727LOVER
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TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:21 pm

This story is a few days old, so I'm thinking this may be a double-thread. If so, my apologies. I checked our lovely search function and didn't find anything.

TSA-Searches-Womans-Afro-Hair-for-Weapons-130220258.html" target="_blank">http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/TSA...ro-Hair-for-Weapons-130220258.html



Dallas hairstylist Isis Brantley was shocked when TSA agents came up to her on the platform of the interterminal train at the Atlanta airport and told her they needed to check her Afro for drugs and explosives. TSA hair checks aren't unheard of, but they are invasive, and this is certainly the first case we've heard of a search so far from security. The TSA claims that Ms. Brantley simply walked off before her security screening was over, and that they offered to take her to a private area for the pat down, but Brantley disputes both those claims.


TSA-Search-Dallas-Womans-Afro-ATL-Train-Platform-19161550" target="_blank">http://www.bellasugar.com/TSA-Search...s-Afro-ATL-Train-Platform-19161550

So now, wouldn't the machine catch anything when she walked through???  
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jetjack74
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:28 am

Slow news day I guess. This is just so stupid. Let them search that silly rats nest on your head and let the world turn. Does everything have to be an issue now. Everything is an invasion of someone civil rights. The TSA maybe somewhat incompetent at times, but largely, they're just covering their bases. Stupid idiot
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kgaiflyer
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:47 am

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 1):
Slow news day I guess. This is just so stupid. Let them search that silly rats nest on your head and let the world turn. Does everything have to be an issue now. Everything is an invasion of someone civil rights. The TSA maybe somewhat incompetent at times, but largely, they're just covering their bases. Stupid idiot

Well . . . I guess some people don't look honest.

For instance, Saturday I got stopped by TSA at Concourse G in MIA because my replacement-passport (the new kind with micro-chips and an antenna embedded in it) was never signed.

They gave me a pen, and I signed it. Then they asked for my driver's license to be sure the signatures matched up. Now it was "Get out of our faces." End of issue -- move on. Across the way two teenage girls were catching flack and were having their shoes examined and having their backpack -- first x-rayed multiple times -- then hand searched.

I guess some folks simply don't look wholesome.  
 
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jetjack74
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:56 am

Being airline crew, I deal with them everyday almost, some are nice, some are turds. I'm not saying they should have unchecked powers or have the right to be snotty to people, just that someone checking someone afro is not a violation of civil rights
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tommytoyz
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:37 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
The TSA claims that Ms. Brantley simply walked off before her security screening was over

I had a similar situation were the US custom agents lied. They said exactly the same thing. Another passenger told me way outside of Customs in LAX that "they" were looking for me, so I went back voluntarily and subjected myself to a search. Later US customs requested I respond in writing as to why I had "run away" - which is a total lie by two other agents who themselves simply walked away after asking me some questions. Besides, it's not even possible.

Does anyone really believe that anyone can simply walk away or run away from a TSA or US Customs inspection - and get away?
 
Grid
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:57 am

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 1):
Stupid idiot

Who is the stupid idiot in this case? The TSA agent or the person who complained?

They pat down cargo shorts pockets and, at least once, an eldery person's soiled diaper. Not sure why an afro would be exempt.
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:12 am

TSA is not so stupid.
Not so long ago a woman flying to CDG from South America was found with a 1 kilo cushion of cocaine betwen her hair (fake) and skull.
It was a hell of a hairdo apparently and that's what has raised attention.
If you can hide 1 kilo of coke, you can hide anything else
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United_fan
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:34 am

I had to take my wallet and paper $ out of my pants pockets and have them run through the scanner again in ROC in May. Never had that happen before.
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LongbowPilot
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:30 pm

Just remember what happened 10 years ago.

Just remember what the public demanded.

Just remember, sigh, and move through the line.
 
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United_fan
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Quoting longbowpilot (Reply 8):
Just remember what happened 10 years ago.

Well,everything that was brought aboard 10 years ago was 'legal' .
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flashmeister
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:35 pm

Quoting longbowpilot (Reply 8):
Just remember what happened 10 years ago.

Just remember what the public demanded.

