FlyboyOz
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Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:52 am

I was watching a TV show that three zoo keepers flew on a 747 cargo plane from China to SIN and then fly from SIN to Adelaide because they brought two pandas to Australia. Singapore Airlines allow to have three zoo keepers and other staff to fly on a cargo plane and look after them. Wow they must be very lucky to fly on it. Also I would love to fly on a cargo plane one day!! hehe.

Another story, I know most airlines also allow some horses to fly on a cargo plane but i suspected that there were no pax to look after the horses inside the cabin.

I am wondering how they (who aren't working for the airlines) got a special permission to fly on a cargo plane.
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lhr380
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:04 am

Quoting FlyboyOz (Thread starter):
I am wondering how they (who aren't working for the airlines) got a special permission to fly on a cargo plane.

They will be on board to keep an eye on loading of the animals, keep check of them in the air, and be there to supervise the unloading and transportation to their final destination.
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Superfly
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:17 am

This would be great opportunity to fly on a DC-8 or 707.

Quoting FlyboyOz (Thread starter):
Also I would love to fly on a cargo plane one day!! hehe.

Have one of your friends put you inside of a box and drop you off at a UPS or FedEx store and off you go.  
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FlyboyOz
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:00 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Have one of your friends put you inside of a box and drop you off at a UPS or FedEx store and off you go.

Haha.... Cargo planes do have pax seats. I like to be alone and to have a quiet time inside the cabin.
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LH526
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:30 am

LH does it all the time. Animal attendants and keepers looking after their valued cargo, even horse owners and trainers fly with their stallions and sleep in paletted seats in the cargo bay.
Lufthansa Sky Chefs (LHs catering branch) had chefs flying throughout the world on LH cargo planes and for example haul large boxes of rare fish or sparkling ice from Alaska or other delicatessen.
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PanHAM
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:44 am

Normal procedure, happens on a daily basis, especially with animal transports.

I did that a couple of times as well, not with animals but regular cargo flown on a chartered aircrarft. Once had a project with 4 consecutive CL44 charters to KRT. I went on the first one, via ATH and back on the last via CAI. Origin was Sion in Switzerland and the carrier was Transvalair. Taking off from Sion and making a right curve towards the Matterhorn was one of the great experiences, especiall as I stood behind the flight crew and watched the scenery. 1977 i think that was.

Also, Cargolux had regular passengers between LUX and Far eastern destinations in their 742, but only regular freight customers, shippers and freight forwarders.
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BAViscount
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:32 pm

I have a friend from Zimbabwe who lived in London for a while. He used to talk about a friend of his who was a pilot for a cargo airline that flew from Harare to Manston in Kent who would often manage to get his friends aboard those flights. He used to talk about mattresses tied to the floor to sleep on, although how true all that is I'm not sure - he did like to tell tall tales at times!
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airbuseric
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:56 pm

I chartered an Antonov 12 once for my company and flew a positioning flight and back with cargo on this aircraft. Also, as company attendant for the airline I worked for, I took several flights on B747-400F's to supervise and take care for one 'passenger' attending the cargo. It's common practise in the industry.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:23 pm

Many cargo airlines also allow employees and their families / partners to fly for a small nominal fee (mostly for taxes) on their cargo aircraft. Unfortunately my boss is strictly against this idea, don´t ask me why. It would be a great morale booster for the staff and would cost the company almost nothing.

Jan
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RWA380
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:42 pm

Remember the Tom Hanks movie, where he was an employee of Fed-Ex and he was riding as a passenger when it crashed in the Pacific. Yes cargo airlines do have non cockpit crew and employees fly more often than you may think. Not sure about mattresses on the floor. But as my Dad was an in-flight air mechanic with Aerovias Panama in the Congo during their war, he saw way weirder stuff than a mattress. Flying animals with or without escorts was the tame stuff.
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:44 pm

Many years ago the Dutch queen (and her party) traveled on a Martinair 747-200F to Hong Kong (on the Upper Deck) from which she took the F70 for the final leg to Japan(for a state visit).
 
