LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:24 am

As the previous thread is becoming too long with 250+ replies, something not good for our fellow members without fast speed internet connections, we are opening the thread # 12

Link to the previous one

Brazilian Aviation News 11 (by LipeGIG Jun 17 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Recent Developments:

- Airport developments remain unclear
- LA to add seasonal services to FLN, GIG and GRU
- JJ decided to reduce GIG-FRA/LHR, to ground 2 A345
- EK said to operate A380 (DXB-GRU)
- IB decided to drop MAD-FOR-REC


US-Brazil market 03/2011
Source: DOT

JJ
MIA-GIG 95.8%
JFK-GRU 92.8%
MCO-GRU 92.6%
MIA-GRU 91.5%
JFK-GIG 91.0%
MIA-BSB 86.7%
MIA-MAO 86.2%
MIA-CNF 57.2%

GIG-JFK 95.7%
GRU-JFK 94.0%
CNF-MIA 93.1%
GIG-MIA 89.8%
GRU-MIA 87.6%
GRU-MCO 85.1%
MAO-MIA 80.3%
BSB-MIA 79.2%

charter
REC-MIA 94.6%
MIA-REC 96.4%

KE

LAX-GRU 81.4%
GRU-LAX 69.3%

AA

MIA-GIG 90.4%
DFW-GRU 87.8%
MIA-SSA-REC 87.7%
JFK-GIG 87.3%
MIA-GRU 86.8%
JFK-GRU 84.4%
MIA-BSB 82.5%
MIA-CNF 82.1%
DFW-GIG 79.9%


CNF-MIA 88.2%
GRU-DFW 87.2%
GIG-MIA 85.8%
GIG-JFK 85.1%
GRU-MIA 84.8%
GIG-DFW 82.3%
GRU-JFK 80.0%
SSA-REC-MIA 75.0%
BSB-MIA 61.0%


US

CLT-GIG 76.9%
GIG-CLT 73.3%


DL

ATL-GRU 82.7%
ATL-GIG 80.8%
JFK-GRU 76.1%
ATL-BSB 74.9%
DTW-GRU 63.6%

GRU-ATL 77.1%
GIG-ATL 76.2%
GRU-JFK 70.3%
GRU-DTW 56.4%

UA

IAH-GIG 81.2%
IAH-GRU 80.4%
EWR-GRU 80.0%
ORD-GRU 77.5%
IAD-GRU-GIG 76.6%

GIG-IAH 79.7%
GRU-IAH 79.6%
GRU-EWR 78.9%
GRU-ORD 75.5%
GIG-GRU-IAD 74.1%
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
AwysBSB
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:05 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
US-Brazil market 03/2011
Source: DOT


Those numbers show JJ as the most benefited player of the US-Brazil market. That proves again that this market is leaded Brazilian passengers.

As I told in the last thread, G3 is waiting too long to take its part of this market.

[Edited 2011-09-16 08:08:20]
 
CNForever
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:24 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:35 pm

Great numbers.

CNF had good results. Best AA route northbound. Impressive 93% on TAM.
The exception still being the TAM´s MIA-CNF leg that has no connectivity and a horrible schedule.
At least TAM changed in August this schedule to allow some connections in CNF.
It proves that the majority of passengers wants red eye flights. Same applies for BSB-MIA on AA.



Rgds


PS. Does anyone have some new info about the rumour of Delta in CNF ??
 
BNAOWB
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:01 pm

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:08 pm

Does anyone have an update regarding the potential Kenya Airways NBO-GRU route that was discussed in the following link about 2 months ago?: Kenya Airways To Serve Sao Paulo (by incitatus Jul 19 2011 in Civil Aviation)

I scanned through the last Brazilian thread but could not find any sort of update. So, I apologize if it was discussed there. Is this route unlikely to come about?
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:39 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 1):
Those numbers show JJ as the most benefited player of the US-Brazil market. That proves again that this market is leaded Brazilian passengers.

No doubt. JJ takes full advantage of being the sole "Portuguese" speaker airline. I believe many passengers pay the premium to fly with them (and because of extra bag allowance).

