GSTBA
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IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:45 pm

The following short report was published on the Wall Street Journal Website on Thursday

The board of Spanish airline Iberia is planning to approve Tuesday the launch of a low-cost air carrier for short and medium-haul flights, reports El Pais in its Thursday Internet edition, citing sources familiar with the operation.

Two days later, the board of International Consolidated Airlines Group SA (IAG.LN, IAG.MC), the company formed through the merger of Iberia and British Airways, will have to ratify the decision, the paper adds.

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Buyantukhaa
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:42 am

And Vueling? It seems they already have what they want, so what's the point?
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
vv701
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:52 am

Quoting buyantukhaa (Reply 1):
And Vueling? It seems they already have what they want, so what's the point?

My recollection - right or wrong - is that the IB interest in VY is a minority interest. That is they are the biggest shareholder but own - I think - 45 per cent of VY's equity. So perhaps they want an LCC that they control but VY's other shareholders are not willing to let them take a controlling interest.

But this is all guess work.
 
GSTBA
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:16 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 2):
My recollection - right or wrong - is that the IB interest in VY is a minority interest. That is they are the biggest shareholder but own - I think - 45 per cent of VY's equity. So perhaps they want an LCC that they control but VY's other shareholders are not willing to let them take a controlling interest.

You are correct IB only holds a minority stake in VY of 45.85%

From what I can gather from the El Pais article the board will announce the plans on the 4th. The new carrier will focus on short to medium haul routes from IB's base in MAD. As many as 37 A320 family aircraft will be transferred from the IB fleet to the new airline.
 
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downtown273
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:52 am

Quoting buyantukhaa (Reply 1):
And Vueling? It seems they already have what they want, so what's the point?

Exactly. Vueling first focused on BCN and IB dropped all mainline BCN flights (except MAD-BCN of course). Then, with the expansion, Vueling started to operate some of Iberia's MAD flights, for example MAD-AGP, MAD-VLC, etc. Fair point, they probably are cheaper to operate (crew costs) and they still serve as feeders as they codeshare VY/IB.

But now, if they create their own low cost for say, domestic flights, what's the point? They've already given their market to VY in many routes. So probably the new low-cost's biggest competitor will be Vueling - the airline they've been working on for the last few years.

I want to believe that there is some good strategy behind this and the routes might not overlap?
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:12 am

I don't think this is a new LCC.

What IB is doing, and has been considered for some time, is setting up a separate company (with a lower costbase) to operate some short haul flights. The aircraft, brand and product will be the same. It's just the operating model (employee contracts, working practices) behind it will be different.
 
rutankrd
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:19 am

This is surely a mixed fleet BA Gatwick style operation True low cost and NOT Low fares type competing carrier.

It will be IBERIA as far at the paying public are concerned and will allow some maginal routes to be retained and indeed expanded on.
 
acelanzarote
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:42 am

Iberia have already transfered quiet a few few A320´s and even a A319 to Vueling so if they are transfering more to this new set up, will they have any left! At this rate the A321 will be the smallest plane in the fleet....
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goldorak
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:36 am

Another blood bath coming...   
 
lhr380
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:42 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 6):
This is surely a mixed fleet BA Gatwick style operation True low cost and NOT Low fares type competing carrier.

Mixed fleet operate at LHR as well in addition to the Euro Fleet and Longhaul only crews
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:27 am

Very interesting move.

It makes just as much sense as ANA creating 2 LCC operations with different partners. Just seems to complicate things more than anything.
 
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downtown273
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:28 am

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 5):
The aircraft, brand and product will be the same.

Considering Iberia's current domestic on-board service is just as bad as a low-cost airline, the passengers won't even notice anything has changed...

On one of my latest IB flights, BRU-MAD, I needed water to take my medication and I got charged for it... Way to go IB.

