gulfstream650
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Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:14 am

A mistake?

According to Flightradar24 (http://twitter.com/#!/flightradar24) on Twitter:

Squawk 7500 (hijack). F-GSQE (Air France B773) from Paris to Hong Kong

http://t.co/cBEdXLmo
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LGWflyer
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:17 am

Oh dear I hope this news is false! I see quite a few emergencies everyday shown on radar24, not sure if they are real or not...
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wilco737
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:21 am

Quoting Gulfstream650 (Thread starter):

My internet connection here is too slow to follow flightradar. Please keep us updated. I hope it is a mistake.

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 1):
I see quite a few emergencies everyday shown on radar24, not sure if they are real or not...

I followed a few and could read what happened next day on avherald.com  

wilco737
  
 
LGWflyer
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:24 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
I followed a few and could read what happened next day on avherald.com

Ahh right I see.
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flyorski
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:36 am

I hope its just a mistake.
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YVRFlyer
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:38 am

Prayers for everyone's safety!    I hope it's all just an error in Flightradar and things get sorted out soon. Russia is probably the worst place to accidentally squawk 7500. The russians understandably tend to err on the side of pre-emptive action when it comes to these things.
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sandyb123
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:45 am

She's squaking 7566 according to FR24. Is anything 75XX hyjacking?

Hopefully a mistake (either by the pilot or notorious FR24) and all is ok.

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wilco737
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:53 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 6):
She's squaking 7566 according to FR24. Is anything 75XX hyjacking?

No, only 7500 is hi-jack code...

Some stations even assign you a code which is close to the emergency code, like 7732 or something like that. But that is perfectly normal. Only 7700 is emergency. 7600 is com failure and 7500 hi-jack.

wilco737
  
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:46 am

Good practice to dial in your squawk from right to left, so you don't accidentally dial in "7500" while on the way to "7566".
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:47 am

The two planes behind it are squawking 7565 and 7567. Totally normal although ATC 'should' try not to assign any code that begins with 75, 76 or 77, especially as 7500, 7600 or 7700 could be momentarily set as the pilot slowly dials the actual transponder code into the 'box'. This in turn triggers an alarm in their ATC systems.
 
BMI727
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:21 am

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 9):
especially as 7500, 7600 or 7700 could be momentarily set as the pilot slowly dials the actual transponder code into the 'box'. This in turn triggers an alarm in their ATC systems.

I thought modern transponder systems made sure this is no longer possible.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
sstsomeday
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:40 am

Quoting YVRFlyer (Reply 5):
The russians understandably tend to err on the side of pre-emptive action when it comes to these things.

Why understandably?
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risingsunfitnes
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:30 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 11):
Why understandably?

I guess what YVRFlyer refers to, is the tendances of some countries shooting from the hip. Rightly or wrongly... KAL 007 comes to mind.
 
Airvan00
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:39 am

Quoting risingsunfitnes (Reply 12):
KAL 007 comes to mind.

KAL 007 inadvertently strayed into Prohibited airspace at the time of a missile launch. I think its a little unfair to ascribe the tendencies of the Soviet Union onto present day Russia.
 
risingsunfitnes
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:00 am

Airvan00.... I think you're missing the point i'm making. Whether its the Soviet Union, or Russia, now, or whichever country... some act before they think... I'm not making judgments, was only passing comment.

Now, can someone please explain how, hopefully! the transponder was on the wrong frequency? Does this occur often ?
 
WestJet747
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:18 am

The flight hasn't seemed to have deviated from its flight path whatsoever. Also, if it were a legitimate hijacking then there surely would have been reports of it by now, of which there are none (that I could find anyway).

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 7):
Some stations even assign you a code which is close to the emergency code, like 7732 or something like that. But that is perfectly normal. Only 7700 is emergency. 7600 is com failure and 7500 hi-jack.
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 9):

     


Regardless, I've got my fingers crossed for a safe and uneventful landing in HKG!  
Flying refined.
 
goldorak
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:25 am

On AF website, the flight is announced to be 5 min early in HKG. It's surely a mistake on flightradar ?
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:56 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 9):
especially as 7500, 7600 or 7700 could be momentarily set as the pilot slowly dials the actual transponder code into the 'box'. This in turn triggers an alarm in their ATC systems.