Just remember, sigh, and move through the line.

I don't think what the public demanded was security theater, which is exactly what we have today. The public demand is for absolute air security, which is a pipe dream. It's not possible. So why we waste as many resources as we do on pretend-security measures, I'll never understand.
 
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:15 pm

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 1):
Slow news day I guess. This is just so stupid. Let them search that silly rats nest on your head and let the world turn. Does everything have to be an issue now. Everything is an invasion of someone civil rights. The TSA maybe somewhat incompetent at times, but largely, they're just covering their bases. Stupid idiot

  

Well we are the land of "oh I'm so offended!!" or "that's offensive". We need to get the f@$k over it and move on.
When going through a TSA checkpoint, it should be obvious that you are subject to search.
OMG lol did I really just defend TSA...
 
andz
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:49 pm

The fashion police should be checking the afros. I mean really, this is 2011!!!
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kgaiflyer
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:46 pm

Quoting andz (Reply 12):
The fashion police should be checking the afros. I mean really, this is 2011!!!

I understand that a couple of the "Fashion Police" personalities get so much razz in airports that E Network spots them for private jets.

So they would never have been on the scene.
 
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:25 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 11):
Well we are the land of "oh I'm so offended!!" or "that's offensive". We need to get the f@$k over it and move on.
When going through a TSA checkpoint, it should be obvious that you are subject to search.
OMG lol did I really just defend TSA...

Sure, but I'd rather have people complain than not complain at all - that's a beautiful part of freedom and democracy. You just did it yourself.
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:46 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Dallas hairstylist Isis Brantley was shocked when TSA agents came up to her on the platform of the interterminal train at the Atlanta airport and told her they needed to check her Afro for drugs and explosives.

First question - why wasn't she checked at the checkpoint? Why did they wait until she was on the train - sounds like a goof up by the TSA at this point that they let her past the checkpoint if they were so suspicious of her.

Second question - Isn't the TSA's job to check for security? not drugs. Aren't they overstepping their bounds if they are telling people they are searching for drugs? I understand if they happen to find drugs while they are searching bags for weapons/bombs then they would notify police or happen to find drugs on someone while having a person empty their pockets and they pull out a joint. I figure that would be DEA or other department's responsibilty to check someone's hair for drugs.

Quoting longbowpilot (Reply 8):
Just remember what happened 10 years ago.

Just remember what the public demanded.

And we still haven't gotten it. What we got instead is ex cons and should be cons working at checkpoints stealing lap tops, weapons etc, fondling kids, harassing grandma and we are not one bit safer with these guys. On top of that prior to what happened 10 years ago - the airlines were paying for security, now our tax dollars are.
 
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:15 pm

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 1):
Let them search that silly rats nest on your head

 
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PanHAM
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:41 am

I didn't know that Angela Davis is still around.....    

Anyhow, this kind of "security" is clownesque, nothing else. . OIf the metal detectors or these radiology machines do not detect anything, then that's it. No reason to humíliate people. What comes next, obese people having to prove that it is really fact?
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kgaiflyer
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:07 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 17):
I didn't know that Angela Davis is still around.....

It's Dr. Angela Davis now, and she just retired from UC-Santa Cruz at age 67.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:19 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 17):
What comes next, obese people having to prove that it is really fact?

Looks like you're having trouble with the language, yes?
 
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:12 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 17):
Anyhow, this kind of "security" is clownesque, nothing else. . OIf the metal detectors or these radiology machines do not detect anything, then that's it. No reason to humíliate people. What comes next, obese people having to prove that it is really fact?

I don't think searching an Afro is humiliating to its owner. Your point about the machines not detecting anything: it does make me wonder how many holes our security has if you can through a body scanner but still have to be patted down (I have been patted down every time and swabbed once). I don't whether that means the system is working or it's broken.
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PanHAM
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:29 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 19):
Looks like you're having trouble with the language, yes?

no, with the keyboard, or the fingers, pick your choice.

.

Quoting Grid (Reply 20):
I don't think searching an Afro is humiliating to its owner.

I said first of all that the searches are clownesque. If all a terrorist does make it to the TSA check point it means the system is "broken" for the simple fact that intelligence should have found the guy a long time before he intended to hi-jack and aircraft or whatever else the intention as.

