BW424
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The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:19 am

Greetings once again to one and all!

Welcome to the 91st instalment of the marathon Caribbean Aviation Thread. This instalment is dedicated to an island the majority of us know of, but not extensively. It's an island that is commonly misidentified or mis-associated with it's Latin Caribbean neighbours (Dominican Republic) by persons unfamiliar with the region. It's an island with rich culture and nature that has been literally untouched for centuries. This island is none other than DOMINICA.





Dominica, officially the Commonwealth of Dominica and influenced by the French and British respectively, is an island nation in the Lesser Antilles region of the Caribbean Sea, south-southeast of Guadeloupe and northwest of Martinique. The Commonwealth of Dominica has an estimated population of 72,500. The capital is Roseau.



The Capital Roseau

Dominica has been nicknamed the "Nature Isle of the Caribbean" for its unspoiled natural beauty. It is the youngest island in the Lesser Antilles, still being formed by geothermal-volcanic activity, as evidenced by the world's second-largest boiling lake. The island features lush mountainous rainforests, home of many rare plant, animal, and bird species. Dominica's economy is heavily dependent on both tourism and agriculture.


Trafalgar Falls


Boiling Lake

There are two small airports on the island. The primary airport, Melville Hall Airport (DOM), is on the northeast coast. The second is Canefield Airport (DCF), about 15 minutes from Roseau on the southwest coast. Melville Hall Airport is suitable for limited use of commercial jets because of runway length. Melville Hall currently has regular service by American Eagle,Winair, BVI Airways, Conviasa and LIAT using twin turboprop aircraft as well as Amerijet, which, using Boeing 727 Freighters, is the only airline with jet service to the republic. A runway extension and service upgrade project began at Melville Hall around 2006 and was finished in 2010.


MQ ATR-72-212A @ DOM.

Dominican cuisine is similar to that of other Caribbean countries. Common main courses comprise meat (usually chicken, but can be goat, lamb, or beef) covered in sauce. The sauces are either spicy pepper sauces, or concoctions made from local fruit. A huge variety of local fruit, from tamarind to passion fruit, is served on the island, usually in juice or sauce form.

******NEWS FEED******
BW has secured two LAN 767-300ERs for trunk routes and new longhaul (tentative)
DL 752 operating JFK-GEO makes emergency landing in SJU after unexpected depressurization. (Aug.)
LI comtemplating on whether to drop unprofitable routes or not.
Pax travelling to Guyana via CAL now connect from arrival gate to departure gate on same level of POS airport.
CM to MBJ with E190 starting Dec. 11
BW to get two ex Air Europa 738s (tentative)
RD to welcome third MD-82 soon.
AA downgrades DFW-BGI from B752 to B738. (Aug.22)
BW starts weekly MIA-POS-GEO cargo service
Hurricane Irene reeks havoc on BW's schedule
BW 2x weekly POS-KIN-MCO seeing high loads
BW drops JFK-ANU service. (Sept.)
RD experiences mechanical problems with MD-80s causing considerable delays (Sept.)
Winair sees improvement in ops after cutting routes and streamling ops
UP sees high US summer loads of 90% on average.
MHH in Bahamas to have brand new 51,000 sq ft terminal constructed and completed by 2012.
BW's VP of Corporate Communications, Laura Asbjornsen dismissed.
RD plans on launching separate Jamaican airline.


Fishing village in Dominica

It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
 
BW424
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:27 am

Here is a pic of 9Y-GEO with new titles...."Spirit Of Guyana". We can recall that Nicholas did go to GEO and "designated" an aircraft to be called this.

It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
 
beeweel15
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:08 am

Of the following Caribbean airports which two are best to set up a hub and why and can compliment each other the best in all aspects of passenger and cargo.

POS, TAB, BGI, ANU, KIN, MBJ, SJU, AUA, CUR, PAP, SDQ, POP, PUJ
 
GUYAIR707
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:57 pm

Quoting BW424 (Reply 1):

Makes sense for them to just rename 9Y-GEO rather than have 2 a/c with a Guyana slogan. Seems like they are readying themselves for marketing JFK-GEO nonstop service.

I think the BW cargo MIA-GEO is represented by Piarco Air Services (PAS) here in Guyana.

GUYAIR707
 
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turk223
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:49 pm

Quoting BW424 (Reply 1):
Here is a pic of 9Y-GEO with new titles...."Spirit Of Guyana". We can recall that Nicholas did go to GEO and "designated" an aircraft to be called this.

