WDBRR
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EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:03 am

Just flew out of EWR on Southwest,
noticed that UA still uses gates 16 and 17.
gate 18 is a common shared (CUTE) gate.
gates 10, 14 and 15 are used by Southwest.
gates 11 and 12 are Air Canada, no gate 13.
Does anyone know what is going to happen
to gates 16 and 17 once the merger is completed?
I noticed Jetblue has 2 gates in the A2 concourse,
all the rest are CO/UA gates over there.
are they going to move Jetblue to 16 and 17?
 
N62NA
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:18 am

Since AA and JetBlue have some kind of agreement now (codesharing?) it might make sense to move JetBlue to A-3 to use some of those empty AA gates that are no longer used due to the drastic cutback in AA's service to EWR.
 
mcdu
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:42 am

Gate 17 is the gate flight 93 departed from. It has significant UA history and I believe I read that UA was committed to keeping that gate under UA control.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:09 am

I'm very interested in this too. Would it make sense to spilt post-merger United operations over Terminal C, Terminal A1 and A2? Does that shuttle bus from Gate C71 stop at Gates A16/A17 as well?

Quoting mcdu (Reply 2):
Gate 17 is the gate flight 93 departed from. It has significant UA history and I believe I read that UA was committed to keeping that gate under UA control.

Do they still have the flag over the jetway?
 
N1120A
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:01 am

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 3):

I'm very interested in this too. Would it make sense to spilt post-merger United operations over Terminal C, Terminal A1 and A2? Does that shuttle bus from Gate C71 stop at Gates A16/A17 as well?

1) PMCO has/had operations at A anyway.

2) Both airlines have lounges in A, and the better one is the PMUA lounge, which is huge.
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:28 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
PMCO has/had operations at A anyway.

Yes but in Concourse A2. United has always been in A1 and don't you have to go through security to access each concourse?

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 3):
Does that shuttle bus from Gate C71 stop at Gates A16/A17 as well?

Just found out the shuttle does stop at A16/A17 without the need to reclear security as well as the A2 concourse.
 
ordbosewr
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:04 pm

Quoting WDBRR (Thread starter):
Does anyone know what is going to happen
to gates 16 and 17 once the merger is completed?

The merger has been completed. I am guessing you mean SOC and cross-fleeting is started.

It will be interesting to see what the new UA does. I am guessing you will see those gates turn into express gates and then they will move all of mainline to C.
 
tommy767
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:58 pm

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 6):
It will be interesting to see what the new UA does. I am guessing you will see those gates turn into express gates and then they will move all of mainline to C.

It's so odd to have 2 UA gates in A-1 where the rest of the ops are in A-2 and obviously terminal C. Maybe Southwest can make use of them.
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United1
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:46 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 7):
Maybe Southwest can make use of them.

Doubtful WN has 3 gates already and as EWR is slot limited they have plenty of room to run their 18 departures a day.

Converting the gates to UAX (or swapping with B6) is more likely.
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STT757
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:12 pm

The best scenario, outside of having all their flights operate from Terminal C, would be if UA could get DL to agree to a gate swap. DL moves to Terminal A and UA uses the B-1 concourse for UAX flights. This would bring the UAX flights that much closer to Terminal C, plus many of UA's International flights are already utilizing Terminal B for arrivals. This would be an easy connection for passengers from those flights to UAX. It would also allow UA to better coordinate lounges, ticketing, ground handling etc. with the Star carriers in Terminal B.

Over the years CO has talked with the Port Authority about building a walkway between Terminal B and Terminal C, similar to the connector between T2 and T3 at JFK. This would help during Airtrain outages which are far too frequent.
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tommy767
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:22 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
The best scenario, outside of having all their flights operate from Terminal C, would be if UA could get DL to agree to a gate swap. DL moves to Terminal A and UA uses the B-1 concourse for UAX flights. This would bring the UAX flights that much closer to Terminal C, plus many of UA's International flights are already utilizing Terminal B for arrivals. This would be an easy connection for passengers from those flights to UAX. It would also allow UA to better coordinate lounges, ticketing, ground handling etc. with the Star carriers in Terminal B.

