stl1326
Topic Author
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:53 pm

Does anyone have any insight on if this is true? I looked on aa.com and nothing is showing up after Feb. 8th. It would not suprised me to see AA drop STL-DCA. Although I would be greatly disappointed as this would only leave Delta flying the route with regional jets.
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:58 pm

The route will be going from AA M80's to Eagle CR7's effective 2/9/11. Still three flights a day.
 
FutureUScapt
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:39 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:16 pm

Quoting stl1326 (Thread starter):
Although I would be greatly disappointed as this would only leave Delta flying the route with regional jets.

Well, you won't have to worry about that much longer since DL will be dropping the route once the slot swap is approved.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:16 pm

Quoting stl1326 (Thread starter):
Although I would be greatly disappointed as this would only leave Delta flying the route with regional jets.

I expect US will start it within the next year to 18 months. Besides ATL, I believe STL is the largest city within the perimeter they don't serve from DCA by a pretty good margin.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 2305
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RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:34 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
I expect US will start it within the next year to 18 months. Besides ATL, I believe STL is the largest city within the perimeter they don't serve from DCA by a pretty good margin.

I agree that US will launch the route upon the completion of the slot swap (US previously flew it for a very short time in the 1990's). However there are several cities larger than STL that don't have DCA service from US namely Chicago (US has flown it before), Houston (US has flown it before), Atlanta (US has flown it before) and MSP.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:38 pm

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 4):
However there are several cities larger than STL that don't have DCA service from US namely Chicago (US has flown it before), Houston (US has flown it before), Atlanta (US has flown it before) and MSP.

I expect they'll start MSP, and IAH and ORD have UA codeshares.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:38 pm

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 4):

I have flown ATL-DCA several times on DL, including last month.
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1699
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:49 pm

Disappointing that only regional jets will be offered in the route - although with American I can't say I'm surprised. It would be nice if American exited the market all together and gave Delta or US Airways the opportunity to fly it with larger aircraft.

Hopefully US Airways when the slot swap is complete will offer it with E175's or E190's. I think those are far more comfortable than CR7's.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:59 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 6):
I have flown ATL-DCA several times on DL, including last month.

The poster is talking about US Airways, not Delta:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 4):
However there are several cities larger than STL that don't have DCA service from US namely Chicago (US has flown it before), Houston (US has flown it before), Atlanta (US has flown it before) and MSP.

I guess with DL and FL flying ATL-DCA, US was the odd man out on the route, although I would venture to guess that there are some cities they serve out of DCA that neither DL or FL offer service to, but not enough connecting traffic from the ATL service to justify keeping it. With FL being taken over by WN, this makes things even more interesting at DCA.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 1):
The route will be going from AA M80's to Eagle CR7's effective 2/9/11. Still three flights a day.

That sounds about as bad of a downgrade when DL put Comair CRJ-100/200s on the DCA-BOS Shuttle route about a decade or so ago, replacing the 738s.
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):

I expect US will start it within the next year to 18 months. Besides ATL, I believe STL is the largest city within the perimeter they don't serve from DCA by a pretty good margin.

Nope, off the top of my head, Houston, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and Miami are all bigger, and I also think Cleveland is a little larger.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11646
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:11 pm

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 9):
Nope, off the top of my head, Houston, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and Miami are all bigger,

SFL has service.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 9):
and I also think Cleveland is a little larger.

The CSAs are virtually identical in size; the St Louis MSA is quite a bit larger than the Cleveland MSA (which excludes Akron and Canton).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
707lvr
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:41 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:29 pm

Sign of the times, I guess. Pretty sure this was the first flight I ever took, DCA-STL and return, summer 1945, on a DC-3. Threw up (so they said.)
 
ScottB
Posts: 5504
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:40 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 8):
That sounds about as bad of a downgrade when DL put Comair CRJ-100/200s on the DCA-BOS Shuttle route about a decade or so ago, replacing the 738s.

BOS-DCA only briefly saw substantial mainline service at the turn of the millenium (up to 9 daily round-trips, but far from hourly); it has never been a Shuttle route for Delta in the same way that it was for US Airways.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
I expect they'll start MSP, and IAH and ORD have UA codeshares.

US doesn't codeshare on the all-CO-operated DCA-IAH service, and it does not codeshare on DCA-ORD, either. US also does not serve EWR from DCA (and the population of northern NJ alone is substantially larger than that of the St. Louis metro area).
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11646
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:50 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
US doesn't codeshare on the all-CO-operated DCA-IAH service, and it does not codeshare on DCA-ORD, either.

No, although they show and sell the UA flights, so it's sort of a distinction without a difference.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ScottB
Posts: 5504
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:55 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):
No, although they show and sell the UA flights, so it's sort of a distinction without a difference.

You can't buy just DCA-ORD operated by UA on usairways.com actually. It's only sold as a leg of a connection.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11646
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
You can't buy just DCA-ORD operated by UA on usairways.com actually.