Quoting CNForever (Reply 2):
PS. Does anyone have some new info about the rumour of Delta in CNF ??

I believe they were looking into what they can do in 2012 but giving the fact they still need to further develop DTW which do not seems so good performer on low season.

Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 3):
Does anyone have an update regarding the potential Kenya Airways NBO-GRU route that was discussed in the following link about 2 months ago?: Kenya Airways To Serve Sao Paulo (by incitatus Jul 19 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Right now i don't think this development will happen. Nothing has been said since that moment.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
AF086
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:46 pm

AZ will fly an extra FCO-GIG weekly frequency for a 3-week period between late January and early February as follows:

AZ 670 FCO GIG 14.40 00.10 - Su - 332
AZ 671 GIG FCO 05.45 20.00 - Mo - 332

The other 5 frequencies remain unchanged. Guess AZ is collecting excellent results on the route.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
AF086
Posts: 506
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:38 am

Passaredo requested new flights yesterday:

PTB 2328 > PLU 07h15 GIG 08h15 > Erj145 > DAILY
PTB 2329 > GIG 09h00 PLU 10h00 > Erj145 > DAILY

PTB 2330 > PLU 10h50 GIG 11h50 > Erj145 > DAILY
PTB 2331 > GIG 12h40 PLU 13h45 > Erj145 > DAILY

PTB 2332 > PLU 15h25 GIG 16h30 > Erj145 > DAILY
PTB 2333 > GIG 17h15 PLU 18h15 > Erj145 > DAILY

PTB 2334 > PLU 18h45 GIG 19h45 > Erj145 > DAILY
PTB 2335 > GIG 20h15 PLU 21h20 > Erj145 > DAILY
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
SCL767
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:04 pm

GOL Linhas Aéreas Inteligentes S.A. and Aerolineas Argentinas have signed a MOU in order to begin code-sharing and link frequent flyer programs:
http://www.mzweb.com.br/gol2009/web/.../GOL_Aerolineas_RI_clean_final.pdf
 
AwysBSB
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:15 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
GOL Linhas Aéreas Inteligentes S.A. and Aerolineas Argentinas have signed a MOU in order to begin code-sharing and link frequent flyer programs:
http://www.mzweb.com.br/gol2009/web/...l.pdf

This G3-AR partnership seems to end like today's "Supeclássico das Américas": the Brazilian winning only at home.

We can expect AR leading the international network of that agreement and even resuming the Argentina-Brazil-Europe service.
 
C010T3
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:23 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 8):
We can expect AR leading the international network of that agreement and even resuming the Argentina-Brazil-Europe service.

I really don't see it.
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:32 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
I really don't see it.

AR just can't compete with the major carriers. Their flights are always late and their strategy is non-existent. With AR and G3 potentially code-sharing, they would dominate the AEP-GRU route with 9 daily flights; whereas 4M only operates 2 daily flights between Argentina and Brazil, (AEP-GRU 2x daily). It would be great if the Argentine ANAC would grant 4M a few frequencies. LAN wanted to start COR-GRU a while back, not happening!
 
jpyvr
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2000 10:00 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:30 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
No doubt. JJ takes full advantage of being the sole "Portuguese" speaker airline. I believe many passengers pay the premium to fly with them (and because of extra bag allowance).

From what I understand, the extra baggage allowance is something that the Brazilian government mandates for ALL airlines selling international tickets that begin and end in Brazil, not just JJ. I'm not absolutely certain that is the case but I've had it explained to me that way several times, and I know I've flown Air Canada YVR-YYZ-GRU on the return portion of a round-trip ticket with bags well above the normal AC allowance - and haven't been charged excess baggage.
 
C010T3
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:49 pm

Quoting jpyvr (Reply 11):
From what I understand, the extra baggage allowance is something that the Brazilian government mandates for ALL airlines selling international tickets that begin and end in Brazil, not just JJ. I'm not absolutely certain that is the case but I've had it explained to me that way several times, and I know I've flown Air Canada YVR-YYZ-GRU on the return portion of a round-trip ticket with bags well above the normal AC allowance - and haven't been charged excess baggage.