[Edited 2011-10-01 03:30:21]
 
Cabincrewifly
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:29 am

It would be brilliant if they flew to more places in Ireand eg Cork and Shannon
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downtown273
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:34 am

Quoting Cabincrewifly (Reply 12):
It would be brilliant if they flew to more places in Ireand eg Cork and Shannon

I'd like to see them here in BFS... On hang on, they'd probably charge £400 for BFS-MAD-BFS so I'd still most likely fly BFS-LPL-MAD return on easyJet/Ryanair for £100  

Now being serious, Iberia have surrendered themselves to low-cost airlines. UK/Ireland-Spain is full of LCC (easyJet, Ryanair, Monarch, Jet2, Thomson, Thomas...). No way they'll compete on that. I think it's a bit sad the fact that Iberia hasn't been able to take anything of the UK/Ireland-Spain market. I fly many weekends to Malaga, and there are probably around 50 flights a day to the UK & Ireland. None of them operated by a Spanish airline.
 
mainMAN
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:26 am

Does anyone know why Vueling are stopping MAD - AGP from the end of October? I need to get between the two cities in June, and the only alternative is a 07.20 Spanair flight, IB for an incredible 140 euro or the train for 90 euro.

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 13):
BFS-LPL-MAD return on easyJet/Ryanair for £100

Or BFS-MAN-MAD!  
 
LJ
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:53 am

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 11):

Considering Iberia's current domestic on-board service is just as bad as a low-cost airline, the passengers won't even notice anything has changed...

Unless you're a business class passenger...
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:24 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 5):
setting up a separate company (with a lower costbase) to operate some short haul flights.

And then what will happen to Air Nostrum? If they have a lower cost base than mainline IB, there is no point - if they don't, they'll be disposed of, or what?
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
vincewy
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:38 pm

Another prime example of waste (time, money, and resources). Why bother? Their intra-European operations are already LCC (except Moscow and Istanbul) that they're best off just keeping one IB brand.
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:51 pm

Quoting vincewy (Reply 17):

Another prime example of waste (time, money, and resources). Why bother? Their intra-European operations are already LCC (except Moscow and Istanbul) that they're best off just keeping one IB brand.


As already stated, the Iberia brand will remain. There will be no new brand.

IB short haul may be LCC in service but I suspect it isn't in terms of cost base.
 
blink182
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:47 pm

What happened to Clickair? I thought they were an IB-created carrier.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
timboflier215
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:11 pm

Quoting blink182 (Reply 19):
What happened to Clickair? I thought they were an IB-created carrier.

Merged into Vueling
 
taichen
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:40 pm

At one point, Iberia was the first "legacy" Euroepan airline to intoduce a BOB menu. Swiss , Austrian and IIRC KLM (?) followed suit, but backtracked later.

Then came Clickair : a BCN-based low cost owned by Iberia, which took all BCN operations save the MAD-BCN leg and some other domestic flights, plus some international ones. It was more or less an "updated" version of the Aviaco subsidiary, using the older A320 in the Iberia flights and going LCC all the way. Clickair codeshared with IB, but did not carry pets, UMs, etc, which was a major concern for many Spanish passengers who depended on Iberia. (that is, not because they were fond of IB, but because there were little or no alternatives)

Clickair was an ultimate failure, and it eventually merged with Vueling, and the "new" Vueling was born : Vueling is now an airline where IB has a (not-so-minor) share, it is well tied with IB (all VY flights codeshare with IB) and again VY flies all IB traffic, plus some other routes. Still, Iberia does not proactively sell VY as its own product, even if many IB flights are VY codeshares. Also, vueling uses the Iberia logo from time to time on their marketing product (mostly because of the Iberia Plus frequent flyer scheme)

Iberia European and short haul product is almost 100% low cost, and even then IB is not happy, claims it is not making money, and started tallking some years ago about an "IB Express" low cost for domestic and European flights. After the BA/ IB merger, there were rumors saying than IB would eventually become BA's low cost brtand in Europe and fly from LGW as well. (?!).

At any rate, VY has taken some further IBeria A320 and operated many other Iberia domestic flights, and at he same time Air Nostrum, the regional affiliate, is now operating some CRJ 1000 and flying many other domestic legs. Iberia is shrinking by the month and someytimes I think it is just a longjhaul airline which sells tickets for two domestic /european airlines : high-priced ( offering business class and a very average economy) Air Nostrum and LCC-alike (offering some fake business class services à la Easyjet) Vueling. Still, in the last weeks Iberia has withdrawn the Vueling codeshare in some airports and is still flying those flights with its own brand / metal.