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fxramper
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:23 pm

Was on a chartered A310 to YYZ for a guy moving his farm animals after Obama got elected and he refused to live in the US anymore. Paid close to $200,000 to move some donkeys, horses, chickens, goats, sheep, ducks, cats, and dogs. Density on the a/c was under 10% and he was handing out $100 bills as tips to the ground crew who loaded his extended family.   
 
masseybrown
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:37 pm

Half-pax, half-cargo ops in Alaska used to be pretty common.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:25 pm

Any NW folks in the house? Did they let employees non-rev on the 742s?? Odd thing to do but nerds like us would love to 
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jetjack74
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:55 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 13):
Any NW folks in the house? Did they let employees non-rev on the 742s?? Odd thing to do but nerds like us would love to 

Typically no. Only pilot jumpseaters were allowed to ride on the freighters. And for awhile after 9-11, even they were restricted from flying on them as well. The reason behind it was becuase NW didn't want to shoulder the cost of having to provide passenger security screening for the freighters and also would have to come up with a safety programme for carrying passengers aboard the aircraft. Also, the frieghters were exempt from the requirements of reinforced FD doors fitted, which these were required for passenger civil-aircraft. The cabin seats weren't occupied for take-off and landing, except for when load-crew specialists were taken along on some trips, while the jumpseaters had to sit in the flight deck for take-off and landing. Considering that most freighters rarely operated on route where people commuted from, they rarely ever carried anyone, from what I was told, becuase usually there was a better alternative. I got to go on a freighter once, and really, there is nothing spectacular about it, and the upper deck is very minimal to say the least, most had no windows. NW didn't really invest much into the comforts on the freighter fleet.

[Edited 2011-10-01 11:01:13]
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idlewild
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:31 pm

I was always curious that outside of Classic 747 Combis, why cargo carriers with 744Fs (converted) never made the upper deck all business or first class only seating. Don't cargo planes have abetter on time record and wouldn't the boarding & customs process be quick considering the small amount of passengers? Are there reasons for them not doing this besides jetjack74's pointing out about reinforced doors? Insurance? Payload? Expense?
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:43 pm

Quoting idlewild (Reply 15):
I was always curious that outside of Classic 747 Combis, why cargo carriers with 744Fs (converted) never made the upper deck all business or first class only seating. Don't cargo planes have abetter on time record and wouldn't the boarding & customs process be quick considering the small amount of passengers? Are there reasons for them not doing this besides jetjack74's pointing out about reinforced doors? Insurance? Payload? Expense?

An airline called Seaboard World did that in the 1970's and Flying Tigers continued to do it as well after they bought SW out. There were passenger services complete with meals services on the freighter aircraft. They had reservations, a check-in counter and departure lounges at JFK and some of the destinations they served. I have a book about them, it's called "The Seaboard World Saga" and it goes through the company's entire history. But it wouldn't work today because current safety laws restrict passenger aircraft from being allowed to carry flammable, highly volatile haz-mat, where most freighters are.
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:46 pm

Quoting idlewild (Reply 15):
I was always curious that outside of Classic 747 Combis, why cargo carriers with 744Fs (converted) never made the upper deck all business or first class only seating. Don't cargo planes have abetter on time record and wouldn't the boarding & customs process be quick considering the small amount of passengers? Are there reasons for them not doing this besides jetjack74's pointing out about reinforced doors? Insurance? Payload? Expense?

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that this would be a convenient alternative for premium passengers...cargo planes don't tend to fly the non-stop routes they're looking for. Not many premium pax want to fly SIN-NRT-ANC-EWR on a cargo jet when they can fly SIN-EWR non-stop. Aside from that, there's the expense of security, cabin crew, food, IFE, etc...I don't think there's an airline on this planet that wants to make that kind of investment in its freighter fleet when it can offer a much better product on a dedicated pax plane. I'm sure there are also various regulations that either get in the way or outright prohibit this.
 
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:01 pm

How much would it cost for me to ship something and tag along the flight as a "courier" or someone overseeing his cargo. At ORD we get a whole bunch of interesting 747 cargo's
 
toobz
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:03 pm

my dad (ex Pan Am) had used Flying Tigers out of JFK a few times. He said they had a few first class seats upstairs. He also was served meals on the flight. Very cool.
 
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:10 pm

I don't know how other airline handle it, but I had many many many times freight attendants on board. For horses, for expensive art or other stuff.
I don't know how much these tickets were, but I guess the costumer has to pay for all the stuff for the attendants. Usually they were pretty nice and took good care of the horses etc.

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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:11 pm

We have a number of situations that allow non employee jumpseaters to fly. Horse attendants being one.
 
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:17 pm

Had a couple of flights o/b frighters in Colombia back in 90'. It was BOG-BAQ on SE210F Lineas Aereas Suramericanas, BOG-PDA-BOG on C46 LAS and BOG-BAQ on DC8F Tampa. Was easy to get on tarmac in BOG and than simply ask...that C46 crashed later.