AFAIK, the 2x 32kg allowance is bilaterally agreed with North American countries, but unilaterally imposed on European, Middle Eastern and African countries, which means that every passenger has the same rights on North America-Brazil segments, while on the other countries' carriers the passenger must originate in Brazil.
The allowance on South American carriers is lower.
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:00 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
AFAIK, the 2x 32kg allowance is bilaterally agreed with North American countries, but unilaterally imposed on European, Middle Eastern and African countries, which means that every passenger has the same rights on North America-Brazil segments, while on the other countries' carriers the passenger must originate in Brazil.
The allowance on South American carriers is lower.
Quoting jpyvr (Reply 11):
From what I understand, the extra baggage allowance is something that the Brazilian government mandates for ALL airlines selling international tickets that begin and end in Brazil, not just JJ.

But with many passengers under top categories, the top customers can carry amazing 4 bags for free on JJ.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
atlflyer
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:25 am

JJ has the nicest in-flight product on these routes.
 
Neo
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:06 am

Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 14):
JJ has the nicest in-flight product on these routes.

Well.. i'm not so sure about that... specially if u get a 763. I'll tell u I just flew MIA-GIG in one of them and there was nothing nice about that...

Rgs,

Neo
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:43 am

Does anyone know when CADE are expected to release their ruling on the LAN takeover of JJ?

I have asked on a couple of threads, but no one seems to know when it is due.
 
C010T3
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:06 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
Does anyone know when CADE are expected to release their ruling on the LAN takeover of JJ?

I have asked on a couple of threads, but no one seems to know when it is due.

Nobody knows, because there is no deadline or forecast.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:26 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 17):
Nobody knows, because there is no deadline or forecast.

OK, thanks for that... so they don't actually have a timeframe by which they have to complete their review? and there don't seem to be any hints/leaks or rumours in the media to suggest whether they are close to making any decision?
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:12 pm

AD is adding 3x daily service VCP-LDB (eff Feb-2012) and 2x daily GIG-POA service.

JJ is moving... now selling J seats on GRU-MAO as an experience. Not a different service, just the seat.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
OK, thanks for that... so they don't actually have a timeframe by which they have to complete their review? and there don't seem to be any hints/leaks or rumours in the media to suggest whether they are close to making any decision?

Now they have as a new law was approved this week. 240 days.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 2180
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:59 pm

Have Brazilian carriers made any progress on allowing foreign passengers to purchase tickets on their websites? When I was there a few years ago it was impossible to purchase a ticket online without a CPF. That is really going to be unfortunate for 2014 WC and 2016 Olympics if the domestic carriers do not get with the program.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:44 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
Now they have as a new law was approved this week. 240 days.

240 days from when the law was passed? or from when they started their review of the proposed takeover?
 
User avatar
robffm2
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:56 pm

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 20):
Have Brazilian carriers made any progress on allowing foreign passengers to purchase tickets on their websites? When I was there a few years ago it was impossible to purchase a ticket online without a CPF. That is really going to be unfortunate for 2014 WC and 2016 Olympics if the domestic carriers do not get with the program.

I did buy already some years ago from Germany with a German CC a ticket GRU-SSA-GRU without problems.
 
tonytifao
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:22 pm

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 20):
Have Brazilian carriers made any progress on allowing foreign passengers to purchase tickets on their websites? When I was there a few years ago it was impossible to purchase a ticket online without a CPF. That is really going to be unfortunate for 2014 WC and 2016 Olympics if the domestic carriers do not get with the program.

They really haven't. You should go around by using a travel site like Expedia. Some sites will allow you to use it, but it is very strict to which CC you will use. I believe GOL has an option now for foreign CC.
 