So, what would be next ? Honestly, I think very few people have a clue. Everytime I check iberia.com is a new surprise for me, honestly.
 
laca773
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:16 pm

It seems even with the BA-IB merger, IB is a lost soul and can not find itself. I was hoping with this merger, BA would set a solid foundation for IB and their mainline short/medium haul flights would be improved. No such luck. It seems now Vueling doesn't do it for them, so let's start another mediocre LCC to take over all domestic and European markets and we'll try and improve original IB mainline longhaul product and image.
 
DLD9S
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:12 pm

How can you get much more LCC than IB in economy on short and medium haul? Short of hawking smokeless cigarettes, a 'business" class and getting AAdvantage miles (a whopping 250 for a 1,300 mile flight), I don't see much difference between true IB and U2 or FR. The pitch is tight, you don't even get a free glass of water or cup of coffee, and the service is blah at best.
717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
 
JU068
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:32 pm

Quoting vincewy (Reply 17):
Another prime example of waste (time, money, and resources). Why bother? Their intra-European operations are already LCC (except Moscow and Istanbul) that they're best off just keeping one IB brand.

Can someone please tell me what's the difference with Moscow and Istanbul, and why are these two different.

Thanks
 
GSTBA
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:33 pm

I think that IB is looking at this all wrong. FR ,VY etc may offer low fares but there extra charges soon mount up.

There is still the market for a airline that offers full service product at a competitive price. Iberia could always invest in and expand there IB Regional operation that is current operated by Air Nostrum. IB Regional could offer a full service product with there ATR, and DH8 aircraft to flights from cities across Spain to feed the MAD hub. They could use there jet aircraft to operate flights from MAD to major airports across Europe .
 
rutankrd
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:12 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 25):

I think that IB is looking at this all wrong. FR ,VY etc may offer low fares but there extra charges soon mount up.

There is still the market for a airline that offers full service product at a competitive price. Iberia could always invest in and expand there IB Regional operation that is current operated by Air Nostrum. IB Regional could offer a full service product with there ATR, and DH8 aircraft to flights from cities across Spain to feed the MAD hub. They could use there jet aircraft to operate flights from MAD to major airports across Europe .

No YOU are getting it WRONG like many on these forums that confuse LCC with Low (Complex) Fares operators.

Again IBERIA are NOT starting another competitor to Easy/Ryan and others.

THIS IS ABOUT saving costs on labour maintenance catering and ground handling a la Mixed fleet or CityFlyer for the short haul routes.Differing (poorer) terms to mainline fleet etc.......
A far as Fares and livery the customer operation will still be IBERIA !

Vueling brand remains for Point to Point and low fares away from Madrid.
 
vincewy
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:54 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 24):
Can someone please tell me what's the difference with Moscow and Istanbul, and why are these two different.

Not sure at this point but for those 2 flights out of MAD, you get hot meals just like their long hauls.

Even their long haul flights are approaching LCC status, MAD-LIM is only served with one light meal, ouch, for 14 hours?
 
taichen
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:08 am

Moscow, Istanbul (and some others, such as Warsaw or Athens, IIRC just get meals and such because they arelonger flights. On the other hand, Clickair flew to Moscow in the past, and Vueling is flying there with their BOB offering.
 
caribillo
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:28 am

AFAIK the decision about creating a LCC has been already taken.
We're talking about reducing costs here, not about modifying the service/image perceived by the customer.

This is about savings, and nothing else.

The decision not taken yet, and it's the main one, is about using own resources for the new company or hiring external people, with new salary structures. Here will be the fight.

IB message to the staff is: " I'm creating a new company (it won't be perceived by the customer) for sure. Do you want to be cheaper and more productive or I'm hiring new people to do your job".
Red, orange and yellow...with a big crown!
 
smi0006
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:49 am

I actually think this is a good step and something that is being mirrored around the world.

Reduced labour costs. No one looses jobs, however all new hires are offered jobs on lower pay and conditions. Thus a reduced cost base without a reduced product. I actually think we may see IBs product improve with this plan.

