flyboy80
Topic Author
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:18 pm

I'm sure others will have a different opinion based on which operational aspect they are directly connected to, but as a flight attendant I'm really disapointed.

I understand that customes have elected to bring more items with them inside the aircraft as this lowers their travel costs in many situations provided their carrier has baggage fees. However there must be a breaking point somewhere.

The TSA "one plus one" rule seems to be make-believe. It's never enforced by anyone that I can see- Customers are coming on-board aircraft with sometimes three or four items, all of which are clogging the overheads. I personally am more interested in "secure" stowage of items with all the tasks required durring boarding as oppossed to attempting to count everyone's items...

The sheer size of roll-a-board bags has increased as well. There was a time when I considered overhead bins on 737s large, now they are consistenty "not quite big enough." These items pose more risk to crew-members then in the past because customers (I've noticed) are asking more for assitance to place these (sometimes 40 plus lb) bags in the overhead bins, easily capable of causing injury IMO as well as my airline's. ANd more often than not, these items and lack of suitable stowage areas for them (and fuller flights) are lengthening the boarding processes, causing conflict, and dilivering a lower customer experience.

I'm hopeful that there are management teams who visit these forums in an attempt to gain more insight to operational roles and challeges facing customers and employees and that they're able to learn something and is why I've elected to discuss this topic. I also want to know if there is any dialogue in place with the government agencies regarding adequate enforcement of carry-on bag regulations. I still cannot understand why they can x-ray your bag and check for liquids but they can't lower their work load and restrict items through the check-point. (I see pax take sometimes two bags, and two personal items through the check-point)

My last gripe here is something I call "implanting conflict" which I believe exists heavily in airline customer service. The airline makes a decision to increase revenue; the result is the aforementioned; and crew members, and in my case on-board crew members, being placed into direct conflict with customers in order to enforce carry-on regulations. You now have pissed off customers- and with everything else they have to deal with- it's one step towards a complaint against in some cases an undeserving individual, or the airline itself. And believe me I understand the customers frustrations with travel. Just look at the whole JetBlue thing that took place (while quite out of hand) it should serve as an example of the world we live in today with air travel!
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 2825
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:31 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Thread starter):
I also want to know if there is any dialogue in place with the government agencies regarding adequate enforcement of carry-on bag regulations.

There is currently a working group consisting of MANY airlines, and the TSA, to work towards standard carry-on baggage sizing in the USA. Problem is you have "rogue" carriers dissenting and refusing to work towards a consensus.

I would expect some regulations to be rolled out in the next 24 months, but probably not much sooner given all of the parties involved. I'm also not sure whether this would affect the number of carry-ons, more the size of each item.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:31 pm

We've tackled this topic before, and while not much can be done about number of carryon items, things can and should be done about the allowable size of carryons.

It's simply not enforced right now as a sizable portion of passengers now completely bypass the ticket counter and thus bypass any sort of bag size enforcement.

Airlines won't do it at the gate, as this would mean a customer service meltdown, sending pax back through security, adding fees etc. That's not to say the airlines would be in the wrong, in my opinion if passengers feel the right to ignore the numerous sources of bag size limitation information, then they deserve a hard lesson.

No airline is ballsy enough to open that can of worms first. One would think the most efficient spot to put a handcuff on oversize carryons is at the security checkpoint itself since the counter is now a non-factor.
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:36 pm

I agree with you that the problem of carry-ons has got out of control. If you are one of the last 50 pax to board it is sometimes impossible to find a space for your own bag.

However, I would say that airlines actually encourage you to take bags on board; through fees and long inexplicable delays to receiving bags in the baggage hall. As turnaround times reduce having bags in the hold is a liability to the airline.

If airports lifted the liquid onboard rules no one would check-in their bags at all.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
flyboy80
Topic Author
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:39 pm

I agree that the security checkpoint should be used as the stopping point.

IF they choose to ignore everything else, including a mandated message applied to all airline booking receipts, and online check-ins, wait all that time in line, then have to return to the ticket counter (where agents are not working on a door deadline) then so be it- do not make this problem Gate Agent, and Flight Attendant responsibility it's simply not accountable to employees or customers. Working out such a system within the U.S. is so greatly needed.
 
petera380
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:39 pm

The problem is that US carriers don't enforce their own rules. In the US it's one bag plus a personel item. This grows to two huge items that would never fit into the size wise guage that is often sitting by the check in desk. In Europe it's one bag and no more! But with airlines charging to check bags in it can't be a supprise when people bring half a house onto the plane!
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:44 pm

It's gotten to the point that I'd rather pay the checked bag fees so I don't have to fight for overhead bin space, and what I do bring onboard with me can easily be placed under my seat. If there is room in the overhead bin once everyone has stowed their bags, I will put my personal bag in the overhead bin.

While some airlines do have a/c with overhead bins designed to handle rolling carry-on bags, many airlines still have older interiors in their a/c that are not ideally designed for such bags, since these bags only started to become commonplace in the last decade or so.

In some respects, I think Spirit has the right idea with the carry-on bag fee.

I've been on flights that were delayed 10-20 minutes because of folks still trying to stow their carry-on bags and having to move stuff around in order to fit. I've seen folks trying to stuff a 21' roller bag into the middle bin on a Delta 767-300 Domestic a/c and the F/As having to make multiple announcements that such bags will not fit in the middle bins.

Part of the problem is that people overpack for trips, and I'm sure we've all been guilty of this at one point or another. Some folks then try to shoehorn a roller bag that is bursting at the seams into an overhead bin not designed to fit it.
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:44 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 2):
Airlines won't do it at the gate, as this would mean a customer service meltdown, sending pax back through security, adding fees etc. That's not to say the airlines would be in the wrong, in my opinion if passengers feel the right to ignore the numerous sources of bag size limitation information, then they deserve a hard lesson.

I totally agree. The pax do it now because they can. If they had to go back through security and check it in, they wouldn't do it again.

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 1):
There is currently a working group consisting of MANY airlines, and the TSA, to work towards standard carry-on baggage sizing in the USA. Problem is you have "rogue" carriers dissenting and refusing to work towards a consensus.

I would expect some regulations to be rolled out in the next 24 months, but probably not much sooner given all of the parties involved. I'm also not sure whether this would affect the number of carry-ons, more the size of each item.

I don't quite understand this!
Every airline already has a policy - the only problem is that it's not being enforced by them. I can't see a new policy ever being less than a standard roll-aboard, plus a small hand carried item.

We don't need new policies that pax are still going to ignore ... probably even more so since it would be more restrictive ... we just need the airlines to enforce the current ones.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
rojo
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:47 pm

Weird... everybody trashed NK when they added fees to carry-on bags. Now you step into an NK flight and half of the overhead bins are empty. People will always try to trick the system, so NK decided to tackle both problems and get more ancillary revenue. Problem solved.