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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:17 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
This would be great opportunity to fly on a DC-8 or 707.

Indeed, it's something I've looked into. Unfortunately last night my girlfriend gave me the firm answer that she was keeping all three of her horses, she had been wanting to sell one, and I was hoping it may have involved a DC-8 flight. Well no, I was going to make sure it did  But, she wants to buy an Icelandic pony now... from Iceland.   

Quoting lh526 (Reply 4):
LH does it all the time. Animal attendants and keepers looking after their valued cargo, even horse owners and trainers fly with their stallions and sleep in paletted seats in the cargo bay.

Indeed, it's a requirement of travelling animals by air. If a horse freaks in flight the owner, handler or trainer are the best people to calm it down. A lot of the horses flying are worth six or seven figure sums, so you want to make their flight as safe and comfortable as possible.


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bps3458
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:18 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 17):
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that this would be a convenient alternative for premium passengers

I guess it all depends on the route and type of freighter. I chartered at Cargolux 744 in June from the UK to Australia. Routing was PIK-GYD-SIN-SYD. Operating air craft was LX-WCV which at that time was the second youngest air craft in their fleet. 2 men crew all the way so got to use the crew rest area (real beds). Never had a better sleep on a plane (am regular business class traveller on QF, SQ, EY, CX) and would prefer this "freighter" option any time on the Europe to Australia route. Was certainly a once in a life time experience.

Cheers from Brisbane,

Peter
 
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:20 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Have one of your friends put you inside of a box and drop you off at a UPS or FedEx store and off you go.  

Homer & Bart Simpson did it

Quote:
To get Bart home, Homer orders equipment for the power plant and ships it via courier from Knoxville, with Milhouse, Nelson, and Martin stowed away inside the crate and Bart as the courier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_on_the_Road

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B6MoneyGuyJFK
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:25 pm

Does flying on a KLM 747 combi count?
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cubastar
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:46 pm

Back in '70s, I flew a scheduled L-100 (commercial Lockheed C-130) DFW-LAX-SFO with three thoroughbreds and 2 trainers aboard. Somewhere near Phoenix, the horses started acting up and in spite of tranquillizers, began rearing up and jumping inside of their containers and one injured its foreleg. They were so active the plane was actually bouncing around like it was in moderate turbulence. As they were continuing on to SFO after the stop in LAX, it was decided to bypass LAX and proceed directly to SFO. All ended well for the horses as they arrived early and the veterinarians were at the freight parking area when we arrived. I never would have thought that horses (inside their traveling rigs) would have been able to cause a C-130 reroute because of self-created turbulence.
 
avek00
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:50 pm

In addition to the fact that most cargo aircraft make multiple stops where pax a/c go nonstop, there's also the reality that cargo flights tend to run at odd (read: commercially undesirable for pax use) timings.
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ER757
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting FlyboyOz (Thread starter):
Also I would love to fly on a cargo plane one day!! hehe.

I think you'd be disappointed if you did. Unless you like flying in the middle of the night with limited amenities.
 
Flyer732
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:18 pm

Its not all its cracked up to be. I fly on cargo planes every single week, multiple times. You're very rarely on time (outside of the FedEx/UPS world). Its typically cold, especially on the MD11/DC10. As others have said, you leave in the dark, you arrive in the dark, and make numerous stops enroute to the final destination.

You're responsible for yourself, if you want a meal, you have to get up, dig through the meals, find one you want, cook it, set it up and serve it to yourself.
 
jetjeanes
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:25 pm

Through the years it has not been uncommon most have a couple pax seat available, Now i had one dc-9 flight that did not and the jumpseat in the cockpit was taken and sat in the old f/a bulckhead seat looking straight down an empty tube basically on takeoff. if i was not strapped in i would have gone flying to the rear of the a/c. I know one line had a horse get spooked on a dc-8 kicking the walls, and the co pilot was forced to use a fire ax between the horses head to put him down. depending on the a/c the seats are not that comfy, and i have wound up asleep on the floor now usually upstairs on the 747,s they still have F/c seats in them ,but some even have bunks for longer flights,,Some planes have a lav on them and some do not or they are not functional and just nasty. Some have galleys that barely work and others have most of it removed as it is dead weight,,.Sorry if their is spelling errors the print on this page seems very small..
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jetjack74
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:31 pm

This is the book


The ladder was how the pax boarded the aircraft on it's upperdeck passenger cabin


The check-in desk at their JFK HQ/terminal


A promo of it's proposal and a shot of it's upperdeck config. They actually did have an aircraft in production at Boeing for this layout. It was supposed to be a dedicated combi aircraft from door 3 mid ship back. It goes on to say that order was cancelled and the aircraft sold during production to LY before delivery.


