santos
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BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:43 am

British Airways in Summer 2012 season is adding 3rd Daily service to Miami and 8th Daily service to New York JFK, out of London Heathrow.

Effective 25MAR12
Schedules:

London Heathrow – Miami Increases from 2 to 3 Daily
BA207 LHR1105 – 1515MIA 744 D
BA209 LHR1335 – 1745MIA 744 D
BA205 LHR1455 – 1920MIA 772 124
BA205 LHR1500 – 1925MIA 772 x124

BA206 MIA1720 – 0640+1LHR 744 D
BA208 MIA2035 – 0955+1LHR 744 1
BA208 MIA2040 – 1000+1LHR 744 x1
BA204 MIA2230 – 1200+1LHR 772 D

London Heathrow – New York JFK Increases from 7 to 8 Daily
BA117 LHR0830 – 1100JFK 744 D
BA175 LHR1000 – 1240JFK 744 D
BA173 LHR1130 – 1400JFK 744 D
BA177 LHR1300 – 1540JFK 744 D
BA115 LHR1505 – 1740JFK 744 D
BA113 LHR1600 – 1840JFK 744 D
BA179 LHR1800 – 2050JFK 744 D
BA183 LHR2000 – 2235JFK 744 D

BA178 JFK0800 – 1940LHR 744 D
BA112 JFK1840 – 0635+1LHR 744 D
BA174 JFK1910 – 0655+1LHR 744 14
BA174 JFK1910 – 0700+1LHR 744 x14
BA176 JFK1930 – 0720+1LHR 744 D
BA116 JFK2040 – 0835+1LHR 744 D
BA172 JFK2125 – 0915+1LHR 744 D
BA114 JFK2155 – 0935+1LHR 744 D
BA182 JFK2235 – 1030+1LHR 744 D
 
727LOVER
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:29 am

How many seats is that on JFK-LHR daily?

Do they still do JFK-LGW?
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jfk777
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:32 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 1):
Do they still do JFK-LGW?

NO LGW from JFK.
 
727LOVER
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:38 am

When did that route stop? When JFK-LCY started?
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downtown273
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:56 am

Quoting santos (Thread starter):
BA205 LHR1455 – 1920MIA 772 124
BA209 LHR1335 – 1745MIA 744 D
BA205 LHR1455 – 1920MIA 772 124
BA205 LHR1500 – 1925MIA 772 x124

BA208 MIA2035 – 0955+1LHR 744 1
BA208 MIA2040 – 1000+1LHR 744 x1
BA204 MIA2230 – 1200+1LHR 772 D

Maybe an A380 could merge BA209/205 and BA208/204 into 1 flight? The timings are quite similar.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:14 pm

"When did that route stop? When JFK-LCY started?"

Before that. It used to be a 767 I think
 
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Richard28
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:27 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 5):
Before that. It used to be a 767 I think

IIRC it was a 777, as BA do not operate 767's from LGW.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:17 pm

Given the type of market MIA is, it may be seen odd BA chose to add a 3rd daily from LHR not a daily from LGW (and to FLL).
Surely BA-AA being on OneWorld has a lot to do with that.
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flymia
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 7):
Given the type of market MIA is, it may be seen odd BA chose to add a 3rd daily from LHR not a daily from LGW (and to FLL).
Surely BA-AA being on OneWorld has a lot to do with that.

AA-BA probably has a lot to do with it. But why would they start a new station for one daily flight with no connections at all when they can fly to the airport which more people are likely to want to go to and one where they already have a station opened.
Great news for MIA. Will be nice seeing the BA 744 and 777 at the gate next to each other for a little bit too.
Anyone know if this is a seasonal change since AA did increase LHR to 2 daily in the winter from MIA with 3 MIA-LHR flights I think 3 days of the week during the winter.
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yellowtail
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:03 pm

So you will have BA 3Xdaily, AA 2Xdaily, VS 2Xdaily and don't forget DL.....

The way I see it is that this may be an attempt by AA/BA to trash the yields to the point that DL gets fed up. They may be seeing DL getting a foothold and figured is was now or never to defend the turf.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
heebeegb
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:38 pm

Cant see BA merging any NYC flights, the route is big money earner and it is all about frequency for BA/AA.

BA operated LGW-JFK on a 763 then dropped it and re started on 772 but not for long
 
flymia
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:40 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 9):
So you will have BA 3Xdaily, AA 2Xdaily, VS 2Xdaily and don't forget DL.....

