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zippyjet
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Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:15 pm

If its been covered before forgive me:

I remember seeing a Connie spooling up its propellers at MIA in August of 1968. I thought by '68 the props including the Electras did the DCA-LGA-Shuttle. Where would this Connie be heading to from MIA? Eastern was ensconced with 727's and DC-9's which would have been able to handle short flights to Freeport and other Bahamian ports of call. I know Eastern flew its Electras at least through 1975 on the Shuttle route. Where and when were Eastern's final non shuttle prop flights? Again, I'm not including the shuttle service I'm talking regular scheduled full service flights.


With Pan Am, at least in the TV show they trundled out a DC-7 for their humanitarian Bay of Pigs Cuba to the USA flights.
IN the 60's after Pan Am was well into the jet age where did their classic props fly? And when did Pan Am finally retire their propeller birds (Connies, DC-7's, and 377's) from regularly scheduled full service flights?

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The one b/w Connie pic: Notice the tail, Never saw that before with the "hockey stick livery"
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timz
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:57 pm

You're just asking about passenger flights, right?

So the flight to Auckland might well be PA's last prop. Connies and B377s were long gone by then.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:37 am

Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter):
And when did Pan Am finally retire their propeller birds (Connies, DC-7's, and 377's) from regularly scheduled full service flights?

Pan Am's early model Connies were gone by the mid-1950s. The B377s were retired between about 1958 and 1960. Some DC-6Bs were around until about 1968.The DC-7Bs were retired in 1963-64 and the last of the DC-7Cs were gone by 1965-66. Many DC-7Cs had been converted to freighters for their last few years of service.

Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter):
In the 60's after Pan Am was well into the jet age where did their classic props fly?

DC-6Bs were heavily used on Pan Am's IGS (Internal German Services) to/from West Berlin until 727-100s began replacing them in 1966. In the August 1963 timetable DC-6Bs operated about 90 sectors a day on the West Berlin routes.

Pan Am also based a DC-7C in NAN from the late 1950s until 1965. It operated twice a week NAN-AKL-NAN and also flew once a week NAN-PPG-NAN. It connected at NAN with Pan Am jets that replaced props on the SFO/LAX-HNL-NAN-SYD route in late 1959. Auckland couldn't handle 707s and DC-8s until the current airport opened in 1965. I think BOAC Comet 4s were the only jets that regularly used the former airport.

The only remaining Pan Am propeller service on transatlantic routes in August 1963 were a 1 x week DC-7C IDL-KEF-PIK-LHR (their only flight to Iceland) and a 1 x week DC-7C IDL-BOS-SMA-LIS (SMA=Santa Maria, Azores).

Their only other propeller services on passenger flights as of August 1963 were a few DC-6Bs in the Caribbean and Central America. For example, there was a 2 x week DC-6B multi-stop service SJU-STX-SXM-ANU-PTP-FDF-BGI-POS. It connected with jets at SJU. Also a 3 x week KIN-MBJ-PAP-SDQ flight that connected with jets at KIN. A couple of other similar flights in the Caribbean area. Also 3 x week GUA-SAL-TGU-MGA and 4 x week GUA-SAL-MGA-SJO-PTY, connecting with jets at GUA. There was also a daily MIA-NAS DC-6B alongside twice daily 707s or DC-8s, but the DC-6B flight ended in early September.

As of 1963 there were also still a few DC-6A freighters on routes from MIA to the Caribbean and several DC-7CF freighters on transatlantic routes, making various stops as far east as BEY.
 
jfk777
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:42 am

What about the "Havana Special" used to get the Cubans out during the last days before Castro closed the border.
 
kellmark
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:59 am

There was an Eastern Connie used for awhile as an engine ferry around the system. It would often be in Miami.

Also, there were times when Air Shuttle Connies would be used in the system on weekends or also to substitute for other aircraft when needed.
 
L1011
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:43 am

In 1972, Eastern was flying Electras from Miami to Nassau and Miami to Tampa with a stop in Vero Beach. I flew on these flights:

10/17/72 Miami to Nassau N5529
10/18/72 Nassau to Miami N5525
10/19/72 Miami-Vero Beach-Tampa N5525

Bob Bradley
Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
 
N1120A
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:52 am

Eastern also used some experimental STOL props on shuttle flights.
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:09 am

Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter):

I remember seeing a Connie spooling up its propellers at MIA in August of 1968. I thought by '68 the props including the Electras did the DCA-LGA-Shuttle. Where would this Connie be heading to from MIA?

Perhaps a charter. Also in 1968 Eastern's Super Connies showed up on the DCA-LGA-BOS Shuttle as extra sections as well as subbing for the usual Electra or DC-9-31 equipment as needed. With reduced Shuttle frequencies on weekends, the fully-amortized Super Connies would also seem to be an ideal choice for charters at rates lower than EA would need to charge for newer aircraft types.
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:10 am

Eastern's last piston-engine airliner was the Convair 440, retired in June 1970. If I recall correctly, they were used out of MIA to Vero Beach, Gainesville, Tampa and the former Mackey routes to the Bahamas gained from the merger in 1967. The last Electra was retired from the Shuttle in September or October 1977 (I forget which.)

