richiemo
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UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:53 am

Saw a PM United 767-300 parked at EWR, Term C tonight around 5:15. Couldn't make it to her gate to see where she was headed. And I couldn't find her on Flightstats.com. Anybody have any idea. Can't wait to see more 763s in new livery at EWR.
 
Jamake1
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:55 am

I would imagine she is working the EWR-ZRH flight on behalf of CO.
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
pecoua
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:01 am

That is flight 978 EWR-ZRH...UA took over that root quite recently.
 
codc10
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:12 am

More to come. UA is due to take over the EWR-BRU route effective 9/29 with a 777.
 
T5towbar
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:36 am

That's Flight 978 EWR-ZRH.
Usually boards from Gate 102 daily.
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richiemo
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:13 am

Excellent news that UA is starting to take over more EWR flights. Really can't wait for the A320s to start showing up.
 
Jackbr
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:36 am

Is the 763 ferrying into EWR or operating scheduled domestic flights to position the aircraft for the flight?

Which FA base is operating the flight?
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:50 am

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 6):
Is the 763 ferrying into EWR or operating scheduled domestic flights to position the aircraft for the flight?

From the schedule, it looks like the EWR operation turns to and from IAD at ZRH so it does a 5 hour turn at EWR each day so no ferrying or domestic flight is needed.
No idea how the crew works.
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codc10
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:58 am

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 6):
Which FA base is operating the flight?

I believe these are IAD flight and cabin crews operating IAD-BRU-EWR-BRU-IAD as a 6 day trip.
 
deltairlines
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:58 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 7):
From the schedule, it looks like the EWR operation turns to and from IAD at ZRH so it does a 5 hour turn at EWR each day so no ferrying or domestic flight is needed.
No idea how the crew works.

Would not surprise me if it's a six-day scissor trip - likely Day 1 IAD-ZRH, Day 2 rest, Day 3 ZRH-EWR, Day 4 EWR-ZRH, Day 5 rest, Day 6 ZRH-IAD.

Likely done with Washington crews up front and in back.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:21 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 9):
Would not surprise me if it's a six-day scissor trip - likely Day 1 IAD-ZRH, Day 2 rest, Day 3 ZRH-EWR, Day 4 EWR-ZRH, Day 5 rest, Day 6 ZRH-IAD.

Likely done with Washington crews up front and in back.

29 hours in EWR sounds like fun.
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washingtonian
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:26 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 10):
29 hours in EWR sounds like fun.

Haha, I was thinking the same thing. Wonder if they get to stay in Manhattan or stuck at an EWR hotel...
 
N62NA
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:29 am

It just seems a bit odd to me that UA announced these 2 flights (EWR-ZRH and EWR-BRU) months ago and we haven't heard anything else since then regarding additional routes out of EWR that will be operated by UA.

What was the big rush to convert these 2 routes from CO to UA?
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:35 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 12):
What was the big rush to convert these 2 routes from CO to UA?

Premium traffic in F class, which CO doesn't offer.
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washingtonian
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:56 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 12):
It just seems a bit odd to me that UA announced these 2 flights (EWR-ZRH and EWR-BRU) months ago and we haven't heard anything else since then regarding additional routes out of EWR that will be operated by UA.

I'm sure there will be a ton by next summer, especially as conversions of the 2-class 763s will be well underway by then...
 
Jamake1
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:35 am

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 11):
Wonder if they get to stay in Manhattan or stuck at an EWR hotel...

I am not at liberty to discuss where UA crews stay on a public forum, however it is not EWR and it is not Manhattan.
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
yamatthey
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:40 am

You may have a beer at the Westin Hotel Jersey City and you will see a lot of crew uniforms around, like Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines and many more...
 
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STT757
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:35 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 12):
It just seems a bit odd to me that UA announced these 2 flights (EWR-ZRH and EWR-BRU) months ago and we haven't heard anything else since then regarding additional routes out of EWR that will be operated by UA.

Well there's also all those UAX ERJ-170s and CR-7s flying COEX regional flights.

[/quote]What was the big rush to convert these 2 routes from CO to UA?
[/quote]

The need for premium seats, and lack of PMCO widebody equipment.

Quoting yamatthey (Reply 16):
You may have a beer at the Westin Hotel Jersey City and you will see a lot of crew uniforms around, like Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines and many more...

Great hotel, brand new and real close to the PATH train. Directly across from Lower Manhattan.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
N62NA
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:22 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 13):
Quoting N62NA (Reply 12):
What was the big rush to convert these 2 routes from CO to UA?