A blurb about about SWA's awards and pending awards to begin passenger service from an iminently defunct CAB. Most of this never saw the light of day due to a merger with Flying Tigers. Flying tigers did, however, continue pax service on it's 747F's upperdeck all the way until it merged with FX in 1989. FX disposed of it's pax service along with the 747F


The book, published in 1996, goes on to highlight that by today's standards current and pending safety regulations, these types of services would be prohibited on US carriers and would either force Seaboard to adhere to pax standards or abandon passengers services all-together, with the latter being the likely route taken.
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bps3458
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:15 pm

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 30):
You're responsible for yourself, if you want a meal, you have to get up, dig through the meals, find one you want, cook it, set it up and serve it to yourself.

I actually prepared the meals for the crew. Had a blast on my own "private" 747. Great catering as well. Great sandwiches catered in LUX prior to positioning air craft to PIK and absolutely great chicken satay from SIN to SYD. Guess it all comes down to the airline/air craft and how often you fly as a PAX on a freighter.

As I said before, this was my first time chartering a 747 so it was a great experience as I usually focus on chartering ships.

Cheers from Brisbane,

Peter
 
aklrno
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:27 pm

The formal name for non-flight crew passengers on a freighter is "supernumeraries". Each aircraft type must apply to the FAA for permission to carry them. For an example google "FAA supernumeraries". There are specific rules as to who they may be and what special training or accommodations (like exit facilities) are required.
 
laxboeingman
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:55 am

I remember watching a show on Discovery Wings about a cargo flight. The cargo was a small number of horses and the trainers, and/or maybe a vet, flew on the plane with them. They installed, from what I can remember, 2 rows of seats.

Here is a question to ponder that also may be a case of this: In the case of a 747combi is the cargo flying on a pax jet or are the pax flying in a cargo jet?

Thank you in advance for all answers/comments,

laxboeingman
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BMI727
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:04 am

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 35):
Here is a question to ponder that also may be a case of this: In the case of a 747combi is the cargo flying on a pax jet or are the pax flying in a cargo jet?

Cargo flying on a passenger plane. The passengers are not supernumeraries but passengers who require all of the facilities as they would on an all pax flight, like exits and flight attendants.
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JAAlbert
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:58 am

Boeing was considering converting the nose of its DreamLifters into passenger space so the plane could transport Boeing and Supplier employees between plants. I remember it had to apply to the FAA. Don't know what ever happened with this idea - but it sure would be cool to fly in the front of a DreamLifter!!
 
laxboeingman
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:28 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):

Thank you; that is what I thought. Also because the pax are in their normal spots on the e/q.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 37):
but it sure would be cool to fly in the front of a DreamLifter!!

Yes, that would be very cool.


Thank you again,

laxboeingman
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Kaphias
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:44 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 12):
Half-pax, half-cargo ops in Alaska used to be pretty common.

They still are; AS has five 734 combi (half pax half cargo) that they still fly. I've been on them a couple of times, it's a pretty unique experience.
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JETPILOT
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:05 am

I used to jumpseat in the back of freighters all the time. It sucks! It's cold, and loud, and you're staring at a 9G net. The lights are always on 100% full bright. There are no windows to look out. I rode in the cockpit in the uncomfortable jumpseats every opportunity I got. It was way too boring back there.
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:28 am

Quoting er757 (Reply 29):
I think you'd be disappointed if you did. Unless you like flying in the middle of the night with limited amenities.
Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 30):
I fly on cargo planes every single week, multiple times. You're very rarely on time (outside of the FedEx/UPS world). Its typically cold, especially on the MD11/DC10. As others have said, you leave in the dark, you arrive in the dark, and make numerous stops enroute to the final destination.

You're responsible for yourself, if you want a meal, you have to get up, dig through the meals, find one you want, cook it, set it up and serve it to yourself.

Well... I don't mind about them as long as I enjoy flying. I can visit flight deck and talk to the pilots. I love stopovers and to explore the airports that I have never been to. Yes I am an aviation geek! lol

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 35):
are the pax flying in a cargo jet

I mean this topic is only about the pax flying in a "full" cargo jet NOT a half pax and half cargo" plane such as 747combi.
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N62NA
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:29 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 23):
A lot of the horses flying are worth six or seven figure sums, so you want to make their flight as safe and comfortable as possible.