I'm hoping this means we'll see "Spirit of Barbados" on 9Y-BGI, "Spirit of St. Lucia" on 9Y-SLU...
 
BW424
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:05 pm

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 3):
Makes sense for them to just rename 9Y-GEO rather than have 2 a/c with a Guyana slogan. Seems like they are readying themselves for marketing JFK-GEO nonstop service.

9Y-GEO is the only aircraft and has been the only aircraft with a Guyana slogan. Before having the small "Trinidad & Tobago Land of the Hummingbird" decal under the windows, 9Y-GEO had the official slogan "Guyana Land of Many Waters". That was from 2007- early 2010.
It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
 
2travel2know2
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:41 pm

From the previous thread:

Quote:
Reason for failure: every single one of them needed (and as of right now still do) a very very complicated (to get) visa which was a hold over from colonial days. Often times it necessitated a trip to the British High Commission.

It was easier to go to somewhere like Aruba....and yes....as we see S. American carriers have had success there.

I think this visa thing (which the GoJ seems to be working on) is probably part of the reason why CM has not increased KIN....connecting traffic to KIN at PTY is probably very limited....mostly o&d.

As far as I know neither Brazilians nor Argentinians need visas to visit Jamaica. Those are the 2 Latinamerican largest markets for potential new visitors to Jamaica.
IMHO, the Jamaica visa issue, even if Panamanians need visas to fly to Jamaica, it not the major reason why CM hasn't increased frequencies to KIN in the last few years. Most likely one of the reasons is that to operate KIN, no matter the frequency, CM needs B737 because of baggage/cargo and CM is a bit reluctant to use those to Jamaica when they're needed the most for their long-haul flights to EZE or GRU.
I think if CM knew a bit more about the Higglers travelling habits, CM may be able to change the aircraft type for the KIN route accordingly.
Other reason may be the Jamaican passengers lack of interest in flying via CM PTY hub because the few frequencies between PTY and the island.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
guyanam
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:12 pm

Quoting turk223 (Reply 4):

They would have to strat flying to ST L first before the name a plane after that island.
 
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turk223
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:14 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 7):
They would have to strat flying to ST L first before the name a plane after that island.

true... just based on the registration-theory
 
LimaFoxTango
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:16 pm

Just to bring this thead to the main page again...

Flight of fancy

REDjet was not originally intended to be a carrier into the smaller islands of the Caribbean, says Minister of International Transport George Hutson.

“When we licensed REDjet and certainly when REDjet came in there was no talk about going into the islands.

http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/flight-of-fancy/

Seems like a very interesting article, pity the whole of it is not online. What are the "islands" being referred to here? RD currently has plans for (or so they say) SXM, SKB, UVF and GND.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:08 pm

I see press releases flying around about Jamaican Queen Airlines.

I wish them luck. Tough market.......being involved the airline business myself ... it is not easy and requires very very deep pockets.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
caribbean484
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:21 pm

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 9):



No surprise there as the Government of Barbados has a shareholding in LI also, so this will not go down well. Anyone who has a sight of history and realistic view will see that RD will be blocked or at least see significant obstacles serving routes in the Caribbean.
As someone mentioned in another forum we will have to see RD financial records to know how well they are doing as talk going around is that flights are leaving well below 50%, we all know its the slow season also.
From what is being said, RD is being denied a license to operate to SLU, ANU, SKB, SXM not sure about GND but I would not be surprised if it is also included.

The interesting take on RD is that they intend to have 4 MD82s by early next year, lets not forget that they cannot fly into the US since BGI is at CAT2, and they want to have a Jamaica base(yeah right).
One has to wonder what will their campaign be to get those routes.
All ah we is one family
 
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yellowtail
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:59 pm

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 11):
The interesting take on RD is that they intend to have 4 MD82s by early next year, lets not forget that they cannot fly into the US since BGI is at CAT2, and they want to have a Jamaica base(yeah right).

Redjet oughta go for broke and be the pioneer into S. America.

POS/KIN - LIM, BOG etc
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
LimaFoxTango
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:34 pm

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 11):
The interesting take on RD is that they intend to have 4 MD82s by early next year, lets not forget that they cannot fly into the US since BGI is at CAT2, and they want to have a Jamaica base(yeah right).
One has to wonder what will their campaign be to get those routes.