AA 2X daily I think is only in the winter but I could be wrong with a 3rd flight on select days. VS is one daily and also DL daily to LHR.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:54 pm

Quoting santos (Thread starter):
London Heathrow – New York JFK Increases from 7 to 8 Daily
BA117 LHR0830 – 1100JFK 744 D
BA175 LHR1000 – 1240JFK 744 D
BA173 LHR1130 – 1400JFK 744 D
BA177 LHR1300 – 1540JFK 744 D
BA115 LHR1505 – 1740JFK 744 D
BA113 LHR1600 – 1840JFK 744 D
BA179 LHR1800 – 2050JFK 744 D
BA183 LHR2000 – 2235JFK 744 D

BA178 JFK0800 – 1940LHR 744 D
BA112 JFK1840 – 0635+1LHR 744 D
BA174 JFK1910 – 0655+1LHR 744 14
BA174 JFK1910 – 0700+1LHR 744 x14
BA176 JFK1930 – 0720+1LHR 744 D
BA116 JFK2040 – 0835+1LHR 744 D
BA172 JFK2125 – 0915+1LHR 744 D
BA114 JFK2155 – 0935+1LHR 744 D
BA182 JFK2235 – 1030+1LHR 744 D

So does this mean that BA is going back to an all B744 operation at JFK (except BA001 which is the A318)? Are they sending the B77W elsewhere?
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
mogandoCI
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:56 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 12):
So does this mean that BA is going back to an all B744 operation at JFK (except BA001 which is the A318)? Are they sending the B77W elsewhere?

is it true the newest BA First and Premium Econ are only on the 77W ? so BA is flying their flagship route with old product ?
 
ytz
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:01 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 9):
The way I see it is that this may be an attempt by AA/BA to trash the yields to the point that DL gets fed up. They may be seeing DL getting a foothold and figured is was now or never to defend the turf.

Whoever puts up a few A380s is gonna win this game....
 
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lightsaber
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:08 pm

Quoting santos (Thread starter):
London Heathrow – New York JFK Increases from 7 to 8 Daily
BA117 LHR0830 – 1100JFK 744 D
BA175 LHR1000 – 1240JFK 744 D
BA173 LHR1130 – 1400JFK 744 D
BA177 LHR1300 – 1540JFK 744 D
BA115 LHR1505 – 1740JFK 744 D
BA113 LHR1600 – 1840JFK 744 D
BA179 LHR1800 – 2050JFK 744 D
BA183 LHR2000 – 2235JFK 744 D

That tells me LHR-JFK is both about frequency and seats. I see an A388 at the most popular times and possible 787 shrinks at less popular times... But only if BA/AA is able to meet the seat demand.    Otherwise, it will be continued gauge increases.

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 4):
Maybe an A380 could merge BA209/205 and BA208/204 into 1 flight? The timings are quite similar.

Possible... The profit per day would go up.    I do not see the added MIA flight being for frequency. As you noted, the timings are similar. This is for seats at the premium time slot. Thus a gauge increase would make sense.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 7):
Surely BA-AA being on OneWorld has a lot to do with that.

Agreed.

Quoting heebeegb (Reply 10):
Cant see BA merging any NYC flights, the route is big money earner and it is all about frequency for BA/AA.

Frequency is for premium passengers. Hence why I think any non-high demand slots will drop to the 787 (no smaller). But... only after enough A388s are put on the route to meet seat demand at the most popular times.

Lightsaber
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lhr380
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:12 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 13):
is it true the newest BA First and Premium Econ are only on the 77W

The new First is on a lot of 747s now (See TheBAsource for info)
New W/Y is only so far on the new 77Ws
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
mysterzip
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 13):
is it true the newest BA First and Premium Econ are only on the 77W ? so BA is flying their flagship route with old product ?

The new BA First is available on all flights to JFK, except in rare circumstance when there is an equipment substitution. The newer Club is pretty much indistinguishable from the older one. The only difference is the IFE. BA did update their World Traveller and World Traveller Plus cabins with newer seats, new IFE, etc. BA flies all 747s now into JFK, except for the last flight out, which is the 77W.
 
N62NA
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:27 pm

Quoting heebeegb (Reply 10):
Cant see BA merging any NYC flights, the route is big money earner and it is all about frequency for BA/AA.

Frequency and a HUGE amount of seats based on an all 744 schedule. Plus the AA seats. This seems unsustainable.

Quoting flymia (Reply 8):
Great news for MIA. Will be nice seeing the BA 744 and 777 at the gate next to each other for a little bit too.

Too bad we're not getting that 8AM MIA flight. 
 
