N14AZ
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LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:14 pm

Just read this on aero.de - LH

Quote:
Die Deutsche Lufthansa stockt ihre Bestellung im Programm Airbus A380 um zwei auf 17 Flugzeuge auf. Der Aufsichtsrat des größten europäischen Airlinekonzerns gab am Donnerstag zudem grünes Licht für die Bestellung einer weiteren A330-300 sowie von vier A320 und fünf Embraer E195. Die Flugzeuge im Listenpreis von etwa einer Milliarde Euro sollen entweder aus liquiden Mitteln oder extern finanziert werden, erklärte der Konzern in seiner Ankündigung.

"Die moderate Erweiterung der Lufthansa Passageflotte dient vor allem der Absicherung des kurzfristigen Bedarfes bei Modernisierung und Konsolidierung der Europaflotte, bis zur Verfügbarkeit neuer Flugzeugtechnologien", sagte Lufthansa Vorstandschef Christoph Franz. "Gleichzeitig sichert die Ergänzungsbestellung von Airbus A380 und A330 unsere mittelfristige Langstreckenentwicklung."

Will add some details later on.

Edit:
Here is the link to the source (unfortunately only in German): http://www.aero.de/news-13585/Luftha...tockt-Airbus-A380-Auftrag-auf.html

They intend to increase the number of firm orders from currently 15 to 17.

[Edited 2011-09-29 07:17:08]
 
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Focker
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:21 pm

Great news! Although only 2 additional A380's it does show LH is really happy with their first frames, and not just making good press.
 
art
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:23 pm

Congratulations to Airbus on producing a design that in-service figures show the customer is worth re-ordering. Wonder how many more existing customers will follow suit soon to avoid delays due to low production levels.
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:25 pm

Not forget to mention 1 addtl A330-300, 4 A320 and 5 Embraer 195, financing mainly from cash flow with some external financing. Delivery or the A380 + 330 in 2014, the A320 in 2013 and 2014 and the E195 in 2012 and 2013.

All in all a short term addition to the fleets on top of the deliveries scheduled already.
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lightsaber
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:25 pm

Good news. Having a subfleet of 17 is the minimum I consider economical (for operation out of *one* hub).

Quoting Focker (Reply 1):
Although only 2 additional A380's it does show LH is really happy with their first frames, and not just making good press.

  

LH is happy... I just wish they had been a little happier (say 5 to 7 frames...)

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flyAUA
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:26 pm

Woohooo 

Great news! I love the way Lufthansa has configured all three of its A380 cabins. And their business product on this aircraft is truly marvellous! They must be happy with it if they have decided they will be wanting more of them after all   

Further down in the article there is also mention of another A333, four A320, and five E195!
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:29 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
Not forget to mention 1 addtl A330-300, 4 A320 and 5 Embraer 195, financing mainly from cash flow with some external financing. Delivery or the A380 + 330 in 2014, the A320 in 2013 and 2014 and the E195 in 2012 and 2013.

Delivery of the A380's in 2014 is rather soon. Would that be the slots QF left open by deferring their deliveries?
 
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robffm2
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:33 pm

And now also confirmed on Lufthansa webpage (in English):
http://presse.lufthansa.com/en/news-...011/september/29/article/2010.html
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:33 pm

Makes sense, does it? Building up their fleet to 17 by 2014 is really surprising. that leaves 3 options open while the 747-9i come in during that time as well.

However, the retirement of some 744s which was recently discussed makes more sense now. In addition to the hours these ladies had accumulated of course.

 
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Extra300
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:35 pm

I did expect LH to firm up all 5 options for a388, but 2 is better than none.
 
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:37 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
Good news. Having a subfleet of 17 is the minimum I consider economical (for operation out of *one* hub).

I don't know if you're correct but I fully agree! Please send an email to Air France, Asiana, China Southern, Korean Air, Qatar Airways and Thai Airways informing them of this important fact.  

OK
, so 2 extra isn't a whole lot but every one counts and it's important because it shows that LH is very satisfied with their A380 babies. I'm confident LH will order more in the future but in this climate they are wisely being prudent with their orders.



[Edited 2011-09-29 07:56:05]
 
flyAUA
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:38 pm

Quoting Extra300 (Reply 9):
I did expect LH to firm up all 5 options for a388, but 2 is better than none.

