flyb
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Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:05 pm

I was reading in the Edmonton Sun that the administration at YEG is planning for a second daily flight after terminal completion in a few months. This really caught me off guard as I would assume FRA would before a second LHR flight. They also mention they are hopeful for New York this doesn't surprise me as WS as stated publically they would like to add a flight. But the LHR is strange to me as I don't see AC doing that unless they want to add more capacity. I'm sure BA wouldn't invest in YEG.

That being said the article is from the Edmonton Sun, but they seem to be quoting Traci Bernard from YEG.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2011/09/2...campaign-targets-the-calgary-habit
 
cyeg66
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:22 pm

Since they don't even have a year round daily flight right now, it might be a little wishful thinking on their part to expect a second one to materialize. Essentially, let the airlines make the the announcements, not the airport operators.  
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
flyb
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:47 pm

My thoughts exactly. Yeg has burned themselves so many times by doing this. They seem to always raise their catchment areas hopes with these statements. And piss off airlines
 
Viscount724
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:54 pm

Quoting flyb (Thread starter):
I'm sure BA wouldn't invest in YEG.

You never know. BA served YEG (and YYC) for a year or two in the early 1980s as part of their original service to western Canada, although only once or twice a week as a stop to/from YVR. L-1011-500s were used on those flights.

They dropped the YEG and YYC stops after a couple of years as part of major cutbacks when they eliminated service to quite a few secondary destinations to try to stem major losses. They also sold their L-1011-500s to the RAF as part of those cutbacks.

YEG's population has increased by more than 50% since then.
 
flyb
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:02 pm

But now with BA flying directly into yyc with a ws code share I dint see them going head to head with just AC but with their route out of YYC. Again I know the loads out of YEG are great to LHR and AC has almost lauch 10x weekly service in the summer but it seems like a stretch. Don't get me wrong I wish yeg the best but this isn't even a target for them. Then again if the can't get a FRA flight this would be good anything is better than nothing. I feel they talk to much talk and don't deliver (eraa)
 
yegbey01
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:20 pm

I think it was meant to be going daily all year long...which should be well supported.

But I would think that such comment must be based on some dialogue with the airlines. But once again, where does the AC metal come from? My understanding is that AC is pretty much fully utilizing their 763's.

And if BA is indeed interested in serving YEG, I kind of wonder how AC is going to react!

As for NYC, United/Continental could run a summer seasonal service or even WestJet for that matter....I know this has been talked about for years now, but I think the new CEO at WestJet has decided to continue to build up the YYC hub and hasn't committed any major increases to YEG. In fact hey dropped SFO last summer in favor of YVR and YYC getting more frequencies.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:51 pm

This "build it and they will come" attitude is such a cliche !

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 5):
My understanding is that AC is pretty much fully utilizing their 763's.

your understanding would be correct !

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 1):
Essentially, let the airlines make the the announcements, not the airport operators.

Absolutely !

Airport operators should worry about operating their airports !.....Let the airlines worry about which routes they decide to expand.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:39 am

The Edmonton Airport Authority is a quasi independent organization that, by omissions made during its formation, actually has zero oversight by government. What they do with their cash or their properties is entirely up to them. The board can't be fired and basically have jobs for life.

YEG has long ago lost the 'Alberta's Airport' position to YYC...yet, they just can't seem to accept it. If an airline can only choose one destination in Alberta, it will be YYC. YEG flights are first to get cut.

With the creation of a new YYC international terminal and the new runway, that position will only be solidified.

Edmonton is continually shooting itself in the foot trying to 'beat' Calgary at a game it has long ago lost. The one advantage Edmonton has, the city center airport, has been hobbled by a short sighted and developer controlled city council.

The 'Muni' is an absolute jewel of an airport...which any city with any sense would be proud to have. Yet Edmonton will squander this amazing resource to throw more cash at the swamp that YEG is built on.