I think opening a base in Jamaica, or totally moving the outfit to Jamaica is more likely than not. Barbados simply cannot offer what RD wants. The Barbados CAA is in shambles and not likely of getting CAT2 anytime soon.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 11):
No surprise there as the Government of Barbados has a shareholding in LI also, so this will not go down well. Anyone who has a sight of history and realistic view will see that RD will be blocked or at least see significant obstacles serving routes in the Caribbean.

Plan B. Move (back) to Jamaica.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 11):
From what is being said, RD is being denied a license to operate to SLU, ANU, SKB, SXM not sure about GND but I would not be surprised if it is also included.

ANU has given RD approval to fly between ANU and GEO. It's the flights to/from BGI the issue.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:53 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 12):
Redjet oughta go for broke and be the pioneer into S. America.

POS/KIN - LIM, BO

Those routes can't survive on O/D traffic only, and RedJet model seems to be P2P routes, no one-stop flights or connecting flights. However, RedJet partner Digicel is big in Panama and CM kind of neglects Jamaica and offers no flights to BGI yet.

On the other side, If BW wants to make a better use of its B737, instead of keeping them R.O.N. on Jamaica or Trinidad, BW could start studying flying next year KIN or POS - LIM and POS - GIG maybe FOR too. Major issue there is offering possible LIM and GIG flights North American and Caribbean/CCS comfortable connections.
An evening POS - KIN - PTY with early morning PTY - KIN - POS could come handy too.   
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
guyanam
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:31 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 14):
BW isnt likely to do routes to Latin Am other than to CCS. Travel too thin and too risky. Better to let the latin carriers come in if they wish. They have the brand support to build leisure travel from their homelands to the Caribbean.

I dont think BW has a problem with aircarft utilization now.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 13):


There is definitely not room for three Jamaica based carriers. It will either be Jamaica Queen or Redjet. If Jamaica Queen succeeds CAL will be out of Jamaica....a blessing for them as Jamaicans dont want them so why force it.

My question will be whether Jamaica Queen has the cash to do all the things their temporary website claims that they can do.

[Edited 2011-10-12 14:35:00]
 
LimaFoxTango
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:01 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 15):
My question will be whether Jamaica Queen has the cash to do all the things their temporary website claims that they can do.

If you're referring to http://www.jamaicaqueenairlines.yolasite.com/ clearly, this is an ex Air Jamaica pilot who certainly has a chip on his shoulder (perhaps for not being hired by the new BW/JM). This outfit surely have an uphill battle to fight if they want to enter the market. I don't know how deep his pockets are, but brand new A320's and A321's? Also, listing every B737 incident/accident on this site is certainly a cheap shot and not a way to start off.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
caribbean484
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:13 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 15):
Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 16):



Just got a glimpse of the site, IMO its of very poor taste as he mentioned NK, AA, B6 all had accidents/crashes. Flying all new A320 and A321 are a huge capital expenditure as leases for brand new are like new are what US$300,000 plus he needs the cash backing for the weak periods.
This person to me sounds as if he has a grudge and really not competent to even run a parlour. Airlines are not run on emotion but on sound principle.
All ah we is one family
 
jmbweeboy
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:18 pm

This Jamaican Queen thing sounds like somebodies "pipe dream" to me. Or should I say another phanton Caribbean airline like the re-incarnated Trans Caribbean Airways thats had a website for more years than I can remember but goes nowhere.

http://www.flytca.com/

JMBWEEBOY
 
trintocan
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:11 pm

Quoting jmbweeboy (Reply 18):
This Jamaican Queen thing sounds like somebodies "pipe dream" to me.

Very true indeed. Let's get a dose of reality now, at this time of sky-high fuel charges and global economic meltdown, anyone trying to start a major new airline - well I can see some losses.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 17):
Just got a glimpse of the site, IMO its of very poor taste as he mentioned NK, AA, B6 all had accidents/crashes.

I did not see that on the website but, if it were there before and then removed, it is still in very poor taste. We have been through this sort of thing about knocking on rivals' safety before, how can a non-entity airline really be taken seriously after saying stuff like that?

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 13):

ANU has given RD approval to fly between ANU and GEO. It's the flights to/from BGI the issue.

That's the point right there. ANU - GEO - I have never heard of any airline flying that route nonstop ever. Old BW did fly KIN - ANU - BGI - POS - GEO in the past under the same flight number (BW 415 Southbound / 414 Northbound) but of course the intermedicate stops helped maintain traffic flow throughout the journey. One wonders how much of a market is there for this route, especially as GEO's biggest regional markets are POS and BGI. If RD think they can make it work, then let them try.