Premium traffic in F class, which CO doesn't offer.

OK... but just these two routes? These two routes have so much more premium traffic in F class than other routes that it required current UA (not current CO) actually adding international flights at EWR?
 
gigneil
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:27 pm

Yes.

filler.

NS
 
N62NA
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:02 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 19):
Yes.

Any data to back that up?

I'm still having an issue with the idea that "only" these 2 cities require F immediately. Since CO dominates EWR, there are plenty of other "high profile" international routes with no F.... NRT comes to mind, so using NRT as an example, why no immediate move to put a UA 777/744 on that route to offer F service?
 
tommy767
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:34 pm

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 15):

Extended layovers for UA crew is at a hotel in Morristown, NJ (formally manhattan.) For a 29 hour rest, I have no idea where they would go. I've biked past the Westin in Jersey City a bunch of times and it's definitely underrated.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
N62NA
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:01 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 21):
Extended layovers for UA crew is at a hotel in Morristown, NJ (formally manhattan.) For a 29 hour rest, I have no idea where they would go.

I believe BA stays in Morristown as well. It's quite a ways out - about 25 miles. I grew up just outside of Morristown and while it's a nice mid-sized town, there really isn't much to do there - especially during the gloomy months of November through March.
 
tommy767
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:10 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 22):
I believe BA stays in Morristown as well. It's quite a ways out - about 25 miles. I grew up just outside of Morristown and while it's a nice mid-sized town, there really isn't much to do there - especially during the gloomy months of November through March.

I flew ORD-EWR in F in December 2009 and the f/a who told me about the layover in Morristown, NJ. She said she absolutely loved it as it was so "cute" with tons of shopping and great restaurants. I too grew up in that area and always thought Motown was a slightly depressed central NJ town. HOWEVER: Apparently you haven't been back to Mo-town in recent years at night where it literally has become a 2nd Hoboken, NJ -- a ton of drunk girls at bars with lines out the door and some with covers. Actually a pretty good time for the most part  
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
blueflyer
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:22 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 18):
These two routes have so much more premium traffic in F class than other routes that it required current UA (not current CO) actually adding international flights at EWR?

Can't speak for ZRH, but as far as BRU is concerned, it's not just F but C as well. For the past couple of years, CO has been using a 764 on EWR-BRU and it routinely goes out full upfront (trust me, I've been unable to find a seat at the last minute a few times). Over the summer, demand to BRU remains strong but it tampers down on another market that is usually serviced by a 777 (can't remember which one) so CO swaps both aircraft.

If CO had one spare 777 year-long, it would go to BRU all year.

On the other hand, PMUA has a few 777s that aren't used to their full capacity, but the one they already use on IAD-BRU does well in all three cabins.

Put all this together and it's a no-brainer, really. UA gets better utilization out of a 777 and they sell more premium seats on EWR-BRU, and all they have to do is IAD-BRU-EWR-BRU-IAD and put their crew in a hotel in New Jersey.

The question now is, how long will it take for PMCO to fly ORD-BRU on behalf of UA with a 764 now that AA is out.
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fanofjets
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:26 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 22):
... it's a nice mid-sized town, there really isn't much to do there - especially during the gloomy months of November through March

There's lots to do in and around Morristown. Morristown is host to the world-class Mayo Arts PAC - plenty of top-name entertainment in music, comedy, dance.... Morristown also has many excellent restaurants. When I was a teenager growing up there in the late 1970s, it was dead on a Friday or Saturday night - kinda scary on my way home from my first high school job. That's no longer the case; there are plenty of places to hang out in Morristown any time of the week and food from nearly every nation on Earth. There's lots of Colonial and Revolutionary War history in the town and its surroundings. In the nicer months, there are quite a few parks and nature trails. For us A.netters, however, Morristown Municipal Airport (MMH) is a bust, as security is tight, leaving little activity to photograph (though I did manage to sneak in a few ramp shots surreptitiously).
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:32 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 24):
The question now is, how long will it take for PMCO to fly ORD-BRU on behalf of UA with a 764 now that AA is out.

