Jamake1
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JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:15 pm

Speaking at Boston College's Chief Executives Club of Boston, Dave Barger said the following:

Airline hopes to acquire all gates in Terminal C

Increase BOS departures from 100 to 150

In talks with Massport to start service at Worcester and Providence

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/ne...orcester-providence.html?ana=yfcpc
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FWAERJ
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:17 pm

Interesting about ORH.

Wasn't B6 offered ORH access by Massport first before they could get access to (and started) BOS?
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flyby519
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:19 pm

Welcome to Wooostahh! Dollah Twenty Five puhleaseee!

Highly doubt we will see B6 in ORH in the next decade. I'd give PVD a 50/50 shot at some limited service
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stlgph
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:22 pm

i could actually see Worcester happening. apparently, lots of drive ins from central Mass to Bradley for their service there.
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ScottB
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:33 pm

Quoting jamake1 (Thread starter):
In talks with Massport to start service at Worcester and Providence

They don't need to talk to Massport to start service at PVD. My read on this is that B6 wants all of BOS Terminal C, and they are offering some token service at ORH to get Massport to twist more arms to make that happen. But United isn't going to move unless they have sufficient gates where they move to (and that's not possible at Terminal A) and someone else pays the bill for the move.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 3):
i could actually see Worcester happening. apparently, lots of drive ins from central Mass to Bradley for their service there.

I don't. ORH is a real pain-in-the-butt to drive to unless you're coming from right in Worcester.
 
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:54 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 4):
I don't. ORH is a real pain-in-the-butt to drive to unless you're coming from right in Worcester.

jetBlue is the "cool, hip" airline of New England. people will go out of their way to get to it, just like they do for an Ikea.
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contrails15
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:09 pm

The expanded BOS is no surprise. BOS is gonna be a mini JFK. Going through the same things we went through with an out dated terminal, horrible baggage system and no room to expand. Thats changing now with the renovation thus the expansion. ORH and PVD. PVD like every other city in the US has been a rumor for a long long time but ORH is new to me. Give people more of an option? I'm not familiar with the Boston area but I'm guessing ORH would be like ISP is too NYC?
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zrs70
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:47 pm

Worcester! Cool! I think it's still the second largest New England City. I loved in the late 80's / early 90's when Piedmont, Continentsl, and USAir all flew mainline jets into ORH's tiny former terminal with retrofitted ground level jetways!
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BOStonsox
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:11 pm

B6 in Worcester? That would be so cool, it's too bad I don't live in the area anymore.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 4):

I don't. ORH is a real pain-in-the-butt to drive to unless you're coming from right in Worcester.

Not really, it's about a 15-minute drive from the intersection of Route 146 and I-290.

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 6):
I'm not familiar with the Boston area but I'm guessing ORH would be like ISP is too NYC?

Oh God, no. It would be more akin to Teterboro, or maybe HVN. The only service it has currently is Direct Air.
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lat41
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:20 am

PVD second city in New England. Metro area far larger than ORH. Winter weather on the ground and in the air a bit tamer and milder than either BOS or ORH and road access easier than either. That might not mean a thing toward potential new JetBlue service or any other carrier's, but to set the record straight.
 
zrs70
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:35 am

Quoting lat41 (Reply 9):
PVD second city in New England. Metro area far larger than ORH.

According to Wikipedia (and we all know how reliable that is!) ORH is larger than PVD. But I'm not sure if that is metro or city alone. Actual source in the 2010 census.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England
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flyby519
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:58 am

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 6):
The expanded BOS is no surprise. BOS is gonna be a mini JFK. Going through the same things we went through with an out dated terminal, horrible baggage system and no room to expand. Thats changing now with the renovation thus the expansion.

Yep! All this PVD/ORH talk is just to get the BOS Massport folks riled up. Once BOS gives B6 the entire C terminal we wont hear anything more about PVD/ORH.
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airbazar
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:30 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 5):
jetBlue is the "cool, hip" airline of New England. people will go out of their way to get to it, just like they do for an Ikea.

I don't buy it. They're no more cool and hip than WN is. If people are going out of their way it's because its fares are attractive and they serve a market not served by other airlines. I can't imagine that many people driving from NH to BOS to fly B6 to Florida unless all of the cheap fares from MHT are sold.
 
