SyrAlex
Topic Author
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:53 am

Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:13 am

Hi all, I've noticed all day today we have had a ton of charters out of our Air National Guard base here in SYR. Every charter went to VCV, except for one CO/UA charter that was the Rutgers football team. I was able to catch a lot of the charters. We had Delta and Ryan International 767's, Delta 757's, Sun Country and Miami Air 737's (Miami Air was from Sunday actually), along with a USA 3000 A320. I know VCV or at least the area in Victorville has training grounds for the military, so could this just be a major training operation? This could be that obvious, but I'm just blown away with how much aircraft we had come and go, so I apologize.

Just look at the arrivals, they are almost all from SYR!:

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KVCV
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:03 am

Sounds like military excercises out at Fort Irwin, of which VCV is the closest airport with the ability to handle all of the aircraft.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
GCT64
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:34 pm

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:22 pm

http://www.dvidshub.net/news/77857/n...-head-out-national-training-center

NY National Guard deployment to NTC.

"More than 2,000 members of the New York Army National Guard deployed to the Army's National Training Center (NTC) at Fort Irwin, Calif., from Hancock Field Air National Guard Base Sept. 30 for a month-long training event."
Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,(..53 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
5MillionMiler
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:35 am

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:36 pm

It is interesting that they are flying commercial charters and not C5s/C17s or even Hercules.

Wonder if that is cost driven or capacity driven?
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3137
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:41 pm

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 3):
It is interesting that they are flying commercial charters and not C5s/C17s or even Hercules.

They almost always fly commercial charters. Here at COS we get World, Omni and North American all the time with a smattering of Southwest and Miami Air charters. It's nice to see MD-11s and 767s in an otherwise mostly RJ airport.

Here's a recent one
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/O...4/history/20110929/1443Z/EINN/KCOS

It probably is also more cost effective than using heavy airlifters.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
5MillionMiler
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:35 am

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:27 pm

Makes one wonder why MAC doesn't just have some 767s of their own. Haha may just be proof that the private sector can be more cost effective than government, despite scale. With all the charter ops running troops, you'd think the DOD would have its own airline... the boys in Langley have lots of 767s at IAD, but those aren't for normal troop movements of course!
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:00 pm

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 3):
It is interesting that they are flying commercial charters and not C5s/C17s or even Hercules.

Wonder if that is cost driven or capacity driven?

Those heavy lift aircraft are needed to support active troops in the field. It makes more sense to contract out the personnel moves and leave the out sized cargo to MAC. As for MAC operating it's own fleet, right now it seems to make sense. Once troop movement in the Middle East slows they would sit a lot.
 
Grid
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:26 am

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:08 pm

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 5):
Makes one wonder why MAC doesn't just have some 767s of their own. Haha may just be proof that the private sector can be more cost effective than government, despite scale. With all the charter ops running troops, you'd think the DOD would have its own airline... the boys in Langley have lots of 767s at IAD, but those aren't for normal troop movements of course!

Private sector does not lavish cheap but excellent health insurance for life and the option of retiring when you're 50 on its employees.
ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
 
mhkansan
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:02 pm

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:01 pm

On days that troop movements are happening at nearby Fort Riley, MHK sees about 6-7 VCV-MHK round trips on commercial 757s or 737 equipment. Not that uncommon for military movements, and it seems VCV is used as the military's "hub" for worldwide troop movements where they transfer to military C-17s and such to go wherever they go.
 
WNwatcher
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:54 pm

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:46 pm

Looks like DL sent an A333 and a 763 to CAE and then on to VCV, Been a long time since I've seen something that large there....
meepmeep
 
SyrAlex
Topic Author
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:53 am

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:55 pm

Quoting WNwatcher (Reply 9):
Looks like DL sent an A333 and a 763 to CAE and then on to VCV, Been a long time since I've seen something that large there....

Exactly why I was curious and surprised. Besides weather diversions from NYC, I've never seen so many "uncommon" aircraft at SYR(You don't see a 767-300, let alone more than one, here everyday)! Thanks for the info folks, I tried finding out what was going on, but found nothing.
 
apache323
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:54 pm

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:25 pm

I just left NTC on the 29th and VCV is the closest airport for such movements. We flew VCV to SVN on a Sun Country 737. Right before the big SYR movement there was a lot of flights to POB bringing back the 82nd airborne troops. I am very glad to be out of that place although VCV is a very interesting airport.
 
