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All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:03 pm

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9PSTSPG0.htm


If United plans to have 50 787's, will ALL of them be 2 class. I know the first deliveries are going to be 2 class with On On a 2 class 787 and United Business being the most premium cabin outfitted with CO's new BF seat, then economy (with E+ which is NOT considered a class by itself) - is there talk of "some" of them being fitted with United First, then United Business and then economy?

Do we know if their new First seat will fit on a 787? I assume if they can on their 767's then logic would suggest yes. But there is often a "but"!

While it is obvious that UA is trying to be America's most premium carrier, at some point I would think UA would be putting 787's on routes where First is necessary..LHR, FRA, ASIAN cities, maybe to deep South America.

While I have searched for an answer to this, there seems to be no talk of a UA 787 with a real F cabin. AND...if they did indeed add F to the 787: what Business Class seat would be selected? The opinions on the 2 different C configuration's seem like it breaks 50/50 with some fliers liking the UA seat and some the new CO seat. Even though they are pretty close in many ways. I am tall with big feet so I lean toward the UA (backwards/forward) seats as they are longer and have a full length foot rest- but no storage!

I just wonder now if in a few years I will be flying to NRT on a UA 787 and having no F to buy or upgrade into!

Does anyone know anything?
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STT757
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:07 pm

No one knows, I'm not sure UA knows for sure yet. For now the first batch of 787-8s, the PMCO aircraft, will be two class. It's possible that future deliveries of either the PMUA 787-8s or the PMCO 787-9s will have three class, but that's a few years down the road and no decision needs to be made right now.

If I had to guess the 787-9s and A350-900s would be three class.
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UAL777UK
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:31 pm

Heck....from what I can see UA have not even announced which international destinations are going to get F period, let alone what config the 787 will be in. I am sure however that some will be three class , where they will go is anyones guess at the moment but I sure as hell exoect to see them at LHR at some stage.....please   
 
AADC10
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:44 pm

UA has not made any announcement about the configuration and I would suspect that they have not yet decided. However, they have committed to keeping 3 class service on premium routes. The one problem with the 787 is that is has narrow coach seats at 9 abreast so UA may want to use the 777, 767 and A350 on the premium routes due to their superior back cabin seating. Perhaps the 2 class 787s will become the new "ghettobirds."
 
dfambro
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:12 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 3):
The one problem with the 787 is that is has narrow coach seats at 9 abreast

I thought UA announced that they're going 8 abreast with the 787
 
ord
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:47 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 2):
Heck....from what I can see UA have not even announced which international destinations are going to get F period, let alone what config the 787 will be in.
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 3):
UA has not made any announcement about the configuration and I would suspect that they have not yet decided.

United back in August announced the 787 configuration: 36 BusinessFirst, 63 Economy Plus, 120 Economy.

http://www.united.com/press/detail/0,7056,69125,00.html
 
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kanban
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:57 am

The interior seating configurations and even seat styles will change continually throughout the plane's life based on market demand. The first unit will be different from the 25th and that will be different from #50.

Now if you limited the question to the first five, there might be an answer.... However who cares, If they don't have what you want, another carrier will.
 
kfitz
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:16 am

Since the 787s will be delivered (for all intents and purposes) to CO, there's no real need for an F cabin given that they are going to fly it on routes which wouldn't support F inventory anyhow.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:21 am

Quoting dfambro (Reply 4):
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 3):
The one problem with the 787 is that is has narrow coach seats at 9 abreast

I thought UA announced that they're going 8 abreast with the 787
Quoting ord (Reply 6):
United back in August announced the 787 configuration: 36 BusinessFirst, 63 Economy Plus, 120 Economy.

The Press Release leads one to believe the seating is 9 across. the 63 Y+ seats is a give away (7rows X9 = 63)
According the Seat Guru and Boeing's websites, the
CO 772 has 18.3" Y seats
CO 752 has 17.2" Y seats
CO 764 has 17.9" Y seats
Boeins shows the 787 has 17.2" in 9 across and 18.5" in 8 across.
So UA had the option of offering wider seats than the widest international aircraft they operate or matching the 752.

In any case I don't think the 787 could become a ghetto bird as it will have lie flats up front and the other amenities the 787 offers on lighting, air, etc. Most likely they will be used on longer, thinner routes or other international routes where the 772 and 744 are too large or 763/4 cannot do the range.
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474218
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:04 am

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
Does anyone know anything?

Does it really matter? Airliner interiors can be changed as often as a women changes her mind!.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:22 am

Quoting ord (Reply 6):
United back in August announced the 787 configuration: 36 BusinessFirst, 63 Economy Plus, 120 Economy.

wow... hope to see them in two routes to Brazil at least: IAH-GIG and EWR-GRU
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:35 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
wow... hope to see them in two routes to Brazil at least: IAH-GIG and EWR-GRU

My guess is you'll be waiting a while as it takes most of 2 units to fly one roundtrip. A TATL roundtrip uses just one unit with higher utilization.
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ytz
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:51 pm

It kinda sucks that airlines are choosing cramped 9-abreast for an aircraft with at least 12 hrs endurance (at Max payload).

