Someone83
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SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:44 am

SAS har announced 21 new routes today. It's quite clear that most of these are seasonal, but not sure about the frequencies yet. Also guessing that the routes starting in March maybe more seasonal, than those in June, which I gues only runs during the summer holiday?

Copenhagen:
Kalingrad (from March 25.)
Katowice (from March 26.)
Malaga (from March 30.)
Split (from July 1.)
Dubrovnik (from July 4.)

Stockholm:
Reykjavik (from June 22.)
Alicante (from June 26.)
Barcelona (from March 25.)
Malaga (from March 31.)
Dubrovnik (from March 25.)

Oslo:
Antalya: (From May 12.)
Faro: (From June 26)

Bergen:
Manchester (from Jan 26.)
Malaga (from June 23)
Split (from June 25)
Barcelona (from June 28.)
Palma (from June 29.)

Stavanger:
Nice (from June 24.)
Split (from June 25.)
Barcelona (from June 28.)
Palma (from june 29.)
 
CRJ900
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:02 am

Looks like they are going head-to-head with Norwegian's routes. DBV,PMI,BCN and SPU are extremely popular from Scandinavia, så they'll have good loads, for sure.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
arn777
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:24 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 1):
Looks like they are going head-to-head with Norwegian's routes.

Of course they are. SAS are not proactive but reactive. A lot of the routes launched, especially in Norway, are launched as an result of what Norwegian are doing. Very sad, but true..
 
Luftymatt
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:37 am

Good news for MAN. Any idea what aircraft will be used on the Bergan-Manchester route? Good to see SK expanding  
chase the sun
 
brissedk
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:00 am

Still no CPH-KEF  

Happy to see SK expand. Clearly they want to send a message to DY with at least some of these routes. Will be interesting to see who comes out on top.

I wonder is SKs costbase really has come down to a level where they can compete with DY. Or possibly DYs costbase has increased slightly with their cabin crew becoming more senior. Anyone who might have a clue?

Cheers,
BJ
Frequent flyer based in CPH - mostly heading to: OSL, HEL, KEF, FAE and EWR
 
vadheim
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:49 am

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 3):

Probably B737 (400/500/700/800) like on most routes within or in/out of Norway.
 
eastern023
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:42 pm

None long hauls. I was hoping to see GRU (even with the slot restriction or EZE.
AA will Rise Again!
 
eaa3
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:52 pm

Quoting brissedk (Reply 4):
Still no CPH-KEF

Well there are already 5-6 flights a day operated with 3 757-200´s and 1 757-300 as well as 737-700´s so there´s quite a bit of competition. But nonetheless I agree with you.
 
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shamrock604
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:05 pm

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 7):

I'm disappointed not to see DUB - Bergen. Given how popular the DUB-OSL route has become over the last 3 years, with 3 carriers now operating up to 4 daily flights, And with Bergen and Stavanger seeming popular connections.
 
eicvd
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:42 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 8):
I'm disappointed not to see DUB - Bergen.

Strangely enough there was an SK BGO-DUB flight about a month ago one sunday evening.
COYBIB
 
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shamrock604
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:44 pm

Quoting eicvd (Reply 9):

Yes, was a charter I believe. Definitely a route worthy of some consideration. Norway has become very popular among the Irish.
 
deltamartin
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:48 pm

Great news!

This suites well with their new 4Excellence strategy. I hope it will be successful!
 
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Navigator
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:26 pm

Quoting Arn777 (Reply 2):
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 1):
Looks like they are going head-to-head with Norwegian's routes.

Of course they are. SAS are not proactive but reactive. A lot of the routes launched, especially in Norway, are launched as an result of what Norwegian are doing. Very sad, but true..

I agree with you. And another thing is that Arlanda - Malaga and Barcelona routes are not new for SAS but rather routes that have been served by SAS before and now resumed.
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l1011buff
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:53 pm

To me, it is surprising that no flights are from Goteborg. What routes are flown by SK to/from Goteborg?
 
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Mortyman
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:24 pm

No longhaul ... Guess they don't have enough equipment .. sad
 
anthonya330
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:24 pm

I just hope at some stage that SK will introduce a 3x weekly service from GIB to one of their focus airports.. Would be good for Gibraltar, and also good for the Scandinavian population as a cheaper and faster alternative to AGP. Now the new terminal at GIB is almost completed, it should be good at tempting new airlines to operate, albeit seasonal!
 