The 764 would lose F and Y+ classes, but offer 9 more C seats (only 3 total extra premium seats) and 49 extra in Y.
It probably won't happen anytime soon as since the other BRU flights are operated with PMUA equipment, there wouldn't be a way to rotate the 764 unless a domestic segment like EWR-ORD-EWR were added and that's unlikely.
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tommy767
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:34 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 26):

Why would a widebody on EWR-ORD-EWR be unlikely? I feel that's in order once SOC is achieved.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:05 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 27):
Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 26):

Why would a widebody on EWR-ORD-EWR be unlikely? I feel that's in order once SOC is achieved.

I mentioned anytime soon. Once things are more integrated it could happen. Could IAH-BRU be a potential route - could swap out in BRU and with more PMUA 763s going international starting next year who knows?
Right now the EWR-BRU is a IAH 1-stop, indicating there must be through traffic.
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tommy767
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:15 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 28):

I mentioned anytime soon. Once things are more integrated it could happen. Could IAH-BRU be a potential route - could swap out in BRU and with more PMUA 763s going international starting next year who knows?

With ORD, IAD, and EWR flying BRU, I don't think IAH-BRU is much of a priority. Plenty of connections.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
474218
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:18 am

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 15):
am not at liberty to discuss where UA crews stay on a public forum, however it is not EWR and it is not Manhattan.

So I take it the crews change in to civilian clothes and and take separate taxis to the hotel?

Many times I have ridden on the hotel shuttles with the crews. After all they are civilian airline employees not secret agents!
 
maxamuus
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:32 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 30):

So I take it the crews change in to civilian clothes and and take separate taxis to the hotel?

Many times I have ridden on the hotel shuttles with the crews. After all they are civilian airline employees not secret agents!

I dont think Jamake1 was implying its a national secret where the flight crews stay. However if Jamake1 is a CO/UA employee with internal information the company has a VERY strict policy about posting such information online. I believe that is why he could say its wasnt EWR or NYC but wasnt specific.
 
blueflyer
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:19 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 26):
The 764 would lose F and Y+ classes, but offer 9 more C seats (only 3 total extra premium seats) and 49 extra in Y.

Well, if you think it's a meager addition upfront, let's throw in another 777 then. I'm not saying that in jest. If we assume that AA sells only about half its seats (profitably), that's still almost 1,900 seats weekly between AA and UA now. A daily 777 is 1,700 seats per week each way.

I suspect, however, that AA was having a tough time filling the front, otherwise the flight would have continued perhaps.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 28):
Could IAH-BRU be a potential route - could swap out in BRU and with more PMUA 763s going international starting next year who knows?

Not an expert, but IAH-BRU might be at the limit of what the 763 can do when the weather doesn't cooperate. As to whether the route would be viable or not, it's possible.

If ORD-BRU isn't upgauged, part of the AA traffic can be channeled through IAH. Add in oil traffic transiting BRU on its way to Africa with SN (not as big as AF, but there's some) and Central/South America traffic that really isn't well served out of BRU currently, and it might work.
Democracy 2016: 3 million California votes < 100,000 Midwest votes.
 
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STT757
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:17 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 27):
Why would a widebody on EWR-ORD-EWR be unlikely?

Higher utilization rates would be one reason, also the domestic 767s are being converted to International aircraft. I think rotating widebodies between EWR and both LAX and SFO are more likely, 1-2 daily each.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 29):
I don't think IAH-BRU is much of a priority. Plenty of connections.

I think IAH-BRU would be a lucrative route, it would offer the best connections to Africa which is a huge market from Houston (especially West Africe's oil fields).

http://www.brusselsairlines.com/com/...k-for/destinations/african-corner/
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PanAm747LHR
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:32 am

We can end all of the speculation about where the crews stay. They stay at their homes. UA has a NYC base that covers all 3 airports. Until recently they mostly did PS trips out of JFK and a few others, but now they are covering the ZRH and soon to be BRU flying. I don't fly for UA, but I run into them quite often at JFK and their NYC base is very excited about these new international trips.

-Nick
 
Jamake1
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:52 am

Quoting PanAm747LHR (Reply 34):
We can end all of the speculation about where the crews stay. They stay at their homes. UA has a NYC base that covers all 3 airports. Until recently they mostly did PS trips out of JFK and a few others, but now they are covering the ZRH and soon to be BRU flying. I don't fly for UA, but I run into them quite often at JFK and their NYC base is very excited about these new international trips.

