HeeseokKoo
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Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:30 am

Korean air will begin ICN-LGW on March 27th (28th from LGW), 2012, using 772.

KE909 ICN-LGW 1840-2250 772 D246
KE910 LGW-ICN 1030-0525+1 772 D357

It will nicely compliment its current daily LHR flight,
KE907 ICN-LHR 1330-1715 747 D
KE908 LHR-ICN 1935-1420+1 747 D

KE recently awarded 3/w flight right and I didn't expect KE will use them for LGW route. Possibly due to slot issue? 2250 arrival seems too tight for the LGW curfew (if it begins at 2300). Congrat for LGW, though !!

Source: Amadeus

[Edited 2011-10-05 08:30:24 by SA7700]
 
mdavies06
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:48 am

This is quite unexpected. Apart from LGW itself (AFAIK only VN flies to LGW as an East Asia based carrier), why would KE let the a/c sits in LGW for a whole night? Can they not make the outbound a red eye flight (which is in theory possible given that ICN is open 24 hours a day). I would have thought that a red eye westbound flight would be a nice contrast to the existing daily flight.

Now what would be nice to see in the near future are:
1. BA to launch LHR-ICN using some of their new slots from BD
2. KE or OZ or both to launch A380 services to LHR

congrat to LGW and KE!

[Edited 2011-10-04 22:52:19]
 
777way
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:51 am

They served LGW in the 80s early 90's didnt they?
 
hoons90
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:57 am

Now that's what I call a shocker!

I wonder if they have plans to restart EWR as well.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:04 am

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 1):
Can they not make the outbound a red eye flight (which is in theory possible given that ICN is open 24 hours a day). I would have thought that a red eye westbound flight would be a nice contrast to the existing daily flight.

Given the time differences involved, it's almost impossible to have a LON-Asia redeye flight. As it is, the LGW-ICN flight arrives at 5 AM, making it a suitable flight for business travelers arriving into ICN.

The LHR flight leaves fairly early in the evening and arrives in the afternoon ...

When I fly back from JNB to TPE, the flight leaves JNB around midday and arrives in HKG at 7 AM. Taking time differences into account, the flight occupies 18+ hours of the day (conversely, going home, the flight occupies barely six hours of the day).
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:10 am

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Thread starter):
KE recently awarded 3/w flight right and I didn't expect KE will use them for LGW route. Possibly due to slot issue?

I do find it interesting they aren't flying into LHR. With the flight timing,the added frequency should pay for the slot pair. What am I missing?

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
santos
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:22 am

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Thread starter):
2250 arrival seems too tight for the LGW curfew (if it begins at 2300). Congrat for LGW, though !!

I have landed in LGW from AMM at 00:15am Scheduled Flight.
Lots of other arrivals at that time, FAO, NAP, AGP, ALC etc....
What time is the Curfew at LGW?

Great new route by the way. The new team at LGW is doing a great job in catching new routes.
 
gkirk
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:46 am

Quoting santos (Reply 6):

No curfew at LGW AFAIK?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
mdavies06
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:56 am

Quoting brenintw (Reply 4):
Given the time differences involved, it's almost impossible to have a LON-Asia redeye flight. As it is, the LGW-ICN flight arrives at 5 AM, making it a suitable flight for business travelers arriving into ICN.

I am referring to the westbound,

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Thread starter):

KE909 ICN-LGW 1840-2250 772 D246

I would make it KE909 ICN-LGW 0200-0610 if I can freely choose.

But having thought about it a bit more, maybe this flight as it stands is designed to catch certain flights which arrives into ICN between 1pm and 6pm. Perhaps KE has a wave of arrivals from secondaries cities in China and Japan that would benefit from this? Perhaps their Aussie flights connect into this service as well?
 
skipness1E
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:27 am

There is no LGW curfew as the slightest glance at arrivals and departured on the website will tell you. I would expect this to operate from LHR as soon as slots become available. Indeed NZ's AKL-HKG-LHR was sold from LGW at first but was never operated from Surrey International as they managed to get LHR slots late in the day.
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:26 am

Great - this flight finally allows you to go SYD-LON without having to spend a night in ICN. Pretty good connections each way now - into LGW and back from LHR.
 