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TK787
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:41 pm

Hi there,
We are having a conversation about the mistreatment of some pax when entering some EU countries from Turkey, mainly local police waiting at the gate and checking passports and such.
What happened to the Brazilian policy of fingerprinting US citizens, and what did it achieve? Brazilians being treated better or different than any others now, since they took that stance?
Would love to hear from you on our thread, Thanks.
Turkish Aviation October 2011 (by TK787 Sep 30 2011 in Civil Aviation)
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:55 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 21):
240 days from when the law was passed? or from when they started their review of the proposed takeover?

From the date of the law, for new transactions.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 24):
Hi there,
We are having a conversation about the mistreatment of some pax when entering some EU countries from Turkey, mainly local police waiting at the gate and checking passports and such.
What happened to the Brazilian policy of fingerprinting US citizens, and what did it achieve? Brazilians being treated better or different than any others now, since they took that stance?
Would love to hear from you on our thread, Thanks.

That happen during a short period of time.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
User avatar
TK787
Posts: 3087
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:21 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 25):
That happen during a short period of time.

Why? Could you please explain? How did it change? Thanks.
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:37 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 26):
Why? Could you please explain? How did it change? Thanks.

They realized that the procedure was not only against Brazilians but any national of any country that it was not on the visa waiver list.
Also, if there was any potential fault over that, was because Brazilians use to visit the USA as tourists and stay as immigrants without the right visa.

A judge, as it believes something targeting Brazilians, impose to the Federal Government the need to fingerprint USA nationals. The Federal Government, knowing that this could hurt tourism and business ties, went to a higher court to suspend the order and got it.

Now is a little different as Brazilians are coming back due to better economic situation in Brazil.

I expect Brazil to be part of the VWP in the future, but not now as some requirements are far from being covered such as a quicker report on stollen and blank passport issued, and the type of passport mostly Brazilians hold, without any technological advance.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
andrefranca
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:10 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:36 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 24):

They did! but you gotta look for the "visa verified" lol!
 
andrefranca
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:10 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:44 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):

IMHO it will take aaaages for us to get into the VWP, Argentina and Uruguay were members in the past, but due to economic crises in the early 2000's they were "invited out".... Brazil does have the potential but we also got a lot of people under the poverty line and they would use it as an excuse to immigrate illegaly!

Quoting TK787 (Reply 24):

In France and Germany they also do it... I was searched as soon as I left JJ plane and they bring dogs with them, later you go to the border control and they seem to target women (human trafficking problems)...
 
CNForever
Posts: 66
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:20 am

Any news regarding the US-BR market in April ??
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:34 am

Quoting CNForever (Reply 30):
Any news regarding the US-BR market in April ??

Good numbers. I'm trying to put in order.
Best performer again.... JJ GIG-JFK service, 98.2% Load Factor. Probably that's the reason it was the only long haul out of GIG without reduction on JJ network.

CNF performed well

AA MIA-CNF 80.7%
AA CNF-MIA 88.7%
JJ MIA-CNF 77.8%
JJ CNF-MIA 92.3% - Best CNF route

DL in general showed average numbers

GRU-JFK 73.9%
JFK-GRU 68.6%
BSB-ATL 67.4%
ATL-BSB 67.5%
DTW-GRU 58.2% - Worst performer overall route
GRU-DTW 63.4%
ATL-GRU 79.5%
GRU-ATL 81.5% - DL Best average LF and highest LF route
GIG-ATL 79.4%
ATL-GIG 70.9%

US despite all predictions....

CLT-GIG 72.6%
GIG-CTL 84.2%

....And now with some cargo!

CO/UA with also not so spetacular numbers

IAH-GIG 73.5%
GIG-IAH 82.7% (the 772 flights got 94.2%)
IAH-GRU 77.6%
GRU-IAH 83.0%
EWR-GRU 76.9%
GRU-EWR 84.7% - UA Best Route in average LF, highest LF
ORD-GRU 70.5%
GRU-ORD 79.0%
IAD-GRU-GIG 71.1%
GIG-GRU-IAD 74.8%