Legacy airlines should have thought about carry on bags going out of control when they decided to start charging to check in bags. They didn't do it and now they have to people bringing 3 or more items to the plane.
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6504
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:48 pm

While I can empathize with your frustration, the whole carry-on issue can be summed up in 2 words: unintended consequences.

Airlines (more specifically, Airline Management) imposed and in some instances increased checked bag fees even for ALL pieces of luggage to make up for some 'lost' revenue; customers retaliatde as they saw fit.

While NK (not 100% sure about G4) responded to this situation a while ago by imposing a fee for the overhead bin use; other carriers have been reluctant to impose such a fee figuring that it would create even a greater customer backlash to a point that it could force the government to intervene even further. Such action could make the cure worse than the disease.

As we all know, only B6 and WN do NOT charge for the FIRST checked bags (WN allows a 2nd checked bag fro free as well) for domestic travel. However, those 2 carriers don't serve the same number of airports that their legacy competitors (& regional partners) do AND, in some instances charge a fare high enough to surpass what a legacy would charge plus a first checked baggage fee (I found that out this past summer). As a result; the checked baggage fees, even for the first bag, appear here to stay.

Those are my   
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
NathanH
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:40 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:50 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 6):
It's gotten to the point that I'd rather pay the checked bag fees so I don't have to fight for overhead bin space, and what I do bring onboard with me can easily be placed under my seat. If there is room in the overhead bin once everyone has stowed their bags, I will put my personal bag in the overhead bin.

I've become the same way. It is worth the money to me to not have to deal with the stress of fighting the mass of people trying to get on the plane as early as possible to make sure there is overhead space. I'll bring a backpack with my laptop and some foods and various other things to get me through the flight, and check the rest.
 
airbazar
Posts: 6948
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:53 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Thread starter):
I'm sure others will have a different opinion based on which operational aspect they are directly connected to, but as a flight attendant I'm really disapointed.

Wait a second. You're a flight attendant and you're complaining about carry ons out of control? It's YOU JOB to enforce the carry on rules. If people are bringing more than what they are alowed it's because YOU are NOT doing your job.
Bu I agree, it's ridiculous but the airlines (YOU EMPLOYER), encourages this by charging for checked baggage because it saves them money, and you're an accomplice by allowing passengers to carry onboard more than what they are allowed.
On my last flight, I would bet my salary that half the carryons would not fit in the the little sizing contraption, some were blatantly obvious and yet, not a single flight attendant asked the passengers to check their bags.
 
ScottB
Posts: 5456
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:57 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 4):
I agree that the security checkpoint should be used as the stopping point.

I disagree. The job of the TSA is to screen passengers and their bags for items which would threaten air transportation security, not to act as the bag-size police because gate agents and flight attendants don't want to have to confront passengers who are already unhappy with their employers' policies. If an airline wants to force its own passengers through another baggage-size check prior to security -- and pay for that -- then fine.

The size of the bag is not necessarily indicative of its weight or how hazardous it might be if it were to fall from a bin. Nor does it correspond to the amount of attention a security screener ought to devote to it; a "personal item" filled with computer accessories (after the laptop has been removed) almost certainly deserves closer scrutiny than a rollaboard filled with clothing.

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 1):
Problem is you have "rogue" carriers dissenting and refusing to work towards a consensus.

What you call "rogue" carriers others might call carriers who are more sensitive to the wishes of their customers.

Quoting flyboy80 (Thread starter):
These items pose more risk to crew-members then in the past because customers (I've noticed) are asking more for assitance to place these (sometimes 40 plus lb) bags in the overhead bins, easily capable of causing injury

You personally need to ask for explicit clarification on your company's policy regarding assisting customers with heavy carryons. If you are expected to do so, then it needs to be very clear that any resulting injury would be covered by your company's workman's compensation plan. If you are not, then you need to diplomatically tell the customer that your company's policies do not permit you to assist with heavy carryons due to the potential for injury and offer to gate-check the bag if the customer is unable to place the bag in the bin him/herself.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:10 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
I disagree. The job of the TSA is to screen passengers and their bags for items which would threaten air transportation security, not to act as the bag-size police because gate agents and flight attendants don't want to have to confront passengers who are already unhappy with their employers' policies. If an airline wants to force its own passengers through another baggage-size check prior to security -- and pay for that -- then fine.

Nobody mentioned the TSA doing it. In fact, at the actual security checkpoint might not be the best place for it either. Any location prior to going through security would be suitable. Since this is mainly a problem tied to kiosk and online check-in, there could simply be a cordoned walkway from kiosks to the security line area manned by one employee. It wouldn't be a lengthy process, a mere glance would suffice, so the inconvenience/delay would be slim to none. It would be the perfect job for someone on limited or light duty.

Hey, just an idea.
 
User avatar
ADent
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:11 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:13 pm

It is the airlines fault.

Either they start carry on fees (like NK) or they stand behind their employees and make sure the rules are enforced. Something like employees get 25% of the bag fees collected at the gate would get the carry on rules enforced.

The bag situation on WN is much better than other airlines (in my experience), but even there is isn't great.



DIA (aka KDEN) tried to put bag sizers on the x-ray machines - like UA and most other carriers supported. But CO did not want this and got them removed - initially on the A concourse screening station, then the main terminal.

Plus the TSA guys didn't really want to get into fights with customers over airline rules (they would rather argue over the size of your toothpaste tube).
 
tp1040
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:30 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:15 pm

This would not be as much of a problem if airlines could guarantee a paid checked bag securely arrive in a timely manner and distributed in an orderly fashion. Alas, you have thieves, slow employees, a handling system that fails to serve (with surprising regularity).

No, I don't want to pay extra for something I can do but the airline can't, I don't want to wait 30 minutes to get my bag, I don't want search for my bag with 200 other bags, I don't want my bag delivered the next day (or the week later), I don't want my bag gone thru by airline employees, I don't want to argue with an idiot over the value of the contents, I don't want my bag to go to Alabama to be sold.

Thank you, I will deal with my bags myself. I have never carried on more than an allowed roller and computer. Never asked anybody for help.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 3947
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:21 pm

How about the majors stop charging for the first bag and find a better way to make their revenue. I used to check my bag every time until the airlines got greedy in this one aspect. That saved a lot of hassle all around - breeze through security, don't need to fight for overhead space, don't need to lug it around the airport. Now I fight for overhead bin space like everyone else.
 
User avatar
malaysia
Posts: 2616
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:26 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:22 pm

The major issue on my side is that too many just throw tiny objects, fanny packs, purses, pouches, which could easily go under the seats. I know people want leg room, but the way people just throw them in the bins, make it falsely appear to be full but it really isnt, and FA just close the bins thus assuming that now all the roller bags need to be gate checked.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
usairways787
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:42 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:36 pm

I agree wholeheartedly. I can tell you, it extremely frustrating as a ramper to sit there and watch people try to carry on the things they do. I initially turn in a load plan with my correct bag count only to have to change it and add 10+ carry ons because some people want to take their house with them. This in turn makes my job, the pilots, job, F/A and everyone else included harder. Ontop of all that you get a captain on the headset all pissed at you because you have to keep changing it haha. It's caused many delays, that I've had to answer for because of it. Something has to give.

