coffeepilot
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Will WN Start CUN Service?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:53 pm

I think WN could do a lot to CUN, I think MSY would be a great airport to start service there with, due to the proximity and FIS already on the field. Any thoughts?
 
gizmonc
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:17 pm

WN already has service via ATL to CUN via AirTran. Not sure of any service from other cities at this time but my thoughts perhaps DEN, HOU, MDW or BWI when WN upgrades their computer system and gets the 737-800's.
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:32 pm

MSY makes little to no sense. Proximity isn't really a legitimate factor, considering neither HOU nor ATL are that much farther, and both have tremendously higher amounts of feed. FIS isn't either, most airports WN would consider flying from have them.

Sorry.

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Cameron
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SkyPriorityDTW
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:32 pm

WN type of service would definitely work on a CUN route. Most, if not all, on the flight are tourists and it isn't a "hard-sell" route. A lot of travelers are under the theory that Southwest is the "all-American carrier" because of it's low-fare and simple service. They would definitely be able to make this route viable in numerous markets. Although AirTran operates the route from ATL, I believe WN service would give that route more appeal to the traveler. Plus, if WN could tackle the challenge of making international traveling easier (which I'm sure they can and will) then they get the customer's right there!

I will say it's always funny watching the people arrive from CUN at DTW walking off with flip flops and shorts when it's sub-zero weather in Michigan :P Southwest, I'm taking, would attract this breed and much, much more  
Keep Climbing...
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:44 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 2):


MSY makes little to no sense. Proximity isn't really a legitimate factor, considering neither HOU nor ATL are that much farther, and both have tremendously higher amounts of feed. FIS isn't either, most airports WN would consider flying from have them.

Actually MSY does make sense given the nature of WN's scheduling. CUN could easily be a 10+ daily flight station using nearby US gateways and continuing on through the WN system. The MSY-CUN local traffic may not be that great, but utilizing equip say MSP-STL-MSY-CUN-MSY-STL-MSP or BOS-BWI-MSY-CUN-MSY-BWI-BOS fits in with WN's modus operandi plus there would be some connections available at MSY.

I have no idea what WN's international plans are, but CUN seems to be a natural for them and having large operations at HOU/MSY/ATL/TPA/MCO etc would certainly allow them to feed traffic to the geographically closest markets from CUN.

It will be interesting to see how WN's int'l ops pan out.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
bjorn14
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:05 pm

Is HOU building an FIS facility?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
nomorerjs
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:34 am

HOU does not have FIS. MSY, MDW, and BWI make sense in WN's model. Heck, they could do what DL tried a while ago and add AUS, SAT, etc. and link in to DAL, HOU, and the west coast.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:58 am

Quoting SkyPriorityDTW (Reply 3):
Plus, if WN could tackle the challenge of making international traveling easier

 

How would they do that? Pax would still have to go through security, customs, and immigration on both sides. Nothing about WN would make intl travel "easier" than flying on the legacy carriers.

Quoting SkyPriorityDTW (Reply 3):
A lot of travelers are under the theory that Southwest is the "all-American carrier" because of it's low-fare

And those travelers are what I like to call fools. Have you seen many of WN's fares?
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
steex
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:07 am

If WN makes the decision to expand CUN service, I think MSY actually has a pretty decent chance as a non-stop destination since it would probably be the most sensible station for tying into both DAL and HOU, neither of which would currently be eligible for international service. Both SAT and AUS would also be possibilities, with both being slightly shorter for HOU routings and longer for DAL. As previously noted, MSY would also be a natural point for CUN connections to stations like DEN, STL, MDW, and BNA (to name a few).
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:11 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 5):
Is HOU building an FIS facility?
Quoting nomoreRJs (Reply 6):
HOU does not have FIS

I am probably mistaken, however I seem to recall reading somewhere that there are plans to add an FIS facility at HOU in the near future, is this true? If so I don't think the folks at IAH would be too happy.
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:40 am

I think that before planning what international cities to fly to WN would be better off upgrading their reservation system to handle international flying. It's inevitable that they will do this kind of flying one day, so start making preparations now.

