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AirlineCritic
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BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:58 pm

Not sure what I should think of this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...es-in-surviving-plane-crashes.html

Quote:

Members of the airline’s Executive Club will be able to benefit from a four-hour session on air safety, when the scheme begins next year.

For around £125 – roughly the same cost as a return trip from London Gatwick to Rome – those who sign up to the courses can learn techniques to increase their chances of surviving a crash.

I wonder though if the courses are available on AY miles  
 
bennett123
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:10 pm

Sounds a bit drastic.

I tend to board with the expectation of NOT crashing,  
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:23 pm

This is not really encouraging!

Especially coming from a reputable and prestigious airline such as British Airways.

 Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
U2380
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:24 pm

Are BA expecting some crashes in the future then !?

Sounds like a great way to put the unknowledgeable public off flying more than anything.

It can't be a good long term business move!  
 
Elevated
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:25 pm

If only every passenger was required to take this class...they might understand our job and why why ask for such strict compliance. Like why objects cannot go the floor in certain rows, PEDs must be off on certain phases of flight, laptops not on the lap or stuffed in seat pockets, wearing shorts and flip-flops to fly in is ridiculous if you have to evac. There's a reason for everything and it's preparing the cabin for that one chance the plane wont make it.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:48 pm

Quoting Elevated (Reply 4):


If only every passenger was required to take this class...they might understand our job and why why ask for such strict compliance. Like why objects cannot go the floor in certain rows, PEDs must be off on certain phases of flight, laptops not on the lap or stuffed in seat pockets, wearing shorts and flip-flops to fly in is ridiculous if you have to evac. There's a reason for everything and it's preparing the cabin for that one chance the plane wont make it.

Agreed. If I was BA I would give pax who complete the course a 25% discount of their next flight.

Lets face it, 99% of pax out there are clueless as to what to do in an emergency.
 
1stfl94
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:21 pm

Quoting AirlineCritic (Thread starter):
Quote:

Members of the airline’s Executive Club will be able to benefit from a four-hour session on air safety, when the scheme begins next year.

For around £125 – roughly the same cost as a return trip from London Gatwick to Rome – those who sign up to the courses can learn techniques to increase their chances of surviving a crash.

£125 to learn how to put your head between your knees and kiss your a*se goodbye!

Or alternatively read the safety card and watch the demo.
 
WNCrew
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:29 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5):

Lets face it, 99% of pax out there are clueless as to what to do in an emergency.

Yes, they're clueless to a lot of things, but quick to look for a place to point the finger when something goes awry as a result of their own cluelessness. SO MUCH of the traveling experience is affected by the travelER themselves;

SECURITY
-What are you wearing?
-Do you know the rules?
-Is your belt, jewelry, etc already off or were you standing in line on your phone checked out of the entire process?

BOARDING
-Are you listening to the announcements in the gate or on your phone, ipod, laptop?
-Have you used the LARGER and CLEANER restrooms provided by the airport prior to boarding?
-How much luggage do you have? Are you carrying a manageable amount or trying to bring as much as possible?
-Can you lift your luggage on your own? You packed it...
-Are you boarding when asked... it helps EVERYONE if you do.
-Are you STILL on your phone while looking for your seat, trying to take off your jecket, stowing your luggage?
-Does your bag fit? Can YOU lift it?

CABIN SECURING for PUSHBACK
-Have you actually listened to the FA's making PA's?
-If so, have you stowed your hand-bags, turned off electronics, fastened seatbelts?
-If you're in an exit seat are you aware of it? If so, you do know there will be a briefing from a crewmember yes?
-If you're in a bulkhead seat have you looked at the placard in front of you asking that you not stow luggage at your feet?

I realize the airlines are FAR FAR FAR from perfect, I spend more time on "the airlines" than most other human beings so I understand, but I also spend more time around more passengers than almost anyone else so I see that side too and a lot of things are well within our control... we just CHOOSE not to partake in them. Our society is checked out, turned off, not engaged. While the process of traveling can be stressful, there's a lot that I see people just ignore. People don't read rules, they don't prepare themselves, they don't ask questions, they don't LISTEN to anything that is said which create frustration when they're having to be asked again and again later to comply with someone that was already covered (for their benefit) 3 times earlier.

When I do ANYTHING in life I prepare myself. I know the restrictions, the rules, the process etc as much as I can because it's common sense and good judgement. I don't just show up and throw my arms up. THAT is what many travelers do.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
airport1970
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:08 am

Corporate security for BP got this started as a pro-active practice to protect its employees. Pretty smart. Send your most traveling employees to a course designed to drill procedures in case of an emergency and not only do they stand a better chance of a surviving a crash... it is a benefit to the airlines as they have PAX on board that know the drill and might actually help in an emergency by doing the right thing....

Read this and listen to the accompanying podcast...