US787
"Pre departure walk around complete, all doors closed, ready for pushback"
 
PI4EVER
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 10:29 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:42 pm

"No airline is ballsy enough." Well said HRRamper. That is the crux of the problem. The TSA will not assume responsibility for airline bag rules enforcement, and airlines help create the monster by not enforcing their own rules and policies.
Airlines have created the situation where the passenger can by-pass an employee at the counter area - to be so much more effecient and cost effective - and TSA is simply moving bodies looking for breach of security issues not how many pieces the Farkel Family is traveling with - and a gate agent/s pressured to board and get the plane out on-time and it all comes to a screeching halt in the aisle of the airplane. F/A's can't smile composed and pleasant at the door with a greeting of the masses because they're making repeated "We have a full flight today" and so on announcements trying to get these masses and their stuff stowed to sit down so we can fly.
Did bag fees help create this monster? You betcha. I will not get into any discussion of the pros and cons of WN and B6's policy; however, my airline of choice - DL - earned over a BILLION dollars in anchillary revenue from fees....and it is certainly not from domestic food and beverage charges - yet, it gate checks "complimentary" thousands of bags a day throughout the system due to lack of space on board the aircraft and to minimize a delay in departure. I could not ignore a billion dollars in revenue enhancement, and yet operationally the routine boarding of a DL flight is nothing short of chaos. My compliments to most DL crew who face this dilemma everyday. I have flown 66 segments year-to-date on DL and it is rare you do not encounter many of these issues, repeatedly, every flight, every day, regardless of aircraft, bin type or load factor.
I want to know why a DL agent permitted a woman to board a flight with 4 items, near the end of the process, stand in the aisle looking perplexed because all the bins were full, refused to let her bags be stowed throughout the plane, and was finally threatened by a F/A she would be removed from the flight if they did not stow and check her bags immediately. A gate agent had to come aboard the plane to speak with the woman and handle the bag checking, while this fully loaded 757 sat delayed at the gate awaiting the solution. The woman found little sympathy from her fellow passengers but she complained and was bitchy to the crew throughout the 4 hour flight to ATL. Why did you permit this meltdown at departure time SMF? Not right to all of us already on board, and the F/A crew did not deserve this issue to deal with.
I say someone in SMF was pressured to get the flight out on time and in hustling to do so either did not observe or ignored the obvious as they scanned her boarding pass. You don't want the Station Manager on your ass about a delay.
During the flight she retrieved 2 of her items and placed them at her feet - not under the seat - but at her feet. Seated in exit row 27C and there they remained until we reached the gate in ATL. Violation for exit row seating again either not observed or ignored by crew. Where was I? Right across at 27D so I was witness to all this drama and it was unacceptable. If someone "ballsy" enough had challenged her as a late boarding passenger and handled her bag issues before she ever stepped foot on the plane we would all have been spared the scenario....and the delay.
I travel with 2 items. A rollerboard and a backpack but I understand the Farkel Families and others are traveling under different circumstances and trying to save $$ will push the carry-on rule issue. A family of 4 traveling to MCO do not want to spend $100 each way for baggage, and us frequent flyers are not keen on waiting for a bag after a long week/day and flight. Not to speak of those lessons learned when the bag goes astray.
So the monster grows. Is there really enough space if every person traveled with just one bag and one personal item? On the average DL aircraft, that would be bin space for 100+ rollerboards if every personal item could fit under the seat. Maybe "ballsy" is not the answer but a rationalization of what the aircraft can physically accomodate safely is more the issue beyond a customer service perspective. I don't like having all that stuff over my head anyway, but I'm part of that monster too aren't I?
No easy solution to a very sensitive subject for airline employee and customer alike. My kudo's again to all crew who deal with this stuff everyday.
I'm headed home Friday night so have my bin ready.......
watch what you want. you may get it.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:45 pm

I also place a certan amount of burden on gate agents. Sure there's a 1/1 rule with TSA but pre.screening machines, everyone's putting their things on the rollers then on the belt. At the gate, the agents need to be monitoring that everyone only has one carryon bag plus one personal item. Don't know about other airlines but from what I've seen, they're pretty strict about the one carryon plus a purse/laptop bag, etc.

Now, as the gate checks, it is out of control and it's the airlines' fault. Let's just say everyone only has one rollerboard which is usually the case from what I've seen, there's still not enough room. Look at the MD88. Only the port side can accommodate full size rollaboards wheels or handles out. On the other side they have to be turned to the side which takes up tons more room. Its not uncommon to have 10-15 gate checks on a full Mad Dog.
What gets measured gets done.
 
flyboy80
Topic Author
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:45 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
I disagree. The job of the TSA is to screen passengers and their bags for items which would threaten air transportation security, not to act as the bag-size police because gate agents and flight attendants don't want to have to confront passengers who are already unhappy with their employers' policies. If an airline wants to force its own passengers through another baggage-size check prior to security -- and pay for that -- then fine.

Baggage quanity through the checkpoint has everything to do with security directly and therefore should be monitored directly by the TSA as a first line of control as to the quanity of items which are entering the area WHICH THEY ARE IN CHARGE OF KEEPING SECURE and void of threatening/dangerous/whatever items...
 
GT4EZY
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:35 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:49 pm

It is a nightmare on certain routes but pax don't help themselves or each other. They often throw the bag into the locker whichever way they want and they stow the smallest items up there that could easily fit under the seat with little impact on their comfort. When the bags are stowed effieciently and correctly, this greatly reduces the amount of bags that need offloading and placing in the hold.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
bohica
Posts: 2308
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:56 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 2):
One would think the most efficient spot to put a handcuff on oversize carryons is at the security checkpoint

Back in 2001, UA installed templates on the x-ray machines at IAD to control the size of carryons. If the bag didn't fit, it had to be checked. However, CO was at the time advertising larger overhead bins on their A/C. CO sued UA to have the templates removed claiming the templates took away their advantage. CO won and UA had to remove the templates.
 
eastern747
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:34 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:59 pm

I believe it is not the job of the TSA to control bag sizes and number of items mean, isn't there enough trauma there already.
I was aboard a full flight when the the cooperation between the F/A and ground staff was brilliant. The F/as in the rear announced to the boarding F/A when all overheads were full, and the doors were shut. The flight attendant and gate agent announced, that's it folks, no more over head items. If it doesn't fit under the seat, it's going to be checked. PERIOD.Ramp services was there with a loader right up to the Jetway. The bags were tagged and out the door. Any grief and the passenger was told, in a nice way, either it's tagged or you don't go.Worked out very well. The winter is coming with overcoats, packages, more winter clothes.
The F/A is correct, I don't want somebodies 40lb bag falling on my head in case of emergency. And he is correct too. If you can carry the damn bag from home to the plane, don't expect a F/a to store it for you. (few exceptions of course). Take it to Fed-X and ship it.
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:02 pm

Quoting NathanH (Reply 10):
I've become the same way. It is worth the money to me to not have to deal with the stress of fighting the mass of people trying to get on the plane as early as possible to make sure there is overhead space. I'll bring a backpack with my laptop and some foods and various other things to get me through the flight, and check the rest.