I'm grateful that Air Canada is not one of those airlines that crams people in like sardines. This is why two-class airlines are better.
 
kfitz
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:14 pm

The CO 787s are 2-cabin aircraft...And what exactly makes a 2 cabin airline that has no F inherently better than a 3 cabin airline? Because those in J don't have their egos hurt that there are still people ahead of them in f?
 
codc10
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:23 pm

Quoting kfitz (Reply 7):
Since the 787s will be delivered (for all intents and purposes) to CO, there's no real need for an F cabin given that they are going to fly it on routes which wouldn't support F inventory anyhow.

SOC will have been achieved by the time the 787s are on property, so CO will officially have ceased to exist.
 
tpaewr
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:15 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 14):
SOC will have been achieved by the time the 787s are on property, so CO will officially have ceased to exist

Sorta, but it is the CO cert that will survive  

My understanding is that both codes (UA and CO) will be used till a sinlgePSS (also CO's) is reached in 2012

[Edited 2011-09-24 17:16:35]
 
Viscount724
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:17 am

Quoting YTZ (Reply 12):
It kinda sucks that airlines are choosing cramped 9-abreast for an aircraft with at least 12 hrs endurance (at Max payload).

If not mistaken ANA's 787s are 8-abreast, even those in higher-density domestic/regional configuration. At least the photos/videos of their first 787 delivery shows 2-4-2 in Y and it has the high-density configuration with only 12 J seats. The average Japanese is significantly smaller than the average American. 

I'm surprised a US carrier would go to 9-abreast on the 787 when none of the half-dozen 777 operators based in North America have moved to 10-abreast on 777s.

If UA is really going to 9-abreast on the 787 it would seem to offer a rather inconsistent product compared to their 9-abreast 777s. Boeing shows the interior cabin width of the 787 as 14 inches narrower than the 777.
 
klkla
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:21 am

Quoting kfitz (Reply 13):
Because those in J don't have their egos hurt that there are still people ahead of them in f?

Actually, yes! At least in my case. It used to drive me crazy when I used to fly UA and the first class was generally non-revs (employees) that ended up getting better service than the paying customers in business.

I have noticed that business class customers in general get treated better on two-class airlines than three-class airlines and as a frequent flyer I can honestly say that has played into my purchase decision in the past FWIW.
 
United1
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:47 am

Quoting tpaewr (Reply 15):
Sorta, but it is the CO cert that will survive  

My understanding is that both codes (UA and CO) will be used till a sinlgePSS (also CO's) is reached in 2012

As of SOC they will have to switch to one code as far as I know I don't think the feds will continue to allow them to operate as two separate carriers...that's kind of the whole point of SOC. Shares (which is the system CO and allot of other airlines use) will be rolled out to UA in early 2012 hopefully with FastShares as the GUI. There is at least one person who belives that this is simply a stop gap solution and 5 or 6 years down the road UA will switch to a different provider.

http://www.tnooz.com/2010/12/23/news...tions-system-and-transition-to-hp/

If all goes according to plan UA will turn in its operating certificate to the FAA on 11/11/11 and they will immediately file for an amended certificate to remove the CO name from the PMCO certificate and add UA. UA will also be keeping the PMUA maintenance certificate as it has allot more capabilities/authorizations then the PMCO one did.

Its also worth noting that the Operating Certificate is simply a licence to operate...the actual surviving corporation is UAL (which was renamed UA/CO Holdings on the merger date,) and United Air Lines Inc.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
timf
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:54 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 18):
As of SOC they will have to switch to one code as far as I know I don't think the feds will continue to allow them to operate as two separate carriers...that's kind of the whole point of SOC.

There's no mandate that they drop the two codes at the same time as SOC. In the DL/NW merger, the NW code was not retired until the full reservations switchover, which happened a month after SOC.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:40 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 18):
There is at least one person who belives that this is simply a stop gap solution and 5 or 6 years down the road UA will switch to a different provider.

One of my friends, a former UAer, has been following the merger closely. He said that HP Shares will only be a short/mid-term solution until a future migration (along with the rest of Star Alliance) to Amadeus.

Quoting timf (Reply 19):
There's no mandate that they drop the two codes at the same time as SOC. In the DL/NW merger, the NW code was not retired until the full reservations switchover, which happened a month after SOC.

You are correct. Like DL/NW, UA will be on SOC early next year, but the retirement of the CO code will not follow until spring after the migration to HP Shares.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
tpaewr
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:55 pm

Quoting timf (Reply 19):
There's no mandate that they drop the two codes at the same time as SOC. In the DL/NW merger, the NW code was not retired until the full reservations switchover, which happened a month after SOC.

Exactly, the CO code will remain in use till 2012, but I didn't wanna get into pi$$ing contest about it, since the info isn't avl externally.
 
United1
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:57 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 20):
Quoting timf (Reply 19):
There's no mandate that they drop the two codes at the same time as SOC. In the DL/NW merger, the NW code was not retired until the full reservations switchover, which happened a month after SOC.