With a lower cost base they can increase their spending on their product (a marginal increase is all that is neccesary the saving of new hires compared with their current expensive labour will be huge I would imagine). Labour if I recall (may not be accurate) can be 30% of the cost base. Think of the cost savings of not offering in-flight meals vs the cost savings of the cabin crew being paid a 1/3rd of what they currently are. By only hiring new hires on this new contract it ensures that the current unionised work force will be happy they keep their current contracts, their is expansion and growth for the carrier as a whole.

The same has been done at Qantas with: QCCD (Qantas Cabin Crew Domestic) QCCA (Qantas Cabin Crew Australia) QCCUK (Qantas Cabin Crew UK) QSG (Qantas Ground Services). All separate fully owned subsidiaries offering a 1/3rd of the pay as mainline, enormous cost savings same product... Same as BA with Mixedfleet and cityflyer.
 
caribillo
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:30 am

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 30):
By only hiring new hires on this new contract it ensures that the current unionised work force will be happy they keep their current contracts, their is expansion and growth for the carrier as a whole.

Not sure about the happiness of the unions.

Ground staff and F/A unions have accepted in their Labour Agreements to be tranfered to a new company in case it'd be created.
The dificulty now is the new pilots' labour agreement. If they don't agree with the conditions presented by IB, the staff for the new LCC company will come from new hiring. Everything seems reasoneble till here.

Just be aware that IB is tranfering 37 planes (50%of the short/medium haul fleet) to the new LCC. That means the IB will be in a position where has TOO much staff forthat reduced fleet.
Two solutions come to mind: firing staff or employing them at very low flying hours rate (huge hit for the salaries).
Red, orange and yellow...with a big crown!
 
babybus
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:46 pm

Hang on a minute, Iberia once had an LCC airline called Viva in the 80s. That didn't last very long.

Spain, and France, might benefit from having less unionised airlines. It's not a job many people hang around in anyway.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
taichen
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:44 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 32):
Hang on a minute, Iberia once had an LCC airline called Viva in the 80s. That didn't last very long.

Sort of LCC "avant la lettre", yes. Viva air was Iberia's charter airline at first, then it became a full-service airline that flew on behalf of IB, at much lower cost. This was in the 90's, not the 80's. The main problem with Viva air was that it never got a niche market, even if towards its end it had especialized in Mediterranean routes, more or less. Anyhow, because of IB pilots complaints Viva air resumed their all-charter flights before it was closed down.
 
Talaier
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:08 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 18):
As already stated, the Iberia brand will remain. There will be no new brand.

IB short haul may be LCC in service but I suspect it isn't in terms of cost base.

Its IAG's way of avoiding a hard fight against the unions like the one suffered in BA. Instead of re-organising the staff, they just create another company.

I know quite a few people working long-haul in IB (FAs) and they all have had their productivity increased this past year and now everyone has to fly 3.5 flights a month (one of them, the 0.5 is a fourth flight rotation placed deliberately between the end and the start of the month to avoid going over the maximum number of hours stipulated in the contract). The oldest ones are being offered early retirement (their base salary without flying is quite low).

Once this gets sorted out, IB will start expanding again long-haul. As of now though, the company is losing a lot of money in their short-haul operation.
 
Icaro
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:13 pm

Quoting taichen (Reply 28):
Even their long haul flights are approaching LCC status, MAD-LIM is only served with one light meal, ouch, for 14 hours?



MAD-LIM is a 12 hours flight and you get a hot meal, a sandwich and a light meal before landing, plus any drink you want during the flight. How of a LCC is that?

Quoting Talaier (Reply 34):
people working long-haul in IB (FAs) and they all have had their productivity increased this past year and now everyone has to fly 3.5 flights a month



On longhaul we fly 90 hours a month which will translate in up to 4.5 flights a month. Nobody flying 100% will get only 3.5 flights a month, your friends must be on any kind of reduction. On addition to these flights you can get also a return flight to the Canaries.
 
r2rho
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:45 pm

Only a handful of people on this thread understand what is going on here... you first need to differentiate between:

1) low cost base
2) no-frills services

which do not necessarily go together. New generation LCC's like FR or U2 have both, but that doesn't mean it applies to all carriers. Today, IB has a high cost base and no-frills service. That doesn't work. The aim with this new sub-company, let's just call it IB Light, is to lower the cost base (and we don't know anything about the service level yet) by having different labor conditions.