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:32 am

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 11):
Yep! All this PVD/ORH talk is just to get the BOS Massport folks riled up. Once BOS gives B6 the entire C terminal we wont hear anything more about PVD/ORH.

I disagree. I think we will see B6 at BOS, PVD, and MHT, regardless of whether or not they get all of Terminal C. ORH may not be too farfetched either, as Worcester is less isolated than it used to be now that Route 146 has been upgraded to a freeway, and it is seldomly used by Direct Air.
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apodino
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:37 am

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 11):
Yep! All this PVD/ORH talk is just to get the BOS Massport folks riled up. Once BOS gives B6 the entire C terminal we wont hear anything more about PVD/ORH.

I am not sure if that is their motive or not. The problem is not that Massport doesn't want to give B6 all of Terminal C, it is that United doesn't want to move, and they want to stay in C after UA/CO are finished combining. As most of us well know, Massport is doing everything in their power to find a way to get UA out of C, but the biggest problem is United has threatened legal action if they are bullied out of C. B6 twisting Massport arms even more is not going to help, only United caving will, and they don't appear to be doing so.

ORH is a bit risky, because for one you risk taking your own pax away from BOS, and two no one else has been able to make ORH work (Even Allegiant of all companies), mainly because the road access to ORH is horrible. They have tried to address this, but there has been NIMBY opposition to improved roadways since it would likely require folks to be displaced, and right now there is no money for such improvements anyways.

I do think though that B6 would have no trouble in PVD. There is gate and ticket space open for them thanks to AA's pull out and pending mergers. PVD has a bigger catchment area than you think, that isn't always specific to BOS, it is also the closest airport to Foxwoods (I doubt though that air travel is the primary means of visiting there), and it now has the new rail station as well (Even though the schedule sucks at the moment). My prediction though as far as PVD goes is that if B6 launches service there (You would likely be looking at JFK, MCO, and FLL for starters), then with WN also there competing it would lead to the legacies pulling down most of whats left of their mainline flying. (Maybe not DL because of the WN ATL deal, but certainly UA and US)
 
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:33 am

I think you will see B6 start service to ISP,PVD and MHT in the next 2 years. As for Worcester I can see in with few flights like SWF. I'm a WN guy but B6 is my first airline of choice when it comes to travel their product is AWESOME. I think WN biggest blunder was letting DAVID NEEDLEMAN go with his crazy vision. And also passing on the JFK deal and going with ISLIP instead. Enjoy wnfg
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flyby519
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:16 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 14):
ORH is a bit risky, because for one you risk taking your own pax away from BOS, and two no one else has been able to make ORH work (Even Allegiant of all companies), mainly because the road access to ORH is horrible. They have tried to address this, but there has been NIMBY opposition to improved roadways since it would likely require folks to be displaced, and right now there is no money for such improvements anyways.

Agreed, also wouldnt it canabilize some of their BDL traffic? Especially the Florida/Caribbean traffic?
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:27 am

MASSPORT controls both BOS and ORH. Massport would be thrilled if they could get some airline service to ORH, as pointed out 15-20 years ago ORH had very respectable service from regional affiliates of AA, CO, DL etc.. B6 offering to launch flights from ORH is a quid pro quo with MASSPORT to get their help in acquiring the remainder of the Terminal C gates.
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shamrock137
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:02 pm

The rumor at PVD is that a group from RIAC recently met with jetBlue in New York to present their case to try and convince the airline to start service into PVD. They seem to be desperate to attract more airlines, as passenger numbers have been on a steady decline since 2006. However, rent for gates and space at PVD is extremely high. RIAC has been trying to convince Cape Air to resume year round service, yet their one of their arguments against it is that they currently pay more for gate space in PVD then in BOS. It would be interesting to see what routes jetBlue would operate, and how Southwest would react.
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airbazar
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:40 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 14):
B6 twisting Massport arms even more is not going to help, only United caving will, and they don't appear to be doing so.

You're assuming that B6 is not talking to UA which to me would be the more likely scenario. If the CEO is "really optimistic" I'd say this is more than a wish and that something is already in the works. It's all about finding the right price.
Think about the potential for B6 expanding into TATL routes with the A321NEO and being right next to the International terminal. Places like LGW, MAN, DUB, LIS, PDL, VLL would all be reachable from BOS. Maybe even CDG/BRU/AMS/DUS.