ANU - BGI is a very different matter as that is one of LI's core routes and pivotal for its revenue, especially now that BW stopped serving the sector. With LI based in ANU and their fortunes tied very closely with those of the twin-island Nation, I can see why ANU is reluctant.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
guyanam
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:12 am

Quoting trintocan (Reply 19):

BWIA used to do a JFK ANU GEO route 5X during the late 1990s. I used it once and maybe 25 pax boarded at ANU for GEO. The Guyanese population in ANU is maybe 8,000. I dont see this supporting 300 seats/week on a year round basis.

RD cannot get ANU BGI as the Bdos govt wants to protect LIAT. We will soon find out that RD displays the usual arrogance that non caribbean people have had when it comes to Caribbean aviation. They have the wrong aircraft for intra E/Carib routes and now are running into a restriction on the number of routes which can support MD83 a/c. How will they utilize 5 planes?
 
caribbean484
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:33 am

Quoting trintocan (Reply 19):
That's the point right there. ANU - GEO - I have never heard of any airline flying that route nonstop ever. Old BW did fly KIN - ANU - BGI - POS - GEO
Quoting guyanam (Reply 20):
BWIA used to do a JFK ANU GEO route 5X during the late 1990s. I used it once and maybe 25 pax boarded at ANU for GEO. The Guyanese population in ANU is maybe 8,000. I dont see this supporting 300 seats/week on a year round basis.



Yes BWIA used to do JFK-ANU-GEO in the past with the MD80 but the flight was cut in favour of GEO-BGI-JFK, then POS-GEO-JFK with the L1011 and JFK-BGI-GEO with the MD80. There is little demand for this route.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 20):
RD cannot get ANU BGI as the Bdos govt wants to protect LIAT. We will soon find out that RD displays the usual arrogance that non Caribbean people have had when it comes to Caribbean aviation. They have the wrong aircraft for intra E/Carib routes and now are running into a restriction on the number of routes which can support MD83 a/c. How will they utilize 5 planes?
Quoting trintocan (Reply 19):
ANU - BGI is a very different matter as that is one of LI's core routes and pivotal for its revenue, especially now that BW stopped serving the sector. With LI based in ANU and their fortunes tied very closely with those of the twin-island Nation, I can see why ANU is reluctant



Well this was eventually going to happen as was mentioned they have a large inefficient a/c running routes in the sub 300nm range. WIth 5 of them I am not sure how they can have a/c sitting all day round.
Lets be honest here, in the Caribbean unless there is a large increase in PPP amongs the regional countries, I am not sure how RD will get the critical mass needed to sustain their services in the long run. West Indians are not tourist in the true sense of the word and there is still too much arrogance and nostalgia amongs the islans for free travel, open skies and mass travel.
All ah we is one family
 
baje427
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:39 am

RD had the odds stacked against them MD83 are cheap to acquire but they are not suited for island hopping. LI protection can only last for so long given the current economic situation governments will be forced to reevaluate this stance. Anyone know why Gol has not attempted POS I would of thought this route would make more sense than BGI.
 
A388
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:45 am

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 16):
If you're referring to http://www.jamaicaqueenairlines.yolasite.com/ clearly, this is an ex Air Jamaica pilot who certainly has a chip on his shoulder (perhaps for not being hired by the new BW/JM). This outfit surely have an uphill battle to fight if they want to enter the market. I don't know how deep his pockets are, but brand new A320's and A321's? Also, listing every B737 incident/accident on this site is certainly a cheap shot and not a way to start off.
Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 17):
Just got a glimpse of the site, IMO its of very poor taste as he mentioned NK, AA, B6 all had accidents/crashes.
Quoting trintocan (Reply 19):
I did not see that on the website but, if it were there before and then removed, it is still in very poor taste.

I agree with all of you. We discussed this in the Jamaican thread as well and apparently because of our discussion there, that section has been removed.

A388
 
2travel2know2
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:43 pm

Quoting baje427 (Reply 22):
Anyone know why Gol has not attempted POS I would of thought this route would make more sense than BGI.

I can't only guess that G3 is looking for leisure destination and POS isn't.
However, since it looks like BW's South American expansion (except maybe PZO and MAR Venezuela) is sort of a dream of some - including myself - these days, best thing to do now for the Trini authorities (plus a couple of oil/gas/chemical companies) is to get together and try to woo G3 to fly GRU-GIG-POS someday soon.