B747-4U3
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:07 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 9):

There is no LGW curfew as the slightest glance at arrivals and departured on the website will tell you. I would expect this to operate from LHR as soon as slots become available. Indeed NZ's AKL-HKG-LHR was sold from LGW at first but was never operated from Surrey International as they managed to get LHR slots late in the day.

That would make sense however there are two things that may keep the flight at LGW:

a) 1030 is prime time at LHR - especially for flights to the USA. It may be difficult to obtain a slot here for a reasonable price.

b) The flight spends a lot of time on the ground. Parking costs may be cheaper at LGW. (I would expect the LGW's management were quite keen to get this flight and therefore may have offered significant incentives to choose LGW).

c) The flight times seem odd. There must be a reason for this - which is that they maximise connectivity at ICN. If KE can't get similar flight times from LHR then they may not move the flight because the slots that are available at LHR (and there are some) may not be at suitable time to maintain the connections at ICN. I believe that KE could have quite easily obtained slots at LHR but they would have been at similar times to their current flights.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:57 am

Wow, this is pretty awesome news for the airport...

First off we had the announcement of Vietnam Airlines starting services from the airport, then Air Asia X announced they were moving ops to the airport and now Korean Air!

I also remember reading a few months back an all business class airline intends to begin flights from HKG to LGW too, which is due to start sometime next year, using an A330-200.

Would be interesting to see if these sort of routes would have started up, if BAA were still the owners?

Plus they have also managed to attract the like of LH to the airport, offering a feeder service FRA!

Not a bad years work for an airport, like LGW attracting these major carriers, along with the numerous new routes U2 has started from the airport.
 
HUYfan
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:03 pm

This is very unexpected, but wonderful news. I'm not sure it will work with Air Asia and Vietnam offering some very attractive Asia/Australia fares. I would have thought that the A330-200 would have been a better aircraft to launch the route with. One thing is certain, since the new LGW management took over, the whole place is looking a damn sight better, and they seem to be going all out to attract new airline clients with Asia firmly on the map. Next on their hitlist has to be the US.

Regards

Mike
 
fcogafa
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:13 pm

From the Gatwick site...
===============================
Isn’t it against the law to fly at night?

There has never been a night ban at Gatwick. All the aircraft using Gatwick Airport during the night are operated in accordance with the night restrictions set by the Department for Transport (DfT). The DfT imposes restrictions on night flights to preserve a balance between the need to protect local communities from excessive noise and the operation of services where they provide economic benefit. The decision to allow night flights, therefore, is a policy matter for the Government.

What are the noise restrictions for night flights?

The most recent restrictions were introduced in October 2006 and consist of:

a maximum number of flights during each season (11,200 in summer and 3,250 in winter) between 23:30 and 06:00
a supplementary quota system to encourage the use of quieter aircraft. Aircraft types are given a Quota Count (QC) value, according to how much noise they make on landing and take-off. These are: QC 0.25, QC0.5, QC1, QC2, QC4, QC8 and QC16, which is the noisiest category. Aircraft movements score QC values against a maximum allowable quota for each season (6,700 for summer and 2,300 for winter) between 23:30 and 06:00, ‘the night quota period’
aircraft of QC4 cannot be scheduled to operate between 23:30 and 06:00
aircraft of QC16 and QC8 cannot be scheduled to operate between 23:00 and 07:00.
 
LGWflyer
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:55 pm

Wow this is brilliant news! Well done to GIP for getting all these new airlines in! Wonder who will be next to come to LGW...
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
EUflyer
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:46 pm

I would be guessing that the flight crew who operate from ICN will ovenight at LGW and fly it back the next day to help keep cre costs down.

Great news to have more long haul flights from LGW, how long until an airline decides to cross the pond again?
 
skipness1E
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:40 pm

Quoting EUFlyer (Reply 16):
I would be guessing that the flight crew who operate from ICN will ovenight at LGW and fly it back the next day to help keep cre costs down.

Dear God I hope not !
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:49 pm

Will this flight operate from North Terminal?
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
GT4EZY
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:34 pm

Quoting EUFlyer (Reply 16):
I would be guessing that the flight crew who operate from ICN will ovenight at LGW and fly it back the next day to help keep cre costs down.