[Edited 2011-09-23 06:03:29]
 
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:20 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 12):
I don't buy it. They're no more cool and hip than WN is. If people are going out of their way it's because its fares are attractive and they serve a market not served by other airlines. I can't imagine that many people driving from NH to BOS to fly B6 to Florida unless all of the cheap fares from MHT are sold.

sorry bud, jetblue definitely comes across as more of the 'hip' airline than Southwest does - by a long shot, especially in the land between New York and Boston.
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:33 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 2):
Highly doubt we will see B6 in ORH in the next decade. I'd give PVD a 50/50 shot at some limited service

PVD is quite possible. ORH isn't. That is something Massport really wants and B6 is probably paying lip service to get something in BOS.

Quoting jamake1 (Thread starter):
In talks with Massport to start service at Worcester and Providence

Of course Massport does not control PVD. It sounded that way from the way you worded it.  
Quoting Shamrock137 (Reply 18):
The rumor at PVD is that a group from RIAC recently met with jetBlue in New York to present their case

The rumor is probably true, but a procession of 3 or 4 airports a week visits the B6 HQ...so it doesn't mean anything.
 
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:06 pm

Given WN's pending pull-out from all PHL-New England non-stop routes next year; I wonder if one of B6's additional BOS routes will be to PHL?
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Spunker
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:11 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 20):

I like jetBlue alot better than Southwest. I just can't see ORH happening. They haven't been able to support airline service there for a long time. I could see PVD on winter FL services. I see this as B6 marking their territory before WN starts getting any ideas.
 
delta2ual
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:22 pm

Maybe DL can move back in to C and B6 can have all of A?
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airbazar
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:48 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 20):
sorry bud, jetblue definitely comes across as more of the 'hip' airline than Southwest does - by a long shot, especially in the land between New York and Boston.

I didn't say they weren't. I'm just saying that I don't believe that cool and hip is enough to make someone wrestle through heavily congested traffic to get to BOS to fly B6 when they can fly many other airlines, for similar fares from PVD/MHT/BDL. At least in New England, B6 is predominantly a "local" airline". By local I mean, if you don't live in greater Boston no one is going out of their way to fly B6 unless it's a really good deal. And by the way, the "coolness" effect has worn off a great deal. At least up here in Boston, B6 is pretty much just another LCC. They're a dime a dozen these days  
 
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:55 pm

My guess is they will see what throwing PVD into the mix does for their overlap area passengers. There will be some pax that currently use BOS that could switch back to PVD, some will come from WN due to a better B6 product, and some will be new from enhanced competition. Based on what they see, will determine if they will do ORH. If B6 ever becomes gate constrained in BOS, it would nto be far fetched to see MCO and FLL frequencies come out to support business markets in BOS.
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:44 pm

Meanwhile to the north of ORH: Mark Brewer is holding another pep rally telling the crowd "OK boys and girls, if you click your heels three times, close your eyes and wish really really hard, someday MHT might get B6 too", before returning to his office to play solitaire for the rest of the day.
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apodino
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:48 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 24):
Maybe DL can move back in to C and B6 can have all of A?

Not gonna happen at all. DL poured way too much money into Terminal A to move out of C in the first place. And with the gate space they would need, you still don't solve the UA/CO PM gate issue.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 19):

You're assuming that B6 is not talking to UA which to me would be the more likely scenario. If the CEO is "really optimistic" I'd say this is more than a wish and that something is already in the works. It's all about finding the right price.
Think about the potential for B6 expanding into TATL routes with the A321NEO and being right next to the International terminal. Places like LGW, MAN, DUB, LIS, PDL, VLL would all be reachable from BOS. Maybe even CDG/BRU/AMS/DUS.