I think they would do best by writing their own new system instead of patching the old Cowboy system, or what's left of it. But come to think of it when they acquired Cowboy from BN, wasn't it already set up for international flying since BN did quite a bit of that?

It may be cheaper to buy a system from a defunct airline than to develop their own.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
irish
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:03 am

What about PHX, LAX, MCO, and TPA?
 
bjorn14
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:23 am

Quoting irish (Reply 11):
What about PHX,

Arizonans go to PPE for their beach time. 
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:27 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 12):
Arizonans go to PPE for their beach time.

Actually more of us Arizonans go to San Diego.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:25 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 8):
I think MSY actually has a pretty decent chance as a non-stop destination since it would probably be the most sensible station for tying into both DAL and HOU, neither of which would currently be eligible for international service.

I for one would not fly from HOU-MSY-CUN when I can get on a CO jet from IAH-CUN and be there in 1:45 at the most. Likewise, wouldn't do the DAL-MSY-CUN route when you can get the DFW-CUN flights.

But that's just me.  
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
exFATboy
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:22 pm

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 9):
I seem to recall reading somewhere that there are plans to add an FIS facility at HOU in the near future, is this true? If so I don't think the folks at IAH would be too happy.

By "folks", do you mean the IAH management? IAH and HOU are owned by the same agency - Houston Airport System - so that's not an issue. Other carriers may not be happy, true.

As for DAL, the "Five-Party Agreement" that forms the basis for the end of the Wright Amendment calls for direct international flights to operate only out of DFW (Paragraph 2).
 
jfritz
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:16 pm

Byrdluvs747 is right. Thanks to WN and US, the beach is 50 minutes away via PHX-SAN. But US does PHX-CUN and it would be nice to see WN get into these types of markets down here out of PHX and give US a run for their money.
 
nutsaboutplanes
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:22 pm

Quoting jfritz (Reply 16):
Byrdluvs747 is right. Thanks to WN and US, the beach is 50 minutes away via PHX-SAN. But US does PHX-CUN and it would be nice to see WN get into these types of markets down here out of PHX and give US a run for their money.

The city would have to do something with that horrible excuse for an international terminal.....it is maxed out. Between BA, WS and US, it is out of control already......its worse than SEA.
American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
 
bjorn14
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:41 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 13):
Actually more of us Arizonans go to San Diego.
Quoting jfritz (Reply 16):
Byrdluvs747 is right. Thanks to WN and US, the beach is 50 minutes away via PHX-SAN. But US does PHX-CUN and it would be nice to see WN get into these types of markets down here out of PHX and give US a run for their money.

I see from the Mexican thread that 185K Phoenicians like SJD too. (Top 25 US-MX city pair)
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
Mexicana757
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:00 pm

Quoting GizmoNC (Reply 1):
Not sure of any service from other cities at this time but my thoughts perhaps DEN, HOU, MDW or BWI
Quoting nomoreRJs (Reply 6):
MSY, MDW, and BWI make sense in WN's model

For MDW-CUN to work WN would have to get U5's route authority. Right now WN would be locked out of operating Chicago-CUN flights, unless it was charter. American, United, and USA3000 hold the route authority to fly Chicago-Cancun. But with U5 closing shop sometime next year it gives WN/FL a chance to request the route. In the past the only other airline that was interested in operating the route was F9 who lost to U5 for the route.
 
steex
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:55 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 14):
I for one would not fly from HOU-MSY-CUN when I can get on a CO jet from IAH-CUN and be there in 1:45 at the most. Likewise, wouldn't do the DAL-MSY-CUN route when you can get the DFW-CUN flights.

But that's just me.

Fair point, but that likely means you also wouldn't fly DAL-STL-MDW when you could fly DFW-ORD non-stop. Obviously plenty of other people would, though.  
 