Very doubtful. DL has been in the process of rennovating B-1, including the former NW club plus some other cosmetic projects as well. There would have to be a huge incentive to move. And moving UAX to B because it's "closer" to C is not a solid reason to do so. UA/CO flights arrive in B but do not depart from there. This is because there is too much overflow for int'l arrivals and customs at C.

Realistically, CO should not have any aircraft arriving at B. They have their "global gateway" with their own customs facility for this.
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STT757
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:28 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
UA/CO flights arrive in B but do not depart from there

They used to, CO's London flights used to be jointly operated with VS, they shared ticket counters and the clubroom.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
Realistically, CO should not have any aircraft arriving at B. They have their "global gateway" with their own customs facility for this.

Obviously Terminal C needs another 20 gates, but for now they have to make do with their assets. UAX has several flights from Canada that are not pre-screened and use either the Terminal B or Terminal C FIS. If UAX were to relocate to Terminal B they could operate both the arrivals and departures at those gates.
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PacNWjet
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:43 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 5):
Just found out the shuttle does stop at A16/A17 without the need to reclear security as well as the A2 concourse.

It's not the same shuttle bus that operates from Terminal C. I transferred through EWR just yesterday (October16). Arrived in Terminal C and took the terminal shuttle bus from the transfer point near Gate C71 over to Terminal A2 (the bus arrives at the ground level underneath Gate A20). Passengers headed to Terminal A1 have to go inside the waiting area and then wait for a separate shuttle bus to take them to Terminal A1 from Terminal A2. Apparently there is a common security checkpoint for Terminals A2 and A3, but A1 has its own security checkpoint which necessitates passengers coming on the shuttle bus from Terminal C either to clear security between A2 and A1 or take the shuttle bus from A2 to A1 as I did. Passengers who need to transit from C to A1 or vice-versa would be well-advised not to try and make a tight connection at EWR.
 
tommy767
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:48 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
They used to, CO's London flights used to be jointly operated with VS, they shared ticket counters and the clubroom.

But the fact of the matter is, they don't anymore.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
If UAX were to relocate to Terminal B they could operate both the arrivals and departures at those gates.

That wouldn't really be fair to the other international carriers that use B.
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STT757
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:56 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
That wouldn't really be fair to the other international carriers that use B.

It depends on what time of day.
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codc10
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:53 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
Realistically, CO should not have any aircraft arriving at B. They have their "global gateway" with their own customs facility for this.

They do, and it happens every day. I'm not sure how you reach the conclusion that they "realistically . . . should not" use B. The Terminal C facility is not large enough to accommodate all of CO's international arrivals between 1100 and 1600, so a considerable number of flights use Terminal B. Generally, those inbound aircraft with longer turn times will use B so as to permit shorter turns to use the C-3 gates.

Should CO cancel profitable international flights because it is somehow immoral or unfair to use Terminal B, a public facility?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
They used to

For departures, yes, but as you know, CO frequently handles arriving international flights at B.
 
tommy767
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:04 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 15):
Should CO cancel profitable international flights because it is somehow immoral or unfair to use Terminal B, a public facility?

Well how many arriving CO flights use B on a given day? Is it only a few or have they been using it as a crutch because they have clearly run out of space during peak times? It just seems like poor planning -- building a terminal only 9 years ago that CO has already seemingly outgrown for international arrivals.

I think we're overthinking this A-1 situation. We've already seen the schedule changes come into play and there is going to be slightly less RJ frequency at EWR going forward. They will probably be able to consolidate UAX express ops to A-2, move B6 to be with AA in A-3. And/or make A-3 AA and B6 and move US to A-1 to be next to AC and have some sort of star lounge take the place of the existing RCC. It's weird because A-1 used to be just AC and UA, and now it's bound to be some CUTE gate area for AC and WN.

I think the open gates in A-1 would be a perfect area for Virgin America to set up shop.
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:13 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 3):
Do they still have the flag over the jetway?