BTW, I can't visualize tourists flocking to TAB on non-stop flights from Brazil like they do to CUR or SXM in the near future.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
A388
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:05 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 24):
I can't only guess that G3 is looking for leisure destination and POS isn't.

Yes, I also think this way. G3 looks at leisure destinations and Trinidad isn't known for tourism even though Trinidad does have a lot to offer in my opinion (except maybe for turquoise beaches maybe).

A388
 
guyanam
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:31 pm

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 21):

The JFK ANU GEO route ran in 1994. Was dropped when Acker took over and he made GEO bound passengers have to change planes in POS. When Guyanese fled the route was reinstated again in 1996. It ran daily ex th su with th su going to SLU and GND instead. JFK GEO generated enough traffic to offset poor JFK ANU loads. When Aleong took over, recognizing the potential of GEO, he put on L15 on a JFK POS GEO, first on a dly ex th su, and then on a daily route from 1999.

The MD83 ran "local" with a JFK ANU BGI POS, or a JFK UVF BGI POS, until the 738s were introduced, and then BGI went back to daily nonstop out of JFK. I remember the Bajans complained bittersly about the "disrespect" of having to stop off enroute to JFK, and many fled to Air Jam.

I dont recall them doing JFK BGI GEO. Remember that the BGI POS sector of the JFK BGI POS flight was well used by passengers flying between those islands as it was daily. They did have a MIA BGI GEO route, introduced around 1999 I think.
 
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turk223
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:51 pm

In my days with Bee Wee at BGI (1986-1993), we had no direct flight to GEO. All passengers connected through POS. LI and GY had non-stops BGI-GEO back then... Pretty sure after I left BW, the POS-GND-BGI-MIA was changed to GEO-BGI-MIA?
 
trintocan
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:59 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 26):
When Aleong took over, recognizing the potential of GEO, he put on L15 on a JFK POS GEO, first on a dly ex th su, and then on a daily route from 1999.

I remember that TriStar service on GEO - POS - JFK well, I flew on the GEO - POS sector once in 2000 on the mighty jet. Those were the days indeed...

Quoting guyanam (Reply 26):
The MD83 ran "local" with a JFK ANU BGI POS, or a JFK UVF BGI POS, until the 738s were introduced, and then BGI went back to daily nonstop out of JFK. I remember the Bajans complained bittersly about the "disrespect" of having to stop off enroute to JFK, and many fled to Air Jam.

I recall that too. Also, the Government of Barbados had granted JM national carrier status out of the USA which may have contributed to JM's growth there at BW's expense.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
andrefranca
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:54 pm

I tend to travel a lot to the Caribbean, I love this part of the planet.... but gotta say the airline industry in the Caribbean reflects the government of most of these islands, corruption, lobbying, dispute over interests etc... I felt so bad when JM was bought by BW... but it's business... now I can't see where RD wants to get... South America should not be ignored by them (check CM loads from brazil to caribbean and beyond)... I keep hearing 7I wants to fly CUR MAO, I'm sure this route would become popular as nothern brazilians don't like to go via BSB or PTY and the planes are often overbooked...

Rumors:

G3 to start SJU, HAV, SXM (once again) and MIA.

The thing is: They're turning their 767's back it means their 787's will need to stop somewhere....

any thoughts?

[Edited 2011-10-14 16:00:30]
 
caribbean484
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:34 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 26):

I dont recall them doing JFK BGI GEO. Remember that the BGI POS sector of the JFK BGI POS flight was well used by passengers flying between those islands as it was daily. They did have a MIA BGI GEO route, introduced around 1999 I think



I wish I had an old route map but I can vaguely remember that they ran JFK-BGI-GEO when Aleong came in on certain days, than the L1011 on others. I can be wrong though.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 26):
The MD83 ran "local" with a JFK ANU BGI POS, or a JFK UVF BGI POS, until the 738s were introduced, and then BGI went back to daily nonstop out of JFK. I remember the Bajans complained bittersly about the "disrespect" of having to stop off enroute to JFK, and many fled to Air Jam.
Quoting trintocan (Reply 28):
I recall that too. Also, the Government of Barbados had granted JM national carrier status out of the USA which may have contributed to JM's growth there at BW's expense.



I remembered that and Bajans are not to pleased when Aleong decided to focus on GEO. When he realised that they were losing market % in BGI, the first 738 9Y-GEO, ran POS-BGI-JFK daily again.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 29):



I keep saying that BW should start MAO and BSB because of the large local market to the US
All ah we is one family
 
2travel2know2
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RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:32 am

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 29):
South America should not be ignored by them (check CM loads from brazil to caribbean and beyond)... I keep hearing 7I wants to fly CUR MAO, I'm sure this route would become popular as nothern brazilians don't like to go via BSB or PTY and the planes are often overbooked...