SASDC8
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:01 pm

Quoting someone83 (Thread starter):
SAS har announced 21 new routes today. It's quite clear that most of these are seasonal, but not sure about the frequencies yet.

Good news and most sertantly seasonal routes with low weekly frequencies. Nice to see that SVG and BGO get some new SK destinations. Now if only BOO could get a CPH flight   
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CRJ900
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:33 pm

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 16):
Now if only BOO could get a CPH flight

Norwegian is constantly trying out new routes, so why can't SAS start CPH-BOO and CPH-TOS with CRJ900 and upgrade to A319 or B735/6 if demand is there?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
flybynight
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:58 pm

I wish they'd bring SEA back.
Heia Norge!
 
CPHFF
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:06 pm

Quoting flybynight (Reply 18):
wish they'd bring SEA back

I agree. Even though I only flew it once a year, it beats the hell out of transferring at IAD or EWR


Will they require additional Aircraft to cover these routes? If I understand correctly, 2012 will not be the year where the SK fleet will increase (retirements will even out any new additions).

PL
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flybynight
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:14 pm

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 19):
I agree. Even though I only flew it once a year, it beats the hell out of transferring at IAD or EWR


Will they require additional Aircraft to cover these routes? If I understand correctly, 2012 will not be the year where the SK fleet will increase (retirements will even out any new additions).

I'm amazed that SK doesn't have a West Coast North America flight. I believe SEA was their oldest long distance route dating back to 1967 (as old as me actually!!).
A lot of people have switched to Icelandaire which has a great connection to Europe.
Heia Norge!
 
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SRQKEF
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:17 pm

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 19):
it beats the hell out of transferring at IAD or EWR

You can also connect in FRA (LH) KEF (FI) LHR (BA) AMS (KL) and some more in Europe. You don't need to connect in the States.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
David_itl
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:26 pm

Funnily enough MAN has had SK flights to BGO available for all to see for months when you look at the MAN online timetable. Weekly charters starting December running through to April.
 
okobjorn
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:37 pm

Quoting flybynight (Reply 20):
I'm amazed that SK doesn't have a West Coast North America flight. I believe SEA was their oldest long distance route dating back to 1967 (as old as me actually!!).
A lot of people have switched to Icelandaire which has a great connection to Europe.

IIRC the SEA flight was only profitable due to a cargo contract. When SK lost that contract the flight was not profitable anymore.
 
deltamartin
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:39 pm

Quoting okobjorn (Reply 23):

IIRC the SEA flight was only profitable due to a cargo contract. When SK lost that contract the flight was not profitable anymore.

Well, wasn't the A340 a bit big of a plane for the route also? I believe it was more profitable with the 767.
 
Luftymatt
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:46 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 22):
Weekly charters starting December running through to April.


These new flights are no charters, they're a new scheduled operation.
chase the sun
 
AA767LOVER
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:40 am

With Finnair making strong presence in Asia, why doesn't SK try to return to HKG with a A330-300? Could work.
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
 
flybynight
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:44 am

Quoting okobjorn (Reply 23):
IIRC the SEA flight was only profitable due to a cargo contract. When SK lost that contract the flight was not profitable anymore.

I have heard that as well, but that A340 was almost always full. CPH was a great connecting airport to Europe and very popular with employees from Microsoft, etc.
In that case, why didn't they switch to the more efficient A333?
Heia Norge!
 
Checo77
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:19 am

Damn, no PRG again  Any chance of seeing SAS birds in PRG again someday?

Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
AussieItaliano
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:14 am

Quoting flybynight (Reply 27):
Quoting okobjorn (Reply 23):
IIRC the SEA flight was only profitable due to a cargo contract. When SK lost that contract the flight was not profitable anymore.

I have heard that as well, but that A340 was almost always full. CPH was a great connecting airport to Europe and very popular with employees from Microsoft, etc.
In that case, why didn't they switch to the more efficient A333?