WSJ- "Training for a Plane Crash "

Top
 
airport1970
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:16 am

Sorry something going on with my previous post linkage....
do a google for "Training for a Plane Crash - WSJ.com"

"On the US Airways Hudson River landing in 2009, only 10 of 150 passengers thought to grab a life jacket before evacuating, and only about half took a seat cushion for floatation,"

"Smoke training was the most important exercise. In a smoke chamber heated to simulate real conditions, participants stood up in a cabin filling with smoke and realized how quickly they became disoriented. The more they moved around, the more the smoke distributed through the cabin—like stirring a pot. Drop down low and get out fast.
"It is possibly one of the most frightening things you will ever experience," said Sue Thorne"




[Edited 2011-10-05 01:18:51]

[Edited 2011-10-05 01:22:24]
 
chieft
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:29 am

Anybody who attended that course and survived a crash?

The only way to find out, if it makes sense...
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:51 am

Clearly the airlines will sell anything to generate some cash! Talk about outside the box Ancillary Revenue

We thought baggage fees, drinks, snacks, extra legroom etc were the limit we forgot survival courses. I wonder if they will sell this on their website during the ticket booking process as an extra add-on LOL. Check this box to add baggage, check this box to add premium seats, check this box to add crash survival course to your itinerary.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:51 pm

Quoting AirlineCritic (Thread starter):
those who sign up to the courses can learn techniques to increase their chances of surviving a crash.

Am I reading this correctly, the airline know of techniques to increase passenger safety in the event of a crash landing, but will only tell them once they have handed over £125.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
chieft
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:00 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 11):
we forgot survival courses. I wonder if they will sell this on their website during the ticket booking process as an extra add-on LOL. Check this box to add baggage, check this box to add premium seats, check this box to add crash survival course to your itinerary.

Well, that will increase trust in the safety of the airline....

Check this for baggage
Check this crash survival course
Check this for life insurance
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
speedbird9
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:51 pm

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 6):
£125 to learn how to put your head between your knees and kiss your a*se goodbye!

Or alternatively read the safety card and watch the demo.

exactly its just a revenue source and perhaps if they extend it beyond Exec club members it would encourage people to fly ( maybe they have a fear of flying) if they thought they had better chance of surviving
 
airport1970
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:33 am

My god, Grow up and find some critical thinking skills.
Posters actually think that this is some sort of profit center?
Do posters really believe a program that charges 125 to a handful of people will make a difference to the profitability of an airline?
Find and read the story I described in the Wall Street Journal I tried to post a link to. And listen to the audio portion also.
 
lhr380
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:39 am

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 6):
Or alternatively read the safety card and watch the demo.

Which a lot of people dont. I fly a lot and as soon as the demo starts I stop reading and watch. Guy next to me on my flight yesterday just kept reading the paper and I noticed a few others doing the same thing.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
dc10bhx
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:09 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 16):
Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 6):
Or alternatively read the safety card and watch the demo.


Which a lot of people dont. I fly a lot and as soon as the demo starts I stop reading and watch. Guy next to me on my flight yesterday just kept reading the paper and I noticed a few others doing the same thing.

Well I have been flying since I was 5 (now 43) and it was drummed into me by my parents to pay attention to the safety announcements on each flight. Now I realise that this is because you stand a very good chance of being on a different aircraft for each journey. This is now a habit I am instilling into my children when we fly. They have actually told someone off for not listening to the FA during the announcement (that got a smile from the FA and a very red face from the passenger who was reading his paper). I just turned around to him and said that if he could not leave his paper alone for three minutes prior to a flight lasting an hour and a half it was a retty poor show. Come to think of it I cannot recall paying for the drinks on that flight!!!

I have even turned part of boarding the flight into a game for the children by giving a prize to the first one who can tell me how many rows are between our seats and the nearest emergency exit. It is amazing how many people think that they have to get out of the door they went through on boarding.
I'm lucky my job is my hobby
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:47 pm

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 6):
£125 to learn how to put your head between your knees and kiss your a*se goodbye!

No the money is for the use of the cabin training simulator, where you get to open the doors and go down the slides.
This course has been running for a few years. It was started for an oil company who send their employees out on small airlines and needed them to have the best chance of survival.
 
tonystan
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:38 pm

If they get enough of the FFs to do this course maybe WW can cut back on training of cabin crews and get the passengers to do the job for them....watch out people, before you know it you will be getting your own damned bird seeds from the galley!!!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
kaitak
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:17 pm

It's kind of ironic; the one thing they won't say to their premium passengers is "sit near the back"!
 
bonusonus
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:03 pm

Quoting dc10bhx (Reply 17):
I just turned around to him and said that if he could not leave his paper alone for three minutes prior to a flight lasting an hour and a half it was a retty poor show. Come to think of it I cannot recall paying for the drinks on that flight!!!

