bastew
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:56 am

India has 'no time frame' for permitting Airbus A380 flights into the country amid concern that travellers could desert local carriers, aviation minister Vayalar Ravi said yesterday. "If we allow the biggest aircraft to land here, they'll sweep up all the passengers," he said.

The International Herald Tribune notes that banning the world's largest passenger planes and other restrictions on overseas airlines' flying rights have cut competition for Air India, Jet Airways and Kingfisher Airlines, all of which are struggling to turn surging travel demand into profit amid high fuel costs and price competition.

Emirates and Lufthansa have both said they would use the A380 superjumbo on flights to India, if permitted.
 
bennett123
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:17 pm

In other words, either no Indian carrier will ever fly the A380, (I take it that there is no comparable ban on the B747-8) or there will suddenly be a seismic shift at some point.

It does not encourage anyone to fly on Indian carriers.

Will there be subsequent action taken against India, or will other countries simply stick with A340, B747, B777 etc.
 
smi0006
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:19 pm

Quoting bastew (Thread starter):
India has 'no time frame' for permitting Airbus A380 flights into the country amid concern that travellers could desert local carriers, aviation minister Vayalar Ravi said yesterday. "If we allow the biggest aircraft to land here, they'll sweep up all the passengers," he said.

Ahh yeah that old evil market competition.... your right they may 'sweep up all your passengers' however your airlines will react and Darwin's theory will apply; survival of the fitest!

Quoting bastew (Thread starter):
The International Herald Tribune notes that banning the world's largest passenger planes and other restrictions on overseas airlines' flying rights have cut competition for Air India, Jet Airways and Kingfisher Airlines, all of which are struggling to turn surging travel demand into profit amid high fuel costs and price competition.

Would IT and 9W be struggling so much if AI was just allowed to die by the GOI? Honest question here people....
 
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Stitch
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:22 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 1):
In other words, either no Indian carrier will ever fly the A380, (I take it that there is no comparable ban on the B747-8) or there will suddenly be a seismic shift at some point.

I guess the 747-8 is not seen as a threat, since in LH config it seats 41 more than their 747-400, compared to 181 with their A380-800.

And the real "threat" will be EK's two-class A380-800s with a projected 644-653 seats.
 
FWAERJ
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:22 pm

This doesn't look good for EK. Weren't they going to send a lot of high-density (600+ seat) A380s to India just so they could meet demand?

On a side note, does Kingfisher still have the A380 on order, or were they canceled?
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
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Polot
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:26 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
On a side note, does Kingfisher still have the A380 on order, or were they canceled?

They still technically have them on order. I don't think anyone seriously believes they are going to take them at this point though.
 
bennett123
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:34 pm

http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/Air%20India.htm

I was somewhat surprised at how young their WB fleet is, (apart from the B747-400's).

Agewise, their NB fleet is the main issue.

For Emirates, could they fly/increase flights to Pakistan and up into Western China. I dread to think of the reaction in India of A380's flying into Karachi and "mere" B777 into Delhi.

I doubt that Kingfisher will choose/be allowed to buy A380's.

Otherwise the GOI would have to ban them, (would'nt they).
 
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N14AZ
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:43 pm

Unbelievable, from now on I will boycott my local Indian restaurant!   
 
bennett123
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:48 pm

Is it owned by GOI?.
 
babybus
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:55 pm

Quoting bastew (Thread starter):
"If we allow the biggest aircraft to land here, they'll sweep up all the passengers," he said.

I think we all have to respect his complete honesty. It will sweep up all his local passengers.

So any passenger travelling to India now has to continue to be squeezed into lesser aircraft? It will be interesting to see the response of Germany to this bizarre declaration.

In an economic face off between India and Germany, my money is on Germany.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
RyanairGuru
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:58 pm

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 2):
Would IT and 9W be struggling so much if AI was just allowed to die by the GOI? Honest question here people....

