flySFO
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Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:19 am

According to SFO's fall update (http://flysfo.com/web/page/newsletter/v311.html), Hawaiian is moving its entire operation from Terminal 1 Concourse C to the International Terminal. What is the reason for this. Does it have to do with the change from B767 to A330 (perhaps the current HA gate cannot handle an A330)? Or does Delta need more room? Looking farther down the road, could this be a sign of other airlines moving out of Term. 1 in order to start remodeling Term. 1? After this move, only DL and F9 will be left in C, and only AS, WN, and US will be left in B unless I am mistaken.


Also, apparently Hawaiian's flights are currently arriving in the International terminal and departing from 1-C. What is the reason for the current split operation? Where does the aircraft RON (Int. Term, 1-C, or remote)?
 
HAL
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:35 am

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the 330 arriving, since the Terminal 1 gates can be a bit small. Anyone in SFO know for sure?

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
flySFO
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:40 am

How much does the physical gate-area requirements of a B767 differ from an A330?
 
ha763
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:56 am

The A330 requires a FAA Group V / ICAO Code E gate while the 767 requires a FAA Group IV / ICAO Code D gate.

[Edited 2011-10-12 01:57:53]
 
ha763
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:16 am

I don't know why, but my previous post got cut off.

The A330 requires a FAA Group V / ICAO Code E gate while the 767 requires a FAA Group IV / ICAO Code D gate.

FAA Group V is for aircraft with a wingspan between 171' (52m) and 214' (65m)
FAA Group IV is for aircraft with a wingspan between 118' (36m) and 171' (52m)
ICAO Code D is for aircraft with a wingspan between 36m (118.1') and 52m (170.6')
ICAO Code E is for aircraft with a wingspan between 52m (170.6') and 65m (213.3')

The A330-200 wingspan is 60.30m (197ft 10in)
The 767-300 wingspan is 47.57m (156ft 1in) (50.9m 167' with winglets)
 
flySFO
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:31 am

Thanks for the quick replies! Are there any kind of charts, diagrams, or documents that list which gates are of what category at SFO or any airport really? That would be interesting to see...
 
briguy1974
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:14 pm

Its a big mystery to everyone at SFO what the eventual plan is with terminal 1. There is a design and there was a plan but all work to remodel the terminal 3 gates vacated by AA have stopped...so where is US going? Where is WN going to go? The international terminal is not an option because it is packed at peak periods of the day. The AS operation could probably use gate A1a and A1b (int. term) without disrupting operations there very much. Someone please clue me in as this information becomes available.
The Hawaiian flight moving to international terminal is no surprise. The international terminal is no where near capacity at its arrival time or its departure time. DL ops are extremely congested at both arrival and departure times for the Hawaiian flight. The A330 could probably only use 1 or 2 gates at current DL gates. It would also nececitate a push on to taxiway A.
My 2 cents.
 
as739x
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:36 pm

Has nothing to do with the A330 and gate group category. Delta's gate 45 can accommodate up to a 747. It has to do with gate availability in the C concourse. DL during the periods HA is on the ground have no gate space. After 830pm, Delta planes can be seen holding for gates every night, some even being held on taxiway Lima on the other side of the 1's.

Quoting briguy1974 (Reply 6):

It's not a mystery. I have posted the plans before. But everyone wants to argue instead of listening. To answer your questions, US will be in E concourse with AC/UA so all Star carriers are behind common security. The only information I have not received is where AS/WN go while T-1 is rebuilt.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
warden145
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:02 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 7):
To answer your questions, US will be in E concourse with AC/UA so all Star carriers are behind common security.

If I may ask, what's the planned timeframe for that move?
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
 
as739x
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:12 pm

This is the big question. It will all depend on the timeline of the E concourse remodel, which last I heard was slowed due to a redesign. With T-2 turning out so fantastic, it's put some pressure on the designs of E and how it turns out. I was told by an AC ramp manager, old friend of mine, that they were told they will be relocated less then 24 months at the International gates. They have now been moved 6 months!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
flySFO
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:42 pm

as739x, do you have any kind of chart of diagram that shows what gates at SFO can hold what size aircraft? I would appreciate it greatly!
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:09 pm

Who ground handles HA in SFO? Because the move could have to do with changing ground handling companies as well...
SEA Ramp, wettest place on earth
 
ha763
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:26 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 11):
Who ground handles HA in SFO?