AirbusA6
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:30 pm

It's extraordinary how BA can operate such a high frequency on the LHR JFK route, at a time when the financial sector is struggling, not with smaller twin jets, but with the 744! If they can fill all the C seats at a decent price, they'll be making a fortune.
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skipness1E
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:32 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
HUGE amount of seats based on an all 744 schedule

BA B744s are hardly high capacity remember, lots of nicely spaced F and J in there, as well as Premium Economy.
 
N62NA
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:40 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 21):
BA B744s are hardly high capacity remember, lots of nicely spaced F and J in there, as well as Premium Economy.

Well, I'm sure BA can better decide what equipment to use than any of us, but from the outside looking in, it just seems like their 777s could offer almost the same amount of F and J seats without hauling around what is likely to be a bunch of empty Y class seats.

Though maybe LHR-JFK shouldn't suffer the "indignity" of being served by 777s in BA's view. (Though 777 and 767 equipment seems to be just fine for BA's EWR service).
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:45 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 22):
without hauling around what is likely to be a bunch of empty Y class seats.

What makes you say this? LHR-JFK isn't empty often as the amount sitting down the front allows good fares down the back which fills the B744. The best offering is undeniably on the B77W but they're only got a small subfleet.
 
bthebest
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:53 pm

Remember there is the Olympics so if they've got the A380s by then they might be using those on other high-density 'olympic' routes, freeing up the 744s for an extra service?
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:56 pm

Quoting santos (Thread starter):
London Heathrow – Miami Increases from 2 to 3 Daily
BA207 LHR1105 – 1515MIA 744 D
BA209 LHR1335 – 1745MIA 744 D
BA205 LHR1455 – 1920MIA 772 124
BA205 LHR1500 – 1925MIA 772 x124

BA206 MIA1720 – 0640+1LHR 744 D
BA208 MIA2035 – 0955+1LHR 744 1
BA208 MIA2040 – 1000+1LHR 744 x1
BA204 MIA2230 – 1200+1LHR 772 D

Funny 5 min shifts among days on some flights. It's not like either LHR and JFK are never prone to delays, and also flying times depend a lot on atmospheric conditions. What's the reason behind this?

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 4):
Maybe an A380 could merge BA209/205 and BA208/204 into 1 flight? The timings are quite similar.

No doubt the A380 will eventually fly some of the JFK flights. I can see 2 of them daily, while time blocks with lesser pax demand can be downsized to 777 or 787.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 7):
Given the type of market MIA is, it may be seen odd BA chose to add a 3rd daily from LHR not a daily from LGW (and to FLL).
Surely BA-AA being on OneWorld has a lot to do with that.

No, MIA is not MCO or FLL, the business market there is sizable, and it it AA's mega-hub to SE US, Caribbean, Central and South America.
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N62NA
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:59 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 23):
What makes you say this? LHR-JFK isn't empty often as the amount sitting down the front allows good fares down the back which fills the B744.

Is the Y cabin somewhat full on all those BA 744's on LHR-JFK-LHR? I don't honestly know - we would need someone from BA to confirm this. I suspect though that there are quite a few empty seats in the Y cabin on several of those "shuttle" 744 flights.
 
qqflyboy
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:18 pm

Quoting heebeegb (Reply 10):
Cant see BA merging any NYC flights, the route is big money earner and it is all about frequency for BA/AA.

Wow! Eight daily on BA is interesting, especially since we were told AA will be going five daily next summer (up from four now). 13 JFK-LHR flights daily, now *that's* a shuttle.

Also, we were told JFK-HND will come back June 1, 2012, at which time JFK-NRT will cancel.
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Tristarsteve
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:23 pm

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 25):
Funny 5 min shifts among days on some flights. It's not like either LHR and JFK are never prone to delays, and also flying times depend a lot on atmospheric conditions. What's the reason behind this?

Slot timings. The timetable that is published must reflect the ATC slots.
 
steve6666
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:34 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 25):
I suspect though that there are quite a few empty seats in the Y cabin on several of those "shuttle" 744 flights.

Last time I looked, they were all High J 744s, so "only" 177 or 185 seats down the back to fill. If you've filled 70 Club seats and 14 F seats, do you really care if economy goes out half empty?

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 22):
The best offering is undeniably on the B77W but they're only got a small subfleet

Don't underestimate the upper deck. I have refused upgrades from the upper deck to First in the past.
Also, based on the above, the 77W has 56 Club seats whereas, like I say, I am pretty positive the 744s are pretty much all High J.
A306, A318, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A346, A388, B722, B732, B733, B734, B735, B73G, B738, B742, B744, B752, B753, B762, B763, B764, B772, B773, B77W, B787-8, BAe-146, Cessna Something, DC-10, E175, E195, ERJ145, MD-11, MD-80, PA Something
 
bonusonus
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:36 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 27):
13 JFK-LHR flights daily, now *that's* a shuttle.