Great news to have more long haul flights from LGW, how long until an airline decides to cross the pond again?

Less than 12 hours rest after an Asia-Europe sector? I don't think so. Anyone ever heard of Flight time limitations?
Besides, certainly on long haul, nightstopping costs aren't what you expect and if they cause a problem to the profitability of the route then the route is probably on life support anyway. Of course, airlines don't nightstop crew needlessly but when there is a need then so be it.

It takes me back to a thread a while back where posters were thinking of wacky one stop transatlantic routes for LCC's so that they wouldn't have to nightstop crews. If they did it, they'd just take the nightstop costs on in the same way they currently do.....albeit on a limited basis.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 11):
The flight times seem odd. There must be a reason for this - which is that they maximise connectivity at ICN.

The flight times didn't seem odd, it is LGW vs. LHR.

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 19):
nightstopping costs aren't what you expect and if they cause a problem to the profitability of the route then the route is probably on life support anyway. Of course, airlines don't nightstop crew needlessly but when there is a need then so be it.

Hotel costs have been known to make routes non-viable versus the competition. While the total costs are only a few thousand a flight... that adds up. We're talking 12 to 16 hotel rooms, per diam, etc.

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 11):
1030 is prime time at LHR

Ahhh...

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 13):
I would have thought that the A330-200

That depends on the cargo. The 77E would have better cargo lift ICN-LGW than the A332. KE is also short on A332s.  

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
jfk777
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:43 pm

This is unique for LGW in these days. They haven't had a flight to Asia in years, since 1991 when LHR opened.
 
GT4EZY
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:48 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 20):
Hotel costs have been known to make routes non-viable versus the competition. While the total costs are only a few thousand a flight... that adds up. We're talking 12 to 16 hotel rooms, per diam, etc.

Not even that. We're probably talking less than a grand.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
skipness1E
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:52 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):
This is unique for LGW in these days. They haven't had a flight to Asia in years, since 1991 when LHR opened.

They did have Oasis Hong Kong since then. btw Heathrow opened in 1946 not 1991. 1991 was the year the government tore up the 1977 Traffic Distribution Rules for the London airports.

This is not KE serving LGW as a new market, this is clearly an annoying stop gap until they get they're way slotwise at LHR. Enough money has been spent by SkyTeam at T4 to make sure of that.
 
777way
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:27 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 23):
This is not KE serving LGW as a new market,

Does that mean KE did not serve LGW back in the 80's early 90s?

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):
They haven't had a flight to Asia in years, since 1991 when LHR opened.

You mean STN in 1990.
 
TeamintheSky
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:10 am

I saw the VN advertisement from Gatwick at Tottenham Court Road Tube station last night. Hopefully they will put a KE advertisement up for LGW too. I would love if all Skyteam members started flying a couple routes out of Gatwick as I prefer to use that airport over LHR.
Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6, AT, US, AY, BE, EI, LG, AZ, 9W, SG, AA, JL, W6
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:25 am

This flight also connects nicely for flights from BNE, MEL, AKL and Nadi (as well as SYD previously mentioned).
 
skipness1E
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:01 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 23):
This is not KE serving LGW as a new market,

They did used to fly from LHR before they got into LHR, I mean they are not trying to serve a different part of the London market by serving Gatwick, this is stop-gap until they can get it into LHR.

btw STN opened long before 1990, it was a USAF base in the war and the home of Channel Airways, that is the opening date of the new terminal building on the other side of the runway.
 
jet72uk
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:10 am

I don't see why this is such a surprise to everyone. LGW management have said publicly many times that it will attract more carriers in. This is proving to be correct. Without the shackles of BAA, they can do what they like with fees, incentives etc. I'm sure many more will join Korean, Vietnam, Air Asia, Lufthansa, etc over the next 18 months or so.
 
777way
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:13 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 27):

They did used to fly from LHR

LGW you mean   thanks for the STN info.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:42 am

Quoting jet72uk (Reply 28):
Without the shackles of BAA, they can do what they like with fees, incentives etc. I'm sure many more will join Korean, Vietnam, Air Asia, Lufthansa, etc over the next 18 months or so.