As have I. I'd rather spend 20 more minutes in the lounge, whilst enjoying a cocktail, rather than having to scramble to the gate and play the "everyone crowd the gate door to see who can get on first for the overhead space" game that everyone seems to participate in. Even if I end up paying the bag fee, it's worth not having to stress out about it.

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 22):
They often throw the bag into the locker whichever way they want and they stow the smallest items up there that could easily fit under the seat with little impact on their comfort.

This. Purses and coats are notorius for this. Small personal items should be under the seat in front of you, not up in the bins.
PHX based
 
trigged
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:25 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:07 pm

I usually fly AA on the CSG-DFW-CYS route and back to see family and the carry on bags that won't fit in the bins are given a gate check tag, put underneath, and returned to the passenger at the gate when they arrive. I know this would not be feasible for a full 763 or 777, but 737 sized aircraft shouldn't be too much of a problem if the ticketing agent screens the size a little when at check-in. I did see a guy try to carry on a full-sized roller suitcase on either a FRA-ATL or ATL-LAX flight (forget which). He was trying like mad to get that thing stuffed in the overhead bin (wouldn't fit of course) and finally (since he was holding up others) the FA took the bag and had it checked underneath.
 
tharanga
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:29 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:15 pm

I would welcome the airlines to crack down hard, and enforce their own rules. In fact, I plead for them to do so.

I think it should remain the airline's job to enforce. The gate agent has to do it. Don't bother the people at the security checkpoint with this - sorting out who is a premium passenger and can maybe bring more on board, or who's about to board a B6 E190 and thus has a slightly smaller maximum bag size - let the security screening people do their stated job, and that's it.

It would also help if luggage manufacturers clearly labelled bags that are too big to carry on as such, so shoppers would know what they're buying right at the store. But I don't think the manufacturer has any incentive to do that.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 6):
It's gotten to the point that I'd rather pay the checked bag fees so I don't have to fight for overhead bin space, and what I do bring onboard with me can easily be placed under my seat. If there is room in the overhead bin once everyone has stowed their bags, I will put my personal bag in the overhead bin.

I've been at that point for a long time now. Check the bag in, and then sit back and relax. Avoid the pathetic people crowding around the boarding area, rushing to get in as soon as their section is called. Totally obnoxious - it becomes hard to tell who's in line because they are boarding, and who is just hovering in the way and being a nuisance.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):
Wait a second. You're a flight attendant and you're complaining about carry ons out of control? It's YOU JOB to enforce the carry on rules. If people are bringing more than what they are alowed it's because YOU are NOT doing your job.

I'd say it should be the gate agent's job. By the time the offending passenger is on board, it's really too late; the problem has already been caused.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 2825
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:24 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 7):
I don't quite understand this!
Every airline already has a policy - the only problem is that it's not being enforced by them. I can't see a new policy ever being less than a standard roll-aboard, plus a small hand carried item.

We don't need new policies that pax are still going to ignore ... probably even more so since it would be more restrictive ... we just need the airlines to enforce the current ones.
Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
If an airline wants to force its own passengers through another baggage-size check prior to security -- and pay for that -- then fine.

They would be paying for it. You bet that if the TSA was asked to deal with this, they would get more money to do so. Also, if they just would actually use the baggage sizers that are at EVERY security lane, this would be a non-issue. Most large airports have an Airserv employee or similar checking boarding pass at the entrance to many of the lanes anyways, just have them do it!
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:34 pm

Quoting malaysia (Reply 17):
The major issue on my side is that too many just throw tiny objects, fanny packs, purses, pouches, which could easily go under the seats. I know people want leg room, but the way people just throw them in the bins, make it falsely appear to be full but it really isnt, and FA just close the bins thus assuming that now all the roller bags need to be gate checked.
Quoting 777STL (Reply 25):

This. Purses and coats are notorius for this. Small personal items should be under the seat in front of you, not up in the bins.

This is why I wait until everyone has boarded and stowed their bags before I stow my personal bag in the overhead bin, that way I'm not taking up room that someone who hasn't gotten onboard yet might be able to use. If I am carrying a carry-on bag in addition to a personal item, I keep my personal bag under the seat. If I have a jacket or coat, I'll fold it up and put it on top of my bag in the overhead bin. Since the route I fly the most (ATL-LAS-ATL) has flights with the 767-300 (Domestic) on it, I try to book those flights whenever possible because the middle bins never seem to get filled up completely because the larger roller bags will not fit in them (the smaller ones will, but not as many folks use those and most folks seem to have them.).

I've seen F/As rearrange the overhead bins so that folks can more efficiently stow bags in it because one bin has a spot that can fitt a smaller bag and thus allowing a bigger bag to be put in the other bin. In some ways, it's like a puzzle. Some folks put a bunch of smaller bags into a bin in which a larger bag can fit, when they need to put them in the middle bin (especially true on DL's 763 Domestics) so the side bins can be used for larger bags.

I remember one trip back from Las Vegas, there was a stack of giant long plastic cups (If you've been to Las Vegas, you've seen the absurdly oversized plastic cups filled with booze that people carry around.) sitting in a wheelchair by a gate because the folks on a previous flight were not allowed to bring them on since they won't fit in the overhead bin. On what planet did trying to bring them onboard sound like it was going to happen? Probably the same planet in which buying a 3 foot long plastic cup filled with a frozen cocktail sounded like a great idea. In all honesty, those cups should have never even made it to the gate, as someone should have stopped them either once they got into the terminal (assuming they were having to check any bags or wait in line to use the self-service kiosk) or at the security checkpoint (the TSA folks should stop passengers from carrying any item that is obviously oversized through the checkpoint.).
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 2825
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:47 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 23):
Back in 2001, UA installed templates on the x-ray machines at IAD to control the size of carryons. If the bag didn't fit, it had to be checked. However, CO was at the time advertising larger overhead bins on their A/C. CO sued UA to have the templates removed claiming the templates took away their advantage. CO won and UA had to remove the templates.

Ironically, they are now "both" cooperating on developing the standardized template...
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 3952
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:53 pm

This is self inflicted by airlines. I venture that whatever gains they make from charging for bags, they lose in boarding and turnaround times.

By the time the passengers are loading and they are in the cabin, it's much too far down the line for the flight attendants to have proper control of the situation. Boarding is a rough time for everyone and adding the task of sizing and controlling carryon bags means other tasks will suffer.