As somebody has already posted, the ZRH trip is not flown with a JFK crew. It is flown with a DCA-based crew. The trip pairing goes like this:

IAD-ZRH

layover

ZRH-EWR

layover

EWR-ZRH

layover

ZRH-IAD
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
Jamake1
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:55 am

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 31):

I dont think Jamake1 was implying its a national secret where the flight crews stay. However if Jamake1 is a CO/UA employee with internal information the company has a VERY strict policy about posting such information online. I believe that is why he could say its wasnt EWR or NYC but wasnt specific.

  
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
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drerx7
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:09 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 29):
With ORD, IAD, and EWR flying BRU, I don't think IAH-BRU is much of a priority. Plenty of connections.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 33):
I think IAH-BRU would be a lucrative route, it would offer the best connections to Africa which is a huge market from Houston (especially West Africe's oil fields).

Exactly...I am a fan of your post TOMMY767 and I've come to see you are a PMUA'er - which is nice; but, judging by your post over the past months I can see you will have to be brought into the CO and Houston world as you often underestimate what type of traffic and business is going on down in our corner of the world. 
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N62NA
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:27 pm

Quoting fanofjets (Reply 25):
For us A.netters, however, Morristown Municipal Airport (MMH) is a bust, as security is tight,

Slight correction: It's MMU.

I too grew up in that area and remember actually seeing a PeoplExpress 737-130 parked at MMU in the early days of PE's operations. Never did quite figure out why it was there - if it was an "open house" kind of thing, they didn't get the word out very well in the Daily Record.
 
kfitz
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:22 pm

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 37):
judging by your post over the past months I can see you will have to be brought into the CO and Houston world as you often underestimate what type of traffic and business is going on down in our corner of the world. 

I'm not sure it's so much as underestimating as simply being realistic. CO was a 2-class airline that had a relatively small route network compared to UA. Did it have premium traffic? Absolutely. But again, relatively speaking, UA had more, and the numbers simply speak for themselves. Global Services and intl. F speak for themselves. Having 3-cabin widebody service on every single intl. route offered speaks for itself. Being a founding member of Star speaks for itself. Having the highest regarded FF program in the industry speaks for itself. UA had key air rights in key regions (BermudaII, 5th freedom rights), launched the 777, and was at a time, the world's largest airline, taking over Pan Am's extensive Asian routes which were not only lucrative, but also serviced top tier premier business capitals of the world (HKG, SIN, NRT, PEK, BKK, etc.) CO had 2.5 domestic hubs and patted themselves on the back by flying to a bunch of 757s to Timbuktu routes im Europe - which is fine (granted you weren't on a flight that had to divert for fuel due to headwinds on the way back to EWR). And obviously, UA served the top tier markets in Asia via it's hub in NRT and is far more well known as a brand there than CO was. CO had a widebody shortage due to a poor order book in the mid 90s, no sort of flat bed product until 2008 (nearly 10 years after UA launched the fully flat F suite), and a few questionable policies like the lack of SWUs for what seemed like an eternity. CO is a great airline, with better service than UA offered (yes, that's a real quality) and far superior management-labor relations. Were they overrated? Yes. Do they serve a lot of premium traffic from the Oil industry in Houston? nobody would argue that - but UA also has hubs in SFO, ORD, LAX, and IAD - those O/D markets represent the country's most premier destinations and business capitals. Both are great airlines, but this idea that they were true "equals" in this merger (beyond market cap) is something I take issue with.





[Edited 2011-09-25 14:33:19]
 
N62NA
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:28 pm

Quoting kfitz (Reply 39):
Having the highest regarded FF program in the industry speaks for itself.

Source?
 
kfitz
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:37 pm

Do you believe OnePass was a superior program to MileagePlus? Redemption, award booking, qualifications, not to mention IRROPS performance and elite compensation and communication by the company were all inferior to what UA was offering. It should be no surprise MileagePlus® is the surviving program. Even while UA was questionable in many other areas during CH. 11 and immediately preceding the exit, MileagePlus could be argued to be one of the very positive aspects, one that contributed to UA retaining all of their premium traffic.
 
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:52 pm

I saw the UA 767 today at EWR when I came in from IAH. It must be due for a paint job soon because the aircraft was filthy, far more than PMUA would allow. But it wasva good chance to see a PMUA livery on a 767 right next to a CO livery (with UNITED brand name) on a 767. And while so many think UA took over CO-- it sure as hell doesn't look that way when looking at the airplanes. It felt like United really is gone. Sad for a UA lover like me but should make a CO lover feel better!
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
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drerx7
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:18 am

Quoting kfitz (Reply 39):
CO had 2.5 domestic hubs and patted themselves on the back by flying to a bunch of 757s to Timbuktu routes im Europe - which is fine (granted you weren't on a flight that had to divert for fuel due to headwinds on the way back to EWR).