Towards the passenger there will likely be no difference, same brand, etc. But all new hires will be hired into the lower cost base IB Light which will progressively (natural attrition, early retirements, ...) take over the short-medium haul. The high-cost base long haul is not a big concern yet because IB's longhaul is (quite) profitable.

By the way IB is not the only EU legacy airline to be losing money on short-haul, so I can expect others to come up with similar ideas in the future.

Quoting buyantukhaa (Reply 1):
And Vueling? It seems they already have what they want, so what's the point?

VY will stay, likely operating p2p from bases outside MAD, in addition to growing at BCN. As I said, this is not another VY that's being created.

Quoting buyantukhaa (Reply 16):
And then what will happen to Air Nostrum? If they have a lower cost base than mainline IB, there is no point - if they don't, they'll be disposed of, or what?

Air Nostrum will stay as well. Their model works, and they fly regional a/c that IB mainline doesn't fly, there is no overlap.

Quoting acelanzarote (Reply 7):
Iberia have already transfered quiet a few few A320´s and even a A319 to Vueling so if they are transfering more to this new set up, will they have any left!

Actually they have recently taken back some a/c from VY (though likely to be given to IB Light later). And yes, if they IB Light idea is taken to its full extent, IB mainline will eventually have no A320's left and fly long-haul only. Once again, from a pax point of view there should be no difference in brand, flight booking system, FF miles etc, it's purely an IB internal reorganization.

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 5):
I don't think this is a new LCC.

What IB is doing, and has been considered for some time, is setting up a separate company (with a lower costbase) to operate some short haul flights. The aircraft, brand and product will be the same. It's just the operating model (employee contracts, working practices) behind it will be different.

  

Quoting caribillo (Reply 29):

IB message to the staff is: " I'm creating a new company (it won't be perceived by the customer) for sure. Do you want to be cheaper and more productive or I'm hiring new people to do your job".

Which is why I expect some action (strikes, etc) in the next weeks....
 
r2rho
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:57 am

It's official. The new low cost-base 100% owned subsidiary has been launched and will be called Iberia Express.

Based in MAD, it will start operations with 4 A320 in summer 2012, reaching 13 aircraft at the end of the year, all being transferred from IB mainline. The existing agreements with Vueling and Air Nostrum will not be affected. Staff will be newly hired off the market. Maintenance and handling will initially be done by IB. I can't find any details about how the brand will appear towards the public, or how the booking will be integrated with IB.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-launch-for-iberia-express-363017/

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2011/10/06/economia/1317923781.html
 
spantax
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:09 am

This opens the promissing and exciting perspective of a lot of entertaining and well-deserved "Bashing Iberia and Iberia Express" threads  
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JJJ
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:10 am

Quoting r2rho (Reply 37):
I can't find any details about how the brand will appear towards the public, or how the booking will be integrated with IB.

Easy, they will fly with IB flight numbers and booking will be through IB mainline, à la YW.

I am sure the livery and uniforms will involve adding a tiny "express" over the IB mainline logos.
 
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downtown273
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:58 am

Quoting r2rho (Reply 37):
The existing agreements with Vueling and Air Nostrum will not be affected.

Will all Iberia Express' flights be from/to MAD?

Iberia centralized all its operations in MAD (and then decentralized some to BCN, i.e. BCN-MIA). All other flights not departing/arriving MAD were given to Air Nostrum / Vueling, such as BIO-LHR.

I wonder what they'll do about this? Stick to MAD (would it be the first low cost airline ever to only depart to/from a single airport?) or decentralize and probably compete against Air Nostrum / Vueling?
 
nostrum
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:36 pm

I would like to see a merger of Iberia Express and Vueling. From my point of view it seems it could benefit Iberia Express future since the Iberia brand is very well known outside Spain, unlike Vueling. Besides, why the need to have two different budget carriers operating exclusively from MAD and the other from the rest of Spain?
 
rutankrd
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:13 pm

Quoting nostrum (Reply 41):
I would like to see a merger of Iberia Express and Vueling. From my point of view it seems it could benefit Iberia Express future since the Iberia brand is very well known outside Spain, unlike Vueling. Besides, why the need to have two different budget carriers operating exclusively from MAD and the other from the rest of Spain?