With the over half a billion dollars of expansion, YEG will end being the fanciest regional airport nobody flies to.
What the...?
 
flyb
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:22 am

I agree that the sun probably just misquoted them, and the AC flight will be going to daily year round. Right now it is just during the summer so that makes sense.

My friend works for the engineering firm that is working on the airport; showed me some great pictures. It looks great. He said the transborder area should be open around February 2012 since everything is on track and below cost.

Thanks for the feed back on the article, just thought I would throw it out there to get all your 'expert' thoughts  
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:37 pm

Since were kinda on the subject...

Here are some interesting passenger statistics for 2011 thus far.

YEG

til August 2011 - 4,209,877 (+2.1%)

YYC

til July 2011 - 7,344,592 (+0.4%)

In the month of July, traffic at YYC was down 0.9% compared to the same month in 2010.
Internation traffic for YTD 2011 is down 1.4%

now, considering how close YYC came to overtake YUL two years ago, it is amazing to see that there will be a 1 million gap this year between the two airports.

YUL

til July 2011 - 8,111,264 (+6.5%)

Domestic up 4.6% YTD (9.1% in July 2011 compared to July 2010, which is very impressive)
International up 9.5% YTD
Transborder up 4.5% YTD

What is even more akward is that Western Canada is doing much better than Quebec in terms of economic growth. Be it as it may, chances are this is the result of Quebecers finally opening up to "normal" levels of air travel after decades of under achievement.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 9):
What is even more akward is that Western Canada is doing much better than Quebec in terms of economic growth. Be it as it may, chances are this is the result of Quebecers finally opening up to "normal" levels of air travel after decades of under achievement.

The east was hit much harder than the west during the last, (current?), economic turndown. High fuel prices hurt the manufacturing east and help the producing west.

As a result, they will have more of a rebound.

If you look at population numbers being serviced by the airports, YYC and YEG serve a population base significantly smaller than YUL, yet combined, they carry more passengers.

I do agree that Quebec has been lagging in air travel. I'm surprised YUL numbers aren't higher.
What the...?
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:05 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):
YYC and YEG serve a population base significantly smaller than YUL, yet combined, they carry more passengers.
Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):
I'm surprised YUL numbers aren't higher.

2.1 million vs 3.6 million...wouldn't call it huge, but sure. You are correct to some extent. That being said however, the reasons behind YUL's relatively low traffic count have been discussed to death on here.

Just as a refresher....part of the answer lies in the fact that YUL is within 600km's of 5 major urban areas, namely (YYZ, NYC, BOS, PHL, YOW etc)

People would much rather take trains, cars or (BTV and PLB) etc to these cities than fly out of YUL. Secondly, the cultural differences between Canada and the "Quebecois" tends to limit the latter's travel across Canada, which is evidenced by the low domestic traffic figures at YUL compared to YYC.

Whereas in Cowtown (or Cowtown wannabee ).....if you wanna go in or out, you're flying out of YYC or YEG.....But mostly YYC.....   ....Period.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:16 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):

Whereas in Cowtown (or Cowtown wannabee ).....if you wanna go in or out, you're flying out of YYC or YEG.....But mostly YYC..... ....Period.

I agree...for all the hundreds of millions that Edmonton is tossing at expanding YEG, they will continue to be perpetual also rans in the quest for Western Canadian air passengers.

If only they were smart enough to properly utilize the muni...that airport is an absolute jewel...an unmatched downtown airport. Even if they only allowed TProps...they would make a ton.

Oh well...

At least they won't have to worry about the new carpet in YEG wearing out any time soon.
What the...?
 
SANFan
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:48 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6):
Airport operators should worry about operating their airports !.....Let the airlines worry about which routes they decide to expand


Sure, BUT an airport not only has to operate their existing facility, they are the ones to decide when they need more space to accommodate growth. And they need to have some basis for going forward with expansion in the first place -- from the tenants. One would expect that somewhere before the current project began, there were studies, discussions, and analyses that convinced the airport folks to proceed -- based on airline interaction and speculation, there was in fact a need for more space at the airport.