AA seems better

MIA-GIG 88.4% - AA Best route in average LF
GIG-MIA 89.4%
MIA-GRU 87.2% (772 flights got 89.5%, 763 flights 86.0%)
GRU-MIA 88.9% (772 and 763 closer)
DFW-GRU 84.6%
GRU-DFW 90.2% - AA Best performing leg
MIA-CNF 80.7%
CNF-MIA 88.7%
DFW-GIG 68.2%
GIG-DFW 88.4%
BSB-MIA 61.4%
MIA-BSB 78.6%
MIA-SSA-REC 72.2%
REC-SSA-MIA 78.8%
JFK-GIG 79.4%
GIG-JFK 87.2%
JFK-GRU 80.3%
GRU-JFK 86.4%


JJ - surprise for many..... they probably are printing money on JFK routes. GIG-JFK again the top performer....
with the rates they charge Brazilians... and with the F almost every day full... i believe this is the key market for JJ in terms of profits right now.

GRU-MIA 91.3%
MIA-GRU 93.6%
GIG-MIA 91.1%
MIA-GIG 94.8%
MIA-MAO 87.3%
MAO-MIA 79.7%
MCO-GRU 94.2%
GRU-MCO 91.4%
CNF-MIA 92.3%
MIA-CNF 77.8%
BSB-MIA 85.4%
MIA-BSB 88.5%
GIG-JFK 98.2% - overall best performer route - 64 empty seats in a month.
JFK-GIG 91.9%
GRU-JFK 97.9% - overall best performer average LF route
JFK-GRU 93.4%

KE

LAX-GRU - 72.4%
GRU-LAX - 70.8%

Improving a lot on the Sao Paulo-Los Angeles leg.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
CNForever
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:24 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:03 am

Excellent Lipe ! Thank you very much ! Great numbers !! As you said, many predictions made here ...
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:46 pm

Quoting CNForever (Reply 32):
Excellent Lipe ! Thank you very much ! Great numbers !! As you said, many predictions made here ...

I don't like to predict the future as many variables can lead to substantial changes.
But the fact is that, TAM have tried to run different routes and they got good results just showing that there's room for something different.
While many here expected better results from DTW, it does not seems to be the case so far, even with the stronger Real.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:41 pm

TAM finalizes order for 32 A320 Family aircraft, including 22 A320neo

Fantastic news as TAM has finalized its agreement for 32 Airbus A320 aircraft, which will consist of 22 A320neo and 10 A320 Family aircraft. The new aircraft will be delivered between 2016 and 2018. Thus, TAM will be the launch customer for the A320neos in Latin America!

TAM finalizes order for 32 A320 Family aircraft, including 22 A320neo


TAM finalizes order for 32 A320 Family aircraft, including 22 A320neo

[Edited 2011-10-20 08:04:53]
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:13 pm

Very interesting thread

I just read in the business magazine "Exame" (paper edition so no link, sorry) that they take it for certain that JJ will be leaving Star in 2012 as LAN will not abandon OW on its side...

I'm a bit sad to read this "confirmation"
Aside from the major consequences it can have on the EU-Brasil traffic (like MAD becoming THE JJ hub instead of FRA), it will accelerate the disengagement of JJ here at CDG : from 3 dailies we're already at 1 daily on Sundays and soon on Thursdays....
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
SCL767
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:41 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 35):
it will accelerate the disengagement of JJ here at CDG : from 3 dailies we're already at 1 daily on Sundays and soon on Thursdays....

JJ operates into CDG 12x weekly, (GRU-CDG daily and GIG-CDG 5x weekly). During 2010, LAN originally planned on operating SCL-GIG-CDG instead of SCL-MAD-CDG. A SCL-GIG-CDG routing is viable for LA/JJ to operate after the combination is completed, and LAN does intend to resume services to París-CDG via Brazil. AF has already responded by increasing frequency on the CDG-SCL route to a daily service year-round. Also, it's important to note that JJ will soon launch GRU-MEX daily.
 
airbazar
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:46 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 35):
Aside from the major consequences it can have on the EU-Brasil traffic (like MAD becoming THE JJ hub instead of FRA)

I doubt that very much. For starters MAD offers no connections to Asia which is the strong point of both FRA and MUC.
Second, MAD's hot and high characteristics is not suitable for TAM's twin engined fleet. Third, TAM is not really known for flying to its partner hubs. They don't serve any *A hub in the US for example.
 
