ltbewr
Topic Author
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Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:49 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...lights-left-from-clo_n_990126.html

The FAA is investigating why ATC at PIT airport allowed 6 planes took off from a closed runway this past Thursday. I guess the runway was closed for maintenance but somehow the ground ATC staff either wasn't aware of it or they failed to remember that. Apparently there was no problems, but it still this is an apparently boo-boo that needs investigation as it could have been some serious problems.
 
shufflemoomin
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RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:51 pm

Wasn't there an accident once where a plane crashed into maintenance trucks on a runway? Luckily this played out fine, but as you said, it could have gone much worse. It was nothing but luck.
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:28 pm

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 1):
Wasn't there an accident once where a plane crashed into maintenance trucks on a runway? Luckily this played out fine, but as you said, it could have gone much worse. It was nothing but luck.

You're thinking of the Singapore crash in Taipei.

And let's try and keep things in perspective - in that accident, there was actual construction and equipment on the runway. That is not always the case with a closed runway. ATC isn't going to clear an airplane for takeoff on a runway if they see that sort of thing, even if they think the runway is open. This was a misunderstanding, but nobody was in danger.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
wingnutmn
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RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:31 am

Also, a dc9 or 727 landed and crashed into a truck owing the runway when he didn't anseer radio calls. This was late 80's i believe at FSD.

Wingnut
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
 
tb727
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RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:55 am

Quoting wingnutmn (Reply 3):
Also, a dc9 or 727 landed and crashed into a truck owing the runway when he didn't anseer radio calls. This was late 80's i believe at FSD.

Yep an Ozark DC-9-30 hit a plow in FSD, replaced the wing and plane flew until just a few years ago with NW.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
NWAROOSTER
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RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:12 am

Quoting tb727 (Reply 4):
Yep an Ozark DC-9-30 hit a plow in FSD, replaced the wing and plane flew until just a few years ago with NW.

This aircraft a DC-9-31, registration N994Z. Both main wings wee replaced off an Air Canada DC-9-32 that had a rear lav fire and made an emergency landing in Ohio. The aircraft flew with a -31 fuselage and -32 wings until Delta retired it.
This aircraft flew with Northeast Airlines, Delta Airlines, Ozark Airlines, Republic Airlines, after it got the new wings, Northwest Airlines and finished it flying career with Delta Airlines.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
OB1783P
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RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:31 am

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 1):
Wasn't there an accident once where a plane crashed into maintenance trucks on a runway?

On landing also, a Western DC-10 with major loss of life, back in 1979 in MEX. But the main cause of the crash was "Non-compliance with the meteorological minima for the approach procedure." The aircraft touched down partly in the grass before attempting to go-around. And then it hit the truck on the closed runway.
I've flown thousands of miles and I can tell you it's a lot safer than crossing the street!
 
netjetsintl
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RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:09 pm

The runway was closed but no heavy equipment on it (thankfully)

Lots of ASAP forms to be filled from both sides (pilots & ATC controllers)
 
thrufru
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:48 pm

RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:32 pm

Unfortunately, ASAP reports won't do any good. An ASAP must be a single reporting incident, meaning the only way anyone would find out is if the individual party that had the incident reported it. Since this involved multiple parties, it won't qualify under ASAP. Now a NASA report might be a bit more appropriate, though. Guess it also seems like a few flight crews didn't review their NOTAMs.
 
netjetsintl
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:22 am

RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:55 pm

Quoting thrufru (Reply 8):
Guess it also seems like a few flight crews didn't review their NOTAMs.

Correct, that'd be hard to explain when/if the FAA comes calling.

I'm not playing monday-morning quarteback, that can happen to ANYBODY
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:01 pm

Quoting thrufru (Reply 8):
Guess it also seems like a few flight crews didn't review their NOTAMs.

NOTAMS change very quickly. I've had NOTAMS of approaches being out of service, and when I show up ATC says it's fine. I'm very cautious on the way down, of course, but I'll use the approach if they want me to. And if ATC clears me to use a runway that's NOTAMed closed, I'm inclined to do so as long as I don't see any obstructions on it. The most likely cause of that scenario (by a wide margin) is that someone went and changed the NOTAM between then and the time I checked them.

Quoting netjetsintl (Reply 9):
that can happen to ANYBODY

  

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:13 pm

Quoting thrufru (Reply 8):
Unfortunately, ASAP reports won't do any good. An ASAP must be a single reporting incident, meaning the only way anyone would find out is if the individual party that had the incident reported it.


That's not the way it is where I work. You have 24 hours in which to file your ASAP once you realize your mistake, or a third party brings it to your attention, or you get to a place where you can file your ASAP.

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
NOTAMS change very quickly


Yes, but this notam had been out since morning and the departures evidently happened later in the day.

I can't count the amount of times I've had to call LGA to see if they were going to extend their notamed construction curfew hours due to a ground delay program. Most times they have since the weather precluded the construction work from happening, but every-once in a while they stick to it so you have to vigilant. Especially true down in central and south America. When they say they are going to close, you can bank on it.

Since it was day time and the maintenance involved the runway lights its not that big of a deal. But let's say a chunk of concrete had been damaged by lightening leaving a hole in the runway.....that could have been a major problem.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Planes Left From Closed Runway At PIT

Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:34 am

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
Yes, but this notam had been out since morning and the departures evidently happened later in the day.

From the perspective of the pilots, that could just be an indication that whatever was closing the runway was over with and it was reopening sooner than scheduled.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day

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