As a Panamanian I'm defensibly bias towards CM, so BW/JM/7I handling all its non-Venezuela/Guyana/Suriname South American traffic to CM does make me happy, but seeing it from a Caribbean perspective, I just can't understand how stubborn BW is to refuse to thoroughly study flights viability/profitabilty from POS to FOR and GIG. FOR for example is in desperate need of easy connections to MIA/MCO/JFK + Caribbean (HAV) and it's by far a more important major Brazilian city than BEL (range-wise easier to get from POS).
I wish 7I luck for CUR-MAO, MAO local market might like the idea of a non-stop flight to CUR (connections to AUA) but IMHO, for Nothern Brazillians MAO is just too far and not that easy to get from SLZ, FOR, NAT, REC, SSA.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 29):
The thing is: They're turning their 767's back it means their 787's will need to stop somewhere....

You mean B738? From MAO, BEL and CGB: SJU, HAV, SXM and MIA (most likely weight restricted from CGB) are all within B738 non-stop range. G3 should also be looking on MCO/SFB and FLL as alternate to MIA.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 30):
I keep saying that BW should start MAO and BSB because of the large local market to the US

BSB sounds interesting too, but my recommendation for BW is to study FOR and GIG 1st. The key for BW success to any route to Brazil, Peru or Argentina (!) will be to be able to offer immediate connections @POS to/from MIA, MCO, JFK, YYZ, CCS and to get contracts for a constant number of blocks of seats with tour operators in those countries moving passengers to MIA/MCO/NYC/Caribbean.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
GUYAIR707
Posts: 559
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:05 am

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:42 am

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 30):

I know in the early '00 there was a BW 738 GEO-BGI, but that flight might have continued to YYZ and it was in the afternoon, I think it was 600 series flight number. Flew it a few times and connected to BW426 to JFK. Usually had to wait for a few hours in BGI to connect with 426.

I stopped using that connection after a bad experience, used the 424 POS connection after that.

Never flew a L1011 GEO-BGI, but I used it regularly on GEO-POS-JFK back around the time when they rebranded the airline when Aleong was in charge.

Back in the '80's flew the L1011 JFK-POS (loved those flights) and always connected to the MD's for the hop to GEO. I hope BW can graduate to larger aircraft eventually, no only on the LHR route...

GUYAIR707
 
guyanam
Posts: 1954
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:10 am

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 32):



Yes they had a YYZ BGI GEO POS route for a short while. Maybe thats what Carib 484 is getting confused about.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 31):

With AA expanding its routes into northern Brazil out of MIA are you sure it makes sense for BW to jump in? Most Brazilians to the USA are destined to MIA and AA will have a rich feed to other parts of the USA for those moving on. Also the US originating leisure market. Unelss northern Brazil has rich shopping opportunities dont expect too many Trinis to go there. BWIA flights to GRU bombed. I mean terrible loads.

BW needs to focus on its Jamaican routes now and wean itself from dependence on its fuel subsidy. Routes which are risky, as its brand is unknown in Brazil, dont make sense now.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2308
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:16 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 33):
Unelss northern Brazil has rich shopping opportunities dont expect too many Trinis to go there.

As long as the Brazilian Real is strong vs USD, stay away from any shopping in Brazil. Great market for outbound traffic, awful for Higglers-style travellers.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 33):
BWIA flights to GRU bombed.

Did BW offer immediate connections to/from MCO/MIA/JFK/YYZ/CCS for GRU flights at that time?
But have to agree, Brazil from POS is a very risky venture any time in the future, specially if BW doesn't do its new route planning homework.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
andrefranca
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:10 am

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:41 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 31):

Yeah but you should take in count that: MAO is a tax free zone city as Panama itself, so people here earn more than average BEL or FOR citizens, besides that, FOR lives on tourism, I've seen with my own eyes how they strugle to live there, that's the why DL discontinued their flights. (IB is also going the same way).

Right now CM is checking their CM 140, and they got full house, and it's not even high season.

I do agree BW should take GIG or GRU in consideration, but the traffic as someone here said would be made of transiting paxs.

I pray for 7I as it's so boring to go down to bsb and then conect...
 
wadadli
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:51 pm

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:30 pm

Quoting BW424 (Thread starter):
BW drops JFK-ANU service. (Sept.)

