United Airline
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Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:49 pm

Very sad to learn that HKG-LHR, BKK-LHR will go soon. Will they ever return after years when they have more aircraft?
 
roseflyer
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:51 pm

I doubt it. QF has a big disadvantage to Europe. Having a hub in the middle of Europe - Australia is ideal. The Middle East and Asian airlines have the advantage and don't have to depend on connections. QF in my opinion will never be able to gain back market share to Europe. It's the same geographic problems that hurt US carriers to India and Indian carriers to the US. On the long haul markets, an airline based in the middle wins.
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deltamartin
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:01 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
On the long haul markets, an airline based in the middle wins.

And that is especially true on a market like Europe - Australia, since nonstop is impossible to do profitable in with the available technology and rising fuel price.
Which means that the traveler, regardless of choice of airline, will have to land somewhere on it's way to the destination.
 
qf002
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:23 pm

Very doubtful. If there are additional flights into LHR (or Europe as a whole) in the future with QF then they will be from their new Asian base (which all depends on where they decide to set up their new airline -- my bet is SIN but KUL is also on the cards).
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:42 am

Qantas international flights are unprofitable more than other QF businesses such as domestic, cargo and frequent flyer. So QF CEO has decided to change the business in order to bring the profit back to normal. Too many competitors take over Qantas business.
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United Airline
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:50 am

When QF takes more A380s will they bring back HKG-LHR and put them on this route? They can be the first to put the A380 on the route.

Thought BKK-LHR was QF's first ever route to LHR. Why didn't it perform well?
 
Sydscott
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:59 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Will they ever return after years when they have more aircraft?

The next LHR fligth for QF will be PVG-LHR once the bilateral with the EU is sorted out. I doubt HKG-LHR or BKK-LHR will return with QF concentrated on routing all of it's Europe bound traffic, on its own metal, through SIN.

The next QF Group Airline to add Europe service will be Jetstar using 787's.
 
thegeek
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:05 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 5):
When QF takes more A380s will they bring back HKG-LHR and put them on this route? They can be the first to put the A380 on the route.

Well they have deferred the A380s which would operate such a route, which should answer your question. It is possible that QF decides to accept delivery ultimately rather than forfeit the deposit, although I doubt that consideration would rate much.

I think the only way these flights will be back is a change in the CEO and therefore a possible change in strategy.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 5):
Thought BKK-LHR was QF's first ever route to LHR. Why didn't it perform well?

Probably a lack of feed. While there was a JQ MEL-BKK flight, I doubt this fed into the QF BKK-LHR one much. I don't think there was even a code share. Basically BKK-LHR would go out minus people who are heading to BKK from SYD, only adding code share BA LHR-BKK pax, which impedes loads and profit. Similar problem with HKG-LHR, but less severe.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:08 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 5):
Thought BKK-LHR was QF's first ever route to LHR.

Your are kidding, right????

BKK-LHR (NS) didn't come along until the B744s arrived, the main Australia-UK route with the B742s was SYD-SIN-BAH-LHR, I can't remember if B742s served BKK, the B707s certainly did. QF have served BKK en-route to Europe and the UK since the late 1940s when up to 12 stops were the norm.

SIN has always been a more important port for QF than BKK. Partly because QF was on the route very early, in conjunction with IA (Imperial Airways) since the mid 1930s, SIN was the change over point between QF & IA for the route from Australia to the UK. QF have flown the whole way to the UK, in their own right since the late 1940s. As well as this there is an enormous amount of trade in goods & services between Australia & SIN, which encourages traffic. So when it was decided to cut LHR services it wasn't a strange call to decide to continue SIN and cut BKK & HKG.

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United Airline
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:33 am

Oh I see. Sorry I forgot.

But why did they use QF1/2 as flight numbers?
 
shnoob940
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:04 am

Man that sucks, I was going to fly SYD-HKG-LHR sometime soon.. What flights will get QF1 and 2 now?
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thegeek
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:13 am

SYD-SIN-LHR. Current QF31/32.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:43 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 7):
I don't think there was even a code share. Basically BKK-LHR would go out minus people who are heading to BKK from SYD, only adding code share BA LHR-BKK pax, which impedes loads and profit. Similar problem with HKG-LHR, but less severe.