The second part of your post is laughable, because for one thing B6 does not have an airplane capable of Europe, and even if they did, why would they fly to Europe out of BOS instead of JFK? Maybe the A321NEO is that bird, but I think transatlantic is a pipe dream at the moment

As for talking to UA, this is my take on this. Massport and B6 both want UA to move. From what I have heard, UA does not want to move, and if they are forced to move they will sue Massport because they have poured money into their facilities in Terminal C. B6 and Massport have probably tried to offer UA some incentive to move behind the scenes. But the question is, where do you move UA to? Where UA is at right now seems to be the only place with sufficient gate space for the combined UA/CO operation. The only way Terminal A would work is if DL drops the Shuttle, which I don't see happening even with the down sizing. Terminal B is the only other option. US and AA have both poured tons of money into their respective facilities, and are not going to be keen on giving up gate space to a competitor (Especially AA). A quick history lesson on Terminal B is that it was once owned by the South Terminal Corporation and not Massport, which means that in the old days Massport would have had no influence whatsoever on any B carriers nor could they force them to do anything. Now a days, you could play the utilization card (US and AA are both severly underutilizing their terminals) to get some gates for UA/CO. Would it be enough? With what UA/CO needs, probably not. The one attractive thing for US though is the Star Alliance angle, as it would allow all the Star carriers to be brought under one roof (Save for LH, but thats a different situation). But even with that, it would seem that there are still not enough gates for both UA/CO and US in B. The only solution that I thing would give everyone what they want in terms of gate space is to move B6 to B and US and AC to C. B6 would have more gates in B then they already have, you have C as the Star Alliance terminal. But I doubt B6 and US would go for this, but to me, it may be the only option. Massport has a mess right now.
 
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:25 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 28):
The only solution that I thing would give everyone what they want in terms of gate space is to move B6 to B and US and AC to C. B6 would have more gates in B then they already have, you have C as the Star Alliance terminal. But I doubt B6 and US would go for this, but to me, it may be the only option. Massport has a mess right now.

First: B6 just spent heaps of money redoing their ticket counter. Those pretty new "Corian-like" ticket counters were not paid for by Massport. Nor was that same pretty setup at gate C11. The B6 inflight lounge will also be undergoing a substantial expansion starting very soon. B6 is sinking a lot of money into C. Massport would have to buy out B6 with heaps of money and incentives to pry them from Terminal C.

Second: (and this is all mostly airport rumors, so take it for what its worth) Allegedly, UA employees were told earlier this year that they would be ending up in B. This coming from a UA employee in BOS. There were rumblings around the same time (which have since died down) that Massport would be building a connector between the two buildings of Terminal B, connecting the Eagle gates with the Shuttle gates. Supposedly UA would be taking the former Eagle gates as well as some of the shuttle gates, and US would be shifting some of their ops to the mainline concourse. Given their pullback in BOS, theres plenty of gate space there. The former HP flights still depart from the Shuttle gates, so they could easily be shifted to the mainline concourse, along with F9 which frees up 2 gates for a total of 7 when you add in the Eagle gates. UA Express could share B9A with US Express as needed. I'm not totally familiar with AA's or US's gate utilization, but it wouldn't surprise me if they could squeeze one more gate from either carrier.

It's not a matter of *if* UA moves, so much as who is going to pay for it. A CO employee said they were told by management that they would be co-locating in 2 years. At this point, I think it's a certainty that UA will be leaving C, but I think they're just determined not to make it easy on anyone else.
 
apodino
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 29):
First: B6 just spent heaps of money redoing their ticket counter. Those pretty new "Corian-like" ticket counters were not paid for by Massport. Nor was that same pretty setup at gate C11. The B6 inflight lounge will also be undergoing a substantial expansion starting very soon. B6 is sinking a lot of money into C. Massport would have to buy out B6 with heaps of money and incentives to pry them from Terminal C.

Second: (and this is all mostly airport rumors, so take it for what its worth) Allegedly, UA employees were told earlier this year that they would be ending up in B. This coming from a UA employee in BOS. There were rumblings around the same time (which have since died down) that Massport would be building a connector between the two buildings of Terminal B, connecting the Eagle gates with the Shuttle gates. Supposedly UA would be taking the former Eagle gates as well as some of the shuttle gates, and US would be shifting some of their ops to the mainline concourse. Given their pullback in BOS, theres plenty of gate space there. The former HP flights still depart from the Shuttle gates, so they could easily be shifted to the mainline concourse, along with F9 which frees up 2 gates for a total of 7 when you add in the Eagle gates. UA Express could share B9A with US Express as needed. I'm not totally familiar with AA's or US's gate utilization, but it wouldn't surprise me if they could squeeze one more gate from either carrier.