Have BA and AA synced up their schedules yet to better take advantage of this shuttle plan?
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:48 pm

The timetable is available at AA, BA and LHR websites.
 
BA0197
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:23 pm

I wonder if all these extra frequencies are coming from the BD slots. I rather thought that they would open new destinations with them: KUL, CLT, PIT. Or switch some Gatwick ops up to Heathrow: TUN springs to mind.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:11 pm

"Frequency and a HUGE amount of seats based on an all 744 schedule. Plus the AA seats. This seems unsustainable."

They have been doing this high frequency 747 service for years now. Its sustainable.
 
babybus
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:00 pm

Just thinking about the environmental issues here (like BA themselves pretend to do) but isn't that rather a lot of seats?

Surely if it a profitable route they should look at increasing their fares for better yield. I hope when the A380 comes in we will see maybe max 4-5 flights a day.

BA can be a little OCD sometimes.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:18 pm

Oh dear me the business acumen on here is woeful sometimes. London to New York is one of the highest yielding routes, part of the reason is market domination and frequency. Don't kill the goose that laid the golden egg. What an odd complaint, too many flights on a major city pairing.
 
blueflyer
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:00 pm

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 23):
Remember there is the Olympics so if they've got the A380s by then they might be using those on other high-density 'olympic' routes

BA delayed and extended delivery compared to the initial schedule. First A380 should arrive in 2013, the last in 2017.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 25):
Is the Y cabin somewhat full on all those BA 744's on LHR-JFK-LHR? I don't honestly know - we would need someone from BA to confirm this.

They do pretty good in the back too, especially around the holidays. Christmas shopping in New York is almost a British tradition by now...

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 34):
London to New York is one of the highest yielding routes, part of the reason is market domination and frequency.

I wouldn't deny that frequency plays a large role into their dominance of the market, but if ETS are as bad as they're made out to be, there might be a case to consolidate two or four flights into one or two A380s.
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N62NA
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:08 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 32):

They have been doing this high frequency 747 service for years now. Its sustainable.

Is JFK-LHR profitable for BA? (Actual facts please. I honestly don't know, though I keep reading here that it is.)


Also... no comments on the MIA expansion and in my opinion the disappointment that MIA isn't getting a daytime flight to LHR?
 
bonusonus
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:24 pm

BA178 JFK0800 – 1940LHR 744 D
AA142 JFK0935 - 2130LHR 772
AA100 JFK1820 - 0620+1LHR 772
BA112 JFK1840 – 0635+1LHR 744 D
BA174 JFK1910 – 0655+1LHR 744 14
BA174 JFK1910 – 0700+1LHR 744 x14
BA176 JFK1930 – 0720+1LHR 744 D
BA116 JFK2040 – 0835+1LHR 744 D
AA104 JFK2105 - 0900+1LHR 772
BA172 JFK2125 – 0915+1LHR 744 D
BA114 JFK2155 – 0935+1LHR 744 D
BA182 JFK2235 – 1030+1LHR 744 D

ok, this is the best I could do with adding AA's schedule to BA's. Now I remember why I don't usually do this and I leave it to the experts. Let me know if I screwed it up.
 
flymia
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:35 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 36):
Is JFK-LHR profitable for BA? (Actual facts please. I honestly don't know, though I keep reading here that it is.)

I doubt a route that gets 8 daily flights is not making a lot of money. Why else would they fly it?
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:48 pm

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 37):
ok, this is the best I could do with adding AA's schedule to BA's. Now I remember why I don't usually do this and I leave it to the experts. Let me know if I screwed it up.

You missed one - AA's last JFKLHR departure, which is around 11pm.
a.
 
N62NA
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:23 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 38):
I doubt a route that gets 8 daily flights is not making a lot of money. Why else would they fly it?

Yes, I would presume that too, but.... I've never actually seen any FACTS here about whether LHR-JFK-LHR is actually profitable or not for BA (and now BA/AA/IB).
 
HKG212
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:28 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 40):
Yes, I would presume that too, but.... I've never actually seen any FACTS here about whether LHR-JFK-LHR is actually profitable or not for BA (and now BA/AA/IB).

This is hardly an experimental route. BA has been in this market forever with huge capacity, and their lead is such that they don't need to add more capacity unless they know they will make money on it.

That said, the numbers are astonishing, especially considering the other players in the NYC-LON market (UA/CO, DL, VS).
 