Yes, the flags are there at EWR and BOS. AA also keeps flags flying on their gates also from 9/11
 
dalfannyc
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:25 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
The best scenario, outside of having all their flights operate from Terminal C, would be if UA could get DL to agree to a gate swap. DL moves to Terminal A and UA uses the B-1 concourse for UAX flights. This would bring the UAX flights that much closer to Terminal C, plus many of UA's International flights are already utilizing Terminal B for arrivals. This would be an easy connection for passengers from those flights to UAX. It would also allow UA to better coordinate lounges, ticketing, ground handling etc. with the Star carriers in Terminal B.

Aside from the rennovations/upgrades taking place a la Delta in Terminal B, DL also has international service (AMS) and would need to utilize Terminal B for international arrivals. It is also nice and cozy next to AF/AZ. I don't think there is a reasonable inncentive to move them over.   
 
tommy767
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:28 pm

Quoting dalfannyc (Reply 18):
Aside from the rennovations/upgrades taking place a la Delta in Terminal B, DL also has international service (AMS) and would need to utilize Terminal B for international arrivals. It is also nice and cozy next to AF/AZ. I don't think there is a reasonable inncentive to move them over.

That and DL stole AS gate and ground handling from A-1 as well. They now use DL gate 41.

So B-1 is the unofficial skyteam "concourse" with DL, AF, and AZ plus DL partner AS.
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apodino
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:29 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 16):

Well how many arriving CO flights use B on a given day? Is it only a few or have they been using it as a crutch because they have clearly run out of space during peak times? It just seems like poor planning -- building a terminal only 9 years ago that CO has already seemingly outgrown for international arrivals.

  

That is just what I don't get, were they always intending to keep using B for arrivals even with the new facility, or did they grow more than they though they would internationally when they built the facility. Something doesn't seem right here. Maybe a solution might be to have the 100 gates on the middle Pier in C somehow set up to feed into the customs hall. I believe those gates can still handle widebodies. And it can also stay handling domestic flights as well (Much like E in IAH)

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):

Very doubtful. DL has been in the process of rennovating B-1, including the former NW club plus some other cosmetic projects as well. There would have to be a huge incentive to move. And moving UAX to B because it's "closer" to C is not a solid reason to do so. UA/CO flights arrive in B but do not depart from there. This is because there is too much overflow for int'l arrivals and customs at C.

Realistically, CO should not have any aircraft arriving at B. They have their "global gateway" with their own customs facility for this.

The problem right now though is C is landlocked basically and could not be expanded without significant construction, which may require some property taking. Not likely to happen. And even if UA/CO gained gates in C and was able to combine ops there, then the problem you run into is a vacant terminal A, with basically only AC, AA, WN, and B6 left. None of those carriers would have an operation necessitating all those gates, and even if they were to add flights, the airport is already near saturation as it is, so can you say gridlock?

As for DL, I can give you an instant incentive. Since the PA also runs LGA and JFK, give DL some incentives relating to facilites at those airports (Both are going to be updated soon) and then see if DL won't move?
 
codc10
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:32 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 16):

Well how many arriving CO flights use B on a given day? Is it only a few or have they been using it as a crutch because they have clearly run out of space during peak times? It just seems like poor planning -- building a terminal only 9 years ago that CO has already seemingly outgrown for international arrivals.

The FIS facility may have only been open for 9 years, but it was designed and built in the mid to late 1990s. CO constructed as many gates at C-3 as the space could handle, and with CO initially vacating the B terminal, that facility (only opened in 1996) was left well below capacity. Instead of carrying out expensive modifications to fundamentally redesign several gates on the west side of the C-2 concourse, which may well happen eventually, CO simply uses the B terminal for a dozen or so international arrivals at peak times of day. It's not much of an inconvenience for passengers and an effective use of resources at minimal cost.
 
tommy767
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:44 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 20):
As for DL, I can give you an instant incentive. Since the PA also runs LGA and JFK, give DL some incentives relating to facilites at those airports (Both are going to be updated soon) and then see if DL won't move?