Not quite fair. CO's Lat Am network was arguably more important or not just as important as their expansion from EWR. CO served more cities in Mexico than Aeromexico. Diversions for fuel were not as common as a.net lore would like for you to believe anyway - its actually a poor argument that I just have to SMH at.

Quoting kfitz (Reply 39):
CO had a widebody shortage due to a poor order book in the mid 90s,

Not so sure if the order book was poor. It allowed CO to develop a pretty profitable network considering its resources. At the same time - UA has a domestic aircraft shortage from their retirements and order book. Which is why you see expansion domestically with CO's 'poorly ordered' 737s and UA's residual widebodies.

Quoting kfitz (Reply 39):
Do they serve a lot of premium traffic from the Oil industry in Houston? nobody would argue that -

Actually they don't. This is in part due to the lack of widebody lift. CO built upon its strengths, send the birds with the range to Europe from EWR - because it makes money. Smart business move. The downside is that this left their homebase ripe for the picking. This is also why IAH has so many international carriers. Carriers that obviously got the notion about premium IAH traffic that many a.netters don't. Which is why IAH-BRU would be a phenomenal route - along with IAH-LOS and a few others. EK, QR, and SQ beat them to the dance that KL, AF, BA, and LH were at already.

Quoting kfitz (Reply 39):
but UA also has hubs in SFO, ORD, LAX, and IAD - those O/D markets represent the country's most premier destinations and business capitals.

Nobody is disputing that; but thanks for reminding us I guess.

Quoting kfitz (Reply 39):
Both are great airlines, but this idea that they were true "equals" in this merger (beyond market cap) is something I take issue with.

I appreciate your opinion - but you've really just used my comment as a vehicle to voice it as it doesn't really address what I was saying.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
codc10
Posts: 1800
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:19 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 42):
filthy, far more than PMUA would allow


 

What makes you think that?

Quoting kfitz (Reply 39):
but this idea that they were true "equals" in this merger (beyond market cap) is something I take issue with.

In the world of business, this is really the only thing that matters.
 
tommy767
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:15 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 33):
Higher utilization rates would be one reason, also the domestic 767s are being converted to International aircraft. I think rotating widebodies between EWR and both LAX and SFO are more likely, 1-2 daily each.

For an airline that currently flies widebodies on hub to hub routes such as IAD-ORD, DEN-ORD, IAH-SFO, SFO-DEN, LAX-DEN, I'd say a widebody on EWR-ORD-EWR is fair game once SOC is done. Keep in mind that there will need to be repositioning routes between the hubs and both EWR and ORD will end up flying many 767s to Europe.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 37):
Exactly...I am a fan of your post TOMMY767 and I've come to see you are a PMUA'er - which is nice; but, judging by your post over the past months I can see you will have to be brought into the CO and Houston world as you often underestimate what type of traffic and business is going on down in our corner of the world.

I'm glad you enjoy my bantering, but to be honest I feel that IAH doesn't get enough credit for the major fortress hub that it is. I feel CO has right sized IAH for years both domestically and to Mexico. You often hear how IAH-LAX needs to get a 777 again because all 12-13 daily flights are packed to gills and it's completely true. In addition to that, the E145s from IAH on 2-3 hour runs were not welcome, but it's also because before the merger CO really didn't have anything else to fly these routes with. And lastly CO really needs to push IAH-Africa, something they have slacked on about for quite some time. That is some serious money they are missing out on. With the 787s coming and the merger soon to be fully completed within the next year, I'd hope to see IAH step it up.

With regards to IAH-BRU, I'd like to look up to our friends up in DFW and compare how hot and cold the Texas-Europe market is. BRU is a destination from IAH that doesn't really need to be served since 3 other hubs already fly it within the network. There are some destinations such as AMS, LHR, CDG that have proven themselves and will be kept around.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 43):
Not quite fair. CO's Lat Am network was arguably more important or not just as important as their expansion from EWR. CO served more cities in Mexico than Aeromexico. Diversions for fuel were not as common as a.net lore would like for you to believe anyway - its actually a poor argument that I just have to SMH at.

I feel like IAH could have used those 757s for Latam/Southam more than some of the EWR-Europe routings.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 43):
Not so sure if the order book was poor. It allowed CO to develop a pretty profitable network considering its resources.