We're now at the point where a horse on a plane is more comfortable than the rest of us stuck in coach!
 
stratosphere
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:46 am

Quoting jetpilot (Reply 40):
I used to jumpseat in the back of freighters all the time. It sucks! It's cold, and loud, and you're staring at a 9G net.

Its funny I feel the same way and in a lot of freighters you are flying backwards as well looking at the 9G net with no windows. But some like it cuz the security is less of a headache then at the pax terminal. But then again you wind up coming into the freight side of the airport and have to find a way to the pax terminal. I can fly free on the freighters but I actually buy my tickets on an airline and do not use the jumpseat privilege. Some think I am crazy but I like to fly forward and have windows to look out.
 
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:27 am

Jumping in late on this thread, but I have twice done animal transports and have flown on FedEx. They require two handlers to go along on the flight. My job was pretty much to make sure our animals were comfortable and safe on our trip. The first trip I did was from EWR-LAX non stop on an A300. Very interesting seats...not commercial ones, prettty comfortable nonetheless. From what I was told (and with my experiences), the A300 has the most seats in the FedEx widebody fleet, although this was pre-777, with six. They did face to the rear. My second trip from from LAX-MEM on an MD-11 and then from MEM-PHL on an MD-10. The MD-11 only had 2 rear facing seats whereas the MD-10 had four forward facing seats. In both cases, they looked to be old business class seats and were pretty comfortable. Interestingly enough, I had the best food that I've had on ANY flights in a long time. Definitely a different way to fly, but also a very cool experience. It's not everyday, that you are told how to access the cargo hold, how to don much more professional oxygen masks and and how to break into the cockpit in case of an emergency so you can climb out the cockpit windows.

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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:33 am

Quoting FedExFlyerPHL (Reply 44):
In both cases, they looked to be old business class seats and were pretty comfortable.

Some operators of converted 747s leave some of the previous owner's seats up top, even if they shorten the upper deck.

Quoting FedExFlyerPHL (Reply 44):
It's not everyday, that you are told how to access the cargo hold, how to don much more professional oxygen masks and and how to break into the cockpit in case of an emergency so you can climb out the cockpit windows.

Surprising that the TSA goons haven't tried to armor the planes to protect them from horse trainers.
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:40 am

Flying on the DC-10 and MD-11 pretty much blows. Most of the time you are in the back sleeping on the floor (which is filled with bags), or behind the net on a pallet with a bottle of oxygen. DC-10's didn't have bunks, but the MD-11 quite often does. The bunk on the 11 is like sleeping in a coffin. It is best to have a Slinky for a spine if you are over 6ft tall because it requires some contortion to get in there. These planes are noisy, cold, and more often than not you are going to get inadvertently kicked by someone coming out of the cockpit or flight deck.

The 747 is another story. I personally dislike the pure freighter except for the bunk. The pure freighter is way too compact and there is not a lot of room to move around. The BCF's and BDSF's are a much better quality of life.

All in all, I would rather fly on a pax bird any day than be on a freighter.

MD-11
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g95/finnbell79/World%20Travels/Uniforms.jpg

747
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g95/finnbell79/PC130890.jpg

[Edited 2011-10-01 23:42:58]
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:37 am

Air Marshall Islands used to fly a DC-8 mixed freighter to HNL from MAJ & KWJ. Cargo up front and the big cargo door on the right side of the plane opened up revealing LD3's on the pax deck. Paxs deplaned via rear door stairs in a roped off area on the ramp into customs. Cool sight, somewhere I have camcorder footage of the process from taxi in to unloading. Also the AQ 73S QC Being converted for the night time inter island cargo runs. I flew on one of these one time, sat next to the cargo door.
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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:10 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 47):
Air Marshall Islands used to fly a DC-8 mixed freighter to HNL from MAJ & KWJ. Cargo up front and the big cargo door on the right side of the plane opened up revealing LD3's on the pax deck. Paxs deplaned via rear door stairs in a roped off area on the ramp into customs. Cool sight, somewhere I have camcorder footage of the process from taxi in to unloading. Also the AQ 73S QC Being converted for the night time inter island cargo runs. I flew on one of these one time, sat next to the cargo door.

I believe ATI ended up with that aircraft. They used to call her Lil AMI(slang for Little Amy). Airliners Magazine did a story about it years ago, I think I still have the issue.

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RE: Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane

Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:04 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 46):
747

Ex-Air France?
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