Most of us did, but hard times are coming. Just last week Lufthansa announced a profit warning to the board. I guess they would rather play it safe than sorry during these volatile times.
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columba
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:39 pm

Apart from the A380 order one thought about the rest of the order LH must see no thread in the 787/A350 orders from other airlines as they continue to buy one A330 after another....really boring after awhile especially with this tiny little trend engines also they seem to love the EJet.
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N14AZ
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:40 pm

Total number of orders now, including these two additional airframes: 238
already delivered: 56
Backlog: 182
 
scouseflyer
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:41 pm

Quoting Focker (Reply 6):
Delivery of the A380's in 2014 is rather soon. Would that be the slots QF left open by deferring their deliveries?

Sounds about right to me, the cancellation (ILFC) and the two "uncertain" orders (VS and IT) don't seem to have any set deliveries scheduled in as they were subject to a lot of deferrals already. I wonder if this is an opportunistic order to take advantage of this opening and there's still a likelehood of a bunch of further A380 orders in the future for LH?
 
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:41 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
while the 747-9i come in during that time as well.

The what?   
 
flyAUA
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:43 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 14):
Sounds about right to me, the cancellation (ILFC) and the two "uncertain" orders (VS and IT) don't seem to have any set deliveries scheduled in as they were subject to a lot of deferrals already. I wonder if this is an opportunistic order to take advantage of this opening and there's still a likelehood of a bunch of further A380 orders in the future for LH?

I am quite optimistic about that in the future. They will want to be well equipped against the competition *cough* emirates *cough* once they have found ways to work around "the recession"  
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scouseflyer
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:45 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 13):
Total number of orders now, including these two additional airframes: 238
already delivered: 56
Backlog: 182

with net orders for this year creeping up to +4.

There's still a probability that we'll see HK and QR order a good number each before the end of the year and EK hasn't bought for a while so could order a few more.
 
flyAUA
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:49 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 17):
There's still a probability that we'll see HK and QR order a good number each before the end of the year and EK hasn't bought for a while so could order a few more.

Tim Clarke stated he would be ordering more 77? and 388 about a week or two ago, so yes, I also see this happening  
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atnight
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:55 pm

From what I see, this is a "quick no brainer" add-on order, which not only shows that LH really likes the airplane, but because is such success for them, they would rather use the slots available now than allow someone else to take them and LH missing the opportunity. Plus it appears that they are seeing that since the airplane has become so popular for passengers, LH sees an threat from other A380 operators and to sustain and grow in competitive markets, the A380 is the only option to go... this kinda proofs the saying "it takes a A380 to compete with a A380"... This does not mean they are done with the A380 as far as future orders, this is just a good opportunity to add what they are seeing a great airplane with great success in the present and immediate future..... Congrats to LH and Airbus....
B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
 
wolbo
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:58 pm

You would expect this to be a conversion of 2 of the 5 A380 options that LH held but neither the LH or Airbus press releases mention this explicitly. So perhaps it's possible LH kept their 5 options and this was a separate 'grab-the-opportunity' order?
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:01 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 15):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
while the 747-9i come in during that time as well.

The what?

Did you miss the latest news?   Now, seriously, you know it's a typing error. My answer: so what.
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baroque
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:49 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):
Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 15):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
while the 747-9i come in during that time as well.

The what?

Did you miss the latest news? Now, seriously, you know it's a typing error. My answer: so what.

Nah, it is the Boeing answer to the shock rapid development of the 389, the sales folk just cannot sell now if there is not a "9" at the end of the model number.

Meanwhile back in the real world, interesting addition. This is a contrast to the QF delay for frames, although QF did increase its initial order a long while ago. But both airlines now have some experience of operations. So is QF that much more pressed for funds to expand first with 7verylate7s and then A320NEOs or are the priorities at QF different from those at LH?
 
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:35 pm

Quoting wolbo (Reply 10):
Please send an email to Air France, Asiana, China Southern, Korean Air, Qatar Airways and Thai Airways informing them of this important fact.

Ok.    I'm sure they'll listen to me telling them they need to order quite a few more of their VLA aircraft.  

Seriously, reading HB-IWC's various excellent analysis on EK, KLM, AA (others?) I have reached the opinion that it takes 17 airframes to make up an economical sub-fleet. Note: That is my opinion based on another a.nutter's analysis.  

My personal favorite of his analysis:
Emirates At DXB - Ultimate Operational Analysis (by HB-IWC Sep 27 2010 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting flyAUA (Reply 18):
Tim Clarke stated he would be ordering more 77? and 388 about a week or two ago, so yes, I also see this happening

I'm glad to see the Betty Ford clinic for compulsive airframe purchasing released Tim.   

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PanHAM
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:38 pm

I guess that QF is much more pressed by the Gulf carriers and to a lesser extend by SQ than LH is. The geographical position of Australia and the fact that they will have to go down from 3 daily to LHR to just 1 is not an advantage either.