I'm sure they ran the numbers with the A333 before deciding to cancel the route. They probably also considered reducing frequency. Considering the history that SK had at SEA, I'm sure it pained them to have to cancel the route due to it being unprofitable.
Third Runway - LHR, Second Runway - LGW, Build Them Both!!!
 
JU068
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:38 am

I am suprised that they have not launched Skopje flights from Copenhagen. It ranks as one of the most popular unserved destination. There are roughly 65 passengers per day flying between the two cities.
 
g2scandinavia
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:55 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 30):
I am suprised that they have not launched Skopje flights from Copenhagen. It ranks as one of the most popular unserved destination. There are roughly 65 passengers per day flying between the two cities.



Hi ju068

The correct number is 32,5 passengers pr "fflight", on an average day. Underserved destinations are always presented with outbound/inbound traffic.

http://www.cph.dk/CPH/DK/B2B/Flyselskaber/Top+25+-+Rutemuligheder.htm

[Edited 2011-10-12 23:01:03]
 
JU068
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:56 am

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 31):
The correct number is 32,5 passengers pr day. Underserved destinations are always presented with outbound/inbound traffic.

Thanks. Well they could still launch a two weekly service, after all they would not face any competition of the route.
 
Someone83
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:30 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 17):
Norwegian is constantly trying out new routes, so why can't SAS start CPH-BOO and CPH-TOS with CRJ900 and upgrade to A319 or B735/6 if demand is there?

The problem is the distance. BOO and TOS are to far north, meaning extra flying time and more cost. And more aircrafts needed

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 6):
None long hauls.

That wasnsn't expected either, as they can't expand long haul without increasing their fleet
 
Someone83
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:31 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 30):
I am suprised that they have not launched Skopje flights from Copenhagen

Skopje is well served with OS via VIE
 
kyrone
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:50 am

Quoting AussieItaliano (Reply 29):
I'm sure they ran the numbers with the A333 before deciding to cancel the route. They probably also considered reducing frequency. Considering the history that SK had at SEA, I'm sure it pained them to have to cancel the route due to it being unprofitable.

SEA hadn't been performing well for years. However, one of the final nails in the coffin for that service was when Lufthansa opened up at SEA. I believe Air France also opened. LH gave STAR customers a wider variety of choices, as AF gave SkyTeam.

In a way, their STAR partner helped kill this route.
 
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Navigator
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:23 am

Quoting Kyrone (Reply 35):
SEA hadn't been performing well for years. However, one of the final nails in the coffin for that service was when Lufthansa opened up at SEA. I believe Air France also opened. LH gave STAR customers a wider variety of choices, as AF gave SkyTeam.

In a way, their STAR partner helped kill this route.

I do not agree with your analysis here. SAS ran with high load factors all the time. I think SAS own high administration costs and lack of efficiency killed both SEA and earlier LAX. SAS probably had about the same yields as for instance AF and LH but could not compete anyway. This is an SAS cost issue. They still have not streamlined their organisation enough to be profitable on routes such as SEA and LAX. Anyway now the far more efficient Icelandair takes a slice of the cake to SEA. I think now that Icelandair has started at SEA it is almost impossible for SAS to get back. And also when you leave a market passengers get to know alternatives which makes it very hard to come back again. So I doubt we will see SAS in either SEA or LAX again but maybe another more efficient scandinavian operator in future. And as long as SAS sticks to CPH as their sole longhaul hub, (except for routes to EWR and ORD), they have no future in the competition against either Icelandair or Finnair I think. Most of the traffic originates from OSL and ARN...
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kyrone
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:33 am

Quoting Navigator (Reply 36):
do not agree with your analysis here. SAS ran with high load factors all the time. I think SAS own high administration costs and lack of efficiency killed both SEA and earlier LAX. SAS probably had about the same yields as for instance AF and LH but could not compete anyway. This is an SAS cost issue. They still have not streamlined their organisation enough to be profitable on routes such as SEA and LAX. Anyway now the far more efficient Icelandair takes a slice of the cake to SEA. I think now that Icelandair has started at SEA it is almost impossible for SAS to get back. And also when you leave a market passengers get to know alternatives which makes it very hard to come back again. So I doubt we will see SAS in either SEA or LAX again but maybe another more efficient scandinavian operator in future. And as long as SAS sticks to CPH as their sole longhaul hub, (except for routes to EWR and ORD), they have no future in the competition against either Icelandair or Finnair I think. Most of the traffic originates from OSL and ARN...

