washingtonian
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How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:24 am

How many ex-Pan Am Flight Attendants are still flying? Obviously many are with United and Delta (PMUA and PMDL respectively), but I'm sure there are some with airlines across the world.

Does your home country airline have any ex-Pan Am F/As? What about other airlines in the US?

I ask because I was wondering when watching Pan Am on ABC tonight how many F/As are still flying today who were flying for Pan Am in 1963...Anybody know of any?

[Edited 2011-10-09 20:24:22]
 
nwa757boy
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:15 am

I live in Austin TX, there is a 1965 hire Pan AM FA that commutes from AUS-ATL.

Last year I did recurrent training with a 1958 hire Pan AM FA. Lives in MIA commutes to ATL.

There are quite of few still flying.
 
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mayor
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:23 am

Anyone seen Cokepopper, lately? She should know.....she's been based at NYC for quite awhile.



I often wonder where the F/As are that we had based in TLV in '91. They had a pretty good gig..........left about 0630 for Paris.....spent all day there and came back to TLV in the evening.
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SEPilot
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:13 am

I suspect that most of them will be getting on-I don't think Pan Am hired very many in the later years. Robert Gandt (author of "Skygods") wrote that when one of the sales of Pan Am routes went through (I believe it was the ones Delta bought) that the seniority was resolved by arbitration, and the Pan Am pilots got royally screwed, because the arbitrator decided on the basis of what their expectations would have been had they remained with Pan Am. Robert Gandt himself was hired as a copilot in the late 60's, and I believe he remained a copilot for his entire time with Pan Am, only becoming captain after he went with United after United bought the Pacific routes. This indicates that Pan Am hired very few pilots after the 60's, and while the 747's only required 2 pilots and a FE, just like the 707's, they did require more FA's. But I still doubt that hiring was very active.
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jfk777
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:31 am

Delta has many ex-Pan AM FA, more then UA, since they took over the biggest chunk of PA. Since its been 20 years some have retired, however while many would like to retire they probably as a group can't afford to retire. When PA went under their pensions went to the PBGC and after DL went Chapter 11 their Delta pensin's got shredded again. Many have to work well into their 60's.
 
panamair
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:35 am

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
how many F/As are still flying today who were flying for Pan Am in 1963...Anybody know of any?

I know a French lady based in NYC with Delta now who started with Pan Am in 1964, and a Swede who started in 1965, with whom I just flew last week. Many of them have either retired now or taken the packages, but there are still quite a few around at Delta, in both NYC and ATL. Many of the more senior Pan Amers left at Delta are 1970s hires.

When Delta took over, they did cut the Pan Am FAs' bidding seniority so as to protect some of the Delta FAs (since PA was going to have more senior FAs than DL). DL protected their first 3000 FAs, and then slot in one Pan Am FA for every 3 DL FAs. As a result, most of the very senior Pan Am FAs who went over lost about half of their bidding seniority (e.g., a 1965 PA hire had about 26 years by 1991 when DL took over, but got 'credit' for about 13 years. Together with the 20 years since DL took over, the 1965 hire today in 2011, has only 33 years seniority, even though she has been flying for 46 years. The younger PA FAs who went over to Delta lost less (they had less to lose given their years with PA) however.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3):
I don't think Pan Am hired very many in the later years.

Pan Am did hire a few hundred new FAs in 1988 when they started expanding their MIA ops. Some of them, usually with foreign language qualifications (which was DL's top priority when taking over Pan Am's ops in 1991), made it over to Delta and are still flying today.
 
planeguy727
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:44 am

In this month's Hemisphere magazine (UA) there is a brief piece on a F/A that started with PA. She's based in either SIN or HKG (can't remember - was one, now the other according to the article).

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Jamake1
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:44 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3):
This indicates that Pan Am hired very few pilots after the 60's, and while the 747's only required 2 pilots and a FE, just like the 707's, they did require more FA's. But I still doubt that hiring was very active.