LH has the benefit of operating 2 major hubs in Germany, one being almost at the geographic and demographic center of Europe, and the other, MUC, not too far away. At least one has growth potential and MUC should get the third runway as well On top of that, flexibility is a key factor in the company.
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Extra300
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:55 pm

Do you guys believe this is a start of top ups for the A380? I could see SQ, AF and maybe BA firm up a few options.
 
JU068
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:13 pm

Sorry for being off topic but couldn't find anything online. Could someone tell me when is the terminal extension opening in Frankfurt?
 
flyAUA
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:19 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 26):

If you mean the 4th Runway, the AIP Ammendment shows it operational from 20th October 2011
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JU068
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:35 pm

Quoting flyAUA (Reply 27):
If you mean the 4th Runway, the AIP Ammendment shows it operational from 20th October 2011

Oh not the runway, I managed to find information on that but when I was in Frankfurt the last time there was a terminal being built. I think it was called 1B, not quite sure.
 
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:20 pm

Quoting flyAUA (Reply 18):
Tim Clarke stated he would be ordering more 77? and 388 about a week or two ago

I'm glad he has that much cash. Is he trying to outdo John Travolta? 
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na
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:41 pm

Nice to hear. Any VLA more is welcome.

[Edited 2011-09-29 12:22:04 by srbmod]
 
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lightsaber
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting Extra300 (Reply 25):
Do you guys believe this is a start of top ups for the A380?

Yes and no. To be blunt, Airbus must put A380s into customer fleets for most to consider a 'top off' order. KE and CZ are potentially two very important customers for top off orders. For IB, BA will need their allotment and a top off before I see them flying the type (or BA flying it for them...).

I suspect it will be two to three years before we see significant top off orders. Mostly due to the economy.

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ceo@afg
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:25 pm

The new terminal 1A+ in FRA will open summer 2012. Very informative read with loads of pictures of the ongoing construction at FRA here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=799020
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BrouAviation
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:26 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 17):

There's still a probability that we'll see HK and QR order a good number each before the end of the year and EK hasn't bought for a while so could order a few more.

They are most likely waiting for the Dubai Airshow to make their announcements.
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Semaex
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:11 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Thread starter):
Die moderate Erweiterung der Lufthansa Passageflotte

I lolled at this statement. Calling 1bln € spent on aircraft is hardly "moderate"  
Quoting columba (Reply 12):
also they seem to love the EJet.

And I admit I do too. Love it!

Quoting ju068 (Reply 26):
Sorry for being off topic but couldn't find anything online. Could someone tell me when is the terminal extension opening in Frankfurt?

If you mean A+, then it's scheduled for mid-2012. If you mean T3, it's 2017 at the earliest.

Quoting flyAUA (Reply 27):

If you mean the 4th Runway, the AIP Ammendment shows it operational from 20th October 2011

In fact the first landing will be on the 21st October. But you are right about it being operational  


How lovely to see LH ordering a bunch of planes. It could be a signal to the market that, just because someone is yelling "recession" it does not need to be true. Lufthansa Stock is up 2.5% (compared to DAX30 +1.1).
My conclusion? If Lufthansa is (deciding on) buying planes in times of economic downturn, it can hardly be as bad as the media wants us to believe. Clear skies ahead in the aviation business.
I might also interpret way too much into this, feel free to judge...
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747400sp
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:34 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):
My answer: so what.






I like your style!    Sometimes people are so stuck up here, that want to correct every little thing in these topic.
 
goldorak
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:39 pm

Quoting Extra300 (Reply 25):

Do you guys believe this is a start of top ups for the A380? I could see SQ, AF and maybe BA firm up a few options.

AF has already exercised two options. But I'd like to see them exercising some more  
 
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EPA001
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:22 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
LH is happy... I just wish they had been a little happier (say 5 to 7 frames...)

Well, if they would repeat this move 3-4 times, they are close to the number you desired.  .

Quoting wolbo (Reply 10):
I don't know if you're correct but I fully agree! Please send an email to Air France, Asiana, China Southern, Korean Air, Qatar Airways and Thai Airways informing them of this important fact. 

I am sure they will listen. So another 50 A380 orders by the end of the year.  
Quoting na (Reply 30):
Nice to hear. Any VLA more is welcome.

It sure is.   
 
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lightsaber
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:21 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 37):
Well, if they would repeat this move 3-4 times, they are close to the number you desired.

They would have to do something different... only 3 more A388 options.  
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 37):
I am sure they will listen. So another 50 A380 orders by the end of the year.