The DC-6B was the last piston-engine in PAA's fleet, retired in mid 1968 when the HKG base was closed.

[Edited 2011-10-01 19:24:01]

[Edited 2011-10-01 19:26:12]
 
cf6ppe
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:14 am

Quoting kellmark (Reply 4):
There was an Eastern Connie used for awhile as an engine ferry around the system. It would often be in Miami.

This cargo Connie N8227* or ship #254 as it was affectionately known was used for various cargo type trips and also for moving engines - JT3D's, JT4A's and JT8D's - to aircraft needing engine changes at out stations. #254 was crewed by supervisory crews - the same guys that did the engine out ferry's. The last trip (or next to last trip) was hauling a JT8D to from MIA to CLE. CLE was weathered in and #254 circled until low on fuel than set down at PIT, refueled and waited a while to go on to CLE through an expected clearing in the weather but after circling CLE and not being able to land due to the weather not opening as expected. On the return from circling CLE, #254 had to have METO (maximum except take off) power applied to get back over the weather; during the METO power excursion one of the engines had to be shut down and #254 returned to PIT with one feathered. Oh, the JT8D got unloaded and trucked PIT to CLE. Total time elapsed was about two days. After that, engines/powerplants were trucked when necessary. (Cost to fly vs. truck was about 4 to 5x).

#254 was parked on the north side of the Building 20 phase docks and a major check was accomplished over the next several months. I remember that junior mechanics had to work on her as the senior folks had already done duty. A number of jugs had to be changed and when work was being accomplished, the base nurse parked her first aid van close by.

#254 was sold to some enterprising folks whose business it was to fly racing horses about the world. Their first trip was from MIA to Australia and back. (I just can't imagine being that far from land on that frame).

Finally, #254's parking spot behind the MIA engine shop was a thick oil soaked spot. Most of that oil spot eventually decomposed and disappeared in the next ten years or so.

*My best recollection, but it might be missing an alpha....

RE: EAL's L-188's:
The Electra's were done in and put out to pasture in 1977 when the number of spare powerplant's was managed to a minimum level. The Allison shop was shut down and the tooling sold.
It was however a happy day as the A300B4's had begun arriving....
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:01 am

Quoting kellmark (Reply 4):
There was an Eastern Connie used for awhile as an engine ferry around the system. It would often be in Miami.

I should have mentioned, I remember seeing this Connie with windows and it was spooling up at a gate in what was then known as Concourse 6 which in the 70's was renamed Concourse C. It was at a gate close in near the main terminal.
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kellmark
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:26 pm

It could have been a shuttle airplane used in the system that day. My best guess.
 
kellmark
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:30 pm

Quoting cf6ppe (Reply 9):
This cargo Connie N8227* or ship #254 as it was affectionately known was used for various cargo type trips and also for moving engines - JT3D's, JT4A's and JT8D's - to aircraft needing engine changes at out stations. #254 was crewed by supervisory crews - the same guys that did the engine out ferry's. The last trip (or next to last trip) was hauling a JT8D to from MIA to CLE. CLE was weathered in and #254 circled until low on fuel than set down at PIT, refueled and waited a while to go on to CLE through an expected clearing in the weather but after circling CLE and not being able to land due to the weather not opening as expected. On the return from circling CLE, #254 had to have METO (maximum except take off) power applied to get back over the weather; during the METO power excursion one of the engines had to be shut down and #254 returned to PIT with one feathered. Oh, the JT8D got unloaded and trucked PIT to CLE. Total time elapsed was about two days. After that, engines/powerplants were trucked when necessary. (Cost to fly vs. truck was about 4 to 5x).

Great recollection cf6ppe. Loved it. Brought back a lot of memories.
 
sparky35805
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:06 pm

The livery on the black and white photo of the Eastern Super G was applied to one of each aircraft in the fleet except for the brand new 727s in the summer of 1964.Many at Eastern wanted this livery to be adopted but the modified or hockey stick officially known as new mark was adopted in late summer.I have heard that Floyd Hall who had came in as president early in the year didnt want the falcon at all.I have also heard that Pan Am complained because the logo in the blue circle on the tail was too similar to theirs.No official reason was given that I know of.
Sparky
 
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Moose135
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RE: Eastern And Pan Am: Prop Flights

Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:58 am

Very interesting story, cf6ppe!

Quoting cf6ppe (Reply 9):
Finally, #254's parking spot behind the MIA engine shop was a thick oil soaked spot. Most of that oil spot eventually decomposed and disappeared in the next ten years or so.

Radials don't leak - they mark their territory.
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