That being said, with the current policies, airlines have to be much more upfront with baggage limitations and state in BIG, BOLD LETTERS, what the consequences are for exceeding the limits. These limits have to be specifically pointed out at time of purchase, so when oversized/weight carryon bags have to be checked at the gate, (for a fee), the customer cannot feign surprise.

It's human nature to try get the most for your money so many passengers will test the limits of baggage policy. Until the airlines wise up, expect this trend to continue.
What the...?
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3657
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:05 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 2):
No airline is ballsy enough to open that can of worms first. One would think the most efficient spot to put a handcuff on oversize carryons is at the security checkpoint itself since the counter is now a non-factor.

UA was ballsy enough to put sizers in front of x-ray machines at one of their terminals to enforce a maximum size per item. CO was leasing space in the terminal at the time and had just finished installing larger bins to allow passengers to bring bigger items, so they sued UA. UA lost its balls...

Quoting bond007 (Reply 7):
Every airline already has a policy - the only problem is that it's not being enforced by them. I can't see a new policy ever being less than a standard roll-aboard, plus a small hand carried item.

If it is a standard policy, then you can have standard enforcement, just before the TSA check-point for instance. The problem is that whatever is perfectly reasonable in a 737 may not fit in a CRJ, so do we allow bags that will not fit no matter what, or does the lowest common denominator dictate the size for everyone?
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
User avatar
malaysia
Posts: 2616
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:26 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:06 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 29):
This is why I wait until everyone has boarded and stowed their bags before I stow my personal bag in the overhead bin, that way I'm not taking up room that someone who hasn't gotten onboard yet might be able to use. If I am carrying a carry-on bag in addition to a personal item, I keep my personal bag under the seat. If I have a jacket or coat, I'll fold it up and put it on top of my bag in the overhead bin. Since the route I fly the most (ATL-LAS-ATL) has flights with the 767-300 (Domestic) on it, I try to book those flights whenever possible because the middle bins never seem to get filled up completely because the larger roller bags will not fit in them (the smaller ones will, but not as many folks use those and most folks seem to have them.).

Yeah but its hard if you end up with group C on Southwest or a front row economy group and all the back row people start placing stuff in the front of cabin on way to their seats in the rear so they can simply just easily yank it out up front and I have to end up going to the rear of cabin to place my bags then weave 10-20 seats back up front.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
bennett123
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:12 pm

I always find it peculiar the amount of luggage that people carry.

The limit for Economy here is 15-20 KG in the hold plus 1 bag in the Cabin. The cabin luggage has size limits, for which there are size templates at Check In and Departures. There is little scope for doubt.

My case, (about 16KG) for a second day trip goes in the hold. The cabin Bag, (about 5KG) goes under the seat

Problem solved.

When we get off, I am usually one of the last, (last minute photos) followed by a stroll down to Reclaim. Then a 2-5 min wait and may case appears.

Problem solved.

The only time it took longer, was when someone took my case off the carousel, found it was'nt his, and dumped it on the floor.
 
User avatar
Mortyman
Posts: 4143
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:13 pm

I thought that if you go onto any airlines home webage today or any airline check in counter, you'd be informed about the standard allowed size, weight and number of both carryons and checked in luggage you are allowed to bring ?
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:19 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Thread starter):
I'm sure others will have a different opinion based on which operational aspect they are directly connected to, but as a flight attendant I'm really disapointed.
Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 4):
I agree that the security checkpoint should be used as the stopping point.

Do you have a kid? I worked in the airline industry for several years. The first time I tried to travel with an 8 month old was probably the most humbling experience I've ever had as an airline traveler. You try to travel with a stroller, "Pack and Play" crib, his and all of your clothes for a week trip to see his grandmother. I assure you it will be an eye opening experience. I won't tell you what airline I flew on, but when I did this the CSA that checked us in said "Airline X doesn't think that a portable crib is necessary for travel (and therefore free to check) but I have a kid and it is."

In short, I've worked in the airport/airline industry for over 10 years and no matter what I tried I couldn't carry a coffee, car seat, and stroller down to the plane with a roller bag by myself. We even bought an extra seat for our kid and got harassed because the CSA's thought we were trying to sneak a free seat on board.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 2):
We've tackled this topic before, and while not much can be done about number of carryon items, things can and should be done about the allowable size of carryons.

It's true this topic has been brought up before. 10 or so years ago when I used to fly out of STL the WN checkpoint used to have a sizer built into the x-ray machine. If it didn't fit, you went back and checked the baggage. This would eliminate 100% of the complaints about oversized and multiple carry-on luggage from now on if the airlines started doing this.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:19 pm

Quoting trigged (Reply 26):

The planeside valet program will not work on mainline sized a/c. The average # of pink tags on a full CR9 is usually at the tune of 25 bags and that's only 76 folks. Try 160 on a 738. It's time consuming as it is on an RJ. Turn times will increase by 10-15 minutes easily on a narrowbody. Standard turn in Atlanta is 40mins for a 737 and below. It'll be a nightmare if we brough the planeside valet program to narrowbodies.
What gets measured gets done.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 1791
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:33 pm

Quoting rojo (Reply 8):
Weird... everybody trashed NK when they added fees to carry-on bags. Now you step into an NK flight and half of the overhead bins are empty. People will always try to trick the system, so NK decided to tackle both problems and get more ancillary revenue. Problem solved.

And that's because of....

Quoting rojo (Reply 8):
Legacy airlines should have thought about carry on bags going out of control when they decided to start charging to check in bags. They didn't do it and now they have to people bringing 3 or more items to the plane.

The airlines created this monster by their bag charges. As frustrating as it has been to have experienced delays due to pax loading bags into the overhead bin, I still have ZERO sympathy for the airlines. Honestly? Of the 100+ flights I've taken on WN since the bag fees started at the legacies, I have seen exactly ONE flight delayed due to pax still loading bags into the overheads.
 
shufflemoomin
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:04 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:33 pm

I agree. I've seen some ridiculous items taken on board. If you look at the size of an overhead bin and the amount of seats that bin covers, it's obvious that there's not enough room if everyone brings a case on board. I've seen people take on full roller cases that don't fit in the bin, so have to put in sideways. I'm by the rule that if you can't comfortably carry it and have to use the wheels, it's not carry on. Besides, I've flown hundreds of times in my life and I've never been in such a rush that I can't wait around at the other end for my baggage. You stretch your legs, take a stroll to the bathroom and by the time you're done, you grab your luggage and head off. If cost is the issue and you're going through that hassle to save a few bucks, maybe travelling isn't a good idea?
 
planesailing
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:57 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:27 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Thread starter):
The sheer size of roll-a-board bags has increased as well. There was a time when I considered overhead bins on 737s large, now they are consistenty "not quite big enough."

I flew a BA A319 last year and inside the overhead bin, a little plaque detailed that the maximum weight the bin could hold is 32kg. However, those bins can hold 3 case, each of which could very well hold 12-15kg, so if they bin is only certified to hold such a weight, why is it passed off without thought that the bin is loaded to passed it's weight capacity? You certainly do not overload the aircraft without a care in the world.

