! I can't wait for the inevitable moment when the 777 surpasses the 747 in total sales.

That said, I love the 747 too, and I think it's a pity that despite the introduction of the 748i, sales of the 747 series has been slowed to a trickle. It will be a sad, sad day when the last passenger 747 rolls off the production line, even if it will still continue to serve as freighters.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
Although, where do you get 25 years? Is that when the estimated 777 production surpasses total 747 production? EIS for the 777 was 1995. It is only 16 years young.

I do believe OldAeroGuy said that the 777 has been in service for 25 fewer years than the 747  
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:09 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):

The program might even have been delayed...
What the...?
 
vaus77w
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:41 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 8):
I have been on record promoting adding seats using OSU space to make the 748i to seat up to 450 pax

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what is OSU space?
 
CXB77L
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:02 am

Quoting vaus77w (Reply 19):
Sorry if this is a stupid question but what is OSU space?

Overhead Space Utilisation:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...oeings-skylofts-gets-new-bert.html
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:06 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
Although, where do you get 25 years?
Quoting CXB77L (Reply 17):
I do believe OldAeroGuy said that the 777 has been in service for 25 fewer years than the 747

Yes

1995 777 EIS
1970 747 EIS

25 fewer years
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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lightsaber
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:02 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 21):
25 fewer years

ahhh... I missread. Mea culpa.

Neil
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
The777Man
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:27 pm

Quoting jtdieffen (Reply 14):
I'm confused as to where the number came from...at the end of August, the 777 had 1269 firm orders according to the Boeing O & D website. I believe that 12 more have been posted this month, bringing the total to 1281. What am I missing?

Hi !

Good question; I find the same numbers on Boeing's website.

Still, very impressive numbers for the 777 and it probably will pass the 747 in a few years.

I've had many great flighs on the 777 as welll including flighs on all airlines (47 so far) with direct delivery from Boeing. Some flights have been short like HKG-CAN on CZ and some very long like DXB-LAX on EK.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
ukoverlander
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RE: 777 Total Sales Close In On 747

Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:28 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 11):
but I will tell any body, that the 777 is the safest airliner everbuilt

It's certainly a fantastic thing for Boeing and kudos to the 777 for it's phenomenal safety record.

I'm not pouring cold water on this achievement but it may even be that such a record is statistically improbable. Relative to the aviation industry as a whole, when so many aircraft have been built and flown and so many hours have been spent in the air. After all, a fatal accident does not have to be the result of a fault in the aircraft itself and most of the time is not.

Anyway, for anybody out there with a fear of flying the the 777 should give you a great deal of confidence based upon this amazing track record.