planesmith
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Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:09 pm

I came across this in todays' news - you'd think that if they were to remove two toilets then at least they'd give passengers some room to cross their legs!
Seems the day of 195 seat 738 is about to come...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-provide-extra-seats.html?ITO=1490
 
mandala499
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:26 pm

195 seats on the 738? I'm sure that would require additional exits... Otherwise, if true, they're just doing it to save more weight (only to be replaced by storage for onboard sales items perhaps?    )... and puts a controversial spin into it as per the usual with O'Leary... HOWEVER, this could simply just be another PR stunt by him! (news has been slow regarding Ryanair lately it seems!)
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
GT4EZY
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:41 pm

PR stunt. Aircraft toilets, like most things, can't be relied upon 100% of the time and to have just one would cause all kinds of headaches should it break.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
BA777
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:49 pm

Like the article says, there is no legal requirement to provide a toilet. That being said, It would not be nice if it did become u/s and dispatch was permitted.
 
apodino
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:57 pm

Quoting BA777 (Reply 3):
Like the article says, there is no legal requirement to provide a toilet. That being said, It would not be nice if it did become u/s and dispatch was permitted.

I don't know what the law is in the UK, but in the US you can MEL the lavatory and fly revenue. It happens a lot at the regional carriers since the regional Jets only have one Lav on board in many cases.

This does reek of another publicity stunt by MOL. If you removed the lav and instead installed more seats, I am guessing the weight of the PAX is more than the removed lav, which is going to increase things like fuel burn. Not to mention when nature calls and there are no facilities to use.
 
kaitak
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:07 pm

There may not be a regulatory requirement for a toilet (which surprises me!); however, there is a certified maximum number of pax that a 738 can carry and that's 189, which the FR 738s already carry, so taking away toilets is just a PR stunt.
 
YXD172
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:14 pm

Quoting O'Leary

Quote:
'We're trying to push Boeing to re-certify the aircraft for six more seats, particularly for short-haul flights,'

What does the intended use of the aircraft have to do with the max seating? Isn't it all for evacuation. I agree this is probably all PR, would the benefits of re-certification really outweigh the costs for Boeing?
Radial engines don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory!
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:15 pm

HA only has 1 toilet on its 717s. AQ only had 1 toilet on its 732s. It never happened to me, but I did hear from HA F/As that at times they did fly entire days with the toilet inoperable back in the DC9 days. You really only need one on 20 minute flights. Very few passengers used them....they're used mostly by the crew.

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amccann
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:34 pm

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 7):
HA only has 1 toilet on its 717s. AQ only had 1 toilet on its 732s.

Huh, learn something new everyday. However, you brought up a good point, HA flights in the islands are at a maximum of approximately 215 sm, FR flights can reach a maximum of approximately 2000 sm (example, EDI - LPA).
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. - Ronald Reagan
 
AAMDanny
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:05 pm

I once operated a flight on a B757 config'ed with all Y 225 seats. With the old 'bucket' style Lav's.

We got to TFS from LGW, and the TFS cleaners were on strike and therefore we had no way of emptying the tank, the 1 toilet at Door L1 was already full, and one of the 3 Lav's down at the 3 doors was full too. We was already delayed and if we waited around to try and get it sorted we would had ended up going out of hours, so to get us, the aircraft and the pax home we ended up going with 2/4 toilet's out of action.

Needless too say 2 hours into the flight the remaining 2 toilets filled up.... cringe.

What can you do tho?
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:27 pm

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 7):
HA only has 1 toilet on its 717s

Wow, never knew that about HA's 717s. Especially since FL's 717s had 3 and YX's had 2. Didn't some of those birds (3 (?)) go to another carrier (FL perhaps) but then came back for a period? I guess Lavs can be indeed be added and taken away.

Quoting amccann (Reply 8):
Huh, learn something new everyday. However, you brought up a good point, HA flights in the islands are at a maximum of approximately 215 sm

  

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 2):
PR stunt.

Sounds similar to the Lav Fee (aka Pee Fee) PR stunt MOL layed out some time back.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
babybus
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:31 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
There may not be a regulatory requirement for a toilet (which surprises me!)

I may be wrong but someone could resort to public health laws. I think there is a law that states that any premises offering drinks and foods has to provide toilet facilities (so many toilets per head seated). Hence a cafe in a department store doesn't need one as one is provided in the store but a high street cafe does have to provide one.

Airports and airlines like to pretend they are outside normal laws of the kingdom but they are not.

The trick is to put the toilets at the front of the cabin as ladies prefer not to use it and men take less time in there.