Don't let common sense get in the way of Indian politics  
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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N14AZ
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 8):
Is it owned by GOI?.

I have no clue, most probably not. But doesn't matter, it's kind of kin liability!  
 
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Vio
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:04 pm

Well... So I guess the EU should now ban any Indian carrier from flying anything larger than a 737/A320 into Europe? (well they could make a few stops along the way, can't they?)... Is this for real though, or is it a joke?
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
LJ
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:05 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):

I guess the 747-8 is not seen as a threat, since in LH config it seats 41 more than their 747-400, compared to 181 with their A380-800.

However, LH can't fly the 747-8 to India either (due to restrictions on number of seats per flight).

Quoting poLOT (Reply 5):

They still technically have them on order. I don't think anyone seriously believes they are going to take them at this point though.

Or if they're still flying at time of delivery...
 
JL418
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:33 pm

It's this kind of news that fills my heart with relief: it doesn't mean that politicians with no sense of reality aren't just an Italian prerogative.
 
Flyglobal
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:52 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 13):
However, LH can't fly the 747-8 to India either (due to restrictions on number of seats per flight).

What is the No of seats for this restriction. First I hear this. This would depend on the no of first to business to economy seats.
So if there is no race for passengers, there might be a race for quality?

regards

Flyglobal
 
ssublyme
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:52 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 6):
I doubt that Kingfisher will choose/be allowed to buy A380's.

Otherwise the GOI would have to ban them, (would'nt they).

No, GOI would just lift the restriction on A380.
 
Quokka
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:55 pm

Quoting vio (Reply 12):
So I guess the EU should now ban any Indian carrier from flying anything larger than a 737/A320

This comes as no surprise as Germany was quite happy to sign the bilateral agreement that included the clauses limiting aircraft types/ size, number of seats sold, etc. So India barring access to the A380 is in line with the current agreements. The EU restricting India to smaller aircraft would be a breach of that agreement. Of course, Germany may request changes to the agreement but such changes would have to be acceptable to both parties. Perhaps there will be further discussions behind the scenes with the normal "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours."

At present India is opposed to a change that allows the use of the A380, just as at present Germany opposes any more than four destinations to designated carriers from the UAE and Canada restricts a total of 3 per week to EK and 3 per week to EY. Oh were the world of aviation covered by the principles of free trade and Open Skies were a reality, but there are too many vested interest blocking it.

Perhaps EK could start using those 653 seats into YYZ.  
 
jfk777
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:02 pm

The EU should embargo Indian IT services, that woudl really get Dehli's eyes. The Indian airline industry is nothing compared to India's IT industry.
 
JU068
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:10 pm

Would it be realistic to see Lufthansa allowed to operate their A380 into India if they accept Air India as a member of Star Alliance?
 
LJ
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:19 pm

Quoting flyglobal (Reply 15):

What is the No of seats for this restriction. First I hear this. This would depend on the no of first to business to economy seats.
So if there is no race for passengers, there might be a race for quality?

I just looked at the seatcount for the 747-8I and if they're going to use the 386 configuration as currently on wiki then they're fine (they're allowed to offer 20,000 seats for 50 flights). However, in a thread some weeks ago someone claimed that LH would run into trouble with the 747-8I as well (which would suggest the number of seats isn't correct). Moreover the bilateral isn't clear if it's 400 seats per flight of 20,000 in total.

BTW the thread had an interesting link with all the Indian bilateral as of 2005.
 
airbazar
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:22 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
I guess the 747-8 is not seen as a threat, since in LH config it seats 41 more than their 747-400, compared to 181 with their A380-800.
And the real "threat" will be EK's two-class A380-800s with a projected 644-653 seats.

Both LH and EK are limited by the number of seats they can offer, not just the airplane type. So for LH to operate the 748i they'll have to make sure they don't go above the maximum number of seats allowed which could mean a reduction of frequencies.