It's not a matter of *if* UA moves, so much as who is going to pay for it. A CO employee said they were told by management that they would be co-locating in 2 years. At this point, I think it's a certainty that UA will be leaving C, but I think they're just determined not to make it easy on anyone else.

This is the problem I have had for years is that when you allow airlines to pour money into their own facilities, rather than go CUTE, it makes it that much more difficult to rearrange things as situations warrant it, which is not only true here, but in other places as well (ATL being noteable).

That being said, what you have illustrated would seem to be the best option for B6 and Massport, but at the same time it will make it much more difficult for UA/CO to offer a good product in BOS. For one thing, food options on the Shuttle gates are very limited. I am not sure about the Eagle gates as I haven't used them since the days of HP and the DL shuttle being there. Secondly, if you give UA/CO the Eagle gates and the Shuttle gates, where does the check in counter go? Do you use the current shuttle counter, or do you use the Eagle Counter which are on opposite sides of the parking garage? Thirdly, it is well documented that Terminal B's curbside is a bottleneck, which is not a good thing with premium passengers. Forthly, what about a RCC? I don't know of any space in those two parts of B where you could accomodate an RCC, unless a new one was built, or that the USAirways club grants access to RCC members, though the USAirways club in B is over by the the mainline gates, out of the way.

Personally, while the B option works best for most of the people involved (Save UA), it is going to take some work over there to get it done. And I think B6 needs to foot the bill for this, because they are the only ones benefiting from this at all.
 
zrs70
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:18 pm

I have the only viable solution:

Bring TWA, Eastern, Piedmont, and others back.

Rebuild the old Terminal A, and put Eastern there. Perhaps CO as well.

Keep US in their current spot in B.

Put Northwest Orient where Eagle is in B.

Cut AA to three gates and give three to Piedmont.

UA/DL/TW go into C.

People Express can go out of D.

Pan Am, Air Florida, and New York Air can join the International carriers in E.

Western, Midwest Express, Braniff, Presidential, Republic, and others can all squeeze in to B or C!

[Edited 2011-09-23 12:19:38]
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:21 pm

Hey if its working for them, why not? There is not a real hub at BOS to compete with and they seem to be well accepted. Keep going with whats working
 
airbazar
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:56 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 28):
The second part of your post is laughable, because for one thing B6 does not have an airplane capable of Europe, and even if they did, why would they fly to Europe out of BOS instead of JFK?

It's no more laughable than the idea of AA ordering 200 Airbus   Did you miss the comment about the A321NEOs? BOS makes all those routes feasible with a NEO while JFK is just outside the range of the NEO, that's why. PDL is a no brainer as it is in my opinion, I keep wondering what's taking B6 so long to start BOS-PDL with an A320. SATA's service on this route is a joke for the fares they charge.

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 29):
First: B6 just spent heaps of money redoing their ticket counter. Those pretty new "Corian-like" ticket counters were not paid for by Massport. Nor was that same pretty setup at gate C11. The B6 inflight lounge will also be undergoing a substantial expansion starting very soon. B6 is sinking a lot of money into C. Massport would have to buy out B6 with heaps of money and incentives to pry them from Terminal C.

This is not even worth discussing. B6 is not leaving C. Not only because of what they invested but because it's right next to the CBP facilities in terminal E and I expect B6 to increase their International flying in the coming years, especially to the Caribean.

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 29):
It's not a matter of *if* UA moves,

I agree entirely. I'm not even sure what exactly it is that they have to lose by moving. They're current space is cramped and it seriously lacks amenities. Granted, after C's renovations are complete it will probably be a nicer place but currently C is the worse terminal at BOS.

[Edited 2011-09-23 13:56:53]
 
HVNandrew
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:14 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 24):
Maybe DL can move back in to C and B6 can have all of A?

Would never happen. DL built A and the Satellite themselves. They still occupy all of the Satellite and roughly half of A. I don't think they could condense their operation into B6's gates in Boston. They've cut a lot, but there's still the Shuttle operation, flights into the hubs in huge numbers, up to five TATL flights in the summer, plus the remaining P2P routes on both mainline and Connection. It's still a pretty healthy operation, albeit smaller than in the past.
 
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:24 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 12):
I can't imagine that many people driving from NH to BOS to fly B6 to Florida unless all of the cheap fares from MHT are sold.