You are quite wrong, this is not what LGW have said at all. They realise that any long haul carrier will be off to LHR first chance and so while this is good, you are fooling yourself if you think Korean Air are going to the expense of having a two airport London operation when they have their own expensive Skyteam facilities at LHR's T4.

Lufthansa didn't discover the joy of LGW, they are trying to make sure EZY don't get a foot in at FRA, that is the core strategy there, like American at STN, if that's dealt with, they'll be offski. As for Vietnam Airlines, first sniff of a decent LHR slot and they'll be away too, they have been actively trying to source something affordable and workable.

I love LGW but I am a realist, as are the management who are not saying that the future lies with more legacy and long haul, their strategy is loco and leisure, much as it's always been.
 
A340600
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:46 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 30):

Much as I am sure there is truth in both sides here, how people speak with such authority on this site is always greatly amusing. Do you have personal meetings with all of these airlines on the subject of London airports? Gatwick management have always said they will try and attract long haul traffic, it's been in the press many times. Whether they think they can hold the customers long term is indeed debatable, as I am sure they realise, but running an airport with a "realist" attitude such as yours is surely a terrible business decision, no?
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
skipness1E
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:28 pm

Quoting A340600 (Reply 31):
Do you have personal meetings with all of these airlines on the subject of London airports?

Been an enthusiast around these parts for 21 years and I work in the industry and follow it closely. In doing so I point out that a long haul route from XYZ-LHR has consistently been reported to make +% more then XYZ-LGW due to more passengers joining at LHR due to it's hub status. Most airlines, Continental being the most recent, saying they will serve both airports, change their mind when the numbers come in after a few months of dual operation.

Best example on here is the many people praising BA for LGW-JFK coming back when it was slot sitting at the JFK end for the new LCY service. Nothing fundamental has changed, the fact that Air Asia moved from airport#3 (STN) to #2LGW proves that.
 
jet72uk
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:47 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 30):
You are quite wrong, this is not what LGW have said at all. They realise that any long haul carrier will be off to LHR first chance and so while this is good, you are fooling yourself if you think Korean Air are going to the expense of having a two airport London operation when they have their own expensive Skyteam facilities at LHR's T4.

Actually skipness1E you are quite wrong as I and A300 have stated the LGW management can lure airlines in. They are not all waiting for LHR slots!
 
skipness1E
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:52 pm

Quoting jet72uk (Reply 33):
Actually skipness1E you are quite wrong as I and A300 have stated the LGW management can lure airlines in. They are not all waiting for LHR slots!

Lets list airlines who would choose LGW over LHR given slots?

Only SK and MA are legacy short haul at LGW, MA because they needed cash and sold LHR slots, SK as it's an old BU route that they don't want to make room for at LHR. GIven the route is Bergen and that BMI have just launched it from LHR, if BMI do go, I bet that route moves to LHR too. MA can't afford slots.

UK package and loco have no interest in LHR.

Specifically we are looking at Air Asia, Vietnam Airlines and Korean Air. Air Asia are a "loco" and having said how great and succesful STN was, they left for LGW. I doubt they'd try LHR. However on past performance, in the market, long haul like KE and VN undeniably performs better out of LHR. I repeat, this is why dual ops failed when NW and CO tried it and the reason DL are still at LGW is that the early ATL can't get a morning slot at LHR.

Are you really saying that if Vietnam and Korean get the sniff of slots at LHR, they won't move. All LGW can counter with is price and with the capital investment they're putting in place they can't do that forever. Anyway, here's my bet, both KE and VN at LGW for less than 24 months.
 
Ychocky
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:06 pm

Wow! Seoul direct to Crawley!

Just kidding, very good news for the new owners of Gatwick. Good to see them attract a new carrier.
 
babybus
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 2):
They served LGW in the 80s early 90's didnt they?

Yes they did. I think it was mainly due to the Korean Olympics and then stopped some time after that. I was at LGW for KE's first flight there.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 14):
There has never been a night ban at Gatwick. All the aircraft using Gatwick Airport during the night are operated in accordance with the night restrictions set by the Department for Transport (DfT).