The BKK flight was part of the JSA with BA throughout the journey, it was the HKG flight that was excluded.

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Very sad to learn that HKG-LHR, BKK-LHR will go soon. Will they ever return after years when they have more aircraft?

Lots of reasons for these flights going, and many threads discuss what people believe QF could have done differently over the years. Part of the issue was that QF was trying to serve markets through different stopover points. It has tried to use SIN as a hub for many years, and possibly the most successful incarnation of this was when under the JSA BA operated LHR-SIN-BNE and LHR-SIN-PER, whilst QF operated MEL-SIN-LHR and SYD-SIN-FRA. Part of the problem though was how many flights were routing to LHR. Only FRA had daily service in Europe. When QF wanted to operate daily SYD-SIN-CDG, the bilateral with France prevented it. When it served FCO, the routing was MEL-BKK-FCO, so the only connections came via SYD flights.

The new full-service Asian subsiduary will allow QF Group to offer onward connections from a mid-point hub (I'd favour SIN given the presence of not only QF but BA and AY). Perhaps service to European and Indian destinations will come from there, with connections to the main Australian ports that way.
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thegeek
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:13 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 12):
The BKK flight was part of the JSA with BA throughout the journey, it was the HKG flight that was excluded.

That only affects who collects the profit/loss on the flight, not the actual profitability of the flight.
 
trb10
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:08 am

When are the LHR-BKK and LHR-HKG routes ending?
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:29 am

I dont think you will see Qantas come back to those routes they have dropped, the compitition to Australia is huge, if some sort of service does return and with Australian metal on it, it will be with JQ. Qantas has become a small mino now and cant compete with the ME carriers and the South East Asian carriers flying to Australia.
 
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:39 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 7):
I think the only way these flights will be back is a change in the CEO and therefore a possible change in strategy.

I know many like to place the woes of QF at the feet of Allan Joyce, but the simple reality is the QF strategy is a response to market forces at play.

I think it is fair to say one of the reasons QF International is not profitable is because of the capacity being placed into the market place by QF's main competitors.

If we look at EK alone their growth is just phenomenal. The investment in product (aircraft) is just something the likes of the QF's in this world can't keep up with.

I think part of the QF strategy is a recognition of this fact and until such time the market place stabilises or QF can successfully re-position itself with their Asian base the strategy will remain intact.

On this point there is still a lot of unknowns with the strategy and from I can work out QF international is going to need investment in aircraft around the 2015 mark.

[Edited 2011-10-09 04:44:54]
 
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:48 am

Quoting travelhound (Reply 16):
I know many like to place the woes of QF at the feet of Allan Joyce, but the simple reality is the QF strategy is a response to market forces at play.

It's often not acknowledge enough on here that both SQ and EK pax numbers Aus-UK are GOING DOWN as well. This is a market wide phenomenon.

Unfortunately I havn't the time to find the sources for that right now, but I think that SQ are yoy -1%. For EK I can't think of such concrete percentages, but in the article in the Manchester Evening News about EK's growth at MAN their UK General Manager (or whatever the official title of the position) said that EK's passenger numbers had dropped yoy from the UK to Australia, even though passengers numbers at MAN were up 50% overall.
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qf002
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:31 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 5):
When QF takes more A380s will they bring back HKG-LHR and put them on this route? They can be the first to put the A380 on the route.

The final 6 A380s will be taking over the final few B744 routes, so there will be no room for any VLA expansion unless QF were to ever decide to order some more (and if they did they'd be A389's -- OT but anybody else think that their final 6 could be A389's assuming it happens?)

Quoting thegeek (Reply 7):
Quoting United Airline (Reply 5):
Thought BKK-LHR was QF's first ever route to LHR. Why didn't it perform well?