Fact is that millions of innocent people are harrassed more or less worldwide every day. Searching hair styles is a joke, many other hilarious episodes of the daily TSA follies have been discussed here, from guys climbing on pitot tubes to see if there are evil doers hiding on top of the aircraft to grannies having to strip their diapers. When I see the TSA requirements in cargo, my domain, I can only pray to the Lord, let it rain brain.

We have a real drain on ressources every day sand what is done is really not intelligent.
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LongbowPilot
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:03 am

-Stepping forward to a security checkpoint, be definition from the Supreme Court, is consent to search. It is not unreasonable and all are subjected for security and safety of air travelers and the public below.

Quoting United_fan (Reply 9):
Well,everything that was brought aboard 10 years ago was 'legal' .

You are correct.

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 10):
I don't think what the public demanded was security theater, which is exactly what we have today. The public demand is for absolute air security, which is a pipe dream. It's not possible. So why we waste as many resources as we do on pretend-security measures, I'll never understand.

We are not wasting resources, they are charging the public more per ticket to facilitate this "Theater."   

Seriously though, United_Fan hit it right. They did nothing more then utilize authorized items, INTIMIDATION, and OUR PROCEDURES to commit this attack. Sure TSA is a supreme knee jerk reaction but it is what the public demanded, a agency full of professional trained screeners to ensure AIR TIGHT security.

You may call it a farce, theater, or show and tell, but the point here is. If you are going to fly, know how to prepare your checked and carry on baggage, and your Weave or you may be subjected to the scrutiny of security.

Its been 10 years and anyone showing up complaining at security about what they are going through obviously has lived in a vacuum since 9/11/01.
 
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:10 am

Quoting longbowpilot (Reply 22):
-Stepping forward to a security checkpoint, be definition from the Supreme Court, is consent to search. It is not unreasonable and all are subjected for security and safety of air travelers and the public below.

Consenting to a search does not mean the search is necessarily reasonable. One can quickly go outside the consent given and make it unreasonable.

I agree, here, that the search was reasonable. Patting down an elderly woman's soiled diaper might be too.

Quoting longbowpilot (Reply 22):
Its been 10 years and anyone showing up complaining at security about what they are going through obviously has lived in a vacuum since 9/11/01.

I did not realize how many people in this country have lived in vacuums (or vacuum, if they all live in one big one) since 9/11.
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:28 am

Quoting Grid (Reply 23):
I did not realize how many people in this country have lived in vacuums (or vacuum, if they all live in one big one) since 9/11.

We've been living in Buffoonery. The Three Stooges would make better Security agents than most of the TSA.
 
brandonfsu05
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:27 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):
I said first of all that the searches are clownesque. If all a terrorist does make it to the TSA check point it means the system is "broken" for the simple fact that intelligence should have found the guy a long time before he intended to hi-jack and aircraft or whatever else the intention as.

Not every terrorist operates in a cell...not every person seeking to do bad things on a plane has to be a terrorist in the 'conventional' sense...

No system will be 100%. It seems many people have developed an unquestionable bias against TSA. I don't know...would it make it better if we gave people different uniforms and changed their name? Should TSA pass out cookies and beg people to voluntarily cooperate? How about we just operate on the honor system. Security doesn't work anyways...so why bother with any? TSA serves as a deterrent to terrorists, drug smugglers etc. Since TSA is on the federal level it seems it allows them more cooperation with CBP and other federal agencies as well. Who knows...maybe if security was on the private level federal mandates and up to the minute security protocols couldn't be handled as effectively.

An Afro is not a private area...I don't see what the problem is with having an agent pat you on the head and search some....they check your legs, torso, arms...what's the big deal?

I don't understand where these people get so many negative experiences in TSA... I've always had pleasant or at least neutral screeners. I just do what I am told. If they tell me jump...I would jump...I don't try to tell them how to do their job, roll my eyes, sigh, talk on my cell phone when I should be focusing or speak passive aggressively...


At the end of the day...people (especially Americans) hate being told what to do... think the world revolves around them....and love feeling like some grave injustice has been committed against them...