I thought modern transponder systems made sure this is no longer possible.

Not sure to be honest but I don't see how unless there is a time delay built in before it transmits any new code it sees. If you have 0000 set and you slowly set each digit one by one, i.e. 7000 then 7500 then 7560 then 7566, you do momentarily have 7500 tuned. Unless your transponder has a button number pad instead of one with dials (like some of our planes)
 
BMI727
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:00 am

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 17):
Unless your transponder has a button number pad instead of one with dials (like some of our planes)

Yeah, I thought that was pretty much the standard these days. Obviously there are still some older planes that would have the dial (also more dramatic for movies) but I was under the impression that the accidental 7700 or 7500 was a problem that would soon be a non-issue.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:05 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 17):
Unless your transponder has a button number pad instead of one with dials (like some of our planes)

Yeah, I thought that was pretty much the standard these days. Obviously there are still some older planes that would have the dial (also more dramatic for movies) but I was under the impression that the accidental 7700 or 7500 was a problem that would soon be a non-issue.

Actually it is more of a brand issue. Our older 777s have the number pads but the new ERs all have the dials as we changed brand/model of transponder for the ERs!
 
flyingbird
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:56 am

Flightradar24 is not making up squawk codes. 7500 was transmitted for a short moment. THe reason for that was probably a pilot error.
 
wilco737
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:51 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 8):
Good practice to dial in your squawk from right to left, so you don't accidentally dial in "7500" while on the way to "7566".

Cannot do that. I can only punch in the numbers, from left to right. So when someone gives me the code 7704, I have to enter '7' then '7' then '0' and then be careful and use the '4'...

We pilots can make mistakes. But it looks like it was found out quickly and the flight continued normally.

wilco737
  
 
sscaf001
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:52 am

CDG 23:30 ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE
CDG 23:30 LEFT THE GATE
CDG 23:48 TOOK OFF
HKG 16:54 ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL
HKG 16:48 AIRCRAFT LANDED
 
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TripleDelta
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:01 am

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 17):
Not sure to be honest but I don't see how unless there is a time delay built in before it transmits any new code it sees. If you have 0000 set and you slowly set each digit one by one, i.e. 7000 then 7500 then 7560 then 7566, you do momentarily have 7500 tuned. Unless your transponder has a button number pad instead of one with dials (like some of our planes)

Don't know whether it is applicable on transport aircraft transponders (I could foresee a complication or two), but on light aircraft we were always taught to momentarily set the transponder to standby, dial in the new code and the return it to A or C mode. There were quite a few occasions when pilots had received something in the 77xx range and had started dialing it in from the first digit back - causing the ATC system to raise an alarm and generally cause a fuss  .
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26point2
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:58 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 8):
Good practice to dial in your squawk from right to left, so you don't accidentally dial in "7500" while on the way to "7566".

2 alternate "safe" methods: "Tune" code into FMS then send to Transponder, or set Transponder to STBY while tuning.
 
cschleic
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:10 pm

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 24):
2 alternate "safe" methods: "Tune" code into FMS then send to Transponder, or set Transponder to STBY while tuning.

I used to do this in light planes, then once had ATC ask me why I turned off the transponder or if it malfunctioned. They then waited until it recycled before letting me change course. Fortunately, I've never been assigned a code beginning with 7.
 
JHCRJ700
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:51 pm

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 11):
Quoting YVRFlyer (Reply 5):
The russians understandably tend to err on the side of pre-emptive action when it comes to these things.

Why understandably?

And so it begins.......
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fcogafa
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:34 pm

Is there going to be a thread started every time a pilot selects the wrong SSR?
 
wilco737
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:46 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 27):
Is there going to be a thread started every time a pilot selects the wrong SSR?