This stance of the Indian gov. will only raise awareness of the A380 and make it that much more more desirable to Indian customers (what's that phase about the forbidden fruit?). Carriers can't fly the A380 to India but they can advertise their "connecting service on A380's". Thus I expect people will be paying more to fly on a carrier that lets them at least fly part way on the A380. EK via DXB or QR via DOH stand to gain from this but also AF/LH/SQ.

This could very well be the nail in the coffin for Indian carriers. If the Indian Gov. had just kept it quiet, the A380 effect would eventually go away when the novelty factor wore off. But now it's likely to intensify and have a far more detrimental effect to Indian carriers.
 
flyAUA
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:25 pm

Wow... never knew "we are in trouble, so we are going to force you to fly us instead of the competition" was ever an incentive to pick an airline. I am afraid this will result in even less traffic. Not really a solution Mr. Ravi   
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
fpetrutiu
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:34 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 21):
This stance of the Indian gov. will only raise awareness of the A380 and make it that much more more desirable to Indian customers (what's that phase about the forbidden fruit?). Carriers can't fly the A380 to India but they can advertise their "connecting service on A380's". Thus I expect people will be paying more to fly on a carrier that lets them at least fly part way on the A380. EK via DXB or QR via DOH stand to gain from this but also AF/LH/SQ.

Yeah, I somehow doubt that. I am an aviation fanatic, but would not go out of my way to fly a particular aircraft, the only exception to that rule would be that I avoid A320's, but not at all cost.
Florin
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avek00
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:53 pm

The GOI is taking the smartest approach to protecting India's economic interests.
Live life to the fullest.
 
aaexecplat
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:16 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 24):
The GOI is taking the smartest approach to protecting India's economic interests.

The problem is that while they practice protectionism at home when it suits them, they are the greatest job destroyers in the very countries they are banning from flying A380s. If I owned/ran a large German organization, I would shift my outsourcing from India to another country (i.e. Asia or eastern Europe etc). That'll drive home the point if others were to follow.
 
JAAlbert
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:17 pm

In light of the worldwide economic downturn (near collapse?) I wonder if it isn't wise to re-think this free-trade policy. In the US it has led to the loss of most manufacturing jobs - which impacts the blue collar work force. Also caused the flight of a number of white collar workers - India's IT for instance.

If I were a gov't official responsible for maintaining jobs in my country, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with a foreign airline snatching up the admin jobs - and profit - and taking it overseas with them. And what is given in return? Less employment, fewer higher paying jobs (they go overseas), but those who still do have jobs will pay $50 - $100 less for a ticket.

There's got to be a better way. These are just my musings of course.
 
jacobin777
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:27 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 9):

So any passenger travelling to India now has to continue to be squeezed into lesser aircraft? It will be interesting to see the response of Germany to this bizarre declaration.

Not sure what you mean by squeezed? Would you take J-Service in an A330 or Y in an A380?  
"Up the Irons!"
 
Gr8Circle
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:19 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 18):
The EU should embargo Indian IT services, that woudl really get Dehli's eyes. The Indian airline industry is nothing compared to India's IT industry.

Fortunately, governments operate with a little more common sense than is diplayed on a.net!

What's IT got to do with airlines...? They are two completely different sectors of the industry....why would the EU put an "embargo" on Indian IT in retaliation to a "restriction" that the Indian govt is "considering", on airlines......let's talk sense here....

And FYI, the Indian IT industry already operates in the EU and US in the face of a whole lot of hurdles around visas, etc. (which are rightfully in place to protect the interests of the respective countries)......the EU doesn't need to put any more restrictions on Indian IT.....
 
Gr8Circle
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:24 pm

Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 25):
The problem is that while they practice protectionism at home when it suits them, they are the greatest job destroyers in the very countries they are banning from flying A380s

Companies in western countries outsource manufacturing and services to the likes of China and India, because they need to do so to survive in todays markets......so, its the US and Euro based companies who are the so-called "job destroyers" by your logic.....not the other way round.....sure, India does benefit from the outsourcing, but it also provides a huge market for western made products (capital goods as well as consumer goods and services).......
 