Those "commitments" of course, are never 100% sure so it is obviously a big gamble involving millions (or billions) of dollars... Either the airport sits back, doesn't believe anything they see or hear, and does nothing, or they decide to go ahead, and hope it plays out...

bb
 
flyb
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:17 am

I guess we'll see about the expansions at YEG. I know they really need more room in their domestic arrivals area, as well as Transborder during the peaks. YEG isn't building a YYZ or a YYC, they are building an airport for the next wave. I don't think it is unreasonable what they are building there. The fact is the current airport wouldn't be able to hold another boom when the economy returns, which it will there and with force with all expansion in the oil industry alone. I really like their airport and what they are doing, just as I like YYC and our facility.

Are they still planning on tearing down the old control tower? I just saw the new one for the first time, and it is pretty amazing looking.
 
cyeg66
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:22 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 12):
If only they were smart enough to properly utilize the muni...that airport is an absolute jewel...an unmatched downtown airport. Even if they only allowed TProps...they would make a ton.

Careful now, that's twice now you've fanned the flame that's burned at the heart of this city for a few decades. Props feed traffic onto mainline, but not if they're at different airports. Mainline (prepared to fly more than 300nm) would never have used the impossible-to-expand muni so the decision is (was) clear. Simply put, a catchment area similar to Calgary's would like some flight options. Its residents aren't asking for the moon. The muni, unfortunately, is (was) a jewel for flight training schools but that ship is also sailing with the decommissioning of the ILS.
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
flyb
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:38 am

Guys don't hijack the thread with cca talk please.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:04 am

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 15):
Simply put, a catchment area similar to Calgary's would like some flight options.

They have one...it's called YYC.
What the...?
 
cyeg66
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:09 am

^See, he started it.    
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:19 am

................didn't.
What the...?
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:01 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 7):
The one advantage Edmonton has, the city center airport, has been hobbled by a short sighted and developer controlled city council.
Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 12):
If only they were smart enough to properly utilize the muni...that airport is an absolute jewel...an unmatched downtown airport. Even if they only allowed TProps...they would make a ton.

The way i see it, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't !

People will always argue both sides of the issue....Just look at YMX. When it was open, people were complaining that the airport was too far and lacked proper public transportation. Now that it is closed for commerical flights, the very same people are probably the ones crying for its return.

People make choices and they don't look back. They can't afford to. That's just the way it is.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 13):
Sure, BUT an airport not only has to operate their existing facility, they are the ones to decide when they need more space to accommodate growth
Quoting SANFan (Reply 13):
One would expect that somewhere before the current project began, there were studies, discussions, and analyses that convinced the airport folks to proceed

Anyone can figure out that YEG needs more terminal space. When demand exceeds capacity, that's as good as it's going to get to start the expansion. No need for studies, discussions and analyses. In fact, the people at YEG probably needed to have these "discussions" a few years before, to be ahead of the game, instead of playing catchup. That being said, no one is arguing that YEG doesn't need to expand.

What i am arguining about is the unecessary innuendo and speculation about possible new routes, without proper commitment by the airlines.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 13):
Those "commitments" of course, are never 100% sure

In YEG's case, unless AC or WG are about to upgauge or start YEG-LHR, it is 100% false, especially with a looming recession right at our doorstep.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2011-09-28 10:11:45]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:48 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 20):

What i am arguining about is the unecessary innuendo and speculation about possible new routes, without proper commitment by the airlines.

YEG has been burned by this thinking before. Build it and they will come doesn't work for airlines.
What the...?
 
flyb
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:47 pm

I'm curious how they have been burned by that approach before? The only modernization that they have had to the original 1960's terminal was in the late 90's. That terminal is not at capacity.