Yes, because we pilots are not allowed to make a mistake. But if it happens, the world has to know about it  

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SuseJ772
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:08 pm

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 23):
Don't know whether it is applicable on transport aircraft transponders (I could foresee a complication or two), but on light aircraft we were always taught to momentarily set the transponder to standby, dial in the new code and the return it to A or C mode.

I was never taught that and I don't think the ATC people I have dealt with would like it if I turned off my transponder in order to input a new code. For this reason...

Quoting cschleic (Reply 25):
I used to do this in light planes, then once had ATC ask me why I turned off the transponder or if it malfunctioned. They then waited until it recycled before letting me change course. Fortunately, I've never been assigned a code beginning with 7.
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readytotaxi
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:32 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 28):
Yes, because we pilots are not allowed to make a mistake. But if it happens, the world has to know about it

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tb727
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:08 pm

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 29):
I was never taught that and I don't think the ATC people I have dealt with would like it if I turned off my transponder in order to input a new code. For this reason...

I always do it, I was actually taught it when I moved out of light a/c. I was told you weren't flipping through all kinds of codes that way. Sure you are going through multiple codes for a quick moment, you are also in standby for a quick moment, I guess it doesn't really matter. I mainly do it as a good way to swap transponders in flight to make sure they are both working even though I tend to do it every leg.
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TripleDelta
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:12 pm

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 29):
I was never taught that and I don't think the ATC people I have dealt with would like it if I turned off my transponder in order to input a new code. For this reason...

As far as Croatia goes, this method is known to ATC and generally accepted for light aircraft flights (especially VFR - these are not handled by area centers, but by various FICs. VFR squawks are mostly used just to let ATC know they're there - so a short "interruption of service" is not a big deal, especially when there's the primary radar return as backup).

If I remember correctly - though my memory is a bit shaky at the moment - I think it was even an ATC instructor (who was a professor at my university ATC course) who told me that if it is not possible to dial a 77xx, 76xx or 75xx code from back to front, we should set the transponder to standby, set the new code and return it to A/C mode. Something to do with the ATC system overreacting when its sees a code starting with 77, 76 or 75...

EDIT: typos.

[Edited 2011-09-27 15:15:07]
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pliersinsight
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:42 pm

Quoting tb727 (Reply 31):
Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 29):I was never taught that and I don't think the ATC people I have dealt with would like it if I turned off my transponder in order to input a new code. For this reason...I always do it, I was actually taught it when I moved out of light a/c. I was told you weren't flipping through all kinds of codes that way. Sure you are going through multiple codes for a quick moment, you are also in standby for a quick moment, I guess it doesn't really matter. I mainly do it as a good way to swap transponders in flight to make sure they are both working even though I tend to do it every leg.

Wouldn't switching to standby take you out of the protection of TCAS or TIS systems.....? I'm not so sure switching the transponder to standby is a safe move in flight. What if you forgot to switch it back?
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:05 pm

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 24):
Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 8):
Good practice to dial in your squawk from right to left, so you don't accidentally dial in "7500" while on the way to "7566".

2 alternate "safe" methods: "Tune" code into FMS then send to Transponder, or set Transponder to STBY while tuning.

Not something we do as part of our ops. Not sure why though.
 
spudsmac
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:14 pm

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 24):
Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 8):
Good practice to dial in your squawk from right to left, so you don't accidentally dial in "7500" while on the way to "7566".

2 alternate "safe" methods: "Tune" code into FMS then send to Transponder, or set Transponder to STBY while tuning.

I do the same thing. STBY, set code, back to ALT.
 
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tb727
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RE: Fightradar24: AF 777 Squawks 7500 (Hijack) CDG-HKG

Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:20 am

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 33):
Wouldn't switching to standby take you out of the protection of TCAS or TIS systems.....? I'm not so sure switching the transponder to standby is a safe move in flight. What if you forgot to switch it back?

Well you don't forget and if you do it wouldn't be long before they tell you to check to make sure it is on. It's literally a momentary thing, it took longer to read that sentence than do the action. Changing a transponder code isn't the most complicated thing a pilot does during their day.
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