Quoting longbowpilot (Reply 22):
Seriously though, United_Fan hit it right. They did nothing more then utilize authorized items, INTIMIDATION, and OUR PROCEDURES to commit this attack. Sure TSA is a supreme knee jerk reaction but it is what the public demanded, a agency full of professional trained screeners to ensure AIR TIGHT security.

You may call it a farce, theater, or show and tell, but the point here is. If you are going to fly, know how to prepare your checked and carry on baggage, and your Weave or you may be subjected to the scrutiny of security.

People have short term memories...if another major terrorist attack happened in the USA the same uncooperative complaining people in security would be so quick to criticize why enough security measures haven't been enacted...or this or that wasn't done...right now its envogue to complain about excessive TSA measures...with all the technology and cell phones...its never been easier...

The general public seems to take the role of the poor people vs police...police are there to make your life complicated...not to protect you...TSA is there to make your life complicated...not to protect you...its really funny...
 
PanHAM
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:44 am

Quoting Grid (Reply 23):
Consenting to a search does not mean the search is necessarily reasonable

exactly. we have no choice when travelling by air. That can be accepted as long as the searches are reasonable. I compare what we have in Europe with the status quo in the USA. Generally, in the US and from what we read constantly here and in publications and by own experience, the searches in the US are in an unfriendly, authoritarian environment, whereas it usually is, at least in my country, friendly, swift and without much hassle. It can be done, we pay for it, it is a service and travellers are what they are, not suspects.


Quoting brandonfsu05 (Reply 25):

Not every terrorist operates in a cell...not every person seeking to do bad things on a plane has to be a terrorist in the 'conventional' sense...

yes, and paranoia is the name of the game in the US since 9/11. I will never accept that the land of the free partially gave up their civil rights so easily.

A waste of ressources happens every day when it comes to freight movements. I don't have the time now to go into details, but the stupidity in what the US requires for shipments with destination US is unbvelievable. Consumer have to pay for the BS every day when shopping in the super markets.

If the intelligence services don't do their jobs properly, something like 9711 can happen again, most of the added "security" measures will not prevent anything or are meaning and senseless in firts place. Just cost money and make some business modells no longer workable.
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LongbowPilot
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:44 pm

Quoting Grid (Reply 23):
Consenting to a search does not mean the search is necessarily reasonable. One can quickly go outside the consent given and make it unreasonable.

You are correct, but I think the "Drones" at the checkpoint are not going to reinvent the wheel on site, and are following their procedures, or I'm sure we would hear about it in the news when someone gets suspended or canned for going too far.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 24):
We've been living in Buffoonery. The Three Stooges would make better Security agents than most of the TSA.

Living in Baffoonery? I gather you do not travel much, because I have yet to see a TSA: Moe, Larry, and Curly socking it up at the checkpoint. Sure it is a naked-midget-rodeo going through the line, but what do you want? A unimpeded, unchecked, non-scrutinized passage to the gate where anyone and everyone brings a weapon on the plane and when chaos does break out its anarchy? You want the way it was before 9/11? You want it the way it was before Pan Am 103?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 26):
If the intelligence services don't do their jobs properly, something like 9711 can happen again,

It's easy to blame the intelligence services when something happens, but someone also noted that it does not take a "CELL" to do the deed either. So if they are new and do not pop up on a big radar screen they will not be caught until it is too late. In addition we live in a country that values privacy and doesn't have a KGB style service that can do what they want, and invade everyone's privacy. If the intelligence agency is to be blamed it should be for not being more invasive to "catch" your terrorists.

Think about it PanHAM, they have been catching terrorist cells all over the world since 9/11 in many countries. I would think our agencies are doing just fine right now. The one that will byte is in the booty is going to be the one that is thinking out side of the box and going to do something we have not imagined would happen.