   Seriously, I truly believe that low A388 production rates, a tight backlog to existing customers, and delivery slots far out in the future are limiting new customers acquiring the type. So besides 'top off' orders, I think Airbus is losing out on additional customers... who would be likely to make top off orders.   

Lightsaber
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robffm2
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:50 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 38):

They would have to do something different... only 3 more A388 options.

I don't think Lufthansa has exercised two options. This not mentioned in Lufthansa's nor in Airbus' press release.

But Reuters points into another direction:
The airline, already Europe's largest customer for the 526-seater A380, was offered the additional planes at short notice, a spokesman said on Thursday.
 
United Airline
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:19 am

How many A380s did LH order? I mean firm+options
 
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:34 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 22):
So is QF that much more pressed for funds to expand first with 7verylate7s and then A320NEOs or are the priorities at QF different from those at LH?

Probably a combination of both.

Not exactly "pressed for funds" but perhaps concerned about how much money they would have to find in the market. Don't they have a bunch of 787's that are supposed to be arriving?

There is - or should be - a limit as to how deep anyone wants to dive into the well of debt, no matter how "good" the the debt, and the timing of their borrowing has changed with the 787 delays.

It is also clear that the airline Qantas planned to be is not the airline it is going to be, so yes, priorities may have changed a tad.

mariner
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JU068
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:09 am

Quoting CEO@AFG (Reply 32):
The new terminal 1A+ in FRA will open summer 2012. Very informative read with loads of pictures of the ongoing construction at FRA here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...99020
Quoting Semaex (Reply 34):
If you mean A+, then it's scheduled for mid-2012. If you mean T3, it's 2017 at the earliest.

Thanks a lot!
 
wilco737
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:41 am

Congrats to LH and to Airbus.

I talked to several A380 crews and they were all very happy with the performance and the working place itself.

The loads are good as well, so it looks like more 380s will join the fleet while more 744s will leave the fleet.

wilco737
  
 
na
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:56 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 40):
How many A380s did LH order? I mean firm+options

LH has ordered 17 A380s now, and holds 3 options. 8 A380s have been delivered, more are coming next yaer.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 34):
I lolled at this statement. Calling 1bln € spent on aircraft is hardly "moderate"

For LH its a moderate "inbetween" order.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 43):
I talked to several A380 crews and they were all very happy with the performance and the working place itself.

Happy and proud. Rightfully so. Once inside, anyone who will not acknowledge the A380 is a step above everything else currently flying doenst know what he´s saying or actually has never been aboard an A380.
 
flyAUA
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:58 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 40):
How many A380s did LH order? I mean firm+options

I think it was 15 on order and 5 further options. The 2 they signed for yesterday don't seem to be options, but rather an offer from airbus for some deferred frames, which lufthansa then decided to grab since they are happy with the superjumbo  
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wilco737
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:59 am

Quoting na (Reply 44):
Happy and proud. Rightfully so.

Yes, and they do many promotion flights. Hamburg Airportday, screnery flights around northern Germany, the trip across Europe, the trip across Germany. They show around and show off with their 380.

I hope they'll do it with the 748i as well, but I doubt it.

wilco737
  
 
na
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:12 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 46):
I hope they'll do it with the 748i as well, but I doubt it.

Actually I think they will. Not of the scale of the A380 of cause. They would miss an opportunity, and they are launch customer. Unless LH would get some A389s by 2020, what other great plane could join the fleet between the 748 and the 2020s? There is none.
 
hal9213
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:39 am

Quoting Semaex (Reply 34):
I lolled at this statement. Calling 1bln € spent on aircraft is hardly "moderate"

Na, they are just trying to adapt to the Emirates "style"  
Quoting wilco737 (Reply 43):
I talked to several A380 crews and they were all very happy with the performance and the working place itself.

Funny, I was talking to LH crew the other day, who told me, that everybody is trying to avoid the A380 training because of the rumors that most crew dont like it. Didnt ask about the reasons though, wether its the galley, destinations, number of pax to serve, or whatever.
Shows, that similar to pax there is also different opinion with crew.
It was the same at Emirates: Some hated the A380, some loved it. At EK however, once you do A380, you dont do any other aircraft type.
 
wilco737
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RE: LH Orders 2 More A 380

Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:47 am

Quoting hal9213 (Reply 48):
Funny, I was talking to LH crew the other day, who told me, that everybody is trying to avoid the A380 training because of the rumors that most crew dont like it. Didnt ask about the reasons though, wether its the galley, destinations, number of pax to serve, or whatever.

I only know about the crews on the 380 and they were happy. At least the ones I talked to. They only say: not many destinations which makes it rather boring. But airplane wise it is great they said.

wilco737
  

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