Except that they consistently and regularly do it for WN. Improvements in the Boston highways and at BOS have led to the fares there being a good deal lower than those at MHT. Which is a shame, because MHT is a great airport, very convenient, and could draw from the entire northwest Boston metro area as well as the upper valley in NH/VT.
If B6 was to start flying out of MHT, I bet fares would come down a lot. If they could do it for the same price or cheaper, say, on MHT-FLL, then MHT stands a chance. Otherwise, though, people are just going to go to BOS.
 
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STT757
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:07 pm

More coverage from the Boston Globe:

Sounds like it's Massport who brought up ORH, as a quid pro quo, as repayment for their efforts in helping B6 acquire all of Terminal C's gates.

Quote:
“I think Massport has put Worcester on our radar screen,’’ said Barger, adding that he also discussed the idea yesterday with Massachusetts Secretary of Transportation Richard Davey.

B6 is part of the negotiations to move UA from Terminal C to Terminal A

Quote:
JetBlue is also trying to negotiate a deal to get control of gates used by United Airlines. That would require moving the United gates to Terminal A, which hosts Delta Airlines.
http://www.boston.com/business/artic...ay_expand_to_providence_worcester/
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apodino
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:16 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 36):

B6 is part of the negotiations to move UA from Terminal C to Terminal A

Quote:
JetBlue is also trying to negotiate a deal to get control of gates used by United Airlines. That would require moving the United gates to Terminal A, which hosts Delta Airlines.
http://www.boston.com/business/artic...ster/

I am sorry, there just isn't enough gate space in A for the combined UA/CO unless DL gives up gates, which there is no way they are going to do, especially if UA keeps the 757s around for the forseable future.

Even if DL were to drop the shuttle, which was mentioned in another thread, UA/CO is going to end up with at most 8 gates in A, and they need more then that, especially with the number of RON's both airlines have there.

The article does mention though that airlines are going to be upset if moves are forced to happen just to accomodate a rival's growth. It didn't specify any carriers, but you can be sure that one is UA themselves, and I am guessing DL won't be happy about this either, especially them building terminal A is the only reason B6 even got access to C in the first place.
 
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STT757
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:28 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 37):
I am sorry, there just isn't enough gate space in A for the combined UA/CO unless DL gives up gates, which there is no way they are going to do, especially if UA keeps the 757s around for the forseable future

Massport as part of the settlement they reached with DL, over DL's default during bankruptcy on their debt obligations vis a vis Terminal A, has the ability to take back an additional three gates from DL.
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apodino
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:47 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):

Massport as part of the settlement they reached with DL, over DL's default during bankruptcy on their debt obligations vis a vis Terminal A, has the ability to take back an additional three gates from DL.

Even so, that is still not going to going to give UA/CO enough gates for their operation. I don't think DL would necessarily mind giving up three gates, but giving up three gates for the sole benefit of B6, I sure as hell would have a problem with that if I am DL.
 
FutureUScapt
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:16 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 37):

Even if DL were to drop the shuttle, which was mentioned in another thread, UA/CO is going to end up with at most 8 gates in A, and they need more then that, especially with the number of RON's both airlines have there.

But surely 8 gates would be sufficient for daytime operations, right? I'm not familiar with the availability of hardstand locations at BOS, but nowadays it is common for airlines to RON airplanes at hardstands especially if they RON substantially more aircraft than what would be on the ground at any point during the day.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 22):
Given WN's pending pull-out from all PHL-New England non-stop routes next year; I wonder if one of B6's additional BOS routes will be to PHL?

Tough to say, but it is definitely one of the top business destinations that they don't currently serve. Then again, there are plenty of other notable exclusions such as ATL and DFW.
 
tu154
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:38 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 37):
am sorry, there just isn't enough gate space in A for the combined UA/CO unless DL gives up gates, which there is no way they are going to do, especially if UA keeps the 757s around for the forseable future.

Keep in mind that BOS is an alternate for many UA flight from Europe. Also B767's were used in the past on daily LAX, DEN, SFO and ORD flights. As per our domicile manager, IF UA were to move from terminal C, it would have to be to a terminal that could handle the B777 or B767.

Also according to domicile and station manager. BOS will continue to grow for UA so 8 gates would not be enough for the combined UA/CO.