Pan Am hired F/A's into the late 1980's. In addition to the ones that came over with the Pacific route purchase in 1986 and the LHR acquisition in 1990/91, UA has a number of former Pan Am F/A's that were hired after the carrier's demise in 1991. I've met several who flew for PA for only a few years...from '88/'89 to 1991. Most in that group group have a United seniority date of 1992.
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747400sp
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:14 pm

My cousin was a F/A for Pan Am # 1, sadly we lost contact with her after Pan Am went bankrupt. She should be in her 40's now, so that shows that Pan Am was still hiring in the late 80's/ early 90's, because she would had to be in her 20's back in that time, and kid in the 70's.
 
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:40 pm

The F/As I mention in TLV, were probably in their 20s or at most early 30s in '91, so I would think they are still flying, with someone.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:32 pm

I am working for easyJet based in Beriln and I know about 6 people which worked for Pan Am IGS based in Berlin , they are all in their 40th and 50th and still talk very good about the times with PA !
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1stfl94
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:20 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 5):
Pan Am did hire a few hundred new FAs in 1988 when they started expanding their MIA ops. Some of them, usually with foreign language qualifications (which was DL's top priority when taking over Pan Am's ops in 1991), made it over to Delta and are still flying today

Pan Am were still hiring, one of the flight attendants killed at Lockerbie had only been working at Pan Am for about six months before her tragic death.

A number of other FAs were hired for bases in places like Warsaw, Delhi, Belgrade and Istanbul around the same time, I think the Warsaw based FAs did end up at Delta at JFK.
 
Jackbr
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:35 pm

Does the whole "Pan Am" image of immaculately groomed, sophisticated women carry on to the FAs who are with DL, UA etc now, or do they now just do the job and leave the old days requirements to just that, the old days?
 
Viscount724
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 12):
Does the whole "Pan Am" image of immaculately groomed, sophisticated women

That was just an image. I flew Pan Am frequently in the 70s and 80s and never noticed any signficant difference between their cabin crews and those of other major carriers. And they weren't all women.
 
delta2ual
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:09 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 5):
DL protected their first 3000 FAs, and then slot in one Pan Am FA for every 3 DL FAs.

Yes, we called those 3000 the "sacred cows". LOL
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Jackbr
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:10 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):

That's true - ALL airlines had the same high standards at the time, though Pan Am's "Stewardesses" from multiple different countries and the pre requisites of a second language and college education may (or may not) have led to some added difference?

In the 1960s Pan Am only had male pursers, I suppose with the introduction of the 747 they moved towards male FAs
 
eastern747
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:17 pm

When I stationed to ORD in the mid 70's my office was next to the inflight offices. There was a Personal Appearance supervisor who had to check every F/A before they left on trips. She was herself a Vogue Model from the 50's and was quite attractive. She checked to be sure hair was neat, makeup was proper, shoes were shinned, and finger nails were polished. Then they had to hop onto the scale and had to meet company standards. If not, they were sent home-period!
Then there was a law suit, and all that had to stop among all the airlines. It was about the time men could be hired as a F/A. For the most part, the F/As up until this time had a professional and kept up the standards during their career. Managements concern was that some F/As ballooned out and had a difficult time getting down the asile. Especially the DC-9. TFTF sadly disappeard. (TOO FAT TO FLY)
 
luckyone
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:39 pm

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 11):
A number of other FAs were hired for bases in places like Warsaw, Delhi, Belgrade

How did Pan Am having stewardesses based behind the Iron Curtain or other socialist/communist countries work?
 
canoecarrier
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:40 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 16):
She was herself a Vogue Model from the 50's and was quite attractive. She checked to be sure hair was neat, makeup was proper, shoes were shinned, and finger nails were polished.

She probably is still employed with an airline like Eva Air. The most immaculate crews I've ever seen during the 90's and early 00's when I worked at the airport were from the Far East.

I knew a DL FA that was pretty high up on the seniority list in the early part of the last decade based out of JFK that started her career at Pan Am. She almost exclusively flew JFK-IST, commuted out of SEA and used to bring us back baklava if we'd get her a decent seat commuting to JFK.

I always find this interesting. One of the FO I know she flew with used to get that trip, and he had only a couple years with DL, commuted frequently at the same time she did. Seemed like a cat fight for FA's to get decent bids internationally.
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F9Fan
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:52 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 17):
How did Pan Am having stewardesses based behind the Iron Curtain or other socialist/communist countries work?