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flylku
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:28 am

Quoting YTZ (Reply 14):
Whoever puts up a few A380s is gonna win this game....

Only in a market that is price versus frequency sensitive.
...are we there yet?
 
flymia
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:16 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 40):
Yes, I would presume that too, but.... I've never actually seen any FACTS here about whether LHR-JFK-LHR is actually profitable or not for BA (and now BA/AA/IB).

I never seen any airlines give out financial facts about any route they fly.
They make money on the route this is not a question.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
astuteman
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:17 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 1):
How many seats is that on JFK-LHR daily?

For BA?
In what I understand will become their "standard" 744 configuration

14 x 8 = 288 1st class seats
52 x 8 = 416 Club world seats
36 x 8 = 288 World Traveller Plus seats
227 x 8 = 1 816 World traveller Seats

329 x 8 = 2 632 seats in total

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
That tells me LHR-JFK is both about frequency and seats.

Sort of blows a hole in the "Frequency OR capacity" digitality we display on A-net, doesn't it?  

Hard to see this route not seeing BA A380's fairly soon after EIS..

Rgds
 
UAL777UK
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:35 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 34):
Don't kill the goose that laid the golden egg. What an odd complaint, too many flights on a major city pairing.

I tend to agree but the flip side is dont put all your eggs in one basket. If as it seems we could go into a double dip recession I would have thought the economics of that massive frequency would be called into question. Time will tell.

Quoting santos (Thread starter):
BA178 JFK0800 – 1940LHR 744 D

Could BA not make this departure from JFK a little later so you dont have to get up silly o'clock state side , say depart at 9.30/10? or is that covered by AA. I would have thought that not too many peope are transitting in LHR at that time of night, so landing at say 9.30/10pm would not be too bad, you head home/to the hotel...crash out and your ready to take on the world the next day. I realise slots are an issue to be taken into consideration as well of course.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:34 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 45):
I tend to agree but the flip side is dont put all your eggs in one basket. If as it seems we could go into a double dip recession I would have thought the economics of that massive frequency would be called into question. Time will tell.

Yes except the only markets BA make substantial profits in a deregulated environment is the North Atlantic. The other basket is called "Madrid", IAG seem to be behaving more like a single company than AF / KLM I think. We shall see.

I am not sure whether this is the best route for the A380 but I suspect we'll see it at JFK. It's worth remember that this takes BA's New York presence to :

BA LHR-JFK x 8 B744
BA LHR-EWR x 3 B772
BA LCY-(SNN)-JFK x 2 A318

Fourteen flights into NYC from London per day on BA. Clearly their number one market.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:45 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 46):
Clearly their number one market.

And some!...I guess VS is "holding their own" on this route?, UA/CO serve EWR and with the capapcity they have there at present that probably looks after itself as well what with the merger/contracts/FF's etc but I wonder how DL is doing on the JFK- LHR routes....Jeez, the daily seat count between NYC and LON is astronomical!
 
B747-4U3
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:51 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 45):
Quoting skipness1E (Reply 34):
Don't kill the goose that laid the golden egg. What an odd complaint, too many flights on a major city pairing.

I tend to agree but the flip side is dont put all your eggs in one basket. If as it seems we could go into a double dip recession I would have thought the economics of that massive frequency would be called into question. Time will tell.

If there is a double dip then BA could quite easily reduce the frequencies again, use smaller aircraft or use tactical cancellations as they have done in the past.

I find it hard to understand the fixation on airliners.net with BA's supposed "over-reliance" on North America. BA flies a huge number of US routes because that is where they make their money - even in a recession. During the financial crisis some stats from BA (I think an investor day) were posted on here. If you look at the stats, during the recession it wasn't North America that was the problem for BA, it was India and East Asia (in other words, North America either made more or lost less that other markets). Recession or no recession, the US and UK have extremely strong links for both business and leisure. If a recession hits, traffic may drop between the US and UK but then travel will drop on routes, and due to the links travel will be greater to the US in any case.
 
babybus
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RE: BA To Add 3rd Daily MIA & 8th Daily JFK

Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:17 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 46):
Yes except the only markets BA make substantial profits in a deregulated environment is the North Atlantic.

Not trying to challenge your comments at all, they are all as valid as anyone else's, but I think we need to point out that no one here on A.net knows what profits are made on any BA route. That would be an airline boardroom secret.

We can't judge frequency as the only sign of profitability. Government subsidies, snuffing out competition, national pride, national interest and covert military operations all play a part in national airline operations.

The argument that BA is a private airline doesn't hold much water. It's a national airline operated by private industry.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.