What we are hearing in BOS is that terminal A will not support the combined operation, or the a/c used. i.e. B757/767.
(Meaning main terminal A where CO is now.) We are hearing we will eventually move to B provided it is paid for by Massport or B6.....including the UA baggage system that was recently installed. Construction on the former American eagle terminal should start next year and connect to the US side of B. Hence UA will not move to the newly constructed terminal B for at least two years. CO will relocate soon.....perhaps as soon as year end once American eagle has vacated those gates.

Again....just what I've been hearing around the rumor mill..........
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COflyerBOS
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:16 am

Please start service to HOU.

I fly between IAH and BOS 20 or so times a year. I was very loyal to CO but am not loving the airline that has "emerged" for the merger of equals.

I'd fly B6 every time if they offered non-stop service to Hobby but there is no way in Hades I am connecting at JFK.
 
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:24 am

Quoting COflyerBOS (Reply 42):
Please start service to HOU.

I fly between IAH and BOS 20 or so times a year. I was very loyal to CO but am not loving the airline that has "emerged" for the merger of equals.

I'd fly B6 every time if they offered non-stop service to Hobby but there is no way in Hades I am connecting at JFK.

I am actually a bit surprised that WN hasn't started HOU service considering that HOU is one of the so called "megacities" for WN. I am not sure how much local O and D there is between BOS and Houston though.

Quoting tu154 (Reply 41):

Keep in mind that BOS is an alternate for many UA flight from Europe. Also B767's were used in the past on daily LAX, DEN, SFO and ORD flights. As per our domicile manager, IF UA were to move from terminal C, it would have to be to a terminal that could handle the B777 or B767.

Also according to domicile and station manager. BOS will continue to grow for UA so 8 gates would not be enough for the combined UA/CO.

What we are hearing in BOS is that terminal A will not support the combined operation, or the a/c used. i.e. B757/767.
(Meaning main terminal A where CO is now.) We are hearing we will eventually move to B provided it is paid for by Massport or B6.....including the UA baggage system that was recently installed. Construction on the former American eagle terminal should start next year and connect to the US side of B. Hence UA will not move to the newly constructed terminal B for at least two years. CO will relocate soon.....perhaps as soon as year end once American eagle has vacated those gates.

Again....just what I've been hearing around the rumor mill..........

  
The one thing to note though is that if there is an international diversion coming into the US, they would be more likely to be handled at E then any other terminal because of the FIS. Everything else you state makes perfect sense though. The Shuttle gates I believe can handle widebodies, or at least 757s. I am thinking that if this construction that is rumored happens, it will be with growth in mind, it will include a food court and an RCC, and it may impact the garage slightly (Not likely though). The question is, which counter, the Shuttle, or the Eagle one? I think the Shuttle is more sufficient for a UA operation then the Eagle one, but the baggage claim would have to be redone on that side too. If its on the eagle side, Virgin America uses the baggage claim at that end of the terminal interestingly enough. But I still think they need more baggage claim space either way.
 
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:37 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 33):
Did you miss the comment about the A321NEOs? BOS makes all those routes feasible with a NEO while JFK is just outside the range of the NEO, that's why. PDL is a no brainer as it is in my opinion, I keep wondering what's taking B6 so long to start BOS-PDL with an A320. SATA's service on this route is a joke for the fares they charge.

I thought the A321NEO had less range than the A320NEO, which still would not be able to go TATL due to the winds. But then again US is pushing for the A321NEO to be a good 757 replacement so maybe that is the plane to do it.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 19):
Places like LGW, MAN, DUB, LIS, PDL, VLL would all be reachable from BOS. Maybe even CDG/BRU/AMS/DUS.

What did you mean instead of VLL? MAD? PDL would be cool, but is there room for two carriers? I wouldn't think so, but S4 did have both BOS and PVD service so it might be doable. I saw an ad for BOS-FNC for $898 on the T today and that seemed a little high.
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:53 pm

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 35):
Except that they consistently and regularly do it for WN. Improvements in the Boston highways and at BOS have led to the fares there being a good deal lower than those at MHT.

That's my point. Lower fares make passengers go out of their way. Not the 'hip' factor. At least not in NE  
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 44):
I thought the A321NEO had less range than the A320NEO, which still would not be able to go TATL due to the winds. But then again US is pushing for the A321NEO to be a good 757 replacement so maybe that is the plane to do it.