High cost and lack of efficiency definitely played significant roles in the ending of this route. However, the starting of the routes by AF and LH did contribute. When you go from being one of the few options to Europe, to suddenly having competition that may provide better options to passengers, it can't help but have an effect.

I agree that the points you brought up were moreso the major players (or the 'coffin'), however I was merely pointing out other factors that contributed, (e.g. 'the nails')
 
kyrone
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:54 am

Quoting Navigator (Reply 36):
And as long as SAS sticks to CPH as their sole longhaul hub, (except for routes to EWR and ORD), they have no future in the competition against either Icelandair or Finnair I think. Most of the traffic originates from OSL and ARN...

I agree with this statement. The passenger base out of OSL and ARN can support longhaul expansion. More asian traffic funneled through ARN could take the cream away from Finnair on asian routes. Regarding the U.S., unless your Scandinavian,typically there is a lack of awareness of SAS as an option to Europe. Work on U.S. marketing, specifically with transiting passengers through Scandinavia to Eastern Europe (Poland) and other European points, would be extremely beneficial. Aer Lingus takes out ads in U.S. newspapers, why doesn't SAS?

They need to recapture their drive and ambition, and get it going!
 
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:01 am

Quoting Kyrone (Reply 37):
However, the starting of the routes by AF and LH did contribute.

SAS had a very high load factor all the time so it had its market. LH and AF typically do not compete directly in the scandinavian market if there is a nonstop alternative. But in one way competition did affect SAS profitability on this route and that is ticket price levels / yields. Then you run into my explanation again   remember that traffic from SEA to Europe has increased steadily since SAS was alone on the SEA - Europe sector but SAS has always maintained traffic numbers and the competition has maybe taken a share of the growth. So if SAS had a more streamlined operation but more importantly lower administrational costs those routes would still be there. The problem was never lack of passengers but rather not enough yield to cover to high administrational and operational costs.
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SASMD82
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:08 am

Hi! I was about to book a flight AMS-CPH-AMS for next February and I saw the afternoon flight being operated by a MD-87. This is definitely stunning but I expected this plane to be retired a couple of years ago.

Does the re-introduction of the MD-87 have something to do with this strategy?
 
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:10 am

Quoting Kyrone (Reply 38):
Regarding the U.S., unless your Scandinavian,typically there is a lack of awareness of SAS as an option to Europe.

Yes maybe but then again SAS is mostly an option to Scandinavia nowadays. If you want to go to central Europe you do not fly SAS. You did that once when SAS was a quality option in the early days of jettravel with less competition but now you go nonstop to the city of choice. Every European large city has nonstops to US nowadays. So SAS is mainly an option to Scandinavia and also in my view the option with the best service nonstop. So that lack of awareness is probably logical since SAS is not an option anymore and CPH is no longer that favoured place to transfer since it is not geographically on the way to central Europe...

SAS only option as you said is to take care of the scandinavian traffic and fly more intercontinental nonstops out of OSL and ARN. They also need to be more efficient  
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LN-KGL
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:07 am

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 40):
Does the re-introduction of the MD-87 have something to do with this strategy?

They have always had some MD87s (currently SE-DIB, SE-DIP and OY-KHU) and now they are only based at CPH.
 
Luftymatt
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:20 am

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 26):
With Finnair making strong presence in Asia, why doesn't SK try to return to HKG with a A330-300? Could work.


I agree they should return to HKG. I seem to remember the (public) reason SK gave for pulling out of HKG was high landing fees. I'm sure they could make the route work now though.

I'm not sure if the A330--300 has the legs to do HKG from CPH though (I could be wrong) Their A340's would be more suited to this run.
chase the sun
 
sas767
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RE: SAS Announces 21 New Routes

Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:32 pm

Weekly frequencies for the five new routes out Copenhagen announced here:

http://cphtraveller.dk/nyheder/sas-e...er-med-fem-nye-ruter-fra-kobenhavn

Kaliningrad, Katowice and Malaga will be year round from CPH while Split and Dubrovnik will be summer seasonal.

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