SCL767
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:10 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
I doubt that very much. For starters MAD offers no connections to Asia which is the strong point of both FRA and MUC.

TAM operates into LHR 10x weekly where certain connections to/from Asia are available, and hopefully BA will add more destinations to Asia from LHR in the future. CX, JL, MH, and QF can also offer LATAM connections to/from Asia via FRA. LATAM could eventually fly to certain points in Asia via South Africa, (certain connections to/from Asia are already available via JNB on CX and MH), and New Zealand as well.
 
andrefranca
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:10 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:43 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 35):

As a JJ employee, we can already feel LA's influence, it's becoming heavier, mainly on the financial side!  
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
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RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 35):
I just read in the business magazine "Exame" (paper edition so no link, sorry) that they take it for certain that JJ will be leaving Star in 2012 as LAN will not abandon OW on its side...

Under the conditions set by Chilean authorities, LATAM is not allow to join Star, because it is not allows to be in the same alliance as Avianca/TACA.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
I doubt that very much. For starters MAD offers no connections to Asia which is the strong point of both FRA and MUC.

Contrary to the constant myths perpetuated on this forum, very little South America-Asia traffic transits via Europe. The United States continues to account for well over 85% of South America-Asia traffic. The entrance of EK and QR has stolen some of that traffic, but Europe remains a very unpopular connecting point for South America-Asia.
a.
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:34 pm

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 39):
As a JJ employee, we can already feel LA's influence, it's becoming heavier, mainly on the financial side!

Both LAN and TAM have shared a common goal before agreeing to the combination. Both LA and JJ wanted to become major international carriers; however they realized that they needed to combine operations to be on par with carriers such as BA/IB, AF/KL, LH/LX/OS/BD, etc. in order to be competitive with the foreign carriers. LA wants JJ to operate routes that are potentially very lucrative; especially international routes and will offer JJ both feed and access to other markets throughout South America. I'm sure LAN advised TAM to launch GRU-MEX because it will be a lucrative route for JJ. LAN tends to be forward thinking...
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:55 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 40):
Under the conditions set by Chilean authorities, LATAM is not allow to join Star, because it is not allows to be in the same alliance as Avianca/TACA.

That's true, but of course until CADE release their findings we don't actually know whether the combined airline ( if the merger is approved by them) will be allowed in OW either. The restriction imposed by the Chilean authorities makes sense ( even as a die-hard *A fanboy I agree the combo of LATAM and Avianca-Taca in *A would be detrimental to competition) , but I don't think anyone predicted it ahead of time. It could be said that a restriction preventing a combo of LATAM and AA in OW would also make sense. I guess we will have to wait and see whether it makes sense to CADE. So far as I am aware that don't seem to be dropping any hints as to when or even if they will approve the takeover, let alone what restrictions they may choose to impose if they do let it go ahead.
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:07 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 42):
It could be said that a restriction preventing a combo of LATAM and AA in OW would also make sense. I guess we will have to wait and see whether it makes sense to CADE.

Brazil has already signed an Open Skies Treaty with the U.S. Other Brazilian carriers could operate into the U.S. if they wanted to since there are available frequencies on the Brazilian side. However, both GOL and AV Brasil choose not to operate long-haul routes. Important to note that both Chile and Perú also have full Open Skies with the U.S. and LA/LP have ATI with AA.
 
airbazar
Posts: 6866
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:39 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 38):
TAM operates into LHR 10x weekly where certain connections to/from Asia are available, and hopefully BA will add more destinations to Asia from LHR in the future. CX, JL, MH, and QF can also offer LATAM connections to/from Asia via FRA. LATAM could eventually fly to certain points in Asia via South Africa, (certain connections to/from Asia are already available via JNB on CX and MH), and New Zealand as well.