Probably a lack of feed

Hmm, I don't think that was the case. The BA/QF combo that operated within half an hour of each flying around 700 seats SYD-BKK-LHR each night was always pretty busy. I think it's more to do with a desire to consolidate operations at a hub that is going to bring more reliable business feed -- this flight was probably doing perfectly well, but QF/BA found a way to make more money consolidating at their SIN hub (which they really should have done years ago anyway IMHO).

Quoting thegeek (Reply 7):
Similar problem with HKG-LHR, but less severe.

See HKG-LHR probably was performing badly. QF had little chance of picking up local traffic in the face of fierce competition from their partner airlines on the route, so had to rely heavily on through pax from MEL with some very limited connecting traffic from BNE etc (which was hampered for a long time by terribly timed flights). The flight was also the primary MEL-HKG service, so (going by their new schedules) QF have 250 people each day just flying between MEL and HKG (you refer to this issue) which puts a drain on LHR seats and loads beyond HK

Quoting trb10 (Reply 14):
When are the LHR-BKK and LHR-HKG routes ending?

Final flights leave Australia on March 23rd 2012, leave LHR on the 25th... QF31 becomes QF1 on the 25th as well...

Quoting travelhound (Reply 16):
The investment in product (aircraft) is just something the likes of the QF's in this world can't keep up with.

Not entirely true IMO. QF has invested heavily in their A380s, are working on refitting the 744s at the moment and have 50 787s come over the next 9-10 years... Sure QF doesn't have a 10 year aircraft cycle, but taking into account the scale and needs of each carrier's international operations I'd say they're on par.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 17):
It's often not acknowledge enough on here that both SQ and EK pax numbers Aus-UK are GOING DOWN as well. This is a market wide phenomenon.

The issue being that it affects QF much harder than SQ and EK. They still have their feed from the rest of the world to minimise the impact while QF gets hit with the entire reduction...
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:39 pm

It's a shame that the Aussie government does not stand up for airlines inside it's own country. They should limit EK to a daily flight from SYD and maybe MEL. The fact of the matter is hardly anyone going on EK is O&D to Dubai they all carry on. Besides airport workers, the only Aussies that EK employ are all expats that don't do much for Australia. Regular airlines can't compete with airlines that are dependent on the low tax/oil subsidized airlines in the middle east. It's time countries start following both Germany and Canada and stand up for their own tax payers.
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:58 pm

Quoting thegeek (Reply 13):
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 12):
The BKK flight was part of the JSA with BA throughout the journey, it was the HKG flight that was excluded.

That only affects who collects the profit/loss on the flight, not the actual profitability of the flight.

I'm not getting your point. Your original post that I replied to implied that BA and QF did not codeshare on the LHR-BKK-SYD route. Now you are talking about profitability or not of individual flights

Under the JSA at present the following routes are pooled for costs/profits, whether it is BA or QF that operates the flight: -

FRA-SIN-SYD (QF)
LHR-SIN-SYD (QF)
LHR-SIN-MEL (QF)
LHR-SIN-SYD (BA)
LHR-BKK-SYD (BA)

Someone with more knowledge could tell us if BA's LHR-SIN terminator and some of QF's terminators into SIN are also covered by the JSA, but I know that routings via HKG were excluded.

From the Summer 2012 (Northern Hemisphere) timetable the QF SYD-BKK and BA LHR-BKK terminators stop being part of the JSA and neither carrier will codeshare on the flights to/from BKK. The JSA becomes restricted to the flights operating to/from/through SIN, which is why I think that QF's full service Asian carrier will be at SIN, because that is where it could add most value to the remaining flights.
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:01 pm

But they have A380 options. I suppose they will order more or exercise them right?
 
Gemuser
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:18 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 21):
But they have A380 options. I suppose they will order more or exercise them right?

QFs original order was for 12 aircraft with 12 options. 8 of those options have been exercised and the first two are due in 13/14, the other 6 have been deferred for 5 years. So I wouldn't expect the last 4 options to be exercised much before the deferred aircraft are due, unless those aircraft are brought forward again.