F9Fan
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:58 pm

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 19):
Quoting GizmoNC (Reply 1): Not sure of any service from other cities at this time but my thoughts perhaps DEN, HOU, MDW or BWIQuoting nomoreRJs (Reply 6): MSY, MDW, and BWI make sense in WN's model
For MDW-CUN to work WN would have to get U5's route authority. Right now WN would be locked out of operating Chicago-CUN flights, unless it was charter. American, United, and USA3000 hold the route authority to fly Chicago-Cancun. But with U5 closing shop sometime next year it gives WN/FL a chance to request the route. In the past the only other airline that was interested in operating the route was F9 who lost to U5 for the route.

I think DEN is out, too because F9 and UA both serve that route and, IIRC, Mexico restricts any Mexican-U.S. routes to two airlines per city pair. Besides, Isn't there supposed to be a codeshare with Volaris and WN to handle trans-border flights?
 
Mexicana757
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:43 am

Quoting F9Fan (Reply 21):
I think DEN is out, too because F9 and UA both serve that route and, IIRC, Mexico restricts any Mexican-U.S. routes to two airlines per city pair.

The beach resort cities and some other cities like GDL and MTY up to three airlines from each side can operate on each route. For DEN-CUN from the U.S. side WN/FL can still apply since only two airlines operate on the route.

Southwest and Volaris do have a 'codeshare' agreement where each airline can sell each others tickets on their websites. But its far from being a true codeshare where you would see either airline codeshare flight numbers being placed on each airlines flights. At the moment Volaris hasn't started flying to any U.S. cities from CUN. Volaris hold's rights to fly CUN-LAX, MDW and NYC. I guess Volaris can help WN out where they can't connect to CUN from one of their focus cities.
 
gizmonc
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:52 am

TWA used to run a flight JFK MSY MEX MSY JFK. I was a STL Service Manager and I deadheaded to MSY many times to meet the JFK crew and fly the MSY-MEX leg. The loads were not good on a good day we might have 40-50 pax. It was flown with a MD80. If my memory is right it was a subsized flight MSY MEX but it did not last long due to the low pax loads. MSY has a great custom hall easy in and out.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:47 am

I think WN will add to CUN or at least add it more cities than ATL. MCO, HOU, FLL might make sense for connections

REMEMBER though in this discussion CUN is still not a city sold yet on southwest.com or thru the Southwests 800 number. Cancun shows up on the pulldown menu but they are not selling tickets on airtran. The Southwest effect has not hit CUN yet at all but i bet its a market that they do excellent on in the future.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 14):
I for one would not fly from HOU-MSY-CUN when I can get on a CO jet from IAH-CUN and be there in 1:45 at the most. Likewise, wouldn't do the DAL-MSY-CUN route when you can get the DFW-CUN flights.

But that's just me.  

That is just you. LOL   i think the vast vast majority of CUN travelers are extremely price sensitive and don't even consider the other factors most of the time

CUN is the definition of a leisure market and most people are in groups so the savings per ticket are multiplied. I bet most families would pick WN if the ticket was 2 dollars cheaper each, no change fees, and 2 free pieces of luggage is just gravy. WN has done a fantastic job of reminding infrequent fliers that they are "the cheapest" airline, no change fee, and free luggage. CUN is the market where i think the WN ads of free luggage, no change fees, and "assumed always lower in price" will work very well. I can see WN doing very well on CUN
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
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RE: Will WN Start CUN Service?

Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:20 pm

Quoting F9Fan (Reply 21):
I think DEN is out, too because F9 and UA both serve that route and, IIRC, Mexico restricts any Mexican-U.S. routes to two airlines per city pair.

Some routes allow three airlines - as mentioned above, American, United, and USA3000 all hold Chicago-Cancun authority. According to this Aviation Week article, there are 14 Mexican cities that can have three airlines from each country flying between them.

Quoting F9Fan (Reply 21):
Besides, Isn't there supposed to be a codeshare with Volaris and WN to handle trans-border flights?

The Volaris-Southwest partnership is in place, with connections to Cancun through Guadalajara, according to WN's website. So a Southwest customer would have to connect between Southwest and Volaris in a city served by both (LAX, MDW, OAK, SAN, SJC), then connect again at GDL.

I believe the partnership is only an interline agreement, not a full-blown codeshare.

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