tayser
Topic Author
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:49 pm

Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed

Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:31 am

full media release here: http://www.minister.infrastructure.g...ses/2011/September/AA176_2011.aspx

Quote:
The Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Anthony Albanese today announced that Australian and Japanese airlines would now be able to offer direct flights between Australia and Tokyo's Haneda Airport under a landmark open skies agreement between Australia and Japan.

Key elements of the new arrangements include:

Daily flights between Haneda Airport and Australian airports
The removal of all capacity restrictions between all Australian and Japanese airports with the exception of Tokyo's Narita Airport
The removal of all capacity restrictions at Tokyo's Narita Airport form 2013.

Note this mentioned no capacity restrictions anymore, but what about slot restrictions - Australian airlines would still need to buy-in... correct? or?

Who's bigger at HND? JL or NH?

I suppose this now also makes it easier for Skymark to start their mooted MEL services.
 
qf002
Posts: 3067
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed

Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:04 am

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
Australian airlines would still need to buy-in... correct? or?

Yes, and vice versa (though the only issue airport in Australia would be SYD)

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
Who's bigger at HND? JL or NH?

My gut tells me NH, but I could be wrong.

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
I suppose this now also makes it easier for Skymark to start their mooted MEL services.

I guess, though I doubt it will happen. VA is more likely to jump on the route, otherwise I can see JQ running 3 weekly once they get their 787s...
 
ZuluAlpha
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:22 am

RE: Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed

Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:30 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 1):
My gut tells me NH, but I could be wrong.

Any Chances we will see NH birds flying to Australia ?
Flown on:_CRJ, CR& D10 DHT DH8, DH2, DH3, DH4, EMB, E45, E75, E90, F28 J32 M80 SH6 320, 32B, 332, 333, 380, 717, 732, 733, 734, 73H, 743, 744, 752 762, 763, 772, 77W
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed

Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:45 am

There won't be too much slot restrictions at NRT come 2013 because of the large release of slots.
HND is another story not because of slots but a restrictive operating window.

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
I suppose this now also makes it easier for Skymark to start their mooted MEL services

Until they get their A380s, all they have are 738s. Most likely not.

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 2):
Any Chances we will see NH birds flying to Australia ?

Possible, but they tend to stay away from largely leisure routes, which Japan-Australia market predominantly is.

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
Who's bigger at HND? JL or NH?

Movements: JL. Seat capacity: NH
 
trent1000
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:55 pm

RE: Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed

Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:28 am

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 2):
Any Chances we will see NH birds flying to Australia ?

Anything is possible, but still no (real) Star Alliance presence: i.e. HND/wherever is Aus can only offer limited direct sectors. Not everyone in Japan travels through Tokyo. JQ also serves KIX directly for OneWorld, while Fukuoka (FUK) in the deep south is served for Star A via SIN or BKK.
 
qf002
Posts: 3067
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed

Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:54 am

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 2):
Any Chances we will see NH birds flying to Australia ?

That I would like. I think there's profit to be made flying a daily 788 to either SYD or MEL.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 3):
HND is another story not because of slots but a restrictive operating window.

The operating window should actually work out pretty well for Australian airlines -- QF21/22 arrives at 6:30am and departs at 8:30pm so with some adjustment there would be little need to have wild departure times like some European/US carriers now have.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 3):
Possible, but they tend to stay away from largely leisure routes, which Japan-Australia market predominantly is.

Hmmm. Sure there is a lot of tourism on the route, but there's also plenty of business traffic. QF regularly schedules their premium-heavy 747s on SYD-NRT (80J plus 40W once you include the unsold F seats). I also think that a VA/NH partnership could make the route very successful... You also have to remember that the Australia-Japan tourist market is a very wealthy one, so fares are generally very high out of SYD (I'm looking at next Feb, which is generally a very quiet month and QF is getting almost $2,000 return in Y).
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed

Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:10 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 5):
The operating window should actually work out pretty well for Australian airlines -- QF21/22 arrives at 6:30am and departs at 8:30pm so with some adjustment there would be little need to have wild departure times like some European/US carriers now have.

There is a delicate balance here of best arrival and departure times from a passenger perspective and the penalty of having a very high capital cost aircraft sitting around doing nothing for an extended period.

The morning window is so short that unless you have an arrival reasonably close to its opeing it is virtually impossible to turrn a large aircraft round for a departure before it closes again at 07.00 am. So the choice is between something like tha BA flight that arrives very early (04.55 am) and also departs very early (06.25 am) with a short stopover (1.5 hrs) or the QF timing with a later arrival (06.30 am), 14 hours on the ground and a passenger-convenient departure (08.30 pm).

When you are flying a $200 million plus aircraft 14 unproductive hours carries quite a significant economic penalty. Hopefully this is at least partly balanced by the additional yields obtained from the more passenger-friendly timings.
 
ohsopc
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:22 pm

RE: Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed

Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:19 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 6):

Quoting qf002 (Reply 5):
The operating window should actually work out pretty well for Australian airlines -- QF21/22 arrives at 6:30am and departs at 8:30pm so with some adjustment there would be little need to have wild departure times like some European/US carriers now have.

There is a delicate balance here of best arrival and departure times from a passenger perspective and the penalty of having a very high capital cost aircraft sitting around doing nothing for an extended period.

The morning window is so short that unless you have an arrival reasonably close to its opeing it is virtually impossible to turrn a large aircraft round for a departure before it closes again at 07.00 am. So the choice is between something like tha BA flight that arrives very early (04.55 am) and also departs very early (06.25 am) with a short stopover (1.5 hrs) or the QF timing with a later arrival (06.30 am), 14 hours on the ground and a passenger-convenient departure (08.30 pm).

When you are flying a $200 million plus aircraft 14 unproductive hours carries quite a significant economic penalty. Hopefully this is at least partly balanced by the additional yields obtained from the more passenger-friendly timings.

I think they would go for a late arrival in to HND (22.00 hr) and an overnight departure (23.00hr) arriving in Australia in the morning.
 
qf002
Posts: 3067
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed

Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:22 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 6):
QF timing with a later arrival (06.30 am), 14 hours on the ground and a passenger-convenient departure (08.30 pm).

When you are flying a $200 million plus aircraft 14 unproductive hours carries quite a significant economic penalty. Hopefully this is at least partly balanced by the additional yields obtained from the more passenger-friendly timings.

That certainly is a serious consideration, but these timings seems to be working relatively well for QF thus far (they probably do mx work on the ground for the day as they do during extended layovers at other stations), and the timing wouldn't be such an issue for NH flying out of HND. It could be a factor for VA entering the market with limited aircraft though.
 
eaglefarm4
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:33 pm

RE: Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed

Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:30 pm

I can see Virgin and or Air Australia flying BNE-HND within 18 months.
tourismman
 
alangirvan
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 2:13 pm

RE: Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed

Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:18 pm

All Nippon have already been in Australia - one of the first international routes they operated, with 747-200s. They codeshared on the Ansett KIX-BNE-SYD services

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 817Dreamliiner, AirlineCritic, Bluebird191, cchan, Google [Bot], groundbird, hjulicher, RalXWB, VCy and 160 guests