I presume for Ryanair's 738 aircraft the minimum number of toilets is two.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
FoxRomeo
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:45 pm

Slow news day. MOL used this PR stunt at least 3 years ago. Although there's always those who believe it  
 
LGWflyer
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:14 pm

Doesn't matter if there is 1 or 2 toilets... still got to pay for it.  
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
eicvd
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:19 pm

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 13):
Doesn't matter if there is 1 or 2 toilets... still got to pay for it.

Eh, since when did they actually bring in this "pay to use the toilet" idea?  
Quoting FoxRomeo (Reply 12):
Slow news day. MOL used this PR stunt at least 3 years ago. Although there's always those who believe it

  
Its done the job though, been a while since we've had a FR thread here, now we've got 2 on the same subject!
COYBIB
 
Algoz66
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:22 pm

Yet again this company demonstrates contempt for its customers because it knows that millions of people that patronise them just have more interest in spending less than a penny.
 
max999
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:25 pm

Even if Ryanair does not get regulatory approval to increase the number of seats on the 738, they can save $$$ on having to maintain only one toilet on each aircraft. It's cheaper keeping one toilet around than having three.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
amccann
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:50 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 16):
Even if Ryanair does not get regulatory approval to increase the number of seats on the 738, they can save $$$ on having to maintain only one toilet on each aircraft. It's cheaper keeping one toilet around than having three.

On top of that, if the seat increase does not get approved, it is cheaper to remove the toilet reducing aircraft weight... A relatively small amount of weight, but at say ~3 cycles a day that small amount of weight could add up to a large amount of savings.
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. - Ronald Reagan
 
bennett123
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:56 pm

It would mean that you could even increase the pitch.
 
GT4EZY
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:08 pm

For goodness sake guys. We get some wild idea from FR Towers and we run and run with it each and everytime. Does it usually happen? NO.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
kdhurst380
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:07 am

Reading the typical 'shocked and appalled' Daily Mail readers' comments never fail to make me laugh.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:38 am

I wish MOL would quit giving other airlines more ideas that are against the customers.   

I doubt he could ever gain seating capacity by removal of the loos as would most likely Boeing wouldn't do it. Maybe he could get away with this if he were to get Airbus aircraft so as part of a deal they might do a cert deal as to expanding the number of seats. Perhaps this is part of a plan to put Boeing vs. Airbus in any future a/c purchases.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:04 am

Absolute rubbish from a useless source. Won't happen.
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seabosdca
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:07 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 1):
195 seats on the 738? I'm sure that would require additional exits...

  

At least under US rules, 189 is the maximum possible with a single-aisle with the 738's exit configuration. The original 739 would have had room for 195 easily, but was not certified for such.

Just another way for MOL to get his and his airline's names in the paper.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:21 am

Quoting BA777 (Reply 3):
Like the article says, there is no legal requirement to provide a toilet.

Really? Might be legal but try dispatching any passenger airplane in the US with all the lavs inop..Not going to happen.. Even in the cargo world (except one notable cargo carrier) If you inop the only lav fight is limited to 1 and 1/2 hrs and only with special circumstances can it be extended.

[Edited 2011-10-12 19:21:54]

[Edited 2011-10-12 19:22:11]
 
spr773
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:49 am

Reading this one wonders then why have toilets at all. Few more seats can be crammed in that empty space. Also cut costs on having F/As. Once everyone has boarded close the doors. As is F/As in such an airline are helpers in case of evac. Well for that paint instructions inside the plane. Once the pilot has boarded he closes the doors. And thats it. The plane will leave and land and the pilot opens doors. Thats it. Common there are so many ways to cut cost. I am surprised MOL hasn't got these ideas.

Also to save on costs why not have standing options. Those who sit will pay more and those that stand fly cheaper. As long as they are secured while takeoff and landing.
 
kdhurst380
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:09 am

The misconceptions of Ryanair, from people who have clearly never flown with them does nothing short of amaze me.

O'Leary says a lot of things. Ryanairs 737-800 has a standard config of 189 pax at 30" pitch.

That isn't going to change. Especially in the Daily Mail, they'll write whatever it takes the make the uneducated bigots don pitch forks.

[Edited 2011-10-13 03:10:13]
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:33 am

The only time you will ever find me flying Ryanair is if I am dead in a box in the hold. At least the legroom is ample down there... Doubt there are many bags to clog it up  

If you are flying a Ryanair flight from the UK to the Canary Islands at over 4 hours, how can you only offer one toilet? What if a child needs changing... do you stink out the whole plane?