The discussion was about TAM leaving FRA in favor of MAD.
It's true that LHR can offer just as many connections but LHR has that pesky little problem of slots not being available so I REALLY don't see TAM leaving FRA in favor of LHR either.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 40):
Contrary to the constant myths perpetuated on this forum, very little South America-Asia traffic transits via Europe. The United States continues to account for well over 85% of South America-Asia traffic. The entrance of EK and QR has stolen some of that traffic, but Europe remains a very unpopular connecting point for South America-Asia.

You're lumping TAM in with all of S.America which is a grave mistake, IMHO. I bet the numbers would be very different if you were to consider only TAM passengers. JFK is the only airport in N.America where TAM can connect to Asia. If 85% of their customers were using the US to connect to Asia that would imply that the vast majority of their JFK passengers are connecting to Asia. Simply not true. Europe, and FRA especially are TAM's primary Asian connecting gateway.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 40):
The entrance of EK and QR has stolen some of that traffic, but Europe remains a very unpopular connecting point for South America-Asia.

It's not that it's unpopular. It's that historically, US carriers have controlled this market so naturally, most of it flows thru the US. I mean, the 2 largest European carriers in S.America, controlling more than 50% of the market (IB and TP), don't even serve Asia.

[Edited 2011-10-20 17:48:30]
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:55 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 44):
The discussion was about TAM leaving FRA in favor of MAD.
It's true that LHR can offer just as many connections but LHR has that pesky little problem of slots not being available so I REALLY don't see TAM leaving FRA in favor of LHR either.

Neither LAN or TAM will leave FRA; especially given business travel between FRA and both Brazil and Chile. LAN has been operating into FRA for decades! In terms of connections between South America and Asia, LAN operates flights into AKL, JFK, LAX, SFO and SYD to provide those connections. LP launched GRU-LIM-SFO specifically for pax in Brazil. Also, LAN just entered into a code-share agreement with JAL, maybe TAM will follow along after the combination is approved. Have you noticed that CA operates PEK-MAD-GRU and SQ operates SIN-BCN-GRU. Perhaps one day in the future, LATAM will operate routes, i.e. GRU-MAD-NRT, GRU-MAD-PVG, GRU-MAD-SIN, etc.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:45 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 43):
Brazil has already signed an Open Skies Treaty with the U.S. Other Brazilian carriers could operate into the U.S. if they wanted to since there are available frequencies on the Brazilian side.

Does the open skies agreement include GRU and are there slots available at GRU at suitable times? If LATAM is approved I would think that the minimum that could be reasonably expected is for JJ to have to rmake available slots for GRU-MIA and GRU-JFK to other Brazilian carriers. If those carriers choose not to take up the slots so be it, but they should have the opportunity, otherwise the 'open skies' agreement is simply nonsense.
 
incitatus
Posts: 2700
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:48 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
Third, TAM is not really known for flying to its partner hubs.

TAM is really known for flying almost nowhere!   Their list of longhaul destinations is pretty poor.
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SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:54 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 46):
Does the open skies agreement include GRU and are there slots available at GRU at suitable times? If LATAM is approved I would think that the minimum that could be reasonably expected is for JJ to have to rmake available slots for GRU-MIA and GRU-JFK to other Brazilian carriers. If those carriers choose not to take up the slots so be it, but they should have the opportunity, otherwise the 'open skies' agreement is simply nonsense.

Does either AV Brasil or G3 have wide-body a/c? IIRC, G3 recently retired its fleet of B-767s and Avianca Brasil does not have any wide-body a/c, (Avianca desperately needs them to grow next year from its hub at BOG).
 
incitatus
Posts: 2700
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Brazilian Aviation News 12

Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:48 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 31):
US despite all predictions....

CLT-GIG 72.6%
GIG-CTL 84.2%

I heard their revenue per available seat mile is terrible compared to what Delta gets out of ATL. For starters, CLT has close to no business traffic to Brazil, while ATL has some. The nonstop market is not a big share of either flight, but it tends to have a good chunk of business class - at least at ATL.
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