Extra300
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:25 pm

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 28):
What's IT got to do with airlines...?



IT is the code for Kingfisher airlines
 
airbazar
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Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:43 pm

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 23):
Yeah, I somehow doubt that. I am an aviation fanatic, but would not go out of my way to fly a particular aircraft, the only exception to that rule would be that I avoid A320's, but not at all cost.

You don't have to go out of your way. BLR-DXB-JFK on EK is not out of the way. DEL-FRA-SFO on LH is not out of the way. BOM-CDG-IAD on AF is not out of the way. MAA-SIN-SYD on SQ is not out of the way. All of those will put you on an A380 and out of an Indian carrier.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:03 pm

Wait, haven't a bunch of European countries restricted how much EK can fly into their countries? Now everyone is mad at India for doing the same thing? What is different?
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Centre
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:12 pm

Quoting bastew (Thread starter):

India has 'no time frame' for permitting Airbus A380 flights into the country amid concern that travellers could desert local carriers,

So, it's true that passenger go out of their way to travel on the A380.  
I can only see this as a compliment to the A380, and not anything else.
I have cut 4 times, and it's still short.
 
na
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:16 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 32):
Wait, haven't a bunch of European countries restricted how much EK can fly into their countries? Now everyone is mad at India for doing the same thing? What is different?

The restriction with regards to EK are against a single, very aggressive carrier, which is able to sweep away several competitors when allowed whatever they want to do by sheer mountains of money.
The Indian decision is not like that, its about protecting their own, obviously incompetitive carriers which offer inadequate products, instead of setting them up against the "A380-threat" by buying A380s themselves.
 
cargolex
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:17 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 24):
The GOI is taking the smartest approach to protecting India's economic interests.

I disagree. This kind of protectionism is likely to backfire, and disadvantage Indian travelers and tourists who come to India - which creates more economic problems than it potentially solves. Yes, it might prop up the ailing Air India for awhile longer, but at what cost? And when those other countries limit what Air India can do outside of the borders of India, then it will further handicap an already struggling airline.

The GOI has the ability to take the hard steps and unpopular choices that would reform AI into something better than it is. Instead, it has chosen to blame others instead of making those (admittedly painful) choices.

India has a really competent airline - 9W. If it wants AI to be like 9W, then it needs serious self reflection. Yes - passengers are choosing EK over AI. Why is that? Everybody would rather choose their home airline if it were genuinely better. Fix AI and you won't need protectionism. If you really can't fix it (and I personally believe Air India can become a good airline), then give 9W and other native carriers the advantages and let go of AI.

These kinds of protectionist moves can also create situations that have repercussions for decades on unrelated industries - such as the "chicken tax" on Light duty trucks in the United States, a legacy of a long-forgotten trade dispute with West Germany (that alone should tell you how old this is), France, and the Netherlands about Chicken imports from the United States.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:19 pm

Quoting na (Reply 34):
The restriction with regards to EK are against a single, very aggressive carrier, which is able to sweep away several competitors when allowed whatever they want to do by sheer mountains of money.
The Indian decision is not like that, its about protecting their own, obviously incompetitive carriers which offer inadequate products, instead of setting them up against the "A380-threat" by buying A380s themselves.

Perhaps they don't see it that way. I see your point, but I can also see why they would retaliate in this way. I'm sure they'll change this rule soon, it does seem a bit desperate and even illogical (carriers can just send in some 744s...)
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
xdlx
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:20 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):

The only reason they imposed the Ban is so they have time to make the required "rubber stamps"
for that configuration.   
 
blueprithvi
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:45 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 18):
Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 25):

You guys need to cool down a bit...