Huh - when did ORDDCA become "hub-hub?" It certainly used to be "cross-sold" back when both operated it.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
stl1326
Topic Author
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:13 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 1):
The route will be going from AA M80's to Eagle CR7's effective 2/9/11. Still three flights a day.

That explains it.....I guess they are still loading the new schedule. At least they are not dropping the route completely.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:52 pm

I would be pretty sure WN would launch STL-DCA with a transfer of slots ASAP, so it could easily compete with the abundance of RJ's if that becomes the case.

Too bad about AA dropping mainline! Is this due to MD80 retirements or yield issues or what?

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
FutureUScapt
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:39 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:02 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
I expect US will start it within the next year to 18 months. Besides ATL, I believe STL is the largest city within the perimeter they don't serve from DCA by a pretty good margin.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
I expect they'll start MSP, and IAH and ORD have UA codeshares.

I expect you'll be proven correct.

Quoting Lambertman (Reply 7):
Hopefully US Airways when the slot swap is complete will offer it with E175's or E190's. I think those are far more comfortable than CR7's.

You might see an E70/E75 on the route, but I would not look to see an E90 on a route like that.



Quoting atrude777 (Reply 17):
I would be pretty sure WN would launch STL-DCA with a transfer of slots ASAP, so it could easily compete with the abundance of RJ's if that becomes the case.

I think it will come down to whether or not the DOT will alter the way in which it proposes the DCA/LGA slots to be auctioned off. As it stands now, one winner will take all eight divested slots in DCA but every eligible carrier has opposed this proposal sans WN. If the process is not changed and WN wins all eight, I would agree that STL will probably see DCA service. If it is changed and WN only ends up with, say four or five, I'm less convinced.

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 17):
Too bad about AA dropping mainline! Is this due to MD80 retirements or yield issues or what?

If I were to guess, I would suspect they are running relatively low load factors on the route at the fares they are charging (coupled with the lack of any material connecting traffic nowadays) so it makes sense to downgauge this route and redeploy the M80s on a route where extra seats are needed.

[Edited 2011-10-09 16:03:28 by srbmod]
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:43 pm

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 18):

I think it will come down to whether or not the DOT will alter the way in which it proposes the DCA/LGA slots to be auctioned off. As it stands now, one winner will take all eight divested slots in DCA but every eligible carrier has opposed this proposal sans WN. If the process is not changed and WN wins all eight, I would agree that STL will probably see DCA service. If it is changed and WN only ends up with, say four or five, I'm less convinced.

When I say transfer of slots, I am referring to the Air Tran side of the Acquisition, nothing to do with US/DL since FL does fly to DCA.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 2305
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:46 pm

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 19):
When I say transfer of slots, I am referring to the Air Tran side of the Acquisition, nothing to do with US/DL since FL does fly to DCA.

I would imagine that WN would launch MDW-DCA and HOU-DCA and maybe BNA-DCA before they launched STL-DCA
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:51 am

CO slots should come open in a few months as well once UA and CO get SOC. I would imagine that UA should get a bunch of these back as I don't think anyone else does IAH or EWR other than CO (which is all they do from DCA I believe). Only way US would fly to some of these large cities is reallocating their current slots. They won't get awarded new slots to serve big cities.
 
N62NA
Posts: 4038
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:54 am

Quoting Lambertman (Reply 7):
Disappointing that only regional jets will be offered in the route

Sometimes it seems that the USA legacy carriers would like to convert ALL their domestic routes to RJs. I'm sure if they could figure out a way to do NYC-LAX on RJs they would!
 
gizmonc
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:51 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:57 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 20):

I don't think so. STL for WN is a huge connect city and most likely it would win over MDW , BNA or HOU. STL is running about 86 flights per day not counting the FL flights. When those come over it will be somewhere around 90+. STL has been rumored to going to upward close to 100 flights but not sure of that time frame.
 
steex
Posts: 1337
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:45 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:21 am

Quoting GizmoNC (Reply 23):
I don't think so. STL for WN is a huge connect city and most likely it would win over MDW , BNA or HOU.

I think the size of operation and geography puts STL in the discussion of service before BNA or HOU, but there is absolutely no chance that WN would favor DCA-STL over DCA-MDW. The connecting operation at MDW obviously dwarfs STL and the market offers significantly higher O&D potential.
 
FutureUScapt
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:39 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:22 am

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 19):
When I say transfer of slots, I am referring to the Air Tran side of the Acquisition, nothing to do with US/DL since FL does fly to DCA.

Ah ok. Well in that case, I disagree  

FL's current DCA slot portfolio is as follows: 6x ATL, 1x RSW, 4x MKE, and 1x MCO. I can't imagine them reducing ATL service (especially given last week's news that they want to re-focus the ATL network around large cities) or cutting the MCO flight. RSW is an AIR-21 slot and, as such, is restricted to RSW only. That leaves only the 4x MKE ones to play with and I don't see how MDW isn't the top candidate on the list.