You are correct. Like DL/NW, UA will be on SOC early next year, but the retirement of the CO code will not follow until spring after the migration to HP Shares.

My apologies I should have been clearer...As of SOC every flight will operate under one code but there is nothing that says the other code can't be retained as used as a "virtual" airline for lack of a better term... basically as a code share. Which is what NW and DL did...

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 20):
He said that HP Shares will only be a short/mid-term solution until a future migration (along with the rest of Star Alliance) to Amadeus.

That is what has been rumored....
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VC10er
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:33 pm

Quoting kfitz (Reply 13):

Well, I believe you are a bit correct. Why does the guy downstairs from me have a $3.5 million dollar apartment over twice the size of mine with 3 bathrooms (not one) a library, an extra bedroom and higher ceilings than I do? With a brand new kitchen and bathroom that could be featured in Metropolitan Home Magazine? Because he makes a lot more money than I do and that kind of comfort is what he seeks. And I bet he hates it when he'omen someone else's apt that's nicer than his. Does he feel superior to me? Maybe? I would love to have his apartment! Is he happier than me? Only God knows.
I fly anywhere from 18 to 25 long haul trips a year for my job. I have always chosen UA because of fond feelings I have for the brand, for MileagePlus which I have deemed to be the most generous when I did my homework and of all the American carriers, I felt they had the best First and until recently the first one to have real bed seats in business. Also, and most important, being GS gave me, frankly, unbelievable perks.

Out of the 20 or so long hauls, about 15 are UA, and about 10 or 11 of those are in F. I get into F 3 ways: my job buys me an F ticket (sometimes), I always have a full-fare biz ticket so I can use my 6 systemwide certs, or UA just bumps me up.
The new UA F seat is amazing and twice as good as C, especially on a 747, the sleep comfort is much better, a ton of

STORAGE and (I find the service as good as most) and I love the "looks" of the seat- the surface finishes look like a
Mercedes (to me). I DO NOT feel superior to those in business (on either UA or CO
seats) heck, 2 years ago all we
got was a mediocre recliner- how soon we forget! I do however feel bad for the people in economy. While they may
have paid $1100 for their seat vs $8.500. I really feel bad that in 2011 that economy isn't really that different than when
I was 20 years old (30 years ago) - except for AVOD and E+ on UA.

So there is a darn GOOD reason for First Class: for sky warriors like me who give UA a lot of money every year and
clearly helps UA compete on those routes that count.

From the heart: I DO NOT do it to feel superior to those in business oe economy, honest!


And thanks for staying on topic - one reason I posted!

[Edited 2011-09-25 10:40:31]

[Edited 2011-09-25 10:41:30]

[Edited 2011-09-25 10:45:40]
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
drerx7
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:27 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
If not mistaken ANA's 787s are 8-abreast, even those in higher-density domestic/regional configuration.

I think that will be temporary though. If you go to ANA's website they have a note that states "Special Domestic Seat Configuration *for a limited time only*"
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
qf002
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:46 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 25):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
If not mistaken ANA's 787s are 8-abreast, even those in higher-density domestic/regional configuration.

I think that will be temporary though. If you go to ANA's website they have a note that states "Special Domestic Seat Configuration *for a limited time only*"

   I'd have thought that these birds would eventually either have the long haul J product installed, or have a new Y class installed. It makes absolutely no sense for a domestic Japanese aircraft to have such spacious fittings in Y.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:38 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 8):
The Press Release leads one to believe the seating is 9 across. the 63 Y+ seats is a give away (7rows X9 = 63)

So I don't know where the thread went, but there was some discussion saying that even though it appears that way, there may be some funky layout reasons why the numbers look that way. I think some speculated that it is actually 8 rows of 8, but with one seat removed for some reason. Especially since 120 is not divisible by 9, but it is by 8.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:11 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 26):
So I don't know where the thread went, but there was some discussion saying that even though it appears that way, there may be some funky layout reasons why the numbers look that way. I think some speculated that it is actually 8 rows of 8, but with one seat removed for some reason. Especially since 120 is not divisible by 9, but it is by 8.

Nothing would be for sure until we see the configuration or the number of Y across is announced. However, based on the aircraft's reduction in width at the back, odd seating would be more likely in Y and not Y+. 63 Y+ seats would have to be 7 rows of 9 or 8 rows of 8 with a single seat removed somewhere. It doesn't seem likely in the middle of the aircraft that a pair of seats would have a seat removed - lavs, galleys, partitions and doors usually take out a set of seats..

Could it be that addition of Y+ led CO/UA to choose 9 vs. 8 across as Y+ removes a row of seating?

[Edited 2011-09-26 13:13:29]

[Edited 2011-09-26 13:16:48]
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qf002
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RE: All 50 UA 787's Will Be 2 Class? Or Not?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:37 am

Also just to put it out there -- Boeing has said themselves that the majority of customers have chosen 9 abreast, and I see no reason why UA wouldn't go for the denser configuration (of course I would rather they didn't, but from their perspective why would you when virtually everyone else is going to and you're just not going to be as profitable as them?)

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