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travelhound
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:40 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 18):
QF has invested heavily in their A380s, are working on refitting the 744s at the moment and have 50 787s come over the next 9-10 years

QF currently have 21 operational 744's and 10 A380"S. That's a total of 31 VLA's.

They also have 26 767's

Now with 12 of the 744's being retired in the 2012-2015 and four additional A380's being added to the fleet, this represents a decrease in the VLA fleet by 8 aircraft.

From what I can remember the entire 767 fleet will be retired by 2015. The new 787's coming into the fleet will be juggled with the capacity needs of JQ. Now with 15 788's coming before 2015 and the 789's starting deliveries in 2014, I just can't see QF having enough 787's to replace the entire 767 fleet, add new capacity to JQ and supplement long haul flights traditionally flown by VLA's.

Either we are going to see a major reduction in the QF international operations or there is more to this equation. My guess is "more to this equation"
 
thegeek
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:32 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 18):
Hmm, I don't think that was the case. The BA/QF combo that operated within half an hour of each flying around 700 seats SYD-BKK-LHR each night was always pretty busy. I think it's more to do with a desire to consolidate operations at a hub that is going to bring more reliable business feed -- this flight was probably doing perfectly well, but QF/BA found a way to make more money consolidating at their SIN hub (which they really should have done years ago anyway IMHO).

Are you saying the flight was doing well and they canned it anyway?

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 20):
I'm not getting your point. Your original post that I replied to implied that BA and QF did not codeshare on the LHR-BKK-SYD route. Now you are talking about profitability or not of individual flights

The flights that IIRC aren't code share are the JQ MEL-BKK and QF BKK-LHR. So if you want to fly MEL-BKK-LHR on QF group airlines you need to take your chances.

BA and QF have code shared on via SYD-BKK-LHR for as long as I can remember. Both flights rely on getting a few code share pax for BKK bound so that each airline's tag flight doesn't have empty seats. Not sure how this worked out, but I imagine not well given that the flights are going.
 
LV
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:45 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 18):
50 787s come over the next 9-10 years

I'm hoping some of those will be used to open up SYD-LAS.   The Aussies seem to love Vegas.
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:02 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 24):
Quoting qf002 (Reply 18):
Hmm, I don't think that was the case. The BA/QF combo that operated within half an hour of each flying around 700 seats SYD-BKK-LHR each night was always pretty busy. I think it's more to do with a desire to consolidate operations at a hub that is going to bring more reliable business feed -- this flight was probably doing perfectly well, but QF/BA found a way to make more money consolidating at their SIN hub (which they really should have done years ago anyway IMHO).

Are you saying the flight was doing well and they canned it anyway?

load factor and yield are two very different things...

Quoting travelhound (Reply 23):

The 767s will be here until 2019, but given that SYD-HNL is the only long haul 767 flight left they aren't too relevant to international flying.

From my present understanding QF are going to move the A330s (both QF and JQ) onto domestic as the 787s arrive and phase out the 767 as the come into the domestic fleet.
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tullamarine
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:09 am

Quoting LV (Reply 25):
I'm hoping some of those will be used to open up SYD-LAS. The Aussies seem to love Vegas.

Were Vegas to ever happen, it would be JQ only. Not enough business traffic and limited connections means it is tourist route only so JQ would be the vehicle of choice.

Quoting zbbylw (Reply 19):
It's a shame that the Aussie government does not stand up for airlines inside it's own country. They should limit EK to a daily flight from SYD and maybe MEL.

Australians, particularly those outside SYD, love SQ, EK etc because they offer services QF never did. QF have, for years, had the opportunity to provide services to cities such as ADL, PER etc on planes such as 763s hubbing in SIN with European bound heavies out of MEL and SYD but chose not to. In fact, ADL is barely serviced internationally by QF at all. People hate transitting in SYD but that is what QF made its pax do. SQ, EK etc realised the hole in QF's strategy and have exploited it. QF do not deserve protection from their own management mistakes.
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:15 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 21):
But they have A380 options. I suppose they will order more or exercise them right?