It is being said that CAL dropped JFK route because they felt a slap in the face with the government seeking AA/B6 - which turned out to be AA. It makes sense as the route was dropped VERY suddenly and they had good loads for the most part....i was on one of the last flights and 120 out of approx 150 deplaned in ANU. Anyway, honestly there will be no gaps left as AA will commence flights next month from JFK and forward bookings are already very good and there is already talk of it going daily. CO is unmoved by AA entry and will kick start their ANU winter schedule effective 15th December which will not only see number of flights increase to 10 per week but also they will upgrade equipment to 752 (usually only daily 738 until march and april where they have 8-10 flights per week so its a much bigger than usual seasonal increase). DL is becoming a non-factor and i would be shocked to see them around much longer based on their trends here and around the region. It will definitely be a CO/AA market until B6 comes on the scene in future.
 
wadadli
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:51 pm

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:09 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 20):
. The Guyanese population in ANU is maybe 8,000. I dont see this supporting 300 seats/week on a year round basis.

This figure is understated and it is closer to twice that amount....either way, not sure about the viability of this route. However, I wont underestimate them as they are stimulating persons through low fares to take trips they probably wouldnt have otherwise. I know a few persons taking advantage of the low fares to take their family on a trip to Guyana for vacation .BGI-ANU would have been ideal as there is good traffic but we know the governments are likely protecting LI.
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 797
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:20 pm

Today, October 16 marks LIAT's 55th year of operation   . 55 years of flying high! Go LIAT!!!   

Quoting wadadli (Reply 37):
This figure is understated and it is closer to twice that amount....either way, not sure about the viability of this route. However, I wont underestimate them as they are stimulating persons through low fares to take trips they probably wouldnt have otherwise. I know a few persons taking advantage of the low fares to take their family on a trip to Guyana for vacation .BGI-ANU would have been ideal as there is good traffic but we know the governments are likely protecting LI.

Agreed
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
guyanam
Posts: 1954
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:50 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 33):

Why would some one have used BWIA, in unkown airline in Brazil, to connect thru POS, an unknown intransit point, when several nonstops were/are available to MIA/JFK/yyz/CCs from GRU? For people to take BWIA they would have had to dilute yield on their North Am routes. Makes no sense.

The best way to get service to the Caribbean from S America is to do exactly as the Carib govts are doing. Using brands like G3, already well known in their home markets. To acquire additional aircraft to service new routes where the brand is unknown makes no sense for BW when it still has problems with its Jamaican routes. IF it made little sense for JM to focus on leisure routes out of N America, when it was a fairly well known brand in the travel trade, it will make even less sense for BW to jump into S American markets beyond the ones it is already in.

Face it when given a choice third world people will use a first world airline or their own national carriers. Using a third world airline from a country where there are scanty ties, when these others are available, is not likely.
 
luckyone
Posts: 2299
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:15 pm

Quoting BW424 (Thread starter):

Greetings once again to one and all!

Welcome to the 91st instalment of the marathon Caribbean Aviation Thread. This instalment is dedicated to an island the majority of us know of, but not extensively. It's an island that is commonly misidentified or mis-associated with it's Latin Caribbean neighbours (Dominican Republic) by persons unfamiliar with the region. It's an island with rich culture and nature that has been literally untouched for centuries. This island is none other than DOMINICA.
Quoting BW424 (Thread starter):
There are two small airports on the island. The primary airport, Melville Hall Airport (DOM), is on the northeast coast. The second is Canefield Airport (DCF), about 15 minutes from Roseau on the southwest coast. Melville Hall Airport is suitable for limited use of commercial jets because of runway length. Melville Hall currently has regular service by American Eagle,Winair, BVI Airways, Conviasa and LIAT using twin turboprop aircraft as well as Amerijet, which, using Boeing 727 Freighters, is the only airline with jet service to the republic. A runway extension and service upgrade project began at Melville Hall around 2006 and was finished in 2010.

