klwright69
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UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:42 am

This little tag route from IAD is one of the most interesting routes of any US carrier in my opinion. It is served by a 3 class 777. I have seen it when I was in BAH.

How is it doing? Is the revenue really enough to justify it? Does the segment to KWI struggle to the point where it needs support from the tagon of BAH?

I know there is a US naval base in BAH, but BAH is such a tiny place.
 
IADLHR
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:10 am

It is my understanding that, at least, at one time, if not now, that IAD-KWI was doing very, very well. Thought I never understood why the tag on KWI-BAH-KWI, unless there is enough military traffic to justify it.
 
yellowtail
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:50 pm

I am sure there are some contracts involved with the us military/contractors on it. Probably cargo too.
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elmothehobo
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Thread starter):
I know there is a US naval base in BAH, but BAH is such a tiny place.

The Naval Base at Juffair (Naval Support Activity Bahrain) is home to the Fifth Fleet and Navy Central Command. Very important naval facility.
 
malioil
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:05 pm

I did the flight this Summer in J. BAH-KWI-IAD-JFK-IAD-KWI-BAH. The J class load was very, very healthy, in excess of 80%. There were many Kuwaitis and Bahrainis flying to Kuwait during the Summer. A good amount of Americans, indeed a huge amount of US personnel from the 5th fleet base were on the flight in all three classes. If I recall, even F had a 50% load which is quite healthy.

Overall, from my experience of the flight (have used it twice, once in Y and once in J) it is doing very well. There were a good amount of Bahrainis too going all the way to IAD for connections.

Earlier this year I was to organize a group flight for 20 passengers in Y to IAD for my school, I contacted UA and they told me they didn't have room for 20 seats in Y on the dates, even though I was inquiring a few months out. Ended up choosing BA.

There were many local GCC citizens flying BAH-KWI, and a fair share of others going all the way to IAD and beyond.

Personally, I don't expect this flight to go anytime soon.


Regards from Bahrain,

Mohammed

[Edited 2011-09-25 10:07:48]
 
klwright69
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:18 pm

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 3):
Quoting klwright69 (Thread starter):
I know there is a US naval base in BAH, but BAH is such a tiny place.

The Naval Base at Juffair (Naval Support Activity Bahrain) is home to the Fifth Fleet and Navy Central Command. Very important naval facility.


Yes, I know the base is important. I am talking about the COUNTRY being very tiny. I have been there.

I am encouraged that flight is doing well. I know there are not many flights on US carriers to Gulf countries.

And the unrest in Bahrain I am sure did not help.
 
WindowSeat
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:08 pm

I flew this flight KWI-BAH in Y a few months ago and it was practically empty. There were like 4 people in the middle section of Y. There were hardly any people in J either. Of course this is anecdotal evidence from one flight
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fxramper
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:53 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Thread starter):

How is it doing? Is the revenue really enough to justify it? Does the segment to KWI struggle to the point where it needs support from the tagon of BAH?

UA has the BAH flight because they can; one of those quirky deals like ACC-LOS.
 
kfitz
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:59 pm

the IAD-KWI leg is relatively full in all 3 cabins from what I've heard. The tag to BAH is supposedly more full in F and C than it is in Y. Also, the new 77Q is even flying this route at about a 50% rate.
 
klwright69
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:22 am

I am interested in this flight since I have lived in the Gulf. I know firsthand that Gulf countries are absolutely flooded with airlines.

Qatar, Air Arabia, Emirates, Etihad, Kuwait Airlines, Gulf Air, Jazeera, Ras al Kaimah Air (RAK Air), and I think there is a Nas Air, and on and on..

How this little United tag manages is interesting to me.. I see from above there are different experiences too.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:56 am

In this day and age, an airline isn't going to fly a route (especially a tag) unless its making cash. UAL likely has contracts involving the U.S. Government and perhaps some private companies who contract with the government to service the base.
 
ORDJOE
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:09 am

A lot of oil business, pentagon contracts, defense contractors, American expats. There Are a lot of wealthy middle eastern expats living around Washington DC. I am sure they do well.
 
gigneil
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:16 am

United has the GSA contract for more city pairs than any other carrier

NS
 
tsnamm
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:26 am

Quoting fxramper (Reply 7):
one of those quirky deals like ACC-LOS.

It looks as if ACC/LOS will be going away when UA/CO begins IAH/LOS , and the flight will be IAD/ACC only...
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:32 pm

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 13):
It looks as if ACC/LOS will be going away when UA/CO begins IAH/LOS , and the flight will be IAD/ACC only...

I've heard that as well ... I flew IAD-ACC-LOS in late July and there were 12 people on the ACC-LOS leg ....
 
bjorn14
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:35 pm

IIRC this is the only direct BAH-North America flight since GF dropped JFK & IAH.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:04 pm

The goverment is to use a US flag carrier whenever possible. Prior to the IS tag, this was near impossible until getting to a large European gateway like LHR/AMS/CDG etc. I lived in Bahrain for a bit and although there is a an AMC flight, it doesn't operate daily. Plus, most people COMMING to Bahrain on TDY or going to the states for the same reason use DTS for travel and its commercial straight through. Now I'm almost certain most of this travel is on UA.
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3rdGen
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:38 pm

The UA service is always going to be empty in the Middle Sector. Just like BAs LHR-BAH-DOH-BAH-LHR flight.

You've got to judge the flight based on the loads to and from the original destination. The point is to fill up half the plane with passengers for/from KWI and half for/from BAH, or any other combination of the two.

As a result if you're only flying the Middle Sector you're never sure of the actual loads as only part of the total load to and from IAD is on board. Either part have disembarked or only a part have boarded. As for the load between KWI-BAH-KWI thats probably bonus for UA, not the goal of the flight.

The routing is probably a result of needing to serve both destinations (commercial or other reasons) but not having the load to release two separate flights. Similar case with BA's BAH-DOH flight. I often fly that one, and its never full, but again its because I'm only flying the middle sector. I'm sure the legs to/from LHR-BAH do well.

Does anyone know how the Flight Crew are rotated on this flight? I'm assuming one crew for IAD-KWI a second for KWI-BAH-KWI and a third for KWI-IAD. The aircrafts on the ground in Bahrain for a very long time. Usually parked beside Cathy's service.
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washingtonian
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 15):
IIRC this is the only direct BAH-North America flight since GF dropped JFK & IAH.

Jeez, when was this? 15-20 years ago probably right (for JFK)?
 
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3rdGen
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:13 am

Ya must have stopped in the late 90s. I flew it in 95/96, and it was stopped soon after.
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LGWGate49
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:24 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 16):
The goverment is to use a US flag carrier whenever possible.

That is correct.

Military fares are a nice high yield. IIRC they were a minimum of $1,000USD one way from the Middle East to USA in the early 2000s. And the US fifth fleet has considerable traffic which I would guess UA is fulfilling being the only US carrier into BAH.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:30 pm

Quoting LGWGate49 (Reply 20):

When I was living in Bahrain with my Dad, the average RT fare through Europe was usually at the tune of $1300-$1800 and much more for close-in fares. From what I saw, most folks were doing either BAH-LHR-XXX on AA/UA, BAH-AMS-XXX on NW or through DXB on DL. Many more combinations but these were the most common.
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3rdGen
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RE: UA's BAH -- KWI Service

Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:07 pm

GF still flies a significant number of troops since they have a code share with AA.
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