I'm expecting the final 6 388 deferrals to be eventually cancelled and the QF 380 fleet will not increase from 14. Maybe they will see the light 1 day and order the 350-1000/777X but I don't think that will happen anytime soon either. Most group international expansion will be via JQ.
 
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:35 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 20):
From the Summer 2012 (Northern Hemisphere) timetable the QF SYD-BKK and BA LHR-BKK terminators stop being part of the JSA and neither carrier will codeshare on the flights to/from BKK. The JSA becomes restricted to the flights operating to/from/through SIN

BA and QF are both codesharing on each others BKK flights from next March when the change occurs (eg the new QF3501/2). I'm not 100% sure, but I think that pax travelling all the way through might still be covered in the JSA.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 21):
But they have A380 options. I suppose they will order more or exercise them right?

If they do then it's not for another 10 years. And even then IMO they'd be better of with a pile of higher density 787-10X sort of planes than any extra A380s.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 24):
Are you saying the flight was doing well and they canned it anyway?

Potentially. Fares were high and the flights were very full.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 24):
BA and QF have code shared on via SYD-BKK-LHR for as long as I can remember. Both flights rely on getting a few code share pax for BKK bound so that each airline's tag flight doesn't have empty seats. Not sure how this worked out, but I imagine not well given that the flights are going.

Both flights also picked up local traffic on their respective tag legs -- BA has long advertised SYD-BKK fares... In any case, the local market is nowhere near the size of the SIN one so my bet is that a much higher percentage of pax were through pax compared with both the SIN and HKG flights.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 26):
load factor and yield are two very different things...

Yes -- but with fares on par with SIN and similar loads you can't say that the SIN is blankly out performing the BKK flight. Sure, the SIN flight now has more seats, and the economic advantage (A380 vs 744 CASM) but both these factors could easily be brought to the BKK flights. I just think it's a sensible hubbing decision, and a desire to direct investment at other parts of the group (rather than taking the last 6 A380s) that has driven this change rather than a poorly performing BKK operation.
 
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:45 am

Quoting qfa787380 (Reply 28):

I'm expecting the final 6 388 deferrals to be eventually cancelled and the QF 380 fleet will not increase from 14.

That's your opinion. I disagree.
I'm expecting the A380s to be brought forward again when the financial markets improve sufficiently that QF can raise the necessary capital, within the constraints of the Sale of Qantas Act, to support the capital expenditure they need. I'm guessing they'll be delayed 2 to 3 years, not the full 5 years currently announced and I expect the 4 option to be exercised at about that time AND some of the B787 options to be exercised around the same time.

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thegeek
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:06 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 30):
I'm expecting the A380s to be brought forward again when the financial markets improve sufficiently that QF can raise the necessary capital, within the constraints of the Sale of Qantas Act, to support the capital expenditure they need. I'm guessing they'll be delayed 2 to 3 years, not the full 5 years currently announced and I expect the 4 option to be exercised at about that time AND some of the B787 options to be exercised around the same time.

I agree that at least some of them will be eventually delivered. In addition to SYD-DFW, by the end of this decade even the 744ERs will be starting to get long in the tooth, and then what will operate SYD-JNB, 2nd SYD-LAX, SYD-HKG, SYD-SCL, SYD-SIN-FRA. Even BNE-LAX could go A380 eventually.
 
qfa787380
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:09 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 30):
That's your opinion. I disagree.
I'm expecting the A380s to be brought forward again when the financial markets improve sufficiently that QF can raise the necessary capital, within the constraints of the Sale of Qantas Act, to support the capital expenditure they need. I'm guessing they'll be delayed 2 to 3 years, not the full 5 years currently announced and I expect the 4 option to be exercised at about that time AND some of the B787 options to be exercised around the same time.

Gemuser

I hope you are right but as that would mean some expansion of QF. I'm just a bit negative these days about all things QF I'm afraid.
 
n729pa
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:16 pm

RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:35 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 18):
Quoting trb10 (Reply 14):
When are the LHR-BKK and LHR-HKG routes ending?