It wasn't poor, it was a bit shortsighted though. If CO would go back in time I feel they wouldn't have ordered as many 73G, 735, or 762 and instead have ordered more 752, 753, 764, 763, and 777
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
washingtonian
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:20 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 45):
And lastly CO really needs to push IAH-Africa

It seems to me that one of the biggest "problems" United will have is deciding which hubs to grow with international flights! Some dilemma!! Having to choose between New York City, Washington, D.C., Houston, Chicago (especially with a retreating American), San Francisco, Los Angeles....None of those are bad choices at all!

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 45):
BRU is a destination from IAH that doesn't really need to be served since 3 other hubs already fly it within the network. There are some destinations such as AMS, LHR, CDG that have proven themselves and will be kept around.

Haven't they wanted to start IAH-MAD for years? I remember those rumors when the new international terminal opened at IAH a few years ago.
 
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drerx7
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:33 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 45):
I'd say a widebody on EWR-ORD-EWR is fair game once SOC is done. Keep in mind that there will need to be repositioning routes between the hubs and both EWR and ORD will end up flying many 767s to Europe.

I agree, I think that this is an eventuality. I could definitely see a turn a day with alternating 777 and 767 for repositioning - as well as amongst the other hubs IAH-ORD, EWR-LAX/SFO etc. I could see IAH-DEN and IAH-LAX get widebodies for the hub-hub repo flights and the added capacity...its a LOT of demand for those routes, as you've noted on IAH-LAX.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 45):
BRU is a destination from IAH that doesn't really need to be served since 3 other hubs already fly it within the network.

This I disagree with. DFW doesn't have the premium demand, or VFR and definitely not the oil&gas demand that IAH has. If IAH-BRU opened I think that it will hurt AF the most and siphon a little from BA for the onward Africa connections. BRU is a Star hub and Brussels Airlines serves 21 destinations in Africa, and VFR and the front cabin traffic from IAH can be well served from a route like this.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 45):
I feel like IAH could have used those 757s for Latam/Southam more than some of the EWR-Europe routings.

Well...operationally yes, but Latam/Southam is not as high yielding as Europe. There are also fewer routes that could have supported the 757 from IAH vs. NYC to Europe. Now with the UA 757s that they plan on keeping I could see those find their way south of the border and have the 739 backfill domestically.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 45):
It wasn't poor, it was a bit shortsighted though. If CO would go back in time I feel they wouldn't have ordered as many 73G, 735, or 762 and instead have ordered more 752, 753, 764, 763, and 777

This I agree with.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:40 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 46):
It seems to me that one of the biggest "problems" United will have is deciding which hubs to grow with international flights! Some dilemma!! Having to choose between New York City, Washington, D.C., Houston, Chicago (especially with a retreating American), San Francisco, Los Angeles....None of those are bad choices at all!
EWR is maxed out as it's slot regulated. I'd expect IAD and EWR to trade off on some international routes. Perhaps IAD getting some flights to the British Isles and EWR getting some routes to Africa and maybe Moscow.

ORD will always be second to EWR and IAD to Europe. I'd expect some shifting as well -- perhaps ORD-MAN or DUB in an attempt to wipe AA off these routes.

SFO is the main hub to Asia, LAX will have a token few international routings. I'd expect more LAX-Central Am/Mexico though.

IAH needs some new life injected into it. Thank goodness they have committed to revamping terminal B, which is a sign they want to not only grow, but to IMPROVE Houston as a fortress hub in the coming years.

EDITED: Drex I feel that IAH could use that 757 lift from EWR during the winter months when Euro premium demand tends to slow down (just ask DL.) I'm with you, hopefully those PMUA 757s make it down to IAH (and EWR for that matter.)

[Edited 2011-09-26 07:44:37]
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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drerx7
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RE: UAL 763 At EWR Tonight. What's She Up To?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:45 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 46):
Haven't they wanted to start IAH-MAD for years? I remember those rumors when the new international terminal opened at IAH a few years ago.

Well, the transit Visa requirement was enough of a deterrent to push that back for lower hanging fruits.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 48):
IAH needs some new life injected into it. Thank goodness they have committed to revamping terminal B, which is a sign they want to not only grow, but to IMPROVE Houston as a fortress hub in the coming years.

Especially with the new Terminal B having widebody capabilities and another FIS.

I am hoping that IAH will see the 744 soon, it'll give the guys on the ramp at Terminal E some headaches though.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised

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