Quoting flyboy80 (Thread starter):
These items pose more risk to crew-members then in the past because customers (I've noticed) are asking more for assitance to place these (sometimes 40 plus lb) bags in the overhead bins, easily capable of causing injury IMO as well as my airline's.

As a check-in agent, we have always been told that if the passenger can not deal with their bag, not to assist them. They have chosen to travel with such a weight and have to therefore travel with an appropriate bag. This should be the case on board too.

Quoting flyboy80 (Thread starter):
ANd more often than not, these items and lack of suitable stowage areas for them (and fuller flights) are lengthening the boarding processes, causing conflict, and dilivering a lower customer experience.

I was shocked when I travelled with DL in May on a domestic flight. I have never seen an aircraft so full of cabin baggage, it was rediculous and the flight was delayed whilst people were still standing, shoving this enourmous and over packed bags into the overhead bins.

Quoting flyboy80 (Thread starter):
I'm hopeful that there are management teams who visit these forums in an attempt to gain more insight to operational roles and challeges facing customers and employees and that they're able to learn something and is why I've elected to discuss this topic.

I seriously doubt it. Even if they do, they have commercial pressures which over-ride such comments that are posted here. The airlines did not dissect the fees so that a baggage fee is an extra revenue stream. Low cost carriers invented this build your own ticket so that they could publicise lower headline fares in order to gain competitive advantage over the legacies. By erradicating the "cost" of hold luggage, such as business people, were not paying for a checked bag that they were not using. It was used to win business. Because the LCC's did it, the legacies followed in an effort to ensure that the competitive advantage, and their passengers were not lost. However, those that were using the checked bags, have not necessarily purchased them but are travelling now with cabin baggage.

Quoting flyboy80 (Thread starter):
I still cannot understand why they can x-ray your bag and check for liquids but they can't lower their work load and restrict items through the check-point. (I see pax take sometimes two bags, and two personal items through the check-point)

This was at one point meant to be the case in UK airports, that only one hand baggage item was allowed through. But then, the staffing numbers are not there to monitor who puts what on the x-ray belt.

Quoting flyboy80 (Thread starter):
My last gripe here is something I call "implanting conflict" which I believe exists heavily in airline customer service. The airline makes a decision to increase revenue; the result is the aforementioned; and crew members, and in my case on-board crew members, being placed into direct conflict with customers in order to enforce carry-on regulations.

The problem is that in this day and age, a number of people do a) not like being told that they are wrong and b) decided to just ignore the rules. They agreed to the terms and conditions when booking the ticket but I cannot tell you the number of people who argue with me about hand luggage and hold luggage weights. It is there in black and white when I tell them hand luggage is 5kg, they say "show me where" and I clearly point it out, right by where their name and flight number/time is listed. Funny how they turn up to the airport for the right flight but "claim" they were told hand luggage is 10kg. It is the same disdain that people show towards Police officers when they are stopped speeding.

Quoting flyboy80 (Thread starter):
You now have pissed off customers- and with everything else they have to deal with- it's one step towards a complaint against in some cases an undeserving individual, or the airline itself.

A good customer service department should politely remind the passenger that the terms and conditions of the ticket should be adhered to and that members of staff have the right to enforce such wording.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 2):
Airlines won't do it at the gate, as this would mean a customer service meltdown, sending pax back through security, adding fees etc.

Simple answer, depending on the airline is a PDQ and a scale/sizer. Then anything that is overweight or the wrong size can be charged for and put into the hold. Easyjet do this at their gates. The problem is when none of this is at the gate, but cabin crews write back in their crew reports that the size and weight of hand luggage is more than it should be. How do they become the experts in such thing? Plus, passengers can by a b and c of what they like in duty free after the bags weight has been checked at check-in.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 2):
That's not to say the airlines would be in the wrong, in my opinion if passengers feel the right to ignore the numerous sources of bag size limitation information, then they deserve a hard lesson.

As before, the e-tickets/coupons I deal with all have such information clearly labelled. However, many people chose to ignore the numbers and requirments. You even have people not being able to distingish between lbs and kg on their scales and then blaming the check-in agent when the bag is double their allowance. If they cannot manage that, maybe they should not be going to a foreign country using a foreign currency and language!

Quoting Babybus (Reply 3):
I agree with you that the problem of carry-ons has got out of control. If you are one of the last 50 pax to board it is sometimes impossible to find a space for your own bag.

I cannot comprehend why some people want to drag so much round the airport with them. Now that one airline (Easyjet) has set the trend in the UK, the passengers all thing the other airlines are exactly the same.

In addition, the airline I represent has a 15kg hold 5kg hand policy on basic allowances. I regularly allow passengers to check-in 18kg hold and 2kg hand, however, official policy and we have been reminded when excess revenue is down, is that it is 15kg and no more. Now, I believe the early or on-time departure is more important and I would sooner be on an aircraft where everyones hand luggage is 2kg rather than the allowable 5kg. Afterall, the weight is all travelling on the same aircraft and once a bag is being checked in, no additional fees are incurred by the airline for the weight it is as it goes down the belt system. But no, they want us to infuriate passengers by asking them to move 3kg!

Quoting petera380 (Reply 5):
The problem is that US carriers don't enforce their own rules.
Quoting bond007 (Reply 7):
We don't need new policies that pax are still going to ignore ... probably even more so since it would be more restrictive ... we just need the airlines to enforce the current ones.

As before, the staff who represent the airline, get untold abuse from the passengers for upholding these rules, all because the passenger is in the wrong and does not like it. That is an issue for society as this mentatlity of blaming someone else and not being responsible for your errors has developed like a rash over recent times.

Quoting petera380 (Reply 5):
In Europe it's one bag and no more!

It is with my airline, but the passengers are always bewildered when I say ONE bag. They look at me like i've grown another head. Also, why should women be allowed one bag and a hand bag, when any bag a man carrys is classed as the one bag.

Quoting rojo (Reply 8):
Weird... everybody trashed NK when they added fees to carry-on bags. Now you step into an NK flight and half of the overhead bins are empty. People will always try to trick the system, so NK decided to tackle both problems and get more ancillary revenue. Problem solved.

Seems a good plan. If you plan on breaking down the airfare into each part, then you might as well charge for each and everything. I know NK get their own fair share of bad press, but all they are essentially doing is what was done before when you paid a lot more, but everything was included in that price. At least now, consumers get a "choice."

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 9):
Airlines (more specifically, Airline Management) imposed and in some instances increased checked bag fees even for ALL pieces of luggage to make up for some 'lost' revenue; customers retaliatde as they saw fit.