I believe you can land there any time of the night you like, but you can't take-off after 11.30pm.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
jet72uk
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:56 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 34):

LHR is full and with no 3rd runway ever likely to happen, airlines cannot expand there. As I have stated before, the new LGW management are doing a great job at luring airlines in.
 
LGWflyer
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:13 pm

Quoting Ychocky (Reply 35):
Wow! Seoul direct to Crawley!

Haha yay!!!
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
skipness1E
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:50 pm

Airlines have been expanding at LHR since 1991, believe me when bmi goes there'll be slots at a price. Look at all the new airlines since 1991.
 
jet72uk
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:32 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 9):

BTW skipness - LGW is in West Sussex and not Surrey.
 
Eljonno
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:44 pm

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 38):
Quoting Ychocky (Reply 35):Wow! Seoul direct to Crawley!Haha yay!!!

Whoop! I've always said Crawley has an impressively large airport for it's population...
 
LGWflyer
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:47 pm

Quoting eljonno (Reply 41):
Whoop! I've always said Crawley has an impressively large airport for it's population...

Oh yeah! Busiest single runway airport in the world which is part of my hometown Crawley - population 100,000.
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
mdavies06
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:42 am

If there is no complete ban on aircraft movements between 2300-0600, then how come LGW doesn't see more movements then they do now? Are all the quotas used up?

I am just wondering if any airlines are interested in launching LGW-US routes overnight during these hours. I mean if BA/AA have hourly departure between 0830-2000 from LHR to NYC (just as an example), surely there is demand for a redeye westbound from LON (which will be from LGW as LHR has a complete curfew)?
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:12 am

The only way Gatwick will ever compete with Heathrow is if they get a second runway and that is unlikely to happen although it is the one airport in the world that probably needs it.

Single runway operations are far too volatile at the moment as it doesn't take much for there to be delays.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
skipness1E
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:27 am

In all honesty if there was demand someone would be making money

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 43):
If there is no complete ban on aircraft movements between 2300-0600, then how come LGW doesn't see more movements then they do now? Are all the quotas used up?

GIven the choice of travelling at dark o'clock from London's second airport or a civilised time out of Heathrow, there's only one winner.
 
gabrielchew
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:31 am

Great news from KE. Hopefully, there'll be some good intro fares.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 45):
GIven the choice of travelling at dark o'clock from London's second airport or a civilised time out of Heathrow, there's only one winner.

I've always been surpised that there isn't an early morning LHR-JFK flight on BA. Something like LHR 0600-0845 JFK. A nice early morning flight that can get you to the office in the morning.
http://my.flightmemory.com/shefgab Upcoming flights: LGW-OPO-LGW,LHR-FCO-CTA-LIN-LCY,LHR-AMS-GRQ-SEN,LTN-CPH-LHR-ORD
 
alasdair1982
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:44 am

[quote=HUYfan,reply=13]I'm not sure it will work with Air Asia and Vietnam offering some very attractive Asia/Australia fares./quote]

When looking at all options for flights to KUL from the UK, Air Asia were way too expensive compared to EK and KL.
 
jet72uk
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RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:32 pm

Skipness1E gets a lot of things wrong in his posts.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Korean Air To Launch LGW

Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:01 pm

Happy to debate with you on a point by point basis if you like. What are you adding to the thread? I will honestly tell you why LGW won't be this brave new world and I will refer you to relevant historical parallels and challenge you to answer why doing the same thing yet again won't return the same result. You say LGW can lure new operators? Agreed! Air Asia and Norwegian from STN are great additions, no doubt they'll do well. Korean Air and Vietnam Airlines, long haul carriers, non loco. I honestly don't see that as a long term addition at LGW, particularly Skyteam's KE who need to extract as much back from their investment at LHR T4 as possible. I would love to have added AB to the above list as well but that's all going wrong, not due to LGW. Worth remembering LGW lost QR only recently and EY before them citing better yields at LHR, indeed QR went to MAN. Now only the mighty EK remains. Incidentally, anyone know when Pier One closes? Fancy one last trip down memory lane.

[Edited 2011-10-07 14:10:27]

[Edited 2011-10-07 14:12:51]