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The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:21 pm

Pilots/Cabin crew:

What is your company's most senior/popular route, I understand in Europe/US they are allocated on a seniority basis, in Asia, it is mostly rostered into the flight.

Kev
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Atlwest1
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:26 pm

At FL for cabin crew the most senior routes are ATL-LAX,PHX,SFO,SEA,LAS done as a day turn or a redeye. They are usually worth high hours and you can fly maybe 7-9 a month and be done. Some fly there bare minimum(70hrs) so that can be accomplished by flying 6 of those day turns maybe 7. The internationals tend to be free range.
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apodino
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:31 pm

At ZW, the most senior crew domicile on the CA side is PHL, but DCA and ORF also have very senior guys as well. On the FO side, LGA is the most senior domicile.

As for routes, for whatever reason Stand Up trips (Often called CDO's or High Speeds at other carriers) are popular among senior guys. The way the routes are built though, it is tough to say which is senior because these always seem to be changing. I can tell you that one senior ORF captain says he always bids trips through LGA because with the notirous long taxis and inbound holding, the flights always end up over blocked, which means more money for him.
 
NWAESC
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:19 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
On the FO side, LGA is the most senior domicile.

Wow! O_o

Wouldn't have expected to see LGA be senior for *anyone*...
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apodino
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:30 pm

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 3):


Wouldn't have expected to see LGA be senior for *anyone*...

It boils down to this. LGA is an easy commute, and since there are no more RON aircraft, the trips do not start real early or end real late the way they do in other locales (ORF is notorious for this). Thus a lot of crews can be based in LGA and don't have to spend a lot of money on crashpads and stuff, especially if they live elsewhere in the Northeast where there is easy service to LGA from.

PHL and DCA are hub cities with lots of service but the trips start earlier or end later in those cities, which is why they tend to be more senior on the captain side, because Captains are more likely to be able to afford hotel rooms near the airport than FOs, which is why LGA is more senior on the FO side.

ORF is notorious for trips starting real early and ending real late. On top of that ORF is not known as an easy city to commute to. However a lot of people agree that the people based in ORF are arguably among the most pleasant people to work with out of any crew domicile.

RDU also has Early Shows and Late endings, but this domicile is so small that people who are based there are usually people that don't have to commute much.


With the slot deal in place, the LGA domicile is most likely going bye bye. And with the limited RDU schedule that ZW now operates, I am not sure how much longer a domicile can be justified there. MKE would be a justifiable domicile with the amount of RON mx there, but I don't see it happening. If it did happen though, MKE would quickly become the most senior domicile at ZW without question.
 
sflaflight
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:44 pm

I would not have expected ORF to be a crew base for ZW. Does anyone have info on that base (when, why) it was chosen?
 
apodino
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:18 am

Quoting sflaflight (Reply 5):
I would not have expected ORF to be a crew base for ZW. Does anyone have info on that base (when, why) it was chosen?

Sure do, ORF is ZWs second biggest MX facility (Behind PHL) and as a result overnights several aircraft in ORF. Because of all the RON's that they have in ORF, it is more economical to the company to maintain a crew domicile in ORF rather than overnight a bunch of crew members in hotels. ORF has been a ZW domicile ever since the US flying started back in 2005.

LGA is almost certainly going to close with the slot deal, and I wouldn't be surprised to see RDU shut down as well. One thing to note is that although CLT is ZW's second largest city in terms of number of departures, they do not RON a single plane in CLT and thus have no crew domicile or MX presence at all in CLT. For the same reason, with the CAE MX base that just opened up, CAE may become a domicile in the near future.
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:29 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
Sure do, ORF is ZWs second biggest MX facility (Behind PHL) and as a result overnights several aircraft in ORF. Because of all the RON's that they have in ORF, it is more economical to the company to maintain a crew domicile in ORF rather than overnight a bunch of crew members in hotels. ORF has been a ZW domicile ever since the US flying started back in 2005.

Sounds a bit like what LOF did with their RIC crew base for a few years until it transferred to IAD last year, no? Even though the crew base transferred, my understanding is that they still have their mx fac in RIC.
 
mjzair
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:44 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 4):
However a lot of people agree that the people based in ORF are arguably among the most pleasant people to work with out of any crew domicile.

I really don't want to hijack this thread, but as an LGA FO, I might argue this point, and on top of that, I really don't think this is an appropriate statement to make on a public forum such as this one.


But yes, being so regionalized, I don't think there is a senior trip per say, just senior start and end times.. it seems like at LGA all the trips are just rearrangements of BGR, RIC or CHS overnights, so the trips just seem to go in order of weekends off, late reports, early finishes.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:45 pm

New York (any airport) usually goes senior or junior or both.

What do I mean?