It is not a concious retaliation. It is a mentality that everyone wants something for nothing. A bit like the extra legroom seats. Some people thing they have a divine right to get more space than everyone else and not pay for the difference. People do not want to pay the checked bag fee as they see it as having to pay more for something when they are already paying for the air fare. But then, if you are Mr A with no bag, why should you automatically pay for a bag to be checked in, when you are not travelling with one, but Mr B is and not paying any more than you.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):
Wait a second. You're a flight attendant and you're complaining about carry ons out of control? It's YOU JOB to enforce the carry on rules. If people are bringing more than what they are alowed it's because YOU are NOT doing your job.
Bu I agree, it's ridiculous but the airlines (YOU EMPLOYER), encourages this by charging for checked baggage because it saves them money, and you're an accomplice by allowing passengers to carry onboard more than what they are allowed.

The problem is, how do you then attribute the delay, which impacts the guilty party. As a cabin crew member, you are only going on "gut" instinct that the bag is overweight or oversized. It is easier to just accept it than pull the bag off, get it weighed and sized only to find it is at the limit on both. Then if the aircraft departs late because of all this faffing, it is the crews delay. Turning a blind eye is the easy way out.

How does it save the airline money? With all my experience I have never been able to answer this, so maybe someone can help me out. The airline now has an unknown amount of weight entering the cabin which costs fuel to transport and inccurs delay fines when it causes delayed departures. However, from my knowledge of LGW, the airport does not charge each airline for the checked bags, just the number of passengers. Maybe someone has better knowledge?

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
The size of the bag is not necessarily indicative of its weight or how hazardous it might be if it were to fall from a bin.

I was always told to weigh hand luggage as when you look at it, you do not know what is in it. The example was always that it could be that the passenger is a weight lifter and the bag has gold bars in it! This came true to me one day when this little girl in a school party was checking in. She had a biggish hand bag over her shoulder and for some reason I got her to weigh it and low and behold this little girl had 15kg on her shoulder. The limit is 5kg and I was shocked she could hold up so much. She had to check it but I was nice and didn't charge her!

Quoting ADent (Reply 14):
Something like employees get 25% of the bag fees collected at the gate would get the carry on rules enforced.

Some airlines do this, they give back a percentage of the revenue generated by excess baggage and premium upgrades. However, it is uncommon for third party ground handling agents.

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 15):
No, I don't want to pay extra for something I can do but the airline can't, I don't want to wait 30 minutes to get my bag, I don't want search for my bag with 200 other bags, I don't want my bag delivered the next day (or the week later), I don't want my bag gone thru by airline employees, I don't want to argue with an idiot over the value of the contents, I don't want my bag to go to Alabama to be sold.

One answer to this could be for airlines to accept hold bags at the gate without penalty. That way passengers know that the bag is going straight into the hold and then it will only be the matter of unloading it on arrival. As it goes into the hold last, it should be out on the reclaim first. The bags go missing and can get rifled through from check-in to loading, very rarely does that sort of thing happen on arrival.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 16):
I used to check my bag every time until the airlines got greedy in this one aspect.

Not greedy. Before, it was just included in the fare. You are now paying to carry x kg, which cost y £/$ etc to transport. Mr Z next to you is checking in 0 so it costs £/$ 0 to transport. Now Mr Z is paying for what he is using.

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 19):
Airlines have created the situation where the passenger can by-pass an employee at the counter area - to be so much more effecient and cost effective

This is my arguement that web check in and CUSS check in are not actually the way forward. These tools allow you to avoid having your travel documents checked for damage, that you are who you are and your baggage is correct until you are at the gate when it is extremely time pressured to board the aircraft on time. Continuing this demand for lowering costs, there are also not enough gate staff to deal with issues such as these come boarding. This is when delays occur for the sake of a small amount that the airport charges for each passenger depending on their method of check-in. Additionally, non perforated A4 sheets of paper are not functional as boarding cards!

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 20):
At the gate, the agents need to be monitoring that everyone only has one carryon bag plus one personal item.

Whilst also ensuring that the passenger is actually a passenger of the airline, that they are on the right flight to the right destination, that they are who they say they are, their documents are suitable for travel. Then throw in upset passengers, seating issues, nervous passengers, boarding announcements, LMC's, crew paperwork, loadsheets and gate messages. You can now see why hand luggage size bears little importance.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 27):
It would also help if luggage manufacturers clearly labelled bags that are too big to carry on as such, so shoppers would know what they're buying right at the store.

My mother works for a suitcase company. She is bewildered by the number of people who come in to buy a brand new cabin suitcase for £50+ because they want to avoid the £20 fee to check in a suitcase with Easyjet, just because of the one flight. Where is the logic in that!?
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 1811
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:35 pm

Quoting malaysia (Reply 17):
The major issue on my side is that too many just throw tiny objects, fanny packs, purses, pouches, which could easily go under the seats. I know people want leg room, but the way people just throw them in the bins, make it falsely appear to be full but it really isnt, and FA just close the bins thus assuming that now all the roller bags need to be gate checked.

That is my largest issue as well. I stick to the 1+1 rule, and so my backpack always goes under the seat in front of me, even on a SF3 or CRJ. My legs don't like it, but it's what I will live with in order to carry on my two large items and not be selfish. I see so many other early boarders get on an immediately stuff the overheads with every little item they have. Not only do they not want to lose any of their legroom, but it takes space away from the only area that can hold the 20-22" rollers, compounding the problem. The end result is gate checks for people that did nothing to deserve it and a delayed flight. Frustrating.
 
citationjet
Posts: 2259
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:43 pm

The airlines created this mess by instituting bag fees. They have the power to solve it. The problem is they don't want to give up the added revenue. In the mean time the passengers and cabin crew members suffer.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:51 pm

Quoting planesailing (Reply 40):
The problem is that in this day and age, a number of people do a) not like being told that they are wrong and b) decided to just ignore the rules. They agreed to the terms and conditions when booking the ticket but I cannot tell you the number of people who argue with me about hand luggage and hold luggage weights. It is there in black and white when I tell them hand luggage is 5kg, they say "show me where" and I clearly point it out, right by where their name and flight number/time is listed. Funny how they turn up to the airport for the right flight but "claim" they were told hand luggage is 10kg. It is the same disdain that people show towards Police officers when they are stopped speeding.

Some folks seem to have a sense of entitlement because they bought a ticket that they don't have to follow the rules. Unfortunately, the average person does not read the terms and conditions on anything, and they would probably never even read the Contract of Carriage. They may see the checked bag fee and decide to carry on a bag and fail to read the carry-on bag regulations. Then when they get told that their bag is too big to fit in the overhead bin and has to be checked, they get snippy. I've seen passengers try to stuff an obviously overstuffed bag into five different overhead bins before being told they would have to check it.

Quoting planesailing (Reply 40):
One answer to this could be for airlines to accept hold bags at the gate without penalty. That way passengers know that the bag is going straight into the hold and then it will only be the matter of unloading it on arrival. As it goes into the hold last, it should be out on the reclaim first. The bags go missing and can get rifled through from check-in to loading, very rarely does that sort of thing happen on arrival.