India is about place 20billion dollar worth of fighter jet order to European Countries.. either EADS Typhoon or Rafael......

India has placed billions of dollar worth of orders for C-17 globemasters and C-130J.. and following it with repeat orders..

and Indian carriers despite facing hurdle right now placed billions of dollars worth of passenger liners from both Airbus and Boeing...

it is a two way street my friend...
 
victrola
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:02 pm

The restriction with regards to EK are against a single, very aggressive carrier, which is able to sweep away several competitors when allowed whatever they want to do by sheer mountains of money

Gee, I wonder how they got these sheer mountains of money. Maybe they did something terrible, like offer an efficient quality service to their customers. For the life of me I can't figure out why other airlines can't offer the same level of service and efficiency as Emirates. Let's face it, the airline industry is full of incompetents who are constantly being bailed out by the world's taxpayers. Bad airlines deserve to die. The only way you become efficient is if the alternative is death.

While such decisions may be good for the likes of Air India, the benefits accrued to that pathetic airline are far outweighed by the burdens placed on the Indian public and taxpayers, and business that are forced to use their inferior product.
 
irshava
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:20 pm

I think that completely eliminating the exploitation of the A380 in India isn't the way to go. However, the government can instead perhaps restrict the amount of A380 flights per week? (Maybe 3 or 4 a week). I'm pretty sure that not every A380 that leaves India is full and if so 600-1200 PAX (assuming two flights a day) a day is not the daily amount of passengers that fly into DEL.

Just my   
“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
 
dallasnewark
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:42 pm

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 29):
Companies in western countries outsource manufacturing and services to the likes of China and India, because they need to do so to survive in todays markets......so, its the US and Euro based companies who are the so-called "job destroyers" by your logic.....not the other way round.....sure, India does benefit from the outsourcing, but it also provides a huge market for western made products (capital goods as well as consumer goods and services).......

You are mistaken here, they are doing it to save costs, not to survive. And they often wind up paying more since outsourcing doesn't guarantee quality. The job destroyers in this case are the governments who are short sighted. And I'm not knocking India's IT professionals here, I have seen some really good ones and some really bad ones in all my years, they are just like everyone else.
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
Rbgso
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:30 pm

So, does this ultimately get resolved (and I'm certain it will be) via some well-placed grease payments, or is there something else that will bring this to an end?
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:32 pm

Quoting Extra300 (Reply 30):
Quoting gr8circle (Reply 28):
What's IT got to do with airlines...?

IT is the code for Kingfisher airlines

Haha....thanks, I know.....but, in this case, I was referring to Information Technology....

Quoting Centre (Reply 33):
So, it's true that passenger go out of their way to travel on the A380.

I did, last year.....flew from BOM to HKG via SIN just to experience the A380 on the SIN-HKG sector....  

Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 41):
You are mistaken here, they are doing it to save costs, not to survive.

So, how am I mistaken? You're saying exactly what I said and implied....western companies outsource their work to China and India because they benefit from it......they have to save costs in order to survive, else they'll be priced out of the market.....how does that make Indian companies "job destroyers"....? That's what I was saying....
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:52 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 7):
Unbelievable, from now on I will boycott my local Indian restaurant!   

Right on! I will boycott the biggest meal option in my local Indian restaurant. What right do they have to offer such meals? If they can offer largest meals, they'll sweep all the customers!

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 26):
I wonder if it isn't wise to re-think this free-trade policy. In the US it has led to the loss of most manufacturing jobs

... to India. Poetic justice for India to feel this way about foreign airlines.

Seriously though, I hope this ban ends soon. It is not right, not justifiable, and it works against India itself. And most importantly, it will not work. If EK can take the business on 380s, it can do so with 777s as well.
 
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lightsaber
Crew
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RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:07 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
I guess the 747-8 is not seen as a threat,

Many of the existing bilaterals have language restricting aircraft 'up to the size of the 747.' Since the 748 is a 747, India would have trouble not allowing what the bilateral allows.