I think this is all a moot point though, as WN will almost certainly win some/all of the eight slots that will be auctioned off.

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 21):
CO slots should come open in a few months as well once UA and CO get SOC. I would imagine that UA should get a bunch of these back as I don't think anyone else does IAH or EWR other than CO (which is all they do from DCA I believe).

Huh?

CO will not be losing any slots as a result of the merger. All of their DCA slots are owned by them and divesting DCA slots was not one of the conditions specified in approving the UA/CO merger. Only Vision 100 and AIR-21 slots (of which all of the current beyond-perimeter slots are) are non-transferable.

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 21):
Only way US would fly to some of these large cities is reallocating their current slots. They won't get awarded new slots to serve big cities.

Or via one of the additional 42 slot pairs it will receive as a result of the slot transaction...

Quoting GizmoNC (Reply 23):
I don't think so. STL for WN is a huge connect city and most likely it would win over MDW , BNA or HOU. STL is running about 86 flights per day not counting the FL flights. When those come over it will be somewhere around 90+. STL has been rumored to going to upward close to 100 flights but not sure of that time frame.

And why would STL win over MDW?
 
BMI727
Posts: 11172
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:36 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 20):
I would imagine that WN would launch MDW-DCA and HOU-DCA and maybe BNA-DCA before they launched STL-DCA

Definitely MDW and HOU, but I'm not sure about BNA. STL might sneak in there as a stopover from DAL.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 25):
And why would STL win over MDW?

It wouldn't.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
IADLHR
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:22 am

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 25):
RSW is an AIR-21 slot and, as such, is restricted to RSW only

Can an AIR-21 slot be transfered to the acquiring carrier in a merger? I thought the slot had to go back into the pot and be redistributed.

In any event, I hope that soon, very soon, WN finally starts DCA-MDW. The sooner the better.
 
sfredspot
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:15 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:16 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 1):
The route will be going from AA M80's to Eagle CR7's effective 2/9/11. Still three flights a day.
Quoting stl1326 (Thread starter):
Does anyone have any insight on if this is true? I looked on aa.com and nothing is showing up after Feb. 8th. It would not suprised me to see AA drop STL-DCA. Although I would be greatly disappointed as this would only leave Delta flying the route with regional jets.

The MQ flights are loaded now.

[Edited 2011-10-10 04:17:04]
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11646
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:44 pm

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 25):
And why would STL win over MDW?

I don't think it would, but there are two potential answers to your question:

1) DAL access. STL has it. MDW doesn't.

2) WN seems to be making an effort to cater to business travelers in STL, connecting stations like MSP and BOS to STL very early in their lives (albeit not before MDW).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:53 pm

Can someone do some research into where the Eagle CR7s are being shuffled in this upcoming winter? Here's what I can see so far:

LGA-RDU all CR7s removed effective Nov. 17ish.
ORD-YYZ all CR7s removed sometime thereafter

ASE flying starts in December and STL-DCA starts in Feb with CR7s. Any other markets these CR7s are going to this winter?
 
flyby519
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:29 pm

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 30):
Can someone do some research into where the Eagle CR7s are being shuffled in this upcoming winter? Here's what I can see so far:

Rumors of increases in CR7 flying out of LAX
These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:32 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 29):

2) WN seems to be making an effort to cater to business travelers in STL, connecting stations like MSP and BOS to STL very early in their lives (albeit not before MDW).

Same as how EWR-STL was added in the first round, along with MDW.

When I mentioned that DCA-STL would probably be added by WN, I wasn't competing in WHEN it would get added. History has show consecutively, in the major business cities/markets, STL has gotten the new service in the 1st or 2nd round, MSP/BOS 2nd, EWR 1st.

We need to be careful about claiming wright amendment because DCA-HOU can fill that as well, does it mean STL-DCA will occur before HOU, I don't know. It did for EWR example though.

Unless I am wrong, I thought DC Area, BWI/IAD/DCA was a Pilot base as is STL, because of what happened at JFK-BOS with it going mainline due to Pilot Contract, DCA-STL had to remain mainline? I am probably wrong and misunderstood the wording, but if DCA-STL is within pilot base how can AA allow RJ flying?

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
flyby519
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

RE: AA Dropping STL-DCA?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:37 pm

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 32):
Unless I am wrong, I thought DC Area, BWI/IAD/DCA was a Pilot base as is STL, because of what happened at JFK-BOS with it going mainline due to Pilot Contract, DCA-STL had to remain mainline? I am probably wrong and misunderstood the wording, but if DCA-STL is within pilot base how can AA allow RJ flying?

I think it can go to Eagle, as long as Eagle remains a wholly owned subsidiary of AMR... but a spin-off of Eagle from AMR has been approved by the BOD, and a Form 10 filed with the SEC, but nothing further yet.
These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.

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