Doesn't anyone have any recent overhead pictures of the new terminal or the control tower design. I'm jut leaving YYC for a FRA on LH. I guess I might see it as I fly over head 
 
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c172akula
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:03 pm

Quoting flyb (Reply 22):
Doesn't anyone have any recent overhead pictures of the new terminal or the control tower design. I'm jut leaving YYC for a FRA on LH. I guess I might see it as I fly over head

As of September 4th:


Edmonton International by cowtowncor, on Flickr
 
yegbey01
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:21 pm

Pictures look great...But just looks like patch work to me with a non-integrated design. I am flying to YEG this weekend, so will be able to see it up close
 
tinosky
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:49 pm

YEG seems like they want to play "catch-up" with YYC. Once YYC gets the new terminal and new runway, YEG won’t stand a chance.

If anything, they would add more LHR flights from YYC, Which I don’t think would happen anytime soon. Reason?

AC has daily service, With 773
BA has daily service, With 763
Thomas Cook has daily serviceto Gatwick, With A332

This does not include other (close proximity services):

KLM has daily to Amsterdam, With MD11
AC has daily to Frankfurt, With A333
LH has daily to Frankfurt, With A343

Good luck YEG. Stay with the capacity you already have.

TInosky,

[Edited 2011-09-28 15:51:20]
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:23 pm

Quoting Tinosky (Reply 25):
KLM has daily to Amsterdam, With MD11

yeahh....not quite buddy!

KL was 5 weekly this past year with A332. It will be 4 weekly from March to May 2012, and then 6 weekly (so far) next summer, still with an A332.

An MD-11 (more seats than A332) was planned for summer 2011, along with a 6th weekly frequency, but that got cancelled, meaning KL is not having the success it thought it would at YYC.

Quoting Tinosky (Reply 25):
LH has daily to Frankfurt, With A343
LH downgrades to 5 weekly for the winter season i believe, just as it has since it started service to YYC.

Quoting Tinosky (Reply 25):
Once YYC gets the new terminal and new runway, YEG won’t stand a chance.

As for knocking down YEG, take it easy there....Need i remind you YEG is growing at a faster rate than YYC is in 2011 (see reply 9). As i said before, YYC saw a decline in international traffic for the month of July. That's not a healthy sign either.

If YYC thinks its going to get more international flights simply because there will be more gates at the airport, it is mistaken too. Negative to no growth in that sector will not exactly attract the airlines to Cowtown.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2011-09-28 16:31:32]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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c172akula
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:13 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 26):
An MD-11 (more seats than A332) was planned for summer 2011, along with a 6th weekly frequency, but that got cancelled, meaning KL is not having the success it thought it would at YYC.

The MD-11 did operate the AMS route over the summer. Just switched back to the 332 a few weeks ago.
 
cyeg66
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:49 am

Quoting Tinosky (Reply 25):
YEG seems like they want to play "catch-up" with YYC.

No, they're expanding their airport. The only thing "they're" trying to do is "catch up" with "passenger capacity" and improve the current infrastructure's lack thereof.

Quoting Tinosky (Reply 25):
If anything, they would add more LHR flights from YYC, Which I don’t think would happen anytime soon.

LHR is a dog's breakfast. Well, that's perhaps a little harsh, but certainly its place amongst the world's most important int'l airports is on the downslide. (Thank your elected officials, Britons) What YEGmontonians, many of them first-generation Canadians, covet perhaps most (and would mostly benefit from) is a nonstop flight to FRA.
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
AC183
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:22 pm

The muni worked well for local flights, but was terrible for connectivity. If Edmonton was smart, they'd extend the LRT all the way to YEG, make that route as quick as possible, and the convenience of a single airport with good transport links to their advantage, hopefully negating the otherwise inconvenient location of YEG...
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:25 pm

Porter manages pretty well in Toronto...in fact, Porter does so well that AC has moved there. London City airport is very busy. There is a long list of cities that do very well with a regional/international airport combo.

Southwest and Ryanair have become two of the largest airlines on the planet by avoiding the big airports.

If their ego could take it, they could have a humongous regional hub with Q400's covering all of western Canada from Winnipeg to Vancouver to Yellowknife.

It can be done very successfully...it just takes foresight, open minded thinking, fresh ideas and long term planning...in other words, not gonna happen in Edmonton.
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