There's a contingent of people that want to be there because they live there or live near there.

Then there's contingent of people that have an easier commute there (fly in)

Then there are the airlines such as DL, B6, AA, and CO which have rather large bases there and people get forced there due to seniority (or lack thereof)
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:31 pm

Ive heard DFW-NRT is the most senior at AA. Could be wrong tho.
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david21487
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:48 pm

You'll see all single and double digit seniority numbers on ATL-DXB, and ATL-JNB. I looked at a DXB rotation the other day and out of a crew of 11, the most junior person was number 846.
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UALFAson
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:54 pm

With UA at IAD, my mom said the NRT and PEK nonstops went very senior. In fact, before she retired, with 37 years of seniority, she couldn't hold certain NRT lines with certain days off.

She also said the Middle East flights went senior at first with everyone wanting to see a new part of the world, but quickly started going very junior. MXP used to go very senior before UA discontinued the route.

I would think that with most US-based carriers at least, the super long-haul flights tend to go the most senior mainly because you only have to work 3-4 of them a month.
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flymia
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:41 pm

How about domestic widebody trips?
I am thinking like MIA-JFK-MIA on a 767 or 777 thats a days work leave in the morning back at night. I would think they go senior? Any info?
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777STL
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:52 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
Ive heard DFW-NRT is the most senior at AA. Could be wrong tho.

I don't doubt it. The few times I've flown it, the entire cabin crew all seemed to be >50 years old.
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UALFAson
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:53 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 13):
How about domestic widebody trips?
I am thinking like MIA-JFK-MIA on a 767 or 777 thats a days work leave in the morning back at night. I would think they go senior? Any info?

Day trips are hit or miss. Some F/As like being home at night; the down side is that you usually work them 3-4 days in a row, which can be a lot.

Crew that commute to their bases would rather work one 3-day or longer trip than to have to keep coming back and forth to the airport.

I don't think aircraft type really has much of an impact. A few people may have biases for or against certain widebody aircraft but crews are typically much more concerned with how many hours the line is worth, how many days they get off and what days of the week, and maybe how nice the layover destination is (CDG and MXP being favs, for example).
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gman3
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:21 am

As a FA for United, I would think that our SEA-NRT is the most senior trip in our system... Most of the flight attendants have Area Codes for seniority numbers. Not too many on that trip have a seniority number over 1000.
 
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longhauler
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:24 am

On narrow body, and the B767 at AC high credit day turns go the highest. YYZ-UVF-YYZ, YYZ-SJO-YYZ, YYZ-SFO-YYZ, etc. On a normal month, one can work only 8 days.

On the B777, it appears to be the high time 3 day pairings, giving a 9 day month. YYZ-HKG-YYZ, YYZ-PEK-YYZ, YYZ-NRT-YYZ, etc.
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WNCrew
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:32 am

At WN it's anything low-leg and HIGH paying. Our duty day is the shortest in the industry for FA's so we can't do BWI-LAX/SEA turns... too long of a day, but I know out of MDW they have LAX/PHX/OAK/SEA/LAS/SFO turns and those go senior.

As for multi-day pairings, we no longer have 4-days so I'd say high-paying 2-day trips go next. We had a 2-day that paid 19.5hrs MDW-LAX-HOU-JAN (10:10 rest) JAN-HOU-PHX-OMA-MDW I hear it was KILLER but it pays as much as our lowest 3-day.

at WN we all tend to do the same KIND of flying. You can't bid into or out of any specific aircraft type so we all pretty much work whatever. I like low-legs and decent pay. All that boarding and deplaning when we're NOT paid is exhausting, but we do flu service on all flights (we try) and it's just too much. Everyone thinks we do a lot of legs in a day... sometimes, but for me, I can say it's been about 4yrs since I've worked more than 5 legs in a day.
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apodino
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:11 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 18):

at WN we all tend to do the same KIND of flying. You can't bid into or out of any specific aircraft type so we all pretty much work whatever. I like low-legs and decent pay. All that boarding and deplaning when we're NOT paid is exhausting, but we do flu service on all flights (we try) and it's just too much. Everyone thinks we do a lot of legs in a day... sometimes, but for me, I can say it's been about 4yrs since I've worked more than 5 legs in a day.

A lot of regional FA Unions would love to have workrules like you describe.
 
WNCrew
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RE: The Most Senior Route For Your Company

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:21 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 19):
A lot of regional FA Unions would love to have workrules like you describe.

I think a lot of FA's in general would love to have our work rules, we're VERY lucky. I'm sure that's in part due to the fact that we're fairly Uncomplicated. We have, essentially ONE fleet, ONE crew size, ONE type of service, no language speaker program, no Intl ops.... it's simple.


...back to the topic at hand!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.