Paying attention to the safety breifing is important, but to be fair, they are more the same than they are different. Perhaps the man with the newspaper flies hundreds of legs a year, so maybe he's been on this airline and this type 500+ times. I would be kind of upset if I was minding my own business and someone who wasn't a crew member told me to pay attention to the safety breifing.
 
dc10bhx
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:11 am

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 21):
Paying attention to the safety breifing is important, but to be fair, they are more the same than they are different. Perhaps the man with the newspaper flies hundreds of legs a year, so maybe he's been on this airline and this type 500+ times. I would be kind of upset if I was minding my own business and someone who wasn't a crew member told me to pay attention to the safety breifing.

Not half as upset as I would be if this berk had held either me or my family up during an evacuation!!!

I pay attention to the safety briefing each time I hear it onboard. I have travelled extensively on different airlines and different aircraft. Yes OK I consider myself to be an aircraft geek (I have worked in the aviation industry for over 27 years) but I do not know the exit configurations of all the aircraft I would potentially be flying on. If someone ignores the briefing and causes a delay they could (and I emphasise could) endanger everyone else around them. The briefing is given for a reason and I think that people should pay the attention that is asked of them. (RANT over).
I'm lucky my job is my hobby
 
Markhkg
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:57 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 20):
the one thing they won't say to their premium passengers is "sit near the back"!

For survivable air crashes (i.e fuselage is intact), the safest seats are near the exit row. Which is in many cases are now reserved for premium passengers!  

Good historical examples for these being the "safest" seats are the Manchester air disaster involving a B-737 or the Air Canada lav fire on a DC-9.

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 16):
I fly a lot and as soon as the demo starts I stop reading and watch.

That's great you do that. Frequent fliers are sometimes lulled into thinking they know the aircraft safety drill, but there are a remarkable number of variations in safety equipment on aircraft. A few I can think off the top of my head:

- Does the oxygen mask require you to pull down on the mask? (No longer required on 787 aircraft!) Does the mask require you to remove a plastic holder before using it? (As seen on Embraer aircraft.)

- Does the overwing exit (if equipped) require you to pull the hatch in, or does the hatch swing out (i.e. B-737-NG)?

- Where are you supposed to go if you use an overwing exit? (A surprising number of people will walk towards the outboard wing. Some people may expect to see a slide when it does not exist, like on a B-737. During a ditching, most airlines suggest sliding off the leading edge of the wing as the flaps may be damaged. A few biz-jets safety procedures require passengers to slide off the leading edge during all evacuations.)

- Does the aircraft have slide/rafts equipped at doors, or does a life raft need to be retrieved?

- Does you life jacket have a single strap, or "D" clips (or maybe no clip at all - i.e. tie a bow-tie around your waist)? Does it have a whistle? Does it have one chamber or two?

- How will your children be given life preservers? (Flotation cot or life jacket?)

There are certainly many, many variations among different aircraft in a fleet so again, good on you for paying attention!

Quoting airport1970 (Reply 9):
"On the US Airways Hudson River landing in 2009, only 10 of 150 passengers thought to grab a life jacket before evacuating, and only about half took a seat cushion for floatation,"

Personally, what surprised me most about this accident was that MANY passengers did not know what to do when the "brace for impact" announcement was made. It was really up to the flight attendants to shout "Bend Over! Heads Down! Stay Down!" (which is part of the required drill) to make sure people knew what position to adopt. (Although the brace position is made fun of saying it's the kiss your butt goodbye position it is in fact critical in avoiding head injuries that may otherwise incapacitate an unbraced passenger).
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
lhr380
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:59 am

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 21):
Paying attention to the safety breifing is important, but to be fair, they are more the same than they are different. Perhaps the man with the newspaper flies hundreds of legs a year, so maybe he's been on this airline and this type 500+ times. I would be kind of upset if I was minding my own business and someone who wasn't a crew member told me to pay attention to the safety breifing.

But he wont have sat in the same seat on every plane in the fleet that could have slight differences in cabin size or god knows what else. What if a door is blocked off and its pointed out but he's paying too much attention to the Times to bother watching or listening (That's what the guy was reading on my flight on Wednesday)

Id be kind of upset (and I was) that a tannoy is made asking for your attention for a very important message and someone does not take 2!!! minutes out of there BUSY schedules to watch the crew and or video.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
maxair
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:36 am

I've already been sent on this course by my Company and have to say it was great. You get to do all sorts of things in a cabin simulator :

Opening a AC door
Opening an overwing exit
Use an emergency slide
Taught the correct brace position
Simulated aborted take off and evacuation
Evacuation of a smoke filled cabin

All the trainer were crew or ex crew so gave us lots of tips and even as a frequent flier I came away with lots to think about.
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: BA Offers Courses For Surviving A Crash

Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:27 pm

Quoting Maxair (Reply 25):
Opening a AC door
Opening an overwing exit
Use an emergency slide
Taught the correct brace position
Simulated aborted take off and evacuation
Evacuation of a smoke filled cabin

All the trainer were crew or ex crew so gave us lots of tips and even as a frequent flier I came away with lots to think about.

That sounds like a very interesting course. I wish I could go...