5MillionMiler
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:35 am

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:53 am

Am glad the troops get commercial service around the country and to the Gulf (a lot), as it is nicer for them than being on a cargo plane. Have spoken to a number of captains in the US who have said flying the troops is one of the best parts of their jobs. Most were ex-military themselves.

Seat allocation must be fun, as now there are some nice seats to be sought after... versus the sling racks, worn-out chairs and two tiny windows you might be lucky enough to locate on a MAC flight. First and business seats must be a real prize! Hope they give them good food and IFE too.

I remember seeing the "Freedom Bird" that was a jam packed DC-8 cattle car from Frankfurt for US MIlitary personnel and their families. Nice to see that at least they can now get decent comfort transport (at a better value) especially coming to and from the war zones. Any little nice touch for them is good by me.

Out of curiosity, it would be interesting to see what the rate for a 763 cross-country on the GSA rate is. Wonder if it is flat rate, or their is also a variable component on weight?
 
apache323
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:54 pm

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:35 am

Getting your seat is simple we load from the back to the front by alphabetical order so if you are lucky you get a window seat otherwise you get what you get. If you are of high rank or volunteer for baggage detail you are last to board and usually get first class if the particular aircraft is equipped. On my return flight from Afghanistan we were on a Ryan International 767 leaving from Kyrgystan I was lucky enough to get first class that was very nice for such a long flight all I had to do was load the aft baggage compartment. I will say though that any seat on a commercial flight is much better then a mac flight especially a C-130 which could not be more uncomfortable. C-17s are fine however they have passenger seat pallets. Meal service is good to always a hot meal kind of like the better days of flying. Hope that enlightens you all some.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3436
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:24 am

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 5):
Makes one wonder why MAC doesn't just have some 767s of their own.
Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 6):
Those heavy lift aircraft are needed to support active troops in the field. It makes more sense to contract out the personnel moves and leave the out sized cargo to MAC. As for MAC operating it's own fleet, right now it seems to make sense. Once troop movement in the Middle East slows they would sit a lot.
Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 12):
Seat allocation must be fun, as now there are some nice seats to be sought after... versus the sling racks, worn-out chairs and two tiny windows you might be lucky enough to locate on a MAC flight. First and business seats must be a real prize! Hope they give them good food and IFE too.

Ok, first a bit of news. MAC has been gone nearly 20 years!! Gone the way of SAC & TAC....

Second, Air Mobility Command flies cargo on C-17s, C-5s, & freighters and people on commercial charters. It's most efficient and best use of resources. Yes, there are exceptions.

Third, VCV is not a hub to transload passengers for other destinations...
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
RIXrat
Posts: 670
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:20 am

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:51 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 14):
Ok, first a bit of news. MAC has been gone nearly 20 years!! Gone the way of SAC & TAC....



You don't say. I remember the days when MAC was MATS (Military Air Transportation Service). Time passes real fast.
 
nycdave
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:22 pm

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:55 am

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 5):
Haha may just be proof that the private sector can be more cost effective than government, despite scale

well, normally I'd disagree, but the military is pretty notorious for profligate overspending (remember $600 hammers and thousand dollar toilet seats?)... though, to be fair, most of that is overspending on purchases from the private sector contractors that they're required by law to farm things out to.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5126
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:18 am

A seat on a charter may be nice, but I have to say that the comfort and particularly the legroom in the passenger section of a C-5 is nothing to sneeze at.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3436
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Why Were There So Many SYR-VCV Flights Today?

Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:33 am

Quoting nycdave (Reply 16):
but the military is pretty notorious for profligate overspending (remember $600 hammers and thousand dollar toilet seats?).

Don't be mislead... Most of that kind of talk was congressional staffers twisting the truth.... The thousand dollar toilet seat was in fact a shroud for the toilet bowl & mechanism. Yes, it had a toilet seat attached. Price actually seemed reasonable when you looked at what it actually was.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 17):
A seat on a charter may be nice, but I have to say that the comfort and particularly the legroom in the passenger section of a C-5 is nothing to sneeze at.

If you don't mind inefficient, assuming it's working at all, heating & aircon and the lack of windows riding on the troop deck wasn't bad
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Achtstein, Ansettb767, Baidu [Spider], BlueF9A320, Cory6188, cougar15, cuban8, GCT64, Google Adsense [Bot], hkcanadaexpat, Jetty, jns13, jonchan627, KarelXWB, Keith2004, lavalampluva, LY777, nycbjr, qf789, saleya22r, sassiciai, Sightseer, sparky35805, SteveXC500, TP777, TWA772LR, WIederling, Yahoo [Bot] and 418 guests