Final flights leave Australia on March 23rd 2012, leave LHR on the 25th... QF31 becomes QF1 on the 25th as well...

And with the passing of these flights, the Qantas 747 operations at LHR will end after 41 years. I think SYD-SIN-LHR (via umpteen stops along the way) was one of the first routes for the QF 747 in September 1971
 
jfk777
Posts: 5861
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:53 pm

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 27):
Australians, particularly those outside SYD, love SQ, EK etc because they offer services QF never did. QF have, for years, had the opportunity to provide services to cities such as ADL, PER etc on planes such as 763s hubbing in SIN with European bound heavies out of MEL and SYD but chose not to. In fact, ADL is barely serviced internationally by QF at all. People hate transitting in SYD but that is what QF made its pax do. SQ, EK etc realised the hole in QF's strategy and have exploited it. QF do not deserve protection from their own management mistakes.

There is truth to this but this has been done by Singapore, Thai, Cathay and Malaysia Air for years. Emirates and Qatar have just taken it to another level really causing Qantas heartburn. QF didn't seem to mind too much as long as it was just their Asian competitors but Petro powered airlines are causing everyone heartburn. QF didn't take a page from their Canadians cousins handling of Emirates. What really kills QF is the ability for EK and QR to offer nonstops with A330 & 777's to not only LHR but to all the major regional cities in the UK, a huge market from Australia. Too bad 767 or A330 can't fly nonstop from Singapore to Glasgow, Manchester and Edinburgh.
 
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6554
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:15 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 34):
Qatar

... only fly to MEL, so not to much of an issue. EY are #2 MidEast here.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 34):
Singapore, Thai, Cathay and Malaysia Air for years. Emirates and Qatar have just taken it to another level really causing Qantas heartburn. QF didn't seem to mind too much as long as it was just their Asian competitors but Petro powered airlines are causing everyone heartburn

Go back to the early 90s and the rhetoric was the same about state-owned, low labour cost SQ as it is about EK now. Nothing has changed, just the target.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
tullamarine
Posts: 1614
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:10 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 34):
What really kills QF is the ability for EK and QR to offer nonstops with A330 & 777's to not only LHR but to all the major regional cities in the UK

Partly true but these routes are fairly low yielding VFR routes.

What has killed QF has been its inability to defend European services and the delusion that having a partnership with BA was some sort of substitute even though it meant paying a higher fare, overflying the pax ultimate destination and having to fight the chaos that is LHR.

QF could have maintained a greater European presence had it made itself attractive to those outside of SYD and MEL. Why would anyone from ADL or BNE travel with QF when it often meant backtracking to SYD or MEL to meet the int'l service or a long stopover in SIN waiting for a connecting service. In comparison SQ, MH offered direct services with great connections. QF saw its share of services to Rome etc diminish and rather than attempt a defence simply abandoned the routes.

Even now they dither in reintroducing JQ onto these routes claiming the 787 delay is at fault. Realistically, if they were serious, they could have used older 744s in JQ colors a couple of times a week to FCO and ATH but that was all too hard.
717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772/E/W,300,310,319,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,ATR
 
weebie
Posts: 158
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:01 pm

Quoting zbbylw (Reply 19):

Because that policy would hurt our tourism industry which employs 1 million people and generates billions of dollars of revenue.
 
weebie
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RE: Will QF's Soon-to-go Routes Be Back Again One Day?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:04 pm

Qantas is a good product.

There is nothing wrong with the airline the problems they are facing are more related to Australia itself rather than the Airline or Government. Simply Australia is one of the most expensive countries in the world and for the majority of the world population it simply is unaffordable. Qantas is simply losing money because demand for Australia in the tourism market has decreased heavilly over the past 10-20 years.

Another issue is that they incur Higher costs but running Singapore, Cathay and Emirates isn't cheap as well.

It's simply more codesharing. There is so much codesharing these days I don't see the problem.

Singapore is the choice stopover when travelling to Europe. Qantas will continue to fly to HK and BKK it's just that you will now get a BA flight to Heathrow.

[Edited 2011-10-11 08:08:03]