Yes, the 320 has longer range but it's also smaller which gives it a bad CASM for TATL ops. Both should have the range to fly from BOS to the Western fringes of Europe but the A321 has better economics because it has more seats.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 44):
What did you mean instead of VLL? MAD? PDL would be cool, but is there room for two carriers? I wouldn't think so, but S4 did have both BOS and PVD service so it might be doable. I saw an ad for BOS-FNC for $898 on the T today and that seemed a little high.

I think there is room for both on the route, especially during peak periods. Also the presence of a LCC on the route with regular flights should in theory grow this market even more. PDL also fits the VFR market segment that B6 has become so good at serving in the Caribbean. It makes almost too much sense, which is why I'm surprised they haven't started this route.
I suggested VLL simply because it's 100nm less than MAD and it has become a "LCC airport" for MAD. But I see now that VLL is even higher than MAD so the altitude more than offsets the distance. So forget about it  
 
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:43 pm

Quoting tu154 (Reply 41):
Keep in mind that BOS is an alternate for many UA flight from Europe.

Neither Terminal A nor Terminal C at BOS have FIS facilities, so whether or not it's an "alternate" for Europe flights is irrelevant.
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:00 pm

" BOS will continue to grow for UA so 8 gates would not be enough for the combined UA/CO."

In what way? Neither UA or CO have grown anything in BOS in years and they are not going to grow combined.

They will have service to their hubs and likely have LESS service combined than the 2 separate carriers have now.

UA/CO will go to A with a likely option to use one of the DL 757/767 gates if the need arises.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:09 am

Ordinarily, I'd chime in with some MHT-focused comment, but not this time. I have no idea whether B6 will come to either airport, or MHT for that matter. But I do applaud the carrier for being one of very few that are growing, adding flights, and advertising (gasp!).

In this economy, I will cheer any airline that invests in itself and grows our regional market...however they divvy up the pie.
 
apodino
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RE: JetBlue Plans More BOS Flights, ORH, PVD Service

Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:43 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 47):
" BOS will continue to grow for UA so 8 gates would not be enough for the combined UA/CO."

In what way? Neither UA or CO have grown anything in BOS in years and they are not going to grow combined.

They will have service to their hubs and likely have LESS service combined than the 2 separate carriers have now.

UA/CO will go to A with a likely option to use one of the DL 757/767 gates if the need arises.

While I agree that their growth is likely to be stangnant in BOS, but less service is a bit of a stretch. Lets take a look at it Hub by Hub

EWR - Given the current nature of the operation, not likely to be cut except for maybe 1 or 2 R/Ts
IAD - May lose a R/T with the EWR hub, but still not much
ORD - This is their bread and butter route, nothing will happen here at all, may even see an increase in Freq.
CLE - They are only at 3X on this route, but who knows with CLE, but I think this may lose out
SFO - Only competition on the route is currently from VX I believe. Not likely to see any significant changes
IAH - This depends on what O and D numbers are like between BOS and Houston. I suspect it will stay about the same.
DEN - I believe the only competition on the route right now is actually B6 of all carriers. Since WN is going to be gate constrained and focusing BOS elsewhere, and F9 seems to only be a MKE carrier out of BOS, UA is still strong on this route, and will likely keep it the same.
LAX - Strangely enough, this route has the most competition of any PM UA/CO route, with AA, VX, B6 on the route (Not sure if DL still flies it or not) UA I believe is down to 2X out of BOS, and they are not going to command high yields or provide many connecting opportunities that it can't elsewhere. But US has a strong FF base in BOS, and this is what likely provides much of the UA feed on the BOS end. I suspect it will stay the same, though a downgrade to a 320 would not surprise me.

So you are talking about maybe 2 or 3 frequencies shed in the near term. I believe we determined earlier that the combined operation would need 10 gates. They aren't going to get access in A to 10 gates. But with the terminal B scenario on the table, that would give them the 10 gates, without causing headaches for anyone else in BOS.

One thing I do think should happen is for both F9 and NK to move to A after UA/CO sets up shop in B assuming that's where they go.

Back to B6, someone suggested MHT for them. I do not believe MHT has an available gate at the moment (I could be wrong) or available counter space. Both of these would have to be addressed prior to B6 starting MHT service. PVD has both though, so I think PVD will come before MHT, though MHT I think will happen down the road.