I typically ignore this thread, but since I used to live in Dominica, I will chime in on this one! Just to add some insight.
The ride to airport can be nauseating. The straightest portion of road outside of Roseau is only about 1/2 mile long. Everything else is winding and full of hair-pin turns. Both Portsmouth and Roseau are about an hour away from the airport, which was chosen because it sits in a natural valley that abuts the Atlantic Ocean. The airport is basically three rooms. There's an open-air space for check-in that has what are literally called "Big Ass Fans" hanging from the ceiling. They must be ten feet in diameter. As you enter, LIAT has the left-most counter, the Winair counters are in the center, next to the line for departure tax, and all the way to the right are the American Eagle stations. You leave that room after checking in, and go back outside to security. You go through security into a thankfully air conditioned hold room that as of April 2010 has WiFi. From there, if you're flying LIAT you typically wait longer than scheduled, as LIAT stands for Leave Island Any Time. LIAT flies nonstop to Antigua, Barbados, Guadeloupe, and at select times nonstop to San Juan, and that flight leaves very early in the morning (ie you have to leave your house around 4am if you want to make it). American flies only to SJU. BVI flies on behalf of Winair to SXM, in VERY small aircraft that don't seat more than fifteen. I have never seen the Conviasa aircraft on the ground, but I am told they fly to Porlamar.
When it comes time to board your aircraft, they tell you to line up at either "Gate" 1 or 2, which in reality are doors on either side of a podium. They both open to a sidewalk, and you walk out to your plane. Take offs are typically done over the water, toward the East. You can clearly see where a lot of the beach was reclaimed to extend the runway. The road approaching the airport runs along the beach, and the swells there are usually very big, and then it curves around the end of the runway. Sometimes the aircraft will literally fly fifty feet over your head if they're coming from the East, but that doesn't happen very often, usually only in bad weather or at night. Landing is interesting. Typically flights arrive from the West. The approach is over the Northern part of the island, through the mountains/hills and several hair raising turns until somehow the runway comes into view.
Upon arrival you are escorted into the third room, which simultaneously serves as Immigration, Baggage Claim, and Customs. First immigration, which is sometimes friendly, sometimes not. Then baggage claim. For some reason they have a belt, but it is laughably small. It would be easier just to have people walk to the baggage truck. Then customs, which is more fickle than immigration. Once they tried to impart a duty on my laptop computer, that was over two years old.
Should anybody find themselves flying out of DOM any time soon, I would recommend Pagua Bay, which is five minutes from the airport. They offer a GREAT lunch and very good drinks, and it definitely beats sitting in the Melville Hall Airport which when I lived there only had a small snack stand separated from the airport. Nothing but a bathroom was behind security. They were in the process of building a small restaurant between check-in and security, but knowing island time god knows how long that will take. Hopefully by now it's open!

Quoting BW424 (Thread starter):
Boiling Lake

An absolute bitch to get to. It's a three or four hour hike each way, plus the nauseating car ride to get to the starting out point.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2308
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:25 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 40):
The ride to airport can be nauseating.

Panamanian football team just experienced that from and to the airport 2 weekends ago when flying to the island for a CONCACAF Brazil FIFA Football World Cup 2014 qualifying match. It might be the only impression from Dominica that will stick on their minds for a lifetime.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
luckyone
Posts: 2299
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:38 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 41):
Panamanian football team just experienced that from and to the airport 2 weekends ago when flying to the island for a CONCACAF Brazil FIFA Football World Cup 2014 qualifying match. It might be the only impression from Dominica that will stick on their minds for a lifetime.

Not surprised at all. Almost every time I did the drive to/from the airport we had to stop for somebody to toss their cookies. The smart thing to do is sit in the front if you can. If you can't sit as close to the front and in the middle of the seat. As a side note I wasn't aware Windsor Park would be very good for viewing soccer/football, as it's main purpose is cricket.
 
guyanam
Posts: 1954
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:16 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 42):

I wonder what your impression of Dominica would have been if you had been there 30 years ago. The road was even narrower and had way more pot holes.
 
andrefranca
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:10 am

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:05 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 43):

I've visited dominica february this year and they were widening the roads... but the island is still lost in time!





 
baje427
Posts: 391
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:04 pm

Its mid October are CAL ATR-600's still on schedule?
 
LIA310
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:32 pm

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:11 pm

Quoting baje427 (Reply 45):

9Y-TTA should be arriving on October 31.
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:51 pm

Guess who is on here way to BGI, the Boeing 787

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE6

So wish I was there to get some pics of that nice plane.

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
baje427
Posts: 391
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:49 pm

I hope I can get off work in time to see the 787 anyone know why its coming to BGI
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: The Nature Island- Caribbean Aviation Thread 91

Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:03 pm

Quoting baje427 (Reply 48):

For humidity testing, initially these tests had been scheduled to be conducted in Guam but due to logistic issues I think they changed them to BGI.

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!

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