In the end, there will never be a hijacking that will result in what happened on 9/11 in the U.S. again, unless the crew is in on it (Egypt Air 990). The crew sits behind a reinforced door that will not open (we hope) unless the crew is in on it or succumbs to threat. In addition the adage to SIT and not Interfere will not fly with anyone anymore either. Anyone that gets out of line will be met with SEVERE resistance on the plane. s

-Attack
 
Grid
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:28 pm

Quoting longbowpilot (Reply 27):
Think about it PanHAM, they have been catching terrorist cells all over the world since 9/11 in many countries. I would think our agencies are doing just fine right now. The one that will byte is in the booty is going to be the one that is thinking out side of the box and going to do something we have not imagined would happen.

Yes they have, except for London, Madrid, Pakistan (multiple events), Iraq (multiple events), India (multiple events), Afghanistan (multiple events) China (at least a few), Israel (multiple events). I don't know that our agencies are doing that well. If you take credit for busting up cells in other countries, you should accept a bit of blame for letting a few get through, even though it certainly is difficult, if not impossible, to stop these attacks.

Quoting longbowpilot (Reply 27):
You are correct, but I think the "Drones" at the checkpoint are not going to reinvent the wheel on site, and are following their procedures, or I'm sure we would hear about it in the news when someone gets suspended or canned for going too far.

I agree, I think that those who go too far are usually just poorly trained. But most people just remember the bad things that occur and often fail to remember the good times or even the mediocre ones. However, I have to say U.S. checkpoints are way more of a pain than foreign ones.
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PanHAM
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:49 am

Quoting longbowpilot (Reply 27):
It's easy to blame the intelligence services when something happens, but someone also noted that it does not take a "CELL" to do the deed either.

I was asked somewhere up here if I had probems with the language. Well, I don't.

You did not notice the little word IF. That meant, in the context of the sentence, that I certainly did not blame the intelligence services. They have to do their jobs and overnight news was that they did exactly that. Good. But I certainly did not blame intelligence services for anything here, so please don't make this up.

The essence is that the checkpoints are necessary, cockpit doors may prevent hi-jackings but can contribute sometims that aircraft fly belly up and Egypt Air 990 was a suicide action by an assumingly pedophile co-pilot who rammed the aircraft into the ocean.

The problem is how TSA does the job. I am not complaining that once at IAH some TSA yoyo put someone elses dirty boots on top of my jacket. I yelled at him to take the f...ing boots outta there and was not arrested. But in which environment must people grow up to act like that? It oes all the way down starting from law makers in washington who make rules which have nothing to do with reality. That goes for passenger checks and much more for cargo where we have to work with most ridiculous procedures. Not only in the US.

Our interior minister implemented new measure "to make air cargo safer" because of that incident where the UPS at CGN transferred a shipment originating in Yemen which was at CGN my be 90 minutes in transit. There's no way no measdure to make air cargo safer in Germany because nobody in Germany had anything to do with that. But politicians are resistant to advice, they want to get their headlines and the general public is plain dumb.





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MD11Engineer
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:59 am

Quoting longbowpilot (Reply 22):
-Stepping forward to a security checkpoint, be definition from the Supreme Court, is consent to search. It is not unreasonable and all are subjected for security and safety of air travelers and the public below.

From the article it looks as if they didn´t search her at a checkpoint, but instead stopped her somewhere inside the sterile area and searched her there. Also, the reasoning that they were looking for drugs sounds to me as if they were clearly out of their jurisdiction. The TSA´s job is to prevent weapons or dangerous objects to be brought on board of aircraft, nothing more. They are not the police, FBI, BFT, US Customs or DEA. It looks as if they were overstepping their authority.
If they by chance find drugs during a routine search for weapons, then they´ll notify the police (over here the actual search is often done by private companies, but there is almost always a real cop present at the checkpoint to represent the state and to make an arrest if necessary).
If they had to search the woman AFTER she passed the checkpoint, then something was very wrong in first place.

Jan
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bjorn14
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:12 am

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 10):
The public demand is for absolute air security, which is a pipe dream. It's not possible.

You're right. The only thing TSA really does is make the bad guys think twice and/or get more creative.
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LongbowPilot
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RE: TSA Searches A Woman's Afro

Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:02 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30):
If they had to search the woman AFTER she passed the checkpoint, then something was very wrong in first place.

Perhaps something was wrong... Maybe they did not like her faux pas for wearing a weave.

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