They discussed this a couple weeks ago when "Pan Am" started airing. The KGB was very suspicious of PA FAs, which was normal. The CIA actually recruited a few PA FAs, and a few "disappeared" with no one knowing what happened to them.
 
eastern747
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:23 am

The PA supervisor I described was from an era 90% of net people have no idea. After WW2 the fashion houses of Paris shot back to a glorious time. (Google high fashion 1950s). The F/As of that time were looked on as a highly professional carrer. Remember, passengers were not the bus trade. It cost alot of money to fly. A very small number of Americans went overseas. Many airlines like SAS grounded F/As at a certain age and assigned them ground jobs. F/As were not considered waitresses, they were given great respect ............Once again, the glory days of flight was in the twilight...
Please don't bust me for this.... it was what it was!
 
Gasman
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:38 am

I'm not sure about Pan Am, but judging by their age, many of UA's flight attendants are ex. Eastern Airlines.

 
 
delta2ual
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:43 am

Things were stricter then. My mother went to an interview at North Central in 1960 and she said the recruiter told her she didn't qualify because she had dyed her hair. You also couldn't have visible scars at that time.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
skymiler
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:50 am

Just last year I encountered a PA flight attendant still flying for DL who I had crossed paths with on PA flights between JFK and GIG several times in the mid/late 70's. Small world ...
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777way
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:54 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
That was just an image. I flew Pan Am frequently in the 70s and 80s and never noticed any signficant difference between their cabin crews and those of other major carriers. And they weren't all women.

I saw PA crew once at Karachi Airport, they were very ordinary with typical generic dark blue uniforms and interestingly most of the female crew were black, this was late 1980s.
 
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:35 pm

Quoting skymiler (Reply 23):
still flying for DL who I had crossed paths with on PA flights between JFK and GIG several times in the mid/late 70's.

Wow, how did you remember her 30 years later?! What routes is she flying these days?

Quoting 777way (Reply 24):
I saw PA crew once at Karachi Airport, they were very ordinary with typical generic dark blue uniforms and interestingly most of the female crew were black, this was late 1980s.

Didn't realize Pan Am was still flying to Karachi in the late 80s!
 
skymiler
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:57 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 25):
Wow, how did you remember her 30 years later?! What routes is she flying these days?


She was flying ATL - SLC last year. I had noticed that she was was wearing a Pan Am lapel pin so I asked here if she knew Amy Bratt (a quite well known Pan Am FA whom I had met -- and have a signed copy of her book). She said "yes, of course, Amy and I had flown together" and then we chatted from there and figured out where we had met years before. (yes, we are both fairly 'senior" in age ...)
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L1011Lover
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RE: How Many Ex-Pan Am F/As Are Still Flying?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:31 pm

Remember that Pan Am used to have a FA base in TXL for their IGS. About 300 FA's were based there - mostly German nationals, but also Americans and other nationalities, and they came over to Lufthansa in 1990 when Berlin route authorities went back to LH after German reunification.

Quite a number of them are still flying for LH based out of TXL, FRA and MUC.

I just ran into one of them last week, she was heading to ACC from FRA.

The PA FA's now flying for UA mostly came with the Pacific and LHR route aquisition, while DL took over the JFK, TLV, WAW, BOM and DEL bases.

I don't know what happened to the TLV based FA's.

The WAW base was closed in 1997 when DL gave up intra-European routes and 28 FA's were transferred to JFK. In December of 1997 it became an issue again when the INS ruled that their visas were issued in error and wanted to make them leave the US. Here is a short video on the case that ended up at federal court:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T6t0aLGav4

They were finally allowed to stay when the court ruled that a visa once granted acn't be revoked as long as the applicant didn't make a gross error or gave false information.

The DEL base was closed when DL consolidated its India operation in BOM. Some DEL based FA's transferred to BOM, while some others where hired by UA for their newly established LHR-DEL-LHR route (as part of their round-the-world flight). The BOM base was the last of DL's former PA foreign bases to go and was closed when DL started flying US-India nonstop a few years ago and FA's were given compensation.

And back to the original question, I personally know a former Pan Am flight attendant hired in 1960 in Stuttgart, Germany, still flying for World Airways.

Best regards

L1011Lover

[Edited 2011-10-11 11:53:04]

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