They say one toilet but I have been on flights before where toilets have been out of order for various reasons. This should not be legal.

[Edited 2011-10-13 03:50:29]
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
babybus
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:08 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 28):
The only time you will ever find me flying Ryanair is if I am dead in a box in the hold.

Believe it or not but if your body is being flown to Knock in Ireland your body travels free!  Wow!

I think it's something to do with it being a Holy site.

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 27):
That isn't going to change. Especially in the Daily Mail, they'll write whatever it takes the make the uneducated bigots don pitch forks.

I couldn't have put it better myself. And it's true people always say they won't fly Ryanair when they do. Who can turn down a cheap fare?
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:39 am

Quoting BA777 (Reply 3):
Like the article says, there is no legal requirement to provide a toilet.

You can bet there will be once a legislator finds himself on a flight with no toilet, and nature is calling. And once they legislate you can be sure it will be overkill. It would be best for airlines not to go down this road.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:24 pm

The Dutch railways found a good solution for their "no toilet trains". The Gerard Depardieu bag. Will be available shortly on FR for a fiver, Pound or Euros.



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 28):
The only time you will ever find me flying Ryanair is if I am dead in a box in the hold.

No chance , mate. FR does not carry freight,

Quoting Babybus (Reply 29):
Believe it or not but if your body is being flown to Knock in Ireland your body travels free!

But they charge for the soul, unless you Knock three times.
powered by Eierlikör
 
kdhurst380
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:34 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 28):
The only time you will ever find me flying Ryanair is if I am dead in a box in the hold. At least the legroom is ample down there... Doubt there are many bags to clog it up

The legroom already is ample, 30" to be exact. That's about the same as what BA offer in economy, and better than most charter airlines. I outlined this above, but people conveniently ignore the facts.

Why do people ignore the facts? oh yeah, because it's Ryanair.
 
signol
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:44 pm

They should get in touch with Nederlandse Spoorwegen...
Dutch Rail Plan To Introduce "pee-bags" On Trains (by YokoTsuno Oct 8 2011 in Non Aviation)

signol
Flights booked: NWI-AMS-JNB-DUR, JNB-AMS-NWI
 
coachclass
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:58 pm

The focus of course is on passengers. But the working crew needs toilets too.
 
Mir
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:01 pm

Quoting yxd172 (Reply 6):
What does the intended use of the aircraft have to do with the max seating? Isn't it all for evacuation.

To be fair, if you have that many people desperate to go to the bathroom, that's some extra motivation to get out of the airplane, so the evacuation time might well be the same.   

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 32):
The legroom already is ample, 30" to be exact.

30" is not ample.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
BA777
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:31 pm

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 34):
But the working crew needs toilets too

This is very true!
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:47 pm

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 32):
The legroom already is ample, 30" to be exact. That's about the same as what BA offer in economy, and better than most charter airlines.

There is some disagreement whether the pitch is 29" or 30" (I've never measured). Either way, it's not "ample," it's less than the 31"-32" that most legacy airlines (including BA) provide, and it's similar to narrowbody charter seating (admittedly, widebody charter seating is often narrower and thus even worse).

But the point is that it's already at max certified capacity and getting to 195 is not going to happen unless Boeing builds a new 738 variant with a 739-style aft midcabin door.
 
apodino
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:44 pm

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 24):

Really? Might be legal but try dispatching any passenger airplane in the US with all the lavs inop..Not going to happen.. Even in the cargo world (except one notable cargo carrier) If you inop the only lav fight is limited to 1 and 1/2 hrs and only with special circumstances can it be extended.

That is not true. I dispatch planes all the time in the US with the LAV inop. The MEL doesn't say anything about a limitation on stage length. From a passenger comfort point of view, we try not to dispatch it on long flights, but you can certainly fly it legally on flights over 2 hours, and I have done so.
 
lapper
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:52 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 27):
The only time you will ever find me flying Ryanair is if I am dead in a box in the hold. At least the legroom is ample down there

Not unless you want to go to Knock... http://www.ryanair.com/en/questions/does-ryanair-carry-human-remains
 
hal9213
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:37 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 18):
It would mean that you could even increase the pitch.
Quoting Mir (Reply 34):
30" is not ample.

If I were O Leary and removing the lavs, I would only increase pitch in the 3-4 foremost rows and sell them as "extra legroom premium seats". Thats probably as much revenue as having 6 extra seats.
 
kdhurst380
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RE: Ryanair - Now Just One Toilet On-board?

Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:50 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 34):

That's a matter of opinion.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 36):

I've flown both, even BA long haul economy is only 31".

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