Most airlines already do that in a way, as there is no system in place at most airlines to charge a passenger a checked bag fee if they have to gate check a bag. In addition, some passengers end up being forced to check a bag (one that is within the size guidelines) because the bins are full.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7487
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:59 pm

Rip out the overhead bins completely, or go back to the old open coat rack style from the past. Anything going onboard the aircraft should fit under the seat in front of you. I have flown a fair bit around the world and know that anything that goes in the overhead stays in the overhead and doesn't even get used in flight. My camera/laptop bag fits under the seat in front of me, that's all I take onboard.. If I want to use it, I can haul it out without disturbing people.

I have to say that the best time in aviation was when flights after the shoe bomber was caught, when nothing was allowed on the plane, then after about 2 weeks all that was permissible was a small clear plastic bag. OTP improved everywhere hugely, no delays passengers getting to gates, no delays getting caught at security, and no slow boarding due people taking unnecessary crap and blocking the aisle up.
While this was extreme, I think if there were no overhead lockers in their current form then people would reduce the size of their carryon because it would have a direct impact on their legroom.

A large item taken at the gate should be left behind that particular flight to teach them that not only will it cost more in the long run, but it is also inconvenient, and once delivered, BTU departments should charge the passenger (more than it would have cost to check the bag in to begin with)before handing the item over.

It comes down to people not knowing how to pack correctly and bringing too much with them. The average person does not need 23kg AND another 15kg hand luggage for a 3 or 5 day trip - but this is learned the more you travel. When I started travelling I was packing 17-18kg in my checked luggage for a week long trip, now it is unusual to travel with more than 10-12kg for a month long trip. I survived a month away in Asia with 7kg backpack for example.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1700
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:02 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):
Wait a second. You're a flight attendant and you're complaining about carry ons out of control? It's YOU JOB to enforce the carry on rules. If people are bringing more than what they are alowed it's because YOU are NOT doing your job.

I would disagree with this. By the time the extra bags get to the door of the aircraft it is too late. They should be stopped at check-in, security and/or boarding point. If the bags get to the door then it may cause problems having to leave them there, tag them and get a staffer to collect them for the hold (this example assumes jetbridge use)

The aircraft is the 3th or 4th point of inspection, it should be picked up before this point. In attention the check in desks and boarding gates usually have scales and/or size frames. Hard for the cabin crew to weight a bag or measure in a galley.

For example, in LHR T1 there are spiral slides at the boarding gates, the boarding staff confiscate oversize bags, print the tag at the desk, send the pax down the jetway, they can then sent the bags down the chute to the waiting loaders.


I think the wheeled bags are a modern curse, when people had to 'carry' there own bags you kept the weight down. Wheels mean you don't realise (or care about) the weight. The number of times I have seen women (sorry but its my personal experience) who are about 5 ft tall and can barely lift their bag off the floor let alone get it into an overhead locker. (It is callous, but my airline instructs us to assist pax only, NOT to put it up for them. This is in response to the larger number of staff back injuries caused by lifting bags)
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2639
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:06 am

You want this solved? Make the FAA and other regulatory organizations count carry on bags as a separate wieght item like checked bags are. If suddenly airlines have to "pay" for your carry on AND checked, I think its obvious where the would rather have you put your bag. It certainly can be justified on small aircraft where they have some serious payload issues that can lead to safety issues.
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 3952
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:55 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 37):
The planeside valet program will not work on mainline sized a/c. The average # of pink tags on a full CR9 is usually at the tune of 25 bags and that's only 76 folks. Try 160 on a 738. It's time consuming as it is on an RJ. Turn times will increase by 10-15 minutes easily on a narrowbody. Standard turn in Atlanta is 40mins for a 737 and below. It'll be a nightmare if we brough the planeside valet program to narrowbodies.

I've seen it work on wide bodies overseas where you ain't seen baggage until you travel the middle east.

Basically, at the gate, the agent checks the bag for size and flags it if is too big or heavy. You take it to the end of the tunnel and a baggage handler picks up the bags there.

Didn't seem to cause any problems or delays and worked very smoothly. Not ideal, but better than having those bags in the cabin.
What the...?
 
The Coachman
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 9:57 pm

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:01 am

This seems to happen rarely in Australia - maybe it is because I tend to fly QF rather than DJ or JQ (who both tend to have some fares for carry-on only and checked bags cost extra if they are found to be oversize). CSA's at check-in in Australia tend to police the rules far more strictly. Everyone knows the rules, if you're oversize, you check the bag and it will cost you (in JQ's case, it can often be the equivalent of twice the cost of the airfare.)

Online check-in is part of this issue because, as previously pointed out, it is possible to go straight to the gate after security without having seen anyone from the airline to determine whether your bag fits within the required parameters.

My main problem with the "too many checked bags" phenomenon is the safety issue. Checked bags are weighed - this is to ensure that the aircraft is not too heavily loaded, sufficient fuel is carried etc etc. With the weight of checked bags known, it is easier to figure out performance, loading etc, COG, trim settings etc. With so many checked bags (most of which are likely overweight) on board and no-one knowing how heavy they are, they pose a safety concern in my view.

Let's do the maths - instead of 7kg, a person carries on 15kg. On a B737-800 that seats 168 pax, say the plane is loaded with 150 pax, say half carry 15kg and the other half carry 10kg, that is an increase in weight of 825kg that the airline knows nothing about - approximately the weight of 12 pax. On a transcon, this could mean the plane may burn more fuel than expected and could result in a diversion. Airlines will likely either compensate by increasing the amount they assume as "per passenger" and thereby perennially overloading the aircraft with fuel and increasing the cost required to carry fuel to burn - let alone the environmental cost of this happening thousands of times around the world daily.

The only time I have had carry-on weighed was on SQ - it turned out my carry-on was about 3kg too heavy (10 instead of 7) and I had to move some items into checked baggage. I didn't have a problem with this - I hadn't had time to weigh the carry on at home.

It's time the airlines enforced carry-on and did it all together. I'm surprised the FAA (or CASA in Australia) haven't done anything about this.

Add to this the fact that if the overhead bins are overloaded, collapse and a 20kg falls on someone's head (which could injure their neck), they'd end up with the negative publicity and subsequent lawsuit. They couldn't join Boeing/Airbus/Embraer/manufacturer of the overhead compartment to the suit - it's clearly marked what the weight limit is, if it is breached, the defence would be that airlines were warned.

Just waiting for a day for this to happen. Sadly, it's probably going to take something like that before the airlines get serious about the problem of overhead compartments and carry-on luggage.
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
ridgid727
Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:58 am

RE: Carry On Bags Out Of Control

Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:04 am

It could all be handled quite simply by getting 1 bag through the TSA for free, the next costs $25.00 for security and the 3rd $50 and the 4th $100.00-- collectible by credit card only at the TSA check point prior to the security happening.