I think an incentive at JFK and LGA would be irrelevant, it would have to be EWR centric. DL is already getting a ton of favoritism at LGA with the slot swap deal, and JFK with the new terminal being built for them (as well as demolition of the world port, but that's for another thread.) As Joshua mentioned, DL is cozy with the other skyteam carriers in B-1. There are zero signs that they want to move. They took in AS last year, they opened the brand new security area, they are doing something (not sure what) to the ex-NW club space, refirbished the baggage claim area (looks brand new), various cosmetic improvements (new walkway, marble floors, lighting, benches) as well as adding new restaurants along the corridor in B-1. If the PA wanted to swing DL into moving somewhere, they had a magical opportunity in 2009 when DL and NW were integrating. That ship has sailed.

Yes, we all know DL is a small fry at EWR compared to LGA and JFK, but they seem to hold their own where they are.
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STT757
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:46 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 16):
We've already seen the schedule changes come into play and there is going to be slightly less RJ frequency at EWR going forward.

That was disproven, if you bothered to check the April schedules those temporary reductions are back.

[Edited 2011-10-17 10:51:19]
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tommy767
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:52 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 23):


That was disproven, if you bothered to check the April schedules those temporary reductions are back.

That is way too far in the future to go by -- likely they are dummy schedules. SOC might be achieved by then. If so, expect big changes equipment wise especially at EWR.
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STT757
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:55 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 22):
and JFK with the new terminal being built for them

New terminal ?..

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 22):
DL is cozy with the other skyteam carriers in B-1. There are zero signs that they want to move. They took in AS last year, they opened the brand new security area, they are doing something (not sure what) to the ex-NW club space, refirbished the baggage claim area (looks brand new), various cosmetic improvements (new walkway, marble floors, lighting, benches) as well as adding new restaurants along the corridor in B-1.

None of that work is DL, it's the Port Authority. DL is not contributing anything towards that, so there's no need for compensation.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 22):
If the PA wanted to swing DL into moving somewhere, they had a magical opportunity in 2009 when DL and NW were integrating. That ship has sailed

They were in the same concourse..
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STT757
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:00 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 24):
That is way too far in the future to go by -- likely they are dummy schedules. SOC might be achieved by then. If so, expect big changes equipment wise especially at EWR.

First your quoting a March schedule change to point out a service reduction by UAX, but when I point out those service reductions are reversed the following month you state it's "Too far in the future". Which is it?
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staralliance85
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:10 pm

UA is probably going to move out of A1 when they are fully integrated. That will probably be sometime in 2012. They will have Terminal C and A2 (Express).



i don't think that there is room for Jetblue to move to A3. AA and US both share that space.


DL is staying put at EWR. They are a small fish in the Ocean there compared to United but they are comfortable by having a small prescence. Don't forget DL has the EWR-AMS flight which is probably their most profitable route at EWR.
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STT757
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:27 pm

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 27):
i don't think that there is room for Jetblue to move to A3. AA and US both share that space.



It's quiet in A-3 these days, so much so UAX is using two AA gates on A3.

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 27):
DL is staying put at EWR. They are a small fish in the Ocean there compared to United but they are comfortable by having a small prescence. Don't forget DL has the EWR-AMS flight which is probably their most profitable route at EWR.



Is it that big a difference to instead of towing the aircraft between B2 and B1 to instead tow the aircraft to A3 or A2? Either way the aircraft is being towed for departure someplace other than where it arrived. VS, AA and UA for years arrived at B and departed from A.
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tommy767
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:06 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 28):
It's quiet in A-3 these days, so much so UAX is using two AA gates on A3.

I still can't believe COEX has been using AA gates. It's ridiculous. They can't just consolidate everything into A-2? Imagine traveling between concourses on those busses. It must be a royal pain.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 28):
Is it that big a difference to instead of towing the aircraft between B2 and B1 to instead tow the aircraft to A3 or A2? Either way the aircraft is being towed for departure someplace other than where it arrived. VS, AA and UA for years arrived at B and departed from A.

Still, where is your proof that they want DL out of B-1? There is zero evidence that will happen.
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N62NA
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:09 pm

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 27):
i don't think that there is room for Jetblue to move to A3. AA and US both share that space.