I believe it is still DGS doing the underwing work. They used to do the above wing until HA decided to have their own people handle the above wing work.
 
briguy1974
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:19 am

as739x...get back to work.. I am sure there is an RJ out there needing to make an MST turn. The word around WN is that the work on the old AA gates at terminal 3 has been halted by US or the airport. So at this point it is more of a timeline question than anything else...so let us all know. What is the new timeline?
 
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CV880
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:51 am

Quoting ha763 (Reply 12):
I believe it is still DGS doing the underwing work. They used to do the above wing until HA decided to have their own people handle the above wing work.

Try Delta unless something has changed. DL has their own Ramp Personnel. In fact the HA Manager there is ex-DL.
 
modesto2
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:14 am

Quoting as739x (Reply 7):
After 830pm, Delta planes can be seen holding for gates every night, some even being held on taxiway Lima on the other side of the 1's.

Yes, happened to me in August when I was arriving SFO from ATL. We arrived about 20 min early and taxied east of 1R to hold for several minutes before gate space became available.
 
as739x
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:54 pm

Quoting briguy1974 (Reply 13):

I have not heard about it being halted. It has been gutted, but obviously nothing past that at this point. I'll as my sources what's on the slate.

You still in Dallas, or back?

Quoting flySFO (Reply 10):

Unfortunately I do not. All I have access to is T-3 and G concourse. But I can tell you which gate can handle what. But no charts/diagrams. But in regards to the DL gates, Northwest occasionally parked 747's at 45a/b as well as the A330's when they were being swapped from the NRT line.

Quoting modesto2 (Reply 15):

It has become a nightly routine for DL and unfortunately for them when it happens around 2230 they get the tour. With 2230 being one of he largest banks of the night, ATC just has no room let DL aircraft just sit on Alpha or Bravo.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:06 pm

Quoting CV880 (Reply 14):
Quoting ha763 (Reply 12):
I believe it is still DGS doing the underwing work. They used to do the above wing until HA decided to have their own people handle the above wing work.

Try Delta unless something has changed. DL has their own Ramp Personnel. In fact the HA Manager there is ex-DL.

Oh thats good, DL and HA are a good fit. I thought it was a company like Swissport or Servisair. So I will jump on the they need a bigger gate because of the A330 bandwagon.
SEA Ramp, wettest place on earth
 
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CV880
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 17):
So I will jump on the they need a bigger gate because of the A330 bandwagon.

Gates 45 and 46 should be able to accommodate the A330 as NW used 45 for the 747's and DL has used 46 for the 777's (charters). It's more like a gate shortage due to F9's use of 41, which is a widebody gate.
 
as739x
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:31 pm

Quoting CV880 (Reply 18):

Thanks CV, some people don't like reading the threads like my reply #7.

I completely forgot about 46 and the 777. Saw a DL 777 there just a month or two ago.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
jacobin777
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:47 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 9):
With T-2 turning out so fantastic

I've flown in/out of T-2 a number of times the past couple of weeks. Its an excellent terminal. That being said, I hate the new windows (or whatever is put on them), can't take good pictures...  
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flyjoe
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:34 pm

Somewhat off topic, but related with the terminals. When you arrive on a US flight in Term B and have to go to the UA for a Star Alliance connection, am I correct you can't do this without exiting security and having to go through security again at the UA gates? What's the best way of making this connection, walking or taking the monorail?
 
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CV880
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RE: Hawaiian Moving Terminals At SFO, More To Come?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:42 pm

Quoting FLYjoe (Reply 21):
hat's the best way of making this connection, walking or taking the monorail?

Yes, You must go thru security again. Either the train or walking via level 1 (garage) or the top level straight across to F, or the longer way thru terminal 2.