Can you NO GET THIS surely you can read/understand.

There are NOT two LCC brands. Iberia Express is just like BA Gatwick ops or Team Alitalia . ITS about operational COST SAVINGS , cheap crews (differing terms), Buy on Board, lower ground handling charges ,and third party maintenance.

AS far as the customer is concerned it IS STILL Iberia in every way , you will buy an Iberia ticket at Iberia prices.

The cost saving will NOT necessarily lead to lower ticket prices but should mean better yields.

Vueling is to remain because its primarily a LOW (Complex) FARES carrier operating Point to Point away from Madrid.

Air Nostrum are a franchise carrier buying reservations and marketing benefits from Iberia adding some routes to Iberia that are too small/short for an A319 of Iberia/Iberia Express.

All three complement each other and there will be little intentional cross-over.
 
nostrum
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:42 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 42):
Can you NO GET THIS surely you can read/understand.

Thanks for explaining; but the caps and comment were unnecessary, not to say rude. I suppose that's an update since as far as I read on some Spanish newspapers and the title still states they wanted a 'new' low-cost carrier.
 
blackwidow
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:28 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 42):
There are NOT two LCC brands. Iberia Express is just like BA Gatwick ops or Team Alitalia . ITS about operational COST SAVINGS , cheap crews (differing terms), Buy on Board, lower ground handling charges ,and third party maintenance.

Unlike BA Gatwick then... - You get free drink and food onboard, BA self handling (high cost), and BA engineering (with a hanger)......

But I get your point... Iberia's point is to take the fat out the bacon sandwich...
 
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SXI899
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:12 am

Quoting nostrum (Reply 43):
Thanks for explaining; but the caps and comment were unnecessary, not to say rude. I suppose that's an update since as far as I read on some Spanish newspapers and the title still states they wanted a 'new' low-cost carrier.

Don't sweat it too much, it's a common misconception.

Simply put, a low-cost carrier (LCCs) is one where the operating costs are lower than other similar carriers. Low-fare carriers (LFCs), are ones like Ryanair, Easyjet, Vueling etc. that offer low airfares.
A LFC is generally a LCC (you couldn't maintain low airfares without low costs), but a LCC is not necessarily a LFC. People tend to use the term LCC when they mean LFC which is why it gets confusing. You still follow??  

In this case, Iberia is starting a subsidary with low costs but still with 'normal' Iberia service, ie. two class layout etc.
Any Type, Any Time, Anywhere
 
kelual
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:29 pm

It looks like to get a free drink and a sandwich makes the difference between being a low cost airline or not. I guess from this point of view United is a low cost airline (Buy On Board) and Air Berlin no (You get a free drink and snack)?
This is an aviation forum....come on!
 
r2rho
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:00 pm

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 40):
Will all Iberia Express' flights be from/to MAD?

For the time being it seems yes, and my guess is for the future as well. I can imagine IB Express progressively taking over all IB short-haul ops at MAD over time, to eventually end up with the following setup some day:

- IB Express for short-haul from MAD
- IB mainline doing long-haul only
- Vueling for BCN hub and p2p flights
- Air Nostrum for anything smaller than an A319

Quoting JJJ (Reply 39):
Easy, they will fly with IB flight numbers and booking will be through IB mainline, à la YW.

I am sure the livery and uniforms will involve adding a tiny "express" over the IB mainline logos.

Agree, I think it will work just the same way as YW, so no real difference to the passenger whether it's IB mainline or IB Express.

LH has repeatedly been saying that their short-haul ops lose money... I wonder if this idea will inspire them...
 
foxdelta
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:43 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 47):
- IB Express for short-haul from MAD
- IB mainline doing long-haul only
- Vueling for BCN hub and p2p flights
- Air Nostrum for anything smaller than an A319

For now, eventually I fear that IB management will come and say "Hey, long range isn't doing that well, let's start transfering our worst performing long range flights to IBX..." and so on, until mainline IB cease to exist to IBX. It's a matter of time.
  
 
Viscount724
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RE: IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:04 pm

Quoting taichen (Reply 21):
At one point, Iberia was the first "legacy" European airline to intoduce a BOB menu. Swiss , Austrian and IIRC KLM (?) followed suit, but backtracked later.

Not KLM.