Plenty of room. AA operates practically no flights to/from EWR these days.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 28):
It's quiet in A-3 these days, so much so UAX is using two AA gates on A3.

Wow, that's news to me. Amazing, but not at all surprised.
 
codc10
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:11 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 29):
I still can't believe COEX has been using AA gates. It's ridiculous. They can't just consolidate everything into A-2? Imagine traveling between concourses on those busses. It must be a royal pain.

Is every single thing CO does at EWR some kind of egregious affront to civility?  

I don't believe COEX is using the A-3 gates any longer, unless this is a very recent (since the summer) change.
 
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STT757
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:00 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 29):

Still, where is your proof that they want DL out of B-1? There is zero evidence that will happen.

Please read again:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
The best scenario, outside of having all their flights operate from Terminal C, would be if UA could get DL to agree to a gate swap.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
tommy767
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:07 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 32):
Please read again:

Right....but where is the proof that this is going to be reality? And keeping in mind your plan would be at a complete inconvenience for Delta.

The best case for the least headache would be for UAEX to consolidate in A-2, and give up their two gates in A-1 (UA/CO can suck it up, it's 2 gates) and have A-1 be shared between AC, WN, B6, and Virgin (if they ever get approval.)
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N62NA
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:23 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 33):
Right....but where is the proof that this is going to be reality?

STT757 hasn't given any proof, only expressed an opinion.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 33):
have A-1 be shared between AC, WN, B6, and Virgin

I still think JetBlue should move into A-3 with AA, since they'll (soon?) be "cooperating" with AA. I could even see AA dropping that oddball 738 they fly once a day to LAX and letting JetBlue take over the route one day.
 
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STT757
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:29 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 33):
Right....but where is the proof that this is going to be reality?

It's a theoretical discussion, hence my usage of the words "scenario" , "would" and "could".

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 33):
And keeping in mind your plan would be at a complete inconvenience for Delta.

Wouldn't you call what DL is doing at JFK an inconvenience to the other carriers who use T-4? Forcing them to locate to the smaller, more crowded T-4 East concourse so they (DL) could have a smoother operation.

COEX/UAX handles nearly six million passengers at EWR last year compared to DL's 1.6 million.
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WDBRR
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:27 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 33):
The best case for the least headache would be for UAEX to consolidate in A-2, and give up their two gates in A-1 (UA/CO can suck it up, it's 2 gates) and have A-1 be shared between AC, WN, B6, and Virgin (if they ever get approval.)

I agree.....Jetblue has 2 gates (21 and 22) in A2
all the rest are CO/UA express.
CO/UA has 2 gates in A1 (16 and 17).
So it's an even swap...I am sure they can do it.
Plus Jetblue can use the common gate 18
if it's needed.
 
codc10
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:50 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 33):
Virgin (if they ever get approval.)

Has nothing to do with approval. VX can buy the slots if it wants to launch service.
 
ordbosewr
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RE: EWR UA Gates 16 And 17

Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:34 am

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 36):
I agree.....Jetblue has 2 gates (21 and 22) in A2
all the rest are CO/UA express.
CO/UA has 2 gates in A1 (16 and 17).
So it's an even swap...I am sure they can do it.
Plus Jetblue can use the common gate 18
if it's needed.

This is way to easy for airlines and more importantly way to easy for the port authority.
I do believe that UA 'owns' the A-1 satelite. I believe Southwest and Air Canada all lease the gates from UA.

Let's not forget that I am sure AC would like to stay close to their JV partners, so just looking at it simply as a UA & CO is not how it really is happening.
I am sure that even if UA moved out from A-1 then * would still want the shuttle. (and don't bring up US!)

The ideal scenario for the new UA would be to get AC, UA and CO all into the same C terminal but that is just not gonna happen unless one of the plans for EWR are to happen, which is not funded by the port authority.

The new UA will probably not be dropping too many flights because if they do then the slots can go to someone else, they don't want that to happen.

The process the new UA is moving for airport consolidation really has not proven to be based on what is operationally best. I mean they will have split operations at many airports for the time being. SEA, LHR, EWR and BOS just to name a few.

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