Since there is that language in the bilaterals *and* the A380 is larger, India is 'not breaking contract' banning the A388.


See page 48 (or search for "Germany")
http://dgca.nic.in/bilateral/Bilateral.pdf

In other words, if India allows the 748, no bilaterals are violated and other parts of the bilateral that determine more Indian jobs are not rescinded. If India Does not allow the 748 to India, than Germany is allowed to impose penalties, as per the bilateral (no, I don't know what they are) on AI.

India has not allowed the A388, therefore no bilateral is violated. Thus if Germany (or the UAE) tried to penalize India, they would be violating their part of the bilateral.

Ghad, I could never be a lawyer. I understand the rules, I couldn't write them.   

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 2):
Would IT and 9W be struggling so much if AI was just allowed to die by the GOI? Honest question here people....

   Yea, IT might survive.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
Don't let common sense get in the way of Indian politics

It doesn't.   

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 18):
The EU should embargo Indian IT services, that woudl really get Dehli's eyes. The Indian airline industry is nothing compared to India's IT industry.

Won't happen. Germany/EU would be violating the bilaterals with India if they did that. India is just *not* expanding bilaterals to include the A380. While that makes the press, it isn't worth a tade war. If the EU is welcome to offer something to India/GOI to persuade them to ammend the bilateral to include the A388 and whatever India wants... Until an agreed upon price is arrived at, there will be no change.   (By price, new addition to the bilateral to help the Indian economy enough to sacrifice what is left of AI.)

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
shanxz
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:17 pm

RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:17 pm

Quoting bastew (Thread starter):
India has 'no time frame' for permitting Airbus A380 flights into the country amid concern that travellers could desert local carriers, aviation minister Vayalar Ravi said yesterday. "If we allow the biggest aircraft to land here, they'll sweep up all the passengers," he said.

Unbelievably myopic approach! Makes me feel really, really sad as an Indian!
Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
 
David_itl
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:24 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 45):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
I guess the 747-8 is not seen as a threat,

Many of the existing bilaterals have language restricting aircraft 'up to the size of the 747.' Since the 748 is a 747, India would have trouble not allowing what the bilateral allows.

If I were EK, I think I'd make a Corsair a very lucrative deal to wet-lease at least 1 of their 747s.... the ones that seat 580. Perhaps India will then see how stupid this ban on the A380 is.
 
Cessna172RG
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:31 am

RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:29 pm

I think we should ban all Indian aircraft that depart Indian airspace, bound for other countries, on the basis of this:

-If the aircraft departs from an Indian airfield.
-If the aircraft carries passengers.
-If the aircraft has engines.
-If the aircraft has a pilot.
-If the aircraft is airborne.

Banning the A380 on the basis of "scooping up all the passengers"...hah...that's funny. That's like keeping all the fat people out of McDonalds...don't you want to make money at the end of the day? All those people coming into India to travel help to contribute to the economy, and all the passengers going out...well...they're probably running for their lives. Oh well.
Save the whales...for dinner!!!
 
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lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 12038
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Indian Govt: Indefinite Ban On A380 To India

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:29 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 45):
See page 48 (or search for "Germany")
http://dgca.nic.in/bilateral/Bilater...l.pdf

Sorry to quote myself, but it looks like Australia and Korea has the right to fly any aircraft they chose to India (of nations likely to have their airlines fly the A380). So there would be diplomatic issues if denied rights. Of course, that would require QF to pull seats from other routes and thus is very unlikely. Korea is trying to expand the bilateral (MAA and possibly other Indian cities), so they are unlikely to 'rock the boat.'

If any US operator flies the A380, they would have legal right to fly to India. In that case, India would have a bilateral issue if they kept a US carrier's A380 out of India. Not likely to happen (